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Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Printable Version

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Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 13 Sep 2013

Just seen an interesting quote attributed to John McDonnell MP
"Privatising public utlities is like slaughtering geese that lay golden eggs, for a one day fry up"


Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Adrian - 13 Sep 2013

(13 Sep 2013, 1:50 pm)Andreos1 wrote Just seen an interesting quote attributed to John McDonnell MP
"Privatising public utlities is like slaughtering geese that lay golden eggs, for a one day fry up"

He's right mind. I always enjoy John McDonnell speeches. One of the few real socialists left in the Labour Party.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 13 Sep 2013

(13 Sep 2013, 3:43 pm)aureolin wrote He's right mind. I always enjoy John McDonnell speeches. One of the few real socialists left in the Labour Party.

He is right, couldn't agree with you any more.
Never seen him speak, although he has caused a few controversies with his IRA comments.

The legend that is Dennis Skinner is the one I look forward to seeing.
"Royal Mail for sale. Queen's head privatised." is one of my favourite quotes and quite relevant at the moment.

The child of Thatcher has gone down the path she didn't.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MurdnunoC - 13 Sep 2013

An opportunity to post more Skinnerisms courtesy of Wikiquotes

Queen's Speech Quips

Skinner has traditionally cracked jokes, usually about the Royal Family, during the annual Queen's Speech ceremony. He does this upon the arrival of Black Rod (the symbol of Royal authority in the House of Commons) to summon MPs to hear the Queen's speech in the House of Lords. The best known, according to the New Statesman and other sources, are as follows (http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/05/black-rod-skinner-queen-beast):

*In 1987, he said "Tell her to sell up!", a reference to the tightening of belts in the United Kingdom.
*In 1988, he greeted the sight of Black Rod with the statement "Hey up, Here comes puss in boots!", to a great deal of laughing in the chamber.
*In 1990, he quipped "It tolls for thee Maggie", a reference to Margaret Thatcher's impending departure.
*In 1991, on arrival of Black Rod quipping "I bet he drinks Carling Black Label"; a reference to an advertising campaign at the time.
*In 1992, he said to Black Rod "Tell her to pay her taxes"; at the time, this was an important political issue.
*In 1997, he shouted "New Labour, New Black Rod".
A reference to Labour's election campaign slogan "New Labour, New Britain".
*In 2000, he shouted out "Tell her to read the Guardian!" - the Guardian newspaper was campaigning at the time to repeal various laws relating to the monarchy.
*In 2001, he said to new Black Rod Michael Willcocks "You're nowt but a midget!!" to much laughter in the chamber.
*In 2003, he suggested that the Speaker "bar the doors" after Black Rod had arrived, a practice that is used to block late-arriving MPs from casting their votes after the division bells have been sounded. After the command he also said "Did she lock the door behind her!" to laughter from other MPs. The tongue-in-cheek suggestion by Skinner was scoffed at by Speaker Michael Martin.
*In 2005, he asked Black Rod "Has she brought Camilla with her?" to much giggling from other MP's. There were reports that The Queen and Camilla were not on the best of terms.
*In 2006, Skinner responded to Black Rod's invitation with "Have you got Helen Mirren on standby?", in reference to the portrayal by Helen Mirren of Elizabeth II in the 2006 film, The Queen. The BBC political commentator Huw Edwards called the quip "cheap but funny".
*In 2007, he asked "Who shot the harriers?" referring to a recent event in Sandringham, where two protected hen harriers had been shot near a royal property. Prince Harry and a friend had been questioned by police over the incident.
*In 2008, he asked, "any Tory moles at the Palace?", referring to the recent arrest of Conservative MP Damian Green in connection with an investigation about him receiving confidential information from a civil servant at the Home Office who was formerly a Conservative Party candidate. To which Black Rod quipped, "I shall miss you, Dennis", receiving laughter from other MPs. The 2008 State Opening of Parliament was Michael Willcocks' last as Black Rod.
*In 2009, he stated "Royal Expenses are on the way", a reference to the parliamentary expenses scandal.
*In 2010, he stated "No royal commissions this week" in reference to the recent newspaper story in the News of the World which revealed that the former Duchess of York had taken cash payments for introducing businessmen to the Duke of York. Interestingly this time, whether through error or purpose, he made his one-liner in the middle of the Yeoman Usher's (who was filling in for an ill Black Rod) speech. To which the Yeoman Usher replied at the end, "Thank you, Dennis".
*In 2012, he shouted "Jubilee year, double-dip recession, what a start" to the evident annoyance of many MPs on the government benches.
*In 2013, he exclaimed "Royal Mail for sale, Queen's head privatised" in reference to the governments plans to sell off sections of the Royal Mail and Margaret Thatcher's comment when she was Prime Minister that she wouldn't privatise the Royal Mail as she was not "prepared to have the Queen's head privatised".

