• Buses being reduced left, right and centre.
  
• Councils celebrating money they already had which will recover above questionably.
  
• 3 private bus operators who are as innovate as a typewriter.
  
• 3 public rail operators (Northern Rail, Metro and TPE) who are cancelling trains left right and centre.
  
• No crisis planning, such as buses running into Newcastle today, to just be delayed and no planning.
  
• Buses being cancelled left, right and centre for the best part of 2 year now.
  
• Buses not fit for purpose, in particular Arriva's Solos and the Stagecoach's MAN 200's with no plan to get shot of them with daily breakdowns.
  
• Depot closures from both Arriva and GNE which have both resulted in serious issues which are still a problem at both (Riverside cancellations, Arriva routes being removed altogether).
  
• The same cronies in charge of high positions who have questionable ability, Gannon and Tobyn Hughes in particular - what exactly have these 2 achieved?
  
• Strikes at Stagecoach, very nearly strikes at Arriva and GNE.
  
• Nexus, as usual, wasting money on things like glass windows at Byker which were removed because of vandalism.
  
• Metro extremely unsafe in the evenings, overran by feral kids.
  

(30 Jun 2023, 9:17 pm)Ambassador wrote The answer is investment to a degree but would you give Gannon and Hughes money? Probably not

There’s a lack of experienced and new creative heads and an almost 1970s Civil Service jobs for the boys (and girls) approach to our operators and Nexus. There’s no fresh ideas or impetus. It’s all…1990s post de reg approaches to a very different world.

I don’t have an answer but then neither do those in charge

(30 Jun 2023, 9:43 pm)Storx wrote Aye totally agreed tbh, but like you said I really wouldn't want to give the current lot the money as they'd end up spending it on things like bus stations at Bishop Auckland*, North Shields*, glass windows at Byker; stupid amounts of money refurbishing North Shields Metro station (which was never complete) etc.

I don't really think anyone has a clue, we probably should be looking at our neighbours in Europe or even better Japan who generally get it right though but the government won't do that because Brexit and the EU are always bad.

*I know some with dispute these but they're a waste of money when there's no buses going to them and no real reason for people to go to the place imo. Personally I couldn't care where I wait, infact I'd take a bus 20m from where I want to be at the side of the road than having to walk 1/2 a mile to a bus station at the other side of town; Haymarket for example.

(01 Jul 2023, 8:30 am)BusLoverMum wrote It was the Metro that really let people down, here. In a perfect world they'd have been running extra services on the central lines and accepting bus tickets but in reality, there was a longer list of service cancellations than ever.

I need to visit Newcastle in the next few weeks but I shan't be bothering until it's sorted.

• The reliability, and communication of it, is shockingly bad. The last time I did use it, I needed to catch an early train from Central. I went to the station for 3 Metro's ahead of the one I actually needed. The first two didn't turn up, then there was a Twitter post that trains were having issues leaving the depot. No information on that in the station for people buying tickets, at which point they could have potentially gone to a nearby bus stop and caught a bus. 
  
• The stations and trains are beyond scruffy at this point. Many key stations look like something straight from the Soviet Union, how Monument and Gateshead haven't had a refresh is ridiculous. 
  

• I personally also find the fare system a bit bonkers, and that I can't use my bank card to tap in/tap out is a tad annoying. 
  

(30 Jun 2023, 8:43 pm)Storx wrote I know we all have our jibes about NSA's and paintwork but it's really is the tip of the iceburg lately. It's almost everyone has just given up and this includes Nexus aswell who are out with the usual throwing Stadler under the train again (not that it would do much as none are running).

Almost everything is just broken:

• Buses being reduced left, right and centre.
  
• Councils celebrating money they already had which will recover above questionably.
  
• 3 private bus operators who are as innovate as a typewriter.
  
• 3 public rail operators (Northern Rail, Metro and TPE) who are cancelling trains left right and centre.
  
• No crisis planning, such as buses running into Newcastle today, to just be delayed and no planning.
  
• Buses being cancelled left, right and centre for the best part of 2 year now.
  
• Buses not fit for purpose, in particular Arriva's Solos and the Stagecoach's MAN 200's with no plan to get shot of them with daily breakdowns.
  
• Depot closures from both Arriva and GNE which have both resulted in serious issues which are still a problem at both (Riverside cancellations, Arriva routes being removed altogether).
  
• The same cronies in charge of high positions who have questionable ability, Gannon and Tobyn Hughes in particular - what exactly have these 2 achieved?
  
• Strikes at Stagecoach, very nearly strikes at Arriva and GNE.
  
