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+--- Thread: Subsidised Routes (/showthread.php?tid=4427)
Subsidised Routes - Storx - 02 Nov 2023
Seen someone done a freedom of request to the councils about subsidised routes and there appears to a few extra routes appeared on the list pretty much exclusively to GoNorthEast but to summary all these routes have a subsidy in some of form now from Nexus, Durham or Northumberland Councils.
Arriva (Durham if not mentioned)
1, 5, 6, 8, 22, 24, 43, 48, 49, 56, 58, 64, X22, X75, X14 (ANU), X15 (ANU), X18 (ANU), 57A (ANU)
GoNorthEast
1, 351, 353, 41/41A, 91, 57, 84, 85, 35, 35A, 39A, 39B, 79, 81, 82, 83, 93, 94, X30, X31, Q3, 5, 5A, 9, 24, 26, 50, 51, 52, 39, X45, 96, 49, 49A, 12, 47, 27, 10A, 8, 8A, 6, 15, 20, 34, 60, 65, 78, 16, 16A, Peterlee Locals, 28, 29, 61, 61A, V1, V2, V4, V5, X15, X72, Hexham Locals, AD122, 74
Stagecoach
317, 18, 553, 32, 32A, 35, 62, X78, 8, 12, 10, 11
From - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/subsidised_bus_services_13#incoming-2383925, https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supported_bus_services_202030#incoming-2399914 and https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1007413/response/2393025/attach/4/FOI%2012671%20Attachment.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
Obviously I could jump straight into the middle bit but I'll be positive and say it's quite impressive how little of the Arriva Northumbria and Stagecoach network is subsidised really. I always thought that more of would be subsidised in some way, especially in South Shields and the 1, 2, 35, 44 and 45 with Arriva - an early or late Sunday journey etc.
PS. Whoever done the FOI fair play, as I believe they've been done the last time we were talking about these on here.
RE: Subsidised Routes - LVK 404L - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 3:03 pm)Storx wrote Seen someone done a freedom of request to the councils about subsidised routes and there appears to a few extra routes appeared on the list pretty much exclusively to GoNorthEast but to summary all these routes have a subsidy in some of form now from Nexus, Durham or Northumberland Councils.
Arriva (Durham if not mentioned)
1, 5, 6, 8, 22, 24, 43, 48, 49, 56, 58, 64, X22, X75, X14 (ANU), X15 (ANU), X18 (ANU), 57A (ANU)
GoNorthEast
1, 351, 353, 41/41A, 91, 57, 84, 85, 35, 35A, 39A, 39B, 79, 81, 82, 83, 93, 94, X30, X31, Q3, 5, 5A, 9, 24, 26, 50, 51, 52, 39, X45, 96, 49, 49A, 12, 47, 27, 10A, 8, 8A, 6, 15, 20, 34, 60, 65, 78, 16, 16A, Peterlee Locals, 28, 29, 61, 61A, V1, V2, V4, V5, X15, X72, Hexham Locals, AD122, 74
Stagecoach
317, 18, 553, 32, 32A, 35, 62, X78, 8, 12, 10, 11
From - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/subsidised_bus_services_13#incoming-2383925, https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supported_bus_services_202030#incoming-2399914 and https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1007413/response/2393025/attach/4/FOI%2012671%20Attachment.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
Obviously I could jump straight into the middle bit but I'll be positive and say it's quite impressive how little of the Arriva Northumbria and Stagecoach network is subsidised really. I always thought that more of would be subsidised in some way, especially in South Shields and the 1, 2, 35, 44 and 45 with Arriva - an early or late Sunday journey etc.
PS. Whoever done the FOI fair play, as I believe they've been done the last time we were talking about these on here.
Yeah in South Shields, i may be wrong hut im sure 1, 2 are Nexus, 12 , 18, 30 and X20 all evenings and possibly Sundays and also the fully Nexus 516.
RE: Subsidised Routes - DeltaMan - 02 Nov 2023
A-Line and JH Coaches getting paid more than GNE for a boat load of scholars. No wonder Bensham is a mess!
RE: Subsidised Routes - OrangeArrow49 - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 5:04 pm)DeltaMan wrote A-Line and JH Coaches getting paid more than GNE for a boat load of scholars. No wonder Bensham is a mess!
Really?
RE: Subsidised Routes - Storx - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 5:01 pm)ifm001 wrote Yeah in South Shields, i may be wrong hut im sure 1, 2 are Nexus, 12 , 18, 30 and X20 all evenings and possibly Sundays and also the fully Nexus 516.