Other Quotes

"every now and then you see the arrogance of Cameron, and that comes through every so often. It is the Bullingdon Club. When they were sat down – him and Gideon [Obsorne's birth name] – and he says: 'You know what we really want, Gideon? Every weekend, after we've roughed up one of those hotels, we need an army of volunteers to come in and clean it all up.' And Gideon says: 'Yeah, we could call it the Big Society" interview with ,Decca Aitkenhead - The Guardian, (Sunday 17 June 2012) - http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/17/dennis-skinner-formed-pits-war

"Tell the House of Lords to go to hell."
During the 2004 fox hunting debate in the House of Commons.
Department of the Official Report (Hansard), House of Commons, Westminster (2004-09-15). House of Commons Hansard Debate - 15 September 2004. Publications.parliament.uk. Retrieved on 2010-04-29.

"I thought you were taking Marquand with you."
Heckling Roy Jenkins in 1976 when, during his farewell speech to the Parliamentary Labour Party before leaving to become President of the European Commission, he said: "I leave this party without rancour". Jenkins, who famously pronounced his Rs like Ws, left the Commons at the same time as David Marquand, the MP for Ashfield and a close ally of Jenkins.

"Does my hon. Friend agree that when millions of parents and others in Britain are wrestling with the problems of drug abuse among young people, and when the Government are trying to do their level best to tackle those problems, it is a sad state of affairs that the Tory Opposition receive £1 million a year from one of the biggest drug runners in the west?" [Members of the House: "Oh."] Is it not high time that the Leader of the Opposition had the guts to get rid of him?"
Referring to allegations about Michael Ashcroft at the time

"When I called the Right Hon. Member for Plymouth, Devonport (Dr. Owen) a pompous sod, Mr. Speaker said to me, 'You had better withdraw that'. I said I would withdraw 'pompous', but said, Mr. Speaker 'That's not the word I'm looking for.' There was laughter in the House and everyone thought that I had hit the nail on the head. I thought that that was a real parliamentary triumph, but Mr. Speaker thought differently. He said, 'Off you go,' and I did not get a chance to reply."
Department of the Official Report (Hansard), House of Commons, Westminster. House of Commons Hansard Debate - 28 February 1992. Publications.parliament.uk. Retrieved on 2010-04-29.

"The Hon. Gentleman is making pretty heavy weather of the fact that he was kicked out of this gentleman's club for 20 days. I call it a gentlemen's club, but it is known as the mother of Parliaments, although only about 42 women are allowed in here. The Hon. Gentleman is complaining that he got 20 days. His real problem is the fact that he is not the Tory Party candidate at the next election - and that has nothing to do with what happened in this place.

I have been kicked out of this place about seven times, but I did not have any chance to explain. No one said to me, "Dennis, will you explain why you said that the Right Hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit) was lining his pockets when he picked up that non-executive directorship of British Telecom?" I would have loved to tell everyone all about that, but Mr. Speaker said, "On your bike - early bath," and off I had to go.

I accused the noble Lord, Lord Pym, when he was a Member of this House, of being the Minister for Unemployment because there were nearly 2 million people on the scrap heap - that pile of human misery known as the dole queue. Again, I was not able to make a speech before Mr. Speaker sent me out.

Those were all genuine statements that I had to make. The Hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. Browne) was kicked out for 20 days because he lined his pockets with about £50,000 and did not put it in the register as he is supposed to do, and now he is whingeing but I reckon he got away with blue murder!"

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the 1970s and a lot of the 1980s, we would have thanked our lucky stars in the coalfield areas for growth of 1.75 per cent.? The only thing growing then were the lines of coke in front of boy George and the rest of them.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/vo051208/debtext/51208-04.htm

She has been let off because she is a Tory.
Said because the Deputy Speaker had allowed Theresa May to make a comment about the Prime Minister allegedly lying to the House because he interpreted it in a context Skinner didn't agree with.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/vo060420/debtext/60420-05.htm

During PMQS on 25th April 2012 regarding Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt (UK politician) resigning of his special advisor Adam Smith said - "When posh boys are in trouble they sack the servants"



RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MrFozz - 14 Sep 2013

When I heard about Royal Mail beong sold off, the first thing I thought of was Dennis Skinner...quite a funny man lol


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MurdnunoC - 14 Sep 2013

(14 Sep 2013, 8:16 am)fozzovmurton wrote When I heard about Royal Mail beong sold off, the first thing I thought of was Dennis Skinner...quite a funny man lol

Yes, Dennis will be sorely missed when he eventually leaves the House of Commons. He is a one of a dying breed.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MrFozz - 14 Sep 2013

Definately is, he is probably the last of a Labour Element that can call themselves true socialists, because lets face it, todays Labour Party must be unrecognisable from the one he was voted into...