• Nexus, as usual, wasting money on things like glass windows at Byker which were removed because of vandalism.
  
• Metro extremely unsafe in the evenings, overran by feral kids.
  

We must have the worst public transport in the country for an urban area, you look at places like Edinburgh and Manchester and the problems are nowhere near the issues up here lately and is it just me who has absolutely no hope that it'll change regardless to whether it's franchised or not as both options are as poor as each other because of who are in charge?

It's sad times but public transport is unusable, unless you have a fetish for delays, cancellations and wasting time.

(30 Jun 2023, 9:17 pm)Ambassador wrote The answer is investment to a degree but would you give Gannon and Hughes money? Probably not

There’s a lack of experienced and new creative heads and an almost 1970s Civil Service jobs for the boys (and girls) approach to our operators and Nexus. There’s no fresh ideas or impetus. It’s all…1990s post de reg approaches to a very different world.

I don’t have an answer but then neither do those in charge

(01 Jul 2023, 8:30 am)BusLoverMum wrote To be fair, I don't think anyone was getting into Newcastle easily, yesterday, by any means. It was the Metro that really let people down, here. In a perfect world they'd have been running extra services on the central lines and accepting bus tickets but in reality, there was a longer list of service cancellations than ever.

I need to visit Newcastle in the next few weeks but I shan't be bothering until it's sorted.

(01 Jul 2023, 12:34 pm)mb134 wrote To be honest, the Metro seems like the main issue in general in T&W. 

I live a 2 minute walk away from a Metro station, I should be the target market, but I cannot remember the last time I even thought about using it. 

• The reliability, and communication of it, is shockingly bad. The last time I did use it, I needed to catch an early train from Central. I went to the station for 3 Metro's ahead of the one I actually needed. The first two didn't turn up, then there was a Twitter post that trains were having issues leaving the depot. No information on that in the station for people buying tickets, at which point they could have potentially gone to a nearby bus stop and caught a bus. 
  
• The stations and trains are beyond scruffy at this point. Many key stations look like something straight from the Soviet Union, how Monument and Gateshead haven't had a refresh is ridiculous. 
  

• I personally also find the fare system a bit bonkers, and that I can't use my bank card to tap in/tap out is a tad annoying. 
  

So much public money goes into the Metro, and the people running it don't have a clue. 

On the other hand, I use an hourly bus service to commute to work daily. It's reliable (maybe 2 or 3 times per month it runs 5+ minutes late - even then I can just check a map on my phone and see where it is), cheap, the buses are clean and modern, and relatively quick. I can use the Metro to get into town, but I will use the bus because, again, it is cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient.

(01 Jul 2023, 3:21 pm)Adrian wrote It's really hard to disagree with any of those bullet points, but on bus cuts, I think we need to look at it in comparison with England outside of London as a whole, asking ourselves whether we're any worse off?

The urban area of Tyne and Wear hasn't been as heavily impacted as the unitary authorities that combine to form the LA7 have. By the stark contrast in population densities, it was never going to be either. The system itself has always been broken; a commercial market with an over-reliance on public money to continue running. Cuts have been significant since the introduction of the ENCTS free travel scheme in 2008, then have been further accelerated by the scheme receiving funding cuts from the Coalition Government 2010 onwards. Initially the scheme was fully-funded by central Government grants, but now the vast majority is on local authorities to find money. So generally speaking, if the reimbursement goes up, money for secured services comes down. This isn't unique to the LA7 area.

Out of the rest of your list, and to quote Albert Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. This is the biggest problem that we have here, and there never seems to be any desire coming forward to do something differently.

I'd say the three things that are most likely to be a barrier to using public transport are; cost, punctuality and convenience. Whilst we appear to be content in putting a sticking plaster over the gaping wound of cost for now, the other two issues remain largely unsolved. 

If you look at punctuality, there's a couple of factors for me, and I'll put the Newcastle issues this week to one side for a moment. 

As a direct impact of cuts, we've ended up in a situation where the frequency of some key services aren't adequate for at least part of the routes. It's resulting in greater loads, and whilst the buses may not be to full standing capacity all of the time, they're working harder in terms of how many are boarding/alighting. Looking at something like the 21 on Durham Road for example, that combined with traffic lights, and it doesn't take long for a bus to be running 10 late. We're seeing the same on the Metro, when it might only be one or two units taken out of service, but the knock on impact is the central section stations can't deal with the capacity.