Don't think they are, they're not on the list if they are. Only the 10/11 (North Shields assume), 12 and 516 are on the list and two 8's which could be either a double for the Sunderland one or one Sunderland, one South Shields. I thought there was more aswell though, seems like they must've took it on commercially. I know there used to be early subsidises on the Arriva 44/45 aswell but they've gone aswell.
Subsidised Routes - pbjd - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 5:13 pm)Storx wrote Don't think they are, they're not on the list if they are. Only the 10/11 (North Shields assume), 12 and 516 are on the list and two 8's which could be either a double for the Sunderland one or one Sunderland, one South Shields. I thought there was more aswell though, seems like they must've took it on commercially. I know there used to be early subsidises on the Arriva 44/45 aswell but they've gone aswell.
The 8 being there twice I believe is due to daytimes being a separate contract to evenings.
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RE: Subsidised Routes - V514DFT - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 3:03 pm)Storx wrote Seen someone done a freedom of request to the councils about subsidised routes and there appears to a few extra routes appeared on the list pretty much exclusively to GoNorthEast but to summary all these routes have a subsidy in some of form now from Nexus, Durham or Northumberland Councils.
Arriva (Durham if not mentioned)
1, 5, 6, 8, 22, 24, 43, 48, 49, 56, 58, 64, X22, X75, X14 (ANU), X15 (ANU), X18 (ANU), 57A (ANU)
GoNorthEast
1, 351, 353, 41/41A, 91, 57, 84, 85, 35, 35A, 39A, 39B, 79, 81, 82, 83, 93, 94, X30, X31, Q3, 5, 5A, 9, 24, 26, 50, 51, 52, 39, X45, 96, 49, 49A, 12, 47, 27, 10A, 8, 8A, 6, 15, 20, 34, 60, 65, 78, 16, 16A, Peterlee Locals, 28, 29, 61, 61A, V1, V2, V4, V5, X15, X72, Hexham Locals, AD122, 74
Stagecoach
317, 18, 553, 32, 32A, 35, 62, X78, 8, 12, 10, 11
From - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/subsidised_bus_services_13#incoming-2383925, https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supported_bus_services_202030#incoming-2399914 and https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1007413/response/2393025/attach/4/FOI%2012671%20Attachment.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1
Obviously I could jump straight into the middle bit but I'll be positive and say it's quite impressive how little of the Arriva Northumbria and Stagecoach network is subsidised really. I always thought that more of would be subsidised in some way, especially in South Shields and the 1, 2, 35, 44 and 45 with Arriva - an early or late Sunday journey etc.
PS. Whoever done the FOI fair play, as I believe they've been done the last time we were talking about these on here.
Whats the 15 you've got down in GNE?
RE: Subsidised Routes - Storx - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 5:44 pm)pbjd wrote The 8 being there twice I believe is due to daytimes being a separate contract to evenings.
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Yeah, had a feeling it might've been that but wasn't sure. Surprised the Sunderland 18 isn't on, at all, mind.
(02 Nov 2023, 5:50 pm)V514DFT wrote Whats the 15 you've got down in GNE?
Honestly not sure, it's on the Co. Durham list. Was just copying the routes. It's Consett to Durham though so assume must be some X15 boards but there doesn't seem to be any only Consett to Durham, the X15 being on lower down. God knows tbh.
RE: Subsidised Routes - PH - BQA - 02 Nov 2023
I think the Arriva Northumbria one will have changed recently with the BSIP introductions of the X16, Stannington 44, and an improved Morpeth to Cramlington 43.
On your point on being surprised on their 2 and 35 in particular, both are very busy services and I'd actually have been more surprised if they were receiving subsidies.
RE: Subsidised Routes - Storx - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 6:39 pm)mb134 wrote I think the Arriva Northumbria one will have changed recently with the BSIP introductions of the X16, Stannington 44, and an improved Morpeth to Cramlington 43.
On your point on being surprised on their 2 and 35 in particular, both are very busy services and I'd actually have been more surprised if they were receiving subsidies.
Yeah they should have, it was from August that. None of the BSIP stuff is on there though, so left it off to be balanced.
Even still though, thought there might've been a small one for the very late 35 journeys on a Sunday or the 2 beyond Morpeth - the place has ran away. Similar with the 1 beyond Ashington towards Cresswell and Widdrington Station aswell. The core of course, I wouldn't.
