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+--- Thread: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action (/showthread.php?tid=4392)
Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Chris 1 - 17 Aug 2023
It continues:
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-bus-chaos-could-27537092
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Ambassador - 17 Aug 2023
Good for them
The service has been an utter shambles south of the Tyne since Chester closed. Early mornings and later evenings are particularly bad and it's all down to underinvestment and mismanagement during Covid coming back to bite them
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Andreos1 - 18 Aug 2023
(17 Aug 2023, 11:53 am)Chris 1 wrote It continues:
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-bus-chaos-could-27537092
I'm sure someone pointed out the patterns of strike action and poor industrial relations wherever NF had been.
I'm not surprised to read this myself.
Interesting to note the comments about back-office staff. Maybe the company will be able to rely on them to get vehicles moving. Again.
(17 Aug 2023, 12:05 pm)Ambassador wrote Good for them
The service has been an utter shambles south of the Tyne since Chester closed. Early mornings and later evenings are particularly bad and it's all down to underinvestment and mismanagement during Covid coming back to bite them
I'm not sure it was ever perfect prior to it closing.
However, moving ops elsewhere was hardly likely to improve the situation. Particularly in the short-term with the network basically the same as it was.
Another missed opportunity to look at the network perhaps?
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Iamtheone8483748 - 18 Aug 2023
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-east-pay-deal
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Ambassador - 18 Aug 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 2:58 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-east-pay-deal
That’s the most embarrassing thing I’ve read in a while. Ben seems to like the limelight…he’s terrible at being in it sadly
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - xpm - 24 Aug 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 4:33 pm)Ambassador wrote That’s the most embarrassing thing I’ve read in a while. Ben seems to like the limelight…he’s terrible at being in it sadly
Ironically - considering he works for Go Ahead 'Group' - you reckon he would know the correct internet URL for it wouldn't you? However, the web address published in the press release www.goahead.com redirects to an american site www.goaheadtours.com
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - XQ Zero - 09 Sep 2023
(18 Aug 2023, 2:58 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-east-pay-deal
Was this offer accepted by the staff?
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Adrian - 09 Sep 2023
(09 Sep 2023, 2:58 pm)XQ Zero wrote Was this offer accepted by the staff?
Ballot closes on Tuesday, according to the Unite press release: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/august/north-east-england-faces-bus-chaos-as-workers-ballot-for-strikes-over-pay/
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Adrian - 13 Sep 2023
Ballot result: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/september/go-north-east-drivers-vote-for-strike-action-over-poor-pay/
98% in favour of industrial action on a near 85% turnout... how to misjudge the mood of your workforce!
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Ambassador - 13 Sep 2023
(13 Sep 2023, 11:51 am)Adrian wrote Ballot result: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/september/go-north-east-drivers-vote-for-strike-action-over-poor-pay/
98% in favour of industrial action on a near 85% turnout... how to misjudge the mood of your workforce!
Tbf, on some routes - will passengers even notice the difference anymore?
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Unber43 - 13 Sep 2023
(13 Sep 2023, 11:51 am)Adrian wrote Ballot result: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/september/go-north-east-drivers-vote-for-strike-action-over-poor-pay/
98% in favour of industrial action on a near 85% turnout... how to misjudge the mood of your workforce!
Thats a damning indictment of GNE Management Relations to their staff, they misjudged it quite spectacularly its astonishing.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - James101 - 13 Sep 2023
Crikey - I missed this thread until today. All singing & dancing press releases for a pay deal that moves drivers closer to minimum wage than ever is truly toxic.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - EastCoastMXZ1751 - 13 Sep 2023
(13 Sep 2023, 1:27 pm)Ambassador wrote Tbf, on some routes - will passengers even notice the difference anymore?
309s it'll be normal service the way its been running this week
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Chris 1 - 14 Sep 2023
I thought they would have come back with another offer but maybe not, straight to ACAS?