You know it has changed completely when Margaret Thatcher once claimed her greatest legacy was New Labour


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - gtom - 14 Sep 2013

I'm torn on this.

Having seen Royal Mail behind the curtain so to speak, its a tought job for anyone coming into the business. It needs massive investment, it hasn't had any for some years. It's technology is light years behind the likes of DHL, Deutsche Post, FedEx etc etc

But to be honest, I see no reason or need for the state to fund a monopoly on traditional mail in the 21st Century. Do residential areas need a daily delivery? Perhaps, perhaps not.

I'm just not sure on the Government's motive at this stage when Royal Mail reports a £440m profit.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Dan - 17 Sep 2013

W'hey... This was a topic brought up by my Business teacher today and I was the only one who had a clue! Wink

Wouldn't have had a clue without this thread!


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 17 Sep 2013

(17 Sep 2013, 10:37 am)Daniel wrote W'hey... This was a topic brought up by my Business teacher today and I was the only one who had a clue! Wink

Wouldn't have had a clue without this thread!

To be fair, it didn't take off the way I thought it might.

Hope you threw in a few Skinnerisms into the debate?


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Dan - 17 Sep 2013

(17 Sep 2013, 10:38 am)Andreos1 wrote To be fair, it didn't take off the way I thought it might.

Hope you threw in a few Skinnerisms into the debate?

The conversation soon died when the teacher realised it was just me who knew anything about it..and even then my knowledge wasn't particularly great! :p


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MrFozz - 17 Sep 2013

Dennis Skinner talking about Lady T on the day PMQ's was suspended for Parliament to pay tribute to Thatcher...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4mcOUBt8II

Haven't seen it for a while, but I don't think he was singing her praises...

The best Skinner out down has to be 2012 which has already been posted

Jubilee Year, Double Dip Recession, What a Start Big Grin...

Personally I think he should make a comment about Prince Andrew next time round after he was recently held at gunpoint by Police in the Palace Grounds Big Grin


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 19 Sep 2013

Another old school politician.

He doesn't tweet often, but has tonight.
Just looked down his feed and found this insightful tweet.
(Check out the date too)

@TonyBenn 19 Aug 09
On the picket line today Postal workers told
me they beieve the Government is
deliberately trying to destroy the Post Office.
I agree



RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - gtom - 19 Sep 2013

(19 Sep 2013, 8:15 pm)Andreos1 wrote Another old school politician.

He doesn't tweet often, but has tonight.
Just looked down his feed and found this insightful tweet.
(Check out the date too)

How is that insightful?

Socialist policies continuously fail. Skinner and Benn are dinosaurs. New left has even abandoned them


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MurdnunoC - 19 Sep 2013

(19 Sep 2013, 10:20 pm)gtomlinson wrote How is that insightful?

Skinner and Benn are dinosaurs.

I quite like Skinner but have never been particularly convinced by Benn's supposed brilliance.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 19 Sep 2013

(19 Sep 2013, 10:20 pm)gtomlinson wrote How is that insightful?

I'm not going to get into the type of debate I had with eeazypeazy about definitions of words, but 4 years ago he agreed with strikers that the Government were ruining the Post Office.

There has been no investment, but Royal Mail profits are up, with 90% of it coming from the Post Office.

The money made has not been re-invested, cuts have been made, experienced & long serving members of staff have been encouraged into early retirement and agency staff taken on.

Assets stripped, delivered on reduced costs, meaning profits increase and when the for sale sign goes up - there are a few extra digits added to the price.

It was a clear example of the goose being fattened up for Christmas and look what is looming now?


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MrFozz - 20 Sep 2013

(19 Sep 2013, 10:39 pm)AdamY wrote I quite like Skinner but have never been particularly convinced by Benn's supposed brilliance.

