(16 Aug 2023, 9:43 am)Ryland wrote How much longer do the current decker have on the x93. Seems to have the issue this year of reliability. 
The deckers in Whitby are not in a good state and majority of them are broken in Redcar depot. 

Not sure on the new enviros as 7575 seems to manage a few hours then disappears off tracking

(16 Aug 2023, 10:00 am)mb134 wrote 7575 seems to just have a dodgy ticket machine, I've checked a few of the days where it's stopped tracking and nothing ever appears to replace it. 

Reports on the MMCs on there seem to be quite positive, and certainly from my experience of them on other express routes they're more than capable of intense work. 

Given the need for investment in Redcar generally, an order for 8 MMCs for the X93 would definitely solve some of the issues. If you then kept all 6 B9s there, you'd have a pool of 14 deckers for the X93, P&Rs, and X94. Obviously that's in a world where Arriva have the cash for that, though.

(16 Aug 2023, 10:00 am)mb134 wrote 7575 seems to just have a dodgy ticket machine, I've checked a few of the days where it's stopped tracking and nothing ever appears to replace it. 

Reports on the MMCs on there seem to be quite positive, and certainly from my experience of them on other express routes they're more than capable of intense work. 

Given the need for investment in Redcar generally, an order for 8 MMCs for the X93 would definitely solve some of the issues. If you then kept all 6 B9s there, you'd have a pool of 14 deckers for the X93, P&Rs, and X94. Obviously that's in a world where Arriva have the cash for that, though.

(18 Aug 2023, 10:23 am)Ryland wrote Today's fleet combo. 18/8/23

4722&6
7575
7406
7403 on the x94
1567 on the x94
1572 on the 95
1430
1435 on the x94

Only 3 deckers on the main route today.
7402/5 and 7609 all on the park and rides today!

Redcar spare ticket machine on the 96 (presuming 2866)

(19 Aug 2023, 10:44 am)L469 YVK wrote Depending on the cost of Euro 6 conversion, would permanantly swapping 6x E400MMC from Ashington with 6x B9TL not be a solution?

B9TLs could then be allocated on the X14/X20 only. And with no evening & Sunday service (except the Sunday X14/X15 board which could be worked using E400MMCs), would at least conserve the B9TLs.

Don't know if these have USB charging? But Arriva being Arriva and liking to put anything on anything, could even put some on the X21/X22 which they'd cope with fine if they couldn't hack the X14/X20.

(19 Aug 2023, 10:44 am)L469 YVK wrote B9TLs could then be allocated on the X14/X20 only. And with no evening & Sunday service (except the Sunday X14/X15 board which could be worked using E400MMCs), would at least conserve the B9TLs.

(19 Aug 2023, 11:59 am)mb134 wrote Neither of those routes are easy. Easier than the X93 sure, but the X14 is essentially all NSL running with lots of hills and a 9 minute blast flat out on the A1. The X20 is flat out from North Seaton to Gosforth, again not ideal for buses which are struggling already. 

The current 14/64 plate E400s can just about handle them both, but then they haven't been nailed on the X93 for their entire lives. 

If the B9s are to be moved, then realistically they need put onto something far less strenuous such as the X46 as Storx has suggested.

(19 Aug 2023, 11:59 am)mb134 wrote Neither of those routes are easy. Easier than the X93 sure, but the X14 is essentially all NSL running with lots of hills and a 9 minute blast flat out on the A1. The X20 is flat out from North Seaton to Gosforth, again not ideal for buses which are struggling already. 

The current 14/64 plate E400s can just about handle them both, but then they haven't been nailed on the X93 for their entire lives. 

If the B9s are to be moved, then realistically they need put onto something far less strenuous such as the X46 as Storx has suggested.

(20 Aug 2023, 12:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Blyth (and Walkergate outstation) had 6x 14/64/15 plate E400 classics capable of the X14/X20, would this not work?

- 6x B9TL - 43/44/45 (or whatever Blyth throw them on)

- 6x E400 Classics back to Ashington for X14/X20

- 4x (on top of the 2x already down there) E400MMC to Whitby for the X93/X94.

(20 Aug 2023, 12:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Blyth (and Walkergate outstation) had 6x 14/64/15 plate E400 classics capable of the X14/X20, would this not work?

- 6x B9TL - 43/44/45 (or whatever Blyth throw them on)

- 6x E400 Classics back to Ashington for X14/X20

- 4x (on top of the 2x already down there) E400MMC to Whitby for the X93/X94.