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-east-proposes-ACAS-talks
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Adrian - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 11:57 am)Chris 1 wrote I thought they would have come back with another offer but maybe not, straight to ACAS?
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/go-north-east-proposes-ACAS-talks
Wow. Did Ben miss his calling as an Editor for the Daily Mail?!
It doesn't matter what RPI and CPI are now. Back in July 2023, which I assume from the backdating is the pay review date, then RPI was at 10.9% and CPI at 6.8%. Making the offer below inflation, as Unite state... this is all publicly available information.
It's about as 'inflation-busting' as the 'congestion-busting' buses. I'm sure he's not as naive to think that you can drag your heels on a pay review, waiting for conditions to improve, and then make a backdated offer based on that?
It's also worth noting that the supposed offer includes "some standardisation of working practices across its six depots". So again, depending what these changes are, the offer could be a below-inflation uplift plus cuts to terms and working conditions.
The proposal of ACAS talks sounds like smoke and mirrors to me at this stage. Having been involved in them in the past, they can be largely unproductive if you're at polar opposites to each other. This is often the case when terms changes are attempted to be tied into a pay offer.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Storx - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 12:22 pm)Adrian wrote Wow. Did Ben miss his calling as an Editor for the Daily Mail?!
It doesn't matter what RPI and CPI are now. Back in July 2023, which I assume from the backdating is the pay review date, then RPI was at 10.9% and CPI at 6.8%. Making the offer below inflation, as Unite state... this is all publicly available information.
It's about as 'inflation-busting' as the 'congestion-busting' buses. I'm sure he's not as naive to think that you can drag your heels on a pay review, waiting for conditions to improve, and then make a backdated offer based on that?
It's also worth noting that the supposed offer includes "some standardisation of working practices across its six depots". So again, depending what these changes are, the offer could be a below-inflation uplift plus cuts to terms and working conditions.
The proposal of ACAS talks sounds like smoke and mirrors to me at this stage. Having been involved in them in the past, they can be largely unproductive if you're at polar opposites to each other. This is often the case when terms changes are attempted to be tied into a pay offer.
Two of them are reduced paid breaks and longer shifts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66807466
Mentioned there which I could see why could be both unpopular.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Ambassador - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 12:22 pm)Adrian wrote Wow. Did Ben miss his calling as an Editor for the Daily Mail?!
It doesn't matter what RPI and CPI are now. Back in July 2023, which I assume from the backdating is the pay review date, then RPI was at 10.9% and CPI at 6.8%. Making the offer below inflation, as Unite state... this is all publicly available information.
It's about as 'inflation-busting' as the 'congestion-busting' buses. I'm sure he's not as naive to think that you can drag your heels on a pay review, waiting for conditions to improve, and then make a backdated offer based on that?
It's also worth noting that the supposed offer includes "some standardisation of working practices across its six depots". So again, depending what these changes are, the offer could be a below-inflation uplift plus cuts to terms and working conditions.
The proposal of ACAS talks sounds like smoke and mirrors to me at this stage. Having been involved in them in the past, they can be largely unproductive if you're at polar opposites to each other. This is often the case when terms changes are attempted to be tied into a pay offer.
The PR is so weird. The 'regions largest bus operator' - why is it in there?! It's irrelevant. The statements make me utterly cringe and I'm not sure who they're aimed at. The public have zero trust in the organisation and you're not going to a bus operators site to read a PR statement on strike action. They're more than happy to front up on this but not on the actual horrendous service levels they currently offer
The attack on terms and conditions is often a deal breaker vs actual cash (which is what we're seeing in the railway strike)
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - PH - BQA - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 12:22 pm)Adrian wrote Wow. Did Ben miss his calling as an Editor for the Daily Mail?!
The wording of the statement ("Bosses at the firm") reads much more like something you'd find in a tabloid than an official communication from a company.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Chris 1 - 14 Sep 2023
In terms of the breaks, am I right in thinking that currently GNE is half an hour unpaid; ANE is 45 mins unpaid and SCNE is all unpaid?