I also quite like Skinner, if only for his outspoken opinions, but he is becoming of a crusty now, he is about 82/83 now and his beliefs are probably nowhere close to what the Labour Party has now become, but the Beast of Bolsover will probably leave Parliament the day 6 men come to carry him out in a box


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Adrian - 20 Sep 2013

(20 Sep 2013, 4:42 pm)fozzovmurton wrote I also quite like Skinner, if only for his outspoken opinions, but he is becoming of a crusty now, he is about 82/83 now and his beliefs are probably nowhere close to what the Labour Party has now become, but the Beast of Bolsover will probably leave Parliament the day 6 men come to carry him out in a box

Labour Party has forgotten it's roots. That's the problem. Long gone are the days they'd look after the workers. Not in a million years would you have thought they'd set the wheels in motion and complete the off shoring of government jobs to India.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MurdnunoC - 20 Sep 2013

(20 Sep 2013, 6:03 pm)aureolin wrote Labour Party has forgotten it's roots. That's the problem. Long gone are the days they'd look after the workers. Not in a million years would you have thought they'd set the wheels in motion and complete the off shoring of government jobs to India.

And when were those days exactly?

Labour have a long history of denouncing socialist tendencies and vanquishing the 'revolutionary element' of their party ever since they were first elected to government in 1924 (and arguably before).


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Adrian - 20 Sep 2013

(20 Sep 2013, 6:20 pm)AdamY wrote And when were those days exactly?

Labour have a long history of denouncing socialist tendencies and vanquishing the 'revolutionary element' of their party ever since they were first elected to government in 1924 (and arguably before).

A lot of folk, myself included, were always brought up to vote Labour. They were always the best option we had. I've been a member since 16, but even I doubt that now.

I wasn't old enough to vote in 97, but whenever I speak to people about it, I always hear that there was a real buzz in the air in the mid-90s. The thought of a Labour government getting in and the Tories finally being kicked out of the door. Blair and New Labour had won a lot of people over. Even those that had even declared never to vote Labour again. In the end though? I do feel we massively progressed as a nation, but at what cost has this come?

You could argue that this coalition is hitting people harder than Thatcher ever did. But even with that being said, there is no buzz about Labour any more. They have not come up with a single credible policy since 2010. Miliband asked at the TUC if he is for or against austerity - couldn't give a straight answer.


Re: RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - MrFozz - 20 Sep 2013

A lot of folk, myself included, were always brought up to vote Labour. They were always the best option we had. I've been a member since 16, but even I doubt that now.

Most of this area was brought up to vote Labour, our Parents and Grandparents were brought up on Labour, it was drilled into us to vote Labour and I was especially told, if you Vote Tory your selling your soul to beelzebub himself and was always told if I vote Tory all my ancestors would rise from the grave, haunt me so they can snuff it all over again. I remember my great granny saying about Thatcher in her words 'I dont condone terrorism, but I wish the IRA had of blown her up in Brighton' this is a woman who hated catholics as well and would take offence if you called her a communist even though she thought the sun shone out of Arthur Scargills arse.

I wasn't old enough to vote in 97, but whenever I speak to people about it, I always hear that there was a real buzz in the air in the mid-90s. The thought of a Labour government getting in and the Tories finally being kicked out of the door. Blair and New Labour had won a lot of people over. Even those that had even declared never to vote Labour again. In the end though? I do feel we massively progressed as a nation, but at what cost has this come?

I remember the era well, not only for the political changes, New Labour took on a life of it's own and there was never going to be any other result than a New Labour Landslide in 1997, Tony Blair came along at the right time, and at that time Tony Blair appealed to milllions of us after 18 years and 4 consecutive Tory governments, he played the charming fella game, David Cameron did the same a few years ago, trying to appeal to people who usually would not vote for him, was it Cameron who came out with something like 'hug-a-hoodie' and the whole 'call me Dave' thing, my dad would say of Tony Blair 'He may be wearing tie, but deep down he is a tory'. I was also ineligible to vote as I was only a few weeks shy of my 15th and I remember election that year for all the wrong reasons.

You could argue that this coalition is hitting people harder than Thatcher ever did. But even with that being said, there is no buzz about Labour any more. They have not come up with a single credible policy since 2010. Miliband asked at the TUC if he is for or against austerity - couldn't give a straight answer.

I think his brother would have been a better leader, David had held quite important ministerial posts and I think a lot of people saw him as a more prominsing leader than Ed and I think many saw him as a natural choice for the leadership. As for the coalition hitting us harder than the Tatcherite Gov't, I dont know, I cannot really remember, I was too young, but I think Maggie ruined more lives especially during 84-85 when Thatcher saw through the promise she made in the 70's to 'destroy the NUM after the Heath government was brought down in about '72(another story for another day Big Grin) so on that part, I dont think Dave and his puppy dog bitch have been too bad on that front.