Now bringing the Newcastle issues back into it, I think it highlights a bigger problem. When there are issues with punctuality, there doesn't seem to be a plan to get things back on track. This week I've seen 21s, X1s and 58s all running 30+ late, yet all running to the destination. In fact, I saw a photo last night of three 56s running into Sunderland together. Did no one have the foresight of putting all the passengers onto one bus and running the other two light to get back on time?



This isn't a one off though, it's all of the time. There seems to be no plan aside from trying to plough on regardless, which was much my experience when I was unfortunate to live in a village served by Arriva. It doesn't matter if you can see it on an app or whatever, the bus still isn't there when you're expecting it to be, and that's a huge issue to anyone using public transport.

To use Metro as another example, they seem to have been using this 'availability of trains' line for a good while now. Whilst we get and understand that new stock is on the way, again it comes down to an inability to change from the norm. Why not look at options such as a temporary suspension of the airport or lesser used Sunderland branch, then look at procuring bus replacements until new stock can start being fed into the network? That should leave enough trains to comfortably support a core frequency across the network.

Finally on convenience, I just don't think we accept that public transport isn't convenient to the vast majority that may want to use it. Don't take my word for it; look at the trends of car ownership and use compared to bus journeys. Unless you're fortunate enough to live a short walk from a Metro station, or you have a frequent direct bus to where you need to be, you're falling into the bracket of being inconvenienced. Living in Washington, if I want to connect to the Metro system, its now around a 35 minute journey. If you don't live on the route of the 4, then add your connecting bus and up to 15 minutes wait for the 4, and it's very close to an hour. Most days, from any point in Washington, it's around 20 minutes by car.

Then you have the issues with antisocial behaviour, especially on the Metro. You generally aren't aware of any of that when you use a car, and why would you even dream of switching if that's what the reality is? I've been on Metros on an evening before, if I'm travelling back by train, and you've got kids running a mock everywhere. One example a couple of weeks ago, we had kids smoking, others using the grab rails as a climbing frame, and another pissing about on an office chair they'd brought from somewhere.


Absolutely not, but the lack of ambition from within Transport North East is absolutely astonishing. I couldn't believe how yesterday's announcement was celebrated. Not only did we only receive about 20% of what the Bus Service Improvement Plan, written to Government spec, required, but we're now to the low bar of celebrating money that was promised to us 14 months ago, taken away, and then repurposed as something else. 

Until we have local authorities that are willing to stand up and call a spade a spade, then we're going to be repeatedly kicked in the nuts by the Tories. 


I understand that when Metro are having issues, they ask bus operators for ticket acceptance, and it's done at a cost. I wonder if bus operators asked Metro to consider ticket acceptance to allow them to turn services at Gateshead, for example? 

I used the Metro on Thursday, and even whilst it was really busy due to missing peak time services and an increased demand, we all managed to get on the first Metro that arrived and I was in/out of town within 15 minutes.


I don't think the Metro is any worse than bus operations. I'd personally not rely on either if I had to get a fixed train or I had a set time to be in work, and I'd always aim to get there around 45-60 minutes ahead of schedule to account for any issues. This shouldn't be how we think when using public transport.

On your example of communication, when I was travelling into Newcastle to go into the office on Thursday, I questioned the lack of communication from Go North East. When I purchased my ticket, the app showed no issues or delays, nor did the website or social media. The statement of delays only went up around 07.41, which is no good for anyone travelling early, and it never actually appeared on the app. That fire and road closure had been in place since the following evening, so I'm lost as to why it takes so long to get communication out? If I knew in advance, I'd have bought different tickets to what I did.

The fares system for the network as a whole is a bit bonkers, and is largely a product of not wanting to do anything different to the last 30+ years. Tap on/Tap off, or contactless fares, have been running for almost 20 years in London now, yet I think it's only Arriva that have a working system up here? It being isolated is a problem in itself, as it's something that should have really been rolled out network wide, including to the Metro and heavy rail services in the area.

(02 Jul 2023, 6:06 pm)Storx wrote Honestly can't disagree with anything you said there to be fair and haven't really got anything to add for most of it as you've hit the nail in the head. 

Mind talking about comparing to others, I know I have a tendency to slag off Nexus - they deserve it imo but one thing that's glaringly obvious is the lack of connection between everything and it throws the operators under the bus a bit.

For example if I went to Manchester I can go on TFGM bus site and do a simple search where I want to go and it's as easy as that. Come to the North East I'd have to trawl through the Arriva site, the Stagecoach site, the GoNorthEast site and then it's no use as Gateshead Taxis run it since the Nexus site is absolutely useless. 