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - R852 PRG - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 12:51 pm)mb134 wrote The wording of the statement ("Bosses at the firm") reads much more like something you'd find in a tabloid than an official communication from a company.
Based.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Rapidsnap - 14 Sep 2023
Count themselves lucky, I don't get my breaks paid at work, and I'm lucky if I manage to take my full break as I'm normally interupted during them to answer a phonecall or to solve an issue because the newer member of staff aren't sure how to sort it or it's a customer being a general pain in the arse and not accepting the word of the newer staff member and wants to hear it from someone who has worked their longer.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Adrian - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 12:41 pm)Ambassador wrote The PR is so weird. The 'regions largest bus operator' - why is it in there?! It's irrelevant. The statements make me utterly cringe and I'm not sure who they're aimed at. The public have zero trust in the organisation and you're not going to a bus operators site to read a PR statement on strike action. They're more than happy to front up on this but not on the actual horrendous service levels they currently offer
The attack on terms and conditions is often a deal breaker vs actual cash (which is what we're seeing in the railway strike)
It's a bizarre way to conduct industrial relations. We all know that there'll be internal comms that come out during a dispute, and that's an employer's prerogative, but it's mind-blowing to see one played out in the public domain. They should really stick to responding to comment from the media, rather than writing their own tabloid-style press releases.
Being on the TU side, I've never been adverse to reviewing terms and conditions, but those talks almost exclusively never came to fruition. Most employers, in my experience, only ever want to talk about driving down terms and conditions, without looking on the other hand of where they could improve things. A workforce is never going to accept an erosion of terms and conditions for nothing, which is why unscrupulous employers try and tie changes into pay deals.
Looking at the paid meal break example. If say someone is working 260 shifts a year, and they've got a 30 minute paid meal break, then that's a cut of almost £1,600 to them on that £12.83p/h figure. That 9.1% pay increase suddenly doesn't sound so generous.
(14 Sep 2023, 12:51 pm)mb134 wrote The wording of the statement ("Bosses at the firm") reads much more like something you'd find in a tabloid than an official communication from a company.
It's quite an aggressive way of writing in third person. "Bosses at the firm", when signed off by the boss of the firm?
(14 Sep 2023, 4:59 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Count themselves lucky, I don't get my breaks paid at work, and I'm lucky if I manage to take my full break as I'm normally interupted during them to answer a phonecall or to solve an issue because the newer member of staff aren't sure how to sort it or it's a customer being a general pain in the arse and not accepting the word of the newer staff member and wants to hear it from someone who has worked their longer.
It's not a race to the bottom though, is it? You might not want to fight for decent rights at work, but others do.
Depending on how long your shift is, you likely have a right to an uninterrupted break: https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Unber43 - 14 Sep 2023
I thought GNE breaks were un-paid untill after 30 mins where after that they will be paid its not their fault that on the shfit they're on they get an hour and 15 min break.
I wonder how long is the longest break is inbetween driving
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - R852 PRG - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 6:02 pm)Unber43 wrote I thought GNE breaks were un-paid untill after 30 mins where after that they will be paid its not their fault that on the shfit they're on they get an hour and 15 min break.
I wonder how long is the longest break is inbetween driving
Historically, conditions were not standardised and varied on a depot-to-depot basis. In each depot's establishment, there are rotas for drivers who are on paid meal breaks and those on unpaid meal breaks; in most depots, the rotas for unpaid meal breaks are larger than those for paid meal breaks, although this has been facilitated through the departure of older drivers on historic conditions and the influx of newer drivers on newer conditions.