One I thing I do think though, it may just be that Nick Clegg holds all the cards again after the next election, he wants another coalition, but he would say that, it is the only way for him and his party to have any kind of power. Also, something that would not surprise me is UKIP getting close to the Lib Dems in the number of votes, and it may be UKIP find themselves in the 'Nick Clegg kingmaker role next time round' that probably wont happen but UKIP have made massive gains recently and they may be a credible threat to Clegg and his band of merry bitches.

It makes me laugh sometimes when people ask me who I vote or I ask people who they vote, if people decide to tell conversation normally goes like this

'Who did you vote for'
'Labour'
'Why do you vote Labour'
'Dont know, guess it has been drilled into me to vote them'
'So you vote Labour because that is all you have been told to do'
'I guess'
'Is that not like a dictatorship where you are told what is expected and told what box to cross on your ballot paper'
'Good point'

Where I live I am in the Easington Constituency and I could put my dog up for election for the Labour Party and she would by a huge majority lol


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 06 Oct 2013

According to Chuka Umunna this morning, the value put onto the Royal Mail by the Tories is significantly lower than it should be - they have failed to reflect or take into account the value of the land included in the sale.

A cynic may suggest the decision was a deliberate one.
After all, how many people would love to get their hands on prime real estate for peanuts?


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Adrian - 06 Oct 2013

(06 Oct 2013, 9:30 am)Andreos1 wrote According to Chuka Umunna this morning, the value put onto the Royal Mail by the Tories is significantly lower than it should be - they have failed to reflect or take into account the value of the land included in the sale.

A cynic may suggest the decision was a deliberate one.
After all, how many people would love to get their hands on prime real estate for peanuts?

Well that's well and truly devalued that statement in your first four words. Chuka Umunna appears to be Labour's "next big thing", but he's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Are they actually selling the land/estates? Surely this makes it difficult for it to be put out for tender again at the end of the PPP? The new land/estates owner would be under no obligation to sell as far as the law of the land goes. It'd make more sense for the land/estates to be leased to whoever wins the tender for the duration of that contract - a tactic that hasn't been uncommon in previous government PPPs.

It's not like we're selling Gold at a rock bottom price mind... Wink


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 06 Oct 2013

(06 Oct 2013, 10:40 am)aureolin wrote Well that's well and truly devalued that statement in your first four words. Chuka Umunna appears to be Labour's "next big thing", but he's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Are they actually selling the land/estates? Surely this makes it difficult for it to be put out for tender again at the end of the PPP? The new land/estates owner would be under no obligation to sell as far as the law of the land goes. It'd make more sense for the land/estates to be leased to whoever wins the tender for the duration of that contract - a tactic that hasn't been uncommon in previous government PPPs.

It's not like we're selling Gold at a rock bottom price mind... Wink

I am guessing some of the land will be freehold.
So if a private buyer or equity firm buys 10 sites and decides to only use 4 of them - the 6 remaining will be sold.

Obviously the private buyer/equity firm could make some serious money by selling that land, especially if the land was chucked in for free.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - citaro5284 - 10 Oct 2013

So Royal Mail shares will start trading at 330p each, and there has been a big demand for them. Lets see what they trade like through the day.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 10 Oct 2013

Easy money by the looks of it.

Another sell off by a Tory Government, that gives them an easy few quid.
It is a shame the organisation/s who ends up purchasing the Royal Mail will make even more money than the Government have done.

There are some interesting comments on the bbc website (www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24480450).


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 11 Oct 2013

Taken from twitter just now

BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking 24s

Royal Mail shares open at 456p, 36% above
offer price, at start of conditional trading on
London Stock Exchange bbc.in/1g4OTAu



RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 31 Mar 2014

Just caught a glimpse of it on the news, but it appears The Independent have a big story about the self off.

No idea what angle it has, but I have a feeling it wont be positive for us poor taxpayers.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 22 May 2014

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/royal-mail-annual-profits-jump-12-to-671m-9414815.html

Inevitable...

Sells shares for peanuts, value rises through the roof and profits jump massively.

Selling off that Golden Egg - when it could have brought millions into the public purse and spent on schemes and projects to benefit the majority, rather than the minority.


RE: Privatisation of the Royal Mail - Andreos1 - 04 Jun 2015

Gideon has announced the Government are to sell of a 30% share of the Royal Mail.

Will it ever end?

Just glad I am not his Grandma - I would be fearing for my life and worried he would sell me too!