That for a passenger is a game over. It's all good saying how good the GNE app but it's no use if you need to use multiple operators. Also the fact the North East still doesn't have any form of site to bus multi modal tickets is embarrassing. We must be the only region without on. (Network One you can't buy online and must use an operators app - confusing if you use multiple operators). 

It's something you can't slag the operators off for as it's a grey area how much they can talk. The fact they've now got their own little partnership (NEBus) probably highlights the failings of above. Surely this should be a Nexus thing? We must be the only region that has that - happy to be corrected.

(02 Jul 2023, 6:11 pm)deanmachine wrote I used to use the Nexus Journey Planner all the time, it was really easy and simple to use. It's not as good these days though.

(02 Jul 2023, 7:25 pm)RMF1254 wrote I use the Nexus timetable site which I think is one of the best, especially now that Northumberland is included. It needs a set of bus maps to cover the area and it would be excellent.

(02 Jul 2023, 6:20 pm)Storx wrote There isn't one at all now is there? Oher than the map which is useless unless you know where you're going already.

(01 Jul 2023, 12:34 pm)mb134 wrote I cannot remember the last time I even thought about using it. 

The stations and trains are beyond scruffy at this point. 

(03 Jul 2023, 9:45 am)idiot wrote I use Google maps. Includes all bus operators and rail etc.

(03 Jul 2023, 3:04 pm)V514DFT wrote Im concerned about the Metro, theyre getting new metros granted, but even with battery power aswell, i dont see 46 being enough, especially with all the proposed routes/extensions they want to do, they already upped it from 42 to 46, i know the layout is different on the 555's have 5 articulated sections rather than 4 (combined from 2 carriages), as for buses, i said it in another thread, it should always be seen as a "work in progress" rather than "that'll do", then operators moaning that "due to low passenger numbers" yeah, you have low passenger numbers cus you wont adapt properly, and use a model from the 1980's

(03 Jul 2023, 9:30 am)RMF1254 wrote Fair enough, I am talking about my experience. I use Nexus timetables all the time alongside Bus Times and never seem to have a problem. A couple of examples mentioned, the 57 timetable shows the whole route and the 51 shows the whole timetable including the GNE evening journeys.

(03 Jul 2023, 1:45 pm)deanmachine wrote I mean yeah, but it tells you to do some silly things. Like getting a bus 1 stop when it's just easier to walk. You can tell some of the foreign users who aren't familiar much with the area use google maps because you'll see them following it to the letter which isn't always the best way to get somewhere.

(03 Jul 2023, 3:04 pm)V514DFT wrote Im concerned about the Metro, theyre getting new metros granted, but even with battery power aswell, i dont see 46 being enough, especially with all the proposed routes/extensions they want to do, they already upped it from 42 to 46, i know the layout is different on the 555's have 5 articulated sections rather than 4 (combined from 2 carriages), as for buses, i said it in another thread, it should always be seen as a "work in progress" rather than "that'll do", then operators moaning that "due to low passenger numbers" yeah, you have low passenger numbers cus you wont adapt properly, and use a model from the 1980's

(03 Jul 2023, 4:23 pm)Storx wrote That must've changed relatively recently as last time I looked the timetables were all split by operator so stuff like the 29 you'd end up with 3 timetables. Complicated as an understatement.


Aye hopeless, I've found the same with Traveline aswell which is even worse, the idea of walking 200m is just alien and it comes up with some rather random routes as a result changing in totally inappropriate places.


Tbf it's quite an increase from now they've only got 35 operational units and that's when they're all on the tracks which they're not. Believe the current full daytime units is only 27 units or so, so there's a very lot of slack. If they can't operate that (will go upto 34 or so with the timetable increase) then there's something very wrong.

Mind hopefully the launch goes better than the Class 777's in Liverpool which are the same train thereabouts and having a bad time blighted with problems.

(03 Jul 2023, 1:45 pm)deanmachine wrote I mean yeah, but it tells you to do some silly things. Like getting a bus 1 stop when it's just easier to walk. You can tell some of the foreign users who aren't familiar much with the area use google maps because you'll see them following it to the letter which isn't always the best way to get somewhere.

(03 Jul 2023, 5:10 pm)V514DFT wrote They've already started scrapping the old units, 4055 left last week after being out of action for quite some time, i suspect its been a parts donor, aswell as 4062 which were both residing in the centre in South Shields, so i expect that will go next, and most of us already know about 4022 which was uneconomical to repair after it derailed in the depot in 2017, i just wonder if its a little premature, 555001 and 555002 were sent back, and still havent arrived, so far they only have 555003/4/5 which are only in the testing phase

(03 Jul 2023, 9:54 pm)idiot wrote That's a lot of vandalised units.