(20 Aug 2023, 12:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Blyth (and Walkergate outstation) had 6x 14/64/15 plate E400 classics capable of the X14/X20, would this not work?

- 6x B9TL - 43/44/45 (or whatever Blyth throw them on)

- 6x E400 Classics back to Ashington for X14/X20

- 4x (on top of the 2x already down there) E400MMC to Whitby for the X93/X94.

(20 Aug 2023, 12:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote If Blyth (and Walkergate outstation) had 6x 14/64/15 plate E400 classics capable of the X14/X20, would this not work?

(20 Aug 2023, 3:01 pm)Storx wrote On all this X93/X94 talk I'm not sure if Deckers are even the best option.

Couldn't another option be to get 14 or so full length Enviro 200 MMC's for the X4/X93/X94 in the Winter months with the B9's supporting busy boards.

Then in Summer time swap some of the Enviro 200 MMC's and Enviro 400 MMC's around between Ashington and Redcar to make up the PVR and run a few boards in Ashington with brand new singles instead which are more than enough when the schools are off for some.

Fixes everything imo as the Deckers are overkill in the winter and sorts the X4 mess out at the same time.

They've got 10 months on paper to sort it as Pulsars are more than enough in 3 weeks time bar Goth weekend.

(20 Aug 2023, 4:05 pm)mb134 wrote Maybe in the middle of January deckers aren't needed on the X93, but I was down there early March and the X93 I got definitely required one. 

Even aside from that, what Ashington boards? Realistically you'd probably need to send down at least 3 to cover the X94, probably 4 so there's a spare. 

Single decks couldn't cope with any X14/15/18 board in the summer for a start. There's maybe one X20 board, but even then that's left people in North Seaton recently when a Pulsar had to be allocated. There's already more than enough single deckers there for the 1/2 and the one 35 board which is booked a Pulsar. Then you get to the X21/22 boards. No Saturday X21 board is a pleasant experience with a single decker, and despite it being the summer holidays the AM peaks still get busy and the loads throughout the day are pretty healthy too, and anecdotally passenger numbers have continued to grow with the current £2 fares.

(20 Aug 2023, 4:42 pm)Storx wrote You'd still have the B9 Decker's to run those few boards though.

X21/X22, I was more thinking though and the 35 during school holidays. They're coping alright now really, sure they could get away with another 2 if need be. 

Guess it depends what other investment happens, imo I still don't think it wouldn't be a bad replacement for the time being to get some DB300's (from London) for Blyth to see out the remaining Enviro's once the 43/44/45 changes come, if they're anything like the last lot, the B7's, I can't imagine many would complain - there should be a few released before next Spring and then the Blyth Enviro 400's (15 Plates) could go down to Redcar aswell to replace the B7's so they might not need as many and send 7609/7610 home in the process.


If Redcar can't run it with those buses then there is something wrong with the engineering imo. If the 15 Plates proove reliable then just reduce the Enviro 200/400 swap at Ashington.

(20 Aug 2023, 6:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote I’m also not convinced you’d get more than a couple of years out of E200s on the X4 and a far more suitable vehicle would be the B8/Evora… but then you could argue the same investment is required across other routes such as the 63, 5/5a, X66 etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(20 Aug 2023, 6:57 pm)mb134 wrote Investment in a fleet of B8/Evora's, in my view, would be just about the smartest thing Arriva could do to sort out the mess of ADC. They'd be more than suitable for the routes you mention (the X66 in particular is a shout, especially given the growth on it recently), but I imagine also the likes of the X12. They seem like the perfect Pulsar replacement, and Arriva have already ordered a decent amount for other operations. 

I'd have said the 1 too, but after travelling on it on a rammed 4801 post frequency decrease (or the X1 going) it seems like that could actually benefit from deckers?

Obviously this is Arriva though, and it seems that sort of investment is a pipe dream at best.

(20 Aug 2023, 6:12 pm)mb134 wrote As much as I like those 15 plate E400s, you're asking for trouble putting them onto the X93/94. They're brilliant buses when running right, but giving them to a depot who seem to have engineering issues when they're probably past their best doesn't bode well - they're double the age now than what the original E400s were when they were initially allocated to the X93, and that ended brilliantly. 