The 57A subsidy is interesting in North Tyneside aswell, seems like the complete bizarre Whitley Bay to North Shields is commercial on a Sunday day time aswell (same subsidy as Mon - Sat).
Mind to flip that I'm very surprised some of the GNE ones are there, in particular the 20, 24 and 60. Always seem like gold mine routes and the 20 isn't the Langley Park bit either.
Subsidised Routes - Dan - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 6:39 pm)mb134 wrote I think the Arriva Northumbria one will have changed recently with the BSIP introductions of the X16, Stannington 44, and an improved Morpeth to Cramlington 43.
On your point on being surprised on their 2 and 35 in particular, both are very busy services and I'd actually have been more surprised if they were receiving subsidies.
And the 434 too for Arriva.
We’re obviously seeing an increase in Stagecoach’s desire for contracted work too - see recent tenders in Teesside, service 59 to Durham, etc. They too will benefit from BSIP funding for the network.
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RE: Subsidised Routes - Aaron21 - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 6:54 pm)Dan wrote And the 434 too for Arriva.Probs could bid on a few gne routes that get withdrawn or changed. Let's just hope March brings the 352 to a withdrawn close
We’re obviously seeing an increase in Stagecoach’s desire for contracted work too - see recent tenders in Teesside, service 59 to Durham, etc. They too will benefit from BSIP funding for the network.
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RE: Subsidised Routes - Storx - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 6:54 pm)Dan wrote And the 434 too for Arriva.
We’re obviously seeing an increase in Stagecoach’s desire for contracted work too - see recent tenders in Teesside, service 59 to Durham, etc. They too will benefit from BSIP funding for the network.
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X7/X8 aswell up here.
Mind talking of Stagecoach, I'm surprised how much the 317 tender is, especially if I'm right by the codes they're taking a share of the fares aswell.
Gateshead Taxi's I'm surprised actually make any money mind to flip it, £600 per day seems rather low for 14 hours of work (X46). No wonder they win everything.
Subsidised Routes - Dan - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 7:02 pm)Aaron21 wrote Probs could bid on a few gne routes that get withdrawn or changed. Let's just hope March brings the 352 to a withdrawn close
Why would you hope for service reductions? What a ridiculous thing to have a desire for.
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RE: Subsidised Routes - Andreos1 - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 7:35 pm)Dan wrote Why would you hope for service reductions? What a ridiculous thing to have a desire for.
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Offer him a job! He has 'Commercial Team' written all over him.
There's only him and the GNE commercial team seemingly 'in to' that sort of thing.
I've heard that some people offer bonuses and perks if you whisper 'service reductions' in to their right ear, whilst having the trousers of their left leg rolled up.
RE: Subsidised Routes - Aaron21 - 02 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 7:35 pm)Dan wrote Why would you hope for service reductions? What a ridiculous thing to have a desire for.
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Still yet to find one thing good about the 352 that doesn't make it better than the 37. Bar the one thing u mentioned a while ago saying it serves Haymarket
Subsidised Routes - Dan - 03 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 11:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote Offer him a job! He has 'Commercial Team' written all over him.
There's only him and the GNE commercial team seemingly 'in to' that sort of thing.
I've heard that some people offer bonuses and perks if you whisper 'service reductions' in to their right ear, whilst having the trousers of their left leg rolled up.
Not sure he’d fit in these days.
Since January, haven’t we seen a constant increase in PVR and service levels at Go North East where the staffing position has allowed this? Barring the strike period, of course.
Looks to me that there’s been a different agenda this year, focused on growth and expansion.
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RE: Subsidised Routes - Ambassador - 03 Nov 2023
My main takeaway is that some of that is utterly unsustainable and classic Civil Service/Council spending mentality of just...fatty waste
RE: Subsidised Routes - Andreos1 - 03 Nov 2023
(03 Nov 2023, 6:26 am)Dan wrote Not sure he’d fit in these days.
Since January, haven’t we seen a constant increase in PVR and service levels at Go North East where the staffing position has allowed this? Barring the strike period, of course.
Looks to me that there’s been a different agenda this year, focused on growth and expansion.
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Ah I'm not sure.
Given the chance to make cuts, save money and lower overheads, I reckon just a quick little whisper in that right ear and it would just snowball.
Almost like offering some heroin to someone in recovery.
It would be too tempting.