As an example, at Chester, there was one large unpaid breaks rota, a paid breaks rota - which got progressively smaller as old hands left - and a 4 day rota with unpaid breaks only. At Gateshead, by comparison, there are paid and unpaid breaks for both the Green Rota (historically Sunderland Road routes in and around eastern Gateshead, with changeovers at Gateshead Metro) and the Red Rota (predominantly ex-Winlaton stuff, with the exception of the 49s etc; driver changeovers at the Metrocentre). Both the Green and Red Rotas have subsidiary 4 day rotas, with each having paid and unpaid lines in accordance with drivers' conditions.
Nowadays, most drivers across the company are on standardised terms and conditions with unpaid meal breaks, however, some - mostly longer serving drivers - are on paid meal breaks. With time, paid meal breaks have become the minority in most depots. Deptford is an exception to this rule, with a higher proportion of drivers having paid meal breaks.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Malarkey - 14 Sep 2023
I'm confused regarding this statement.
Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield, said, “The two most talked about inflation measures, CPI and RPI are currently running at 6.4% and 9.0% respectively. Our offer of 9.11% beats both these figures and means our driver pay package will be among the very best in the region.
When CPI and RPI =15.4% combined as i'm sure are meant to be calculated together, how does Go North East's offer of 9.11% beat both of the figures stated as it looks to me like they are only going off of CPI.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Thomas12 - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 8:24 pm)Malarkey wrote I'm confused regarding this statement.
Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield, said, “The two most talked about inflation measures, CPI and RPI are currently running at 6.4% and 9.0% respectively. Our offer of 9.11% beats both these figures and means our driver pay package will be among the very best in the region.
When CPI and RPI =15.4% combined as i'm sure are meant to be calculated together, how does Go North East's offer of 9.11% beat both of the figures stated as it looks to me like they are only going off of CPI.
They are different measures of inflation, not separate. RPI is effectively an upper limit measure of inflation.
RPI includes some of the aspects of CPI, but also includes aspects relating to house prices.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - citaro5284 - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 8:24 pm)Malarkey wrote I'm confused regarding this statement.
Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield, said, “The two most talked about inflation measures, CPI and RPI are currently running at 6.4% and 9.0% respectively. Our offer of 9.11% beats both these figures and means our driver pay package will be among the very best in the region.
When CPI and RPI =15.4% combined as i'm sure are meant to be calculated together, how does Go North East's offer of 9.11% beat both of the figures stated as it looks to me like they are only going off of CPI.
No, they are not combined, 2 different indexes.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - busmanT - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 8:32 pm)citaro5284 wrote No, theyic are not combined, 2 different indexes.And RPI was been dropped as an official national statistic some time ago.
The current hourly rate is £12.83 - when increased by 9.1% this would become £14.00 per hour, an increase of £1.17 per hour which, on a 39 hour week, is an extra £45.63 per week.
A much bigger increase than many other workers will get this year, and on top of a 10% plus increase last year.
Is the main issue that GNE drivers get paid for more of their mealbreaks than Arriva and Stagecoach do?
So an Arriva or Stagecoach driver does more driving in the 39 hours that they are paid for than a GNE driver?
Someone in an earlier post mentioned minimum wage - it's £10.42 per hour btw.
RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - Adrian - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 9:29 pm)busmanT wrote And RPI was been dropped as an official national statistic some time ago.
The Government doesn't like RPI, because it doesn't mask the problem. RPI includes everything in cost of living; mortgage interest, rent increases, housing costs and council tax to name a few, all of which are shooting up.
To emphasise this point, you'll find that when the Government want money from you, they'll always calculate the increase using RPI... see here an example: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/student-loans-interest-rates-and-repayment-threshold-announcement--4
If you're negotiating a pay deal on behalf of members, I'm not sure why you'd be expected to use an index that excludes some of the biggest costs members will have? It would be nonsensical.
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RE: Go North East - 2023 Pay Deal and Industrial Action - PH - BQA - 14 Sep 2023
(14 Sep 2023, 9:29 pm)busmanT wrote And RPI was been dropped as an official national statistic some time ago.
If RPI is not relevant, then why are GNE including it in an official statement? They can't have it both ways.