Ashington can in theory cope with an extra 2 single deckers, but all that will do is ensure that they'll be allocated to the X21/22 at a time where they'll want to be putting deckers on it as much as possible given the imminent train introduction. They currently have 2 spare deckers on paper and, while your suggestion would put them level, there's obviously always going to be at least one VOR. It creates problems on Saturdays, in particular, which is seeing even deckers head into town full & standing on matchdays (even on the final Saturday pre-season friendly) now with the reduced frequency. It also creates operational headaches when a Morpeth express/X20 needs replacing, recently it seems they've avoided putting a spare Pulsar on and instead have had to pull a decker off an X21/22 to work it instead.

(05 Oct 2023, 9:44 pm)megansmith wrote 7424.25 26 don't need replacing as there very unrulable for the x93 x94  lucky if there last the moring

(05 Oct 2023, 11:45 pm)peter wrote They don't need replacing because they're unreliable?? BusTimes would indicate that while 7426 has been taken off a few times during the day recently, 7424/5 don't appear to have had any issues.

(20 Aug 2023, 4:42 pm)Storx wrote You'd still have the B9 Decker's to run those few boards though.

X21/X22, I was more thinking though and the 35 during school holidays. They're coping alright now really, sure they could get away with another 2 if need be. 

Guess it depends what other investment happens, imo I still don't think it wouldn't be a bad replacement for the time being to get some DB300's (from London) for Blyth to see out the remaining Enviro's once the 43/44/45 changes come, if they're anything like the last lot, the B7's, I can't imagine many would complain - there should be a few released before next Spring and then the Blyth Enviro 400's (15 Plates) could go down to Redcar aswell to replace the B7's so they might not need as many and send 7609/7610 home in the process.

So you'd end up with

Redcar (Summer)
4x Enviro 400 MMC
4x Enviro 400 (15 Plates)
6x Volvo B9's 

Ashington (Summer)
4x Enviro 200 MMC
4x Enviro 400 (14 Plates at Blyth)

Redcar (Winter)
4x Enviro 400 (15 Plates)
4x Enviro 200 MMC
6x Volvo B9

its 7424 25 26 what are the issue for the x93x94




Ashington (Winter)
4x Enviro 400 MMC
4x Enviro 400 (14 Plates at Blyth)

Blyth
2x DB300 (7609/7610)
8x or 14x DB300 (Ex London) - X7/X8/X9 with/without Pulsars (operationally be easier without them).

If Redcar can't run it with those buses then there is something wrong with the engineering imo. If the 15 Plates proove reliable then just reduce the Enviro 200/400 swap at Ashington.

(20 Aug 2023, 4:42 pm)Storx wrote You'd still have the B9 Decker's to run those few boards though.

X21/X22, I was more thinking though and the 35 during school holidays. They're coping alright now really, sure they could get away with another 2 if need be. 

Guess it depends what other investment happens, imo I still don't think it wouldn't be a bad replacement for the time being to get some DB300's (from London) for Blyth to see out the remaining Enviro's once the 43/44/45 changes come, if they're anything like the last lot, the B7's, I can't imagine many would complain - there should be a few released before next Spring and then the Blyth Enviro 400's (15 Plates) could go down to Redcar aswell to replace the B7's so they might not need as many and send 7609/7610 home in the process.

So you'd end up with

Redcar (Summer)
4x Enviro 400 MMC
4x Enviro 400 (15 Plates)
6x Volvo B9's 

Ashington (Summer)
4x Enviro 200 MMC
4x Enviro 400 (14 Plates at Blyth)

Redcar (Winter)
4x Enviro 400 (15 Plates)
4x Enviro 200 MMC
6x Volvo B9

its 7424 25 26 what are the issue for the x93x94




Ashington (Winter)
4x Enviro 400 MMC
4x Enviro 400 (14 Plates at Blyth)

Blyth
2x DB300 (7609/7610)
8x or 14x DB300 (Ex London) - X7/X8/X9 with/without Pulsars (operationally be easier without them).

If Redcar can't run it with those buses then there is something wrong with the engineering imo. If the 15 Plates proove reliable then just reduce the Enviro 200/400 swap at Ashington.

(01 Nov 2023, 10:58 pm)Ryland wrote For me, take the single decks off the x93/4 all together. Only use for emergencies like high winds. Or last minute breakdowns.

New MMc at least 9 would be great.
Keep 2 or 3 b9s for the park and ride.

Scrap or sell off the rest of the deckers currently in place.

In terms of the 95/6 incest in some new style front wheeled drive mini buses.

X4 new buses again with 6 cylinder engines

(01 Nov 2023, 11:00 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Reckon that's taking this beyond a hobby :s