RE: Subsidised Routes - idiot - 03 Nov 2023
(02 Nov 2023, 3:03 pm)Stor wrote GoNorthEastI really hope there not getting paid for this? All the timetables should have a symbol if any of the journey is subsidised in any part. Used to happen a few year ago why not now?
1, 351, 353, 41/41A, 91, 57, 84, 85, 35, 35A, 39A, 39B, 79, 81, 82, 83, 93, 94, X30, X31, Q3, 5, 5A, 9, 24, 26, 50, 51, 52, 39, X45, 96, 49, 49A, 12, 47, 27, 10A, 8, 8A, 6, 15, 20, 34, 60, 65, 78, 16, 16A, Peterlee Locals, 28, 29, 61, 61A, V1, V2, V4, V5, X15, X72, Hexham Locals, AD122, 74
RE: Subsidised Routes - Andreos1 - 03 Nov 2023
(03 Nov 2023, 1:49 pm)idiot wrote I really hope there not getting paid for this? All the timetables should have a symbol if any of the journey is subsidised in any part. Used to happen a few year ago why not now?
The clawback from GNE should be huge.
RE: Subsidised Routes - Rob44 - 03 Nov 2023
GoNorthEast
1, 351, 353, 41/41A, 91, 57, 84, 85, 35, 35A, 39A, 39B, 79, 81, 82, 83, 93, 94, X30, X31, Q3, 5, 5A, 9, 24, 26, 50, 51, 52, 39, X45, 96, 49, 49A, 12, 47, 27, 10A, 8, 8A, 6, 15, 20, 34, 60, 65, 78, 16, 16A, Peterlee Locals, 28, 29, 61, 61A, V1, V2, V4, V5, X15, X72, Hexham Locals, AD122, 74
No 28b on that list?
TBH i surprised more of the evening stuff isnt on there. I've been getting the 27 after 8pm from outside the spoons in Gateshead ( handy) and there's never been more tha half dozen on. Same as x66 on evening a couple at most heading there and not many more heading back!
RE: Subsidised Routes - Storx - 03 Nov 2023
(03 Nov 2023, 1:49 pm)idiot wrote I really hope there not getting paid for this? All the timetables should have a symbol if any of the journey is subsidised in any part. Used to happen a few year ago why not now?
They're getting money for something on all of them, what though is unknown could be just 1 early run etc.
(03 Nov 2023, 3:06 pm)Rob44 wrote GoNorthEast
1, 351, 353, 41/41A, 91, 57, 84, 85, 35, 35A, 39A, 39B, 79, 81, 82, 83, 93, 94, X30, X31, Q3, 5, 5A, 9, 24, 26, 50, 51, 52, 39, X45, 96, 49, 49A, 12, 47, 27, 10A, 8, 8A, 6, 15, 20, 34, 60, 65, 78, 16, 16A, Peterlee Locals, 28, 29, 61, 61A, V1, V2, V4, V5, X15, X72, Hexham Locals, AD122, 74
No 28b on that list?
TBH i surprised more of the evening stuff isnt on there. I've been getting the 27 after 8pm from outside the spoons in Gateshead ( handy) and there's never been more tha half dozen on. Same as x66 on evening a couple at most heading there and not many more heading back!
Really? I'm struggling of thinking of routes that aren't on there. 90% of the routes have to be there. The general idea though is you make money during the day, then they offset the evening services. Don't believe many actually make money but if you use the bus 10 times a week and 2 times is in the evening, cut them then they'd not use it all - that's the idea behind it.
Assume the 28B is just part of the 28/29 tender. The numbers were a bit off for the Durham ones, X20 still mentioned for Langley Park for example.
RE: Subsidised Routes - Ambassador - 03 Nov 2023
It would be interesting to see passenger numbers v investment,
I can’t see the TaxiBuses being anything but a massive drain
RE: Subsidised Routes - Storx - 03 Nov 2023
(03 Nov 2023, 8:44 pm)Ambassador wrote It would be interesting to see passenger numbers v investment,
I can’t see the TaxiBuses being anything but a massive drain
Agreed there, the £800 a day on the W1/W2 which cart around fresh air most the time must be up there aswell.
RE: Subsidised Routes - Ambassador - 03 Nov 2023
(03 Nov 2023, 9:28 pm)Storx wrote Agreed there, the £800 a day on the W1/W2 which cart around fresh air most the time must be up there aswell.
I reckon you could just have a taxi on demand for the TB services and still save a fortune. Like the old dial a ride