(09 May 2014, 5:38 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote As I said initially, was just a query - but pleased adaptations have been made to take into account emergency window exits.

On the emergency door, it is obvious cuts have been made, but harder to see on an emergency window.

Pleased to have been of assistance !

The FPF seemed quite when I passed through this morning, although there was a few of them about - you just don't know who's who !!!

(09 May 2014, 8:49 pm)busman101 wrote Pleased to have been of assistance !

The FPF seemed quite when I passed through this morning, although there was a few of them about - you just don't know who's who !!!

Can't remember when I was last in Fencehouses - possibly Tuesday when I drove through.
Haven't had my FPF banner out marching up and down the street or organising chaos with 'passengers'.

I have been working down south for the majority of the week, so you wouldn't have seen me either way unfortunately.

Overheard an amusing conversation this morning which made me chuckle.

Standing in the bus station, a bus pulled in.
The three people standing next to me had the following conversation:

Guy 1: Is this the bus?
Guy 2: Nah, it's a Northern.
Lass 1: No it isn't, it is Go North East.
Guy 1: It is Go ahead, it says on the side.
Guy 2: Well the proper name is Go ahead Northern.

At no point in the 5minutes I was standing alongside them, did they mention the brand name of said route.

Whilst looking for something else, totally unrelated to public transport, I came across this quote from Scott Cook:

A brand is no longer what we tell the consumer it is – it is what consumers tell each other it is.

I'd never heard of the guy, so had a quick look on google, saw his credentials and thought it was worth sharing on here, mainly to get some discussion going on the forum again - rather than the usual, with a little bit of 'banter' thrown in.

Taking into account all of the money invested by operators and the anecdotal evidence gathered on the forum, with some members referring to a route by its brand, others by numbers - I wondered how true it was.
You maybe then need to throw the element of 'good' product versus 'bad' product in to the mix too, which when bearing in mind public transport, you realise there is more than just a brand/brand name to bear in mind.

To expand further and link the quote towards social media, how often do you see a person on one of the operators social media pages, complain about an element of the service they're paying for - for then others to jump in and agree or share similar experiences?
I have often heard a quote, referring to the expense incurred when appeasing or obtaining new customers, as opposed to the value in keeping existing ones. 10x more expensive I think it was.
This goes back to the line touched on previously about, customers sharing bad experiences - one person tells their friends (or proportion of the customer base on social media), who then share the experience with others.

The brand then becomes 'bad' and is no longer what the organisation tells the consumer.

I am not a fan of branding and I think I have mentioned it a few times, but the whole Max/Sapphire thing and the spare in Durham got me thinking.

Can anyone explain why the 22 was set up as Sapphire, yet the X12 designated Max?

(01 Jun 2015, 6:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote I am not a fan of branding and I think I have mentioned it a few times, but the whole Max/Sapphire thing and the spare in Durham got me thinking.

Can anyone explain why the 22 was set up as Sapphire, yet the X12 designated Max?

Don't know for sure but I imagine it's down to the potential growth available on each service. There's also the fact that each Sapphire bid means ANE don't have to spend any money on it, and reap the rewards of the growth. We are limited in what we can do with the X12 too by Durham University, think we are allowed one or two changes per year to the timetable and that's it.
The Durham University inter campus link is currently out to tender again I understand.

(01 Jun 2015, 7:59 pm)tyresmoke wrote Don't know for sure but I imagine it's down to the potential growth available on each service. There's also the fact that each Sapphire bid means ANE don't have to spend any money on it, and reap the rewards of the growth. We are limited in what we can do with the X12 too by Durham University, think we are allowed one or two changes per year to the timetable and that's it.
The Durham University inter campus link is currently out to tender again I understand.

Cheers!
All though the uni contributes to the X12 on the southern section of the route, I wonder if the impact has a negative element to it, north of Durham.

Stay with me on this one. I have done a lot of travelling this week and seeing as I am not one of those to fiddle with a spreadsheet whilst on the move, it gives me time to think and ponder. A dangerous thing some may say!
It will hopefully bring an old thread to life too.
 
Whilst the branding of vehicles has its fans and has supposed benefits (I am yet to be convinced of them), I wonder if the benefits of branding can be outweighed with the wear and tear on a vehicle.
If we look at the workhorses of the fleet – the Scania Solar L94UB. Some are getting on for a few years old now, maybe towards the end of their lives. However, the difference in the standard of vehicles is quite noticeable.
 
I have often commented on the state of the purple Solars. They’re in a mess and for a trip that can attract a premium of £4.10 for a journey of less than a quarter of a run, it sort of grinds a bit.
 
A fair few of the purple Solars have been on the route for the majority of their lives. They have been in the purple base for just short of 9 years and in that time, they have trooped back and forth on a route, that has its fair few fast and demanding sections. Very rarely spending time elsewhere.
Prior to the 2006 changes, a vehicle could see time elsewhere, stretching its legs on other routes, across the patch covered by its home depot.
My favourite 5213, could be on (what is now) a 35 run one day, see a spell on a Gateshead run the next and see a run out on anything else Shields had prior to its closure.
Obviously each day, it would face its own challenges, but it wouldn’t face the same challenges on a daily basis.
 
Since 2006, well – it has been painted purple a couple of times and has gone back and forth to Durham every day since. It is still going back and forth to Durham and now, is having those runs extended all the way to Shields.
Compared to 5201 – resting in the mediocrity of a floating spare, after a few years in a flowery orange livery; 5213 must be lurching (in that annoying fashion it has) towards the end.
 
I haven’t been on any of the ex-Washington Solars, since last summer when I got a 28a, over a 28 by accident – so I can’t comment on what another year has done to them after 8/9 years on a 194/M1 and then another 2/3 on a 28/28a. I can imagine though…
 
Going back in time, Chester and Sunderland Road often alternated the routes a vehicle type operated on – particularly the deckers.
Chester would send their VR’s for spell on Durham Road one week and then alternate with their Metrobuses, sending them via Old Durham Road or to South Shields the next.
The Nationals would mix it up on a 775/778, 721, 777 etc.
Sunderland Road, often mixed and matched their Metrobuses with the Atlanteans. A vehicle would see a spell on Lobley Hill, swapped with an Old Durham Road run. Bensham Bank would alternate with Durham Road later in the month.
Nor did Winlaton keep their Olympians on a 649 every day of the week, 52 weeks of the year.
 
There was also the element of interworking.
A Metrobus on a 26, would run onto several other 2x routes, before daring to pass Presto again. It would have a nice run along the length of Durham Road, face a little test on a 25 up Whinbury Road, chill out on a 28 to Kibby, stroll through the Springwell Estate on a 27 and have a lap of Allerdene on a 24 - all in a day.
Interworking doesn’t seem to happen that often now – unless a branded route has 2/3 sub-services, it isn’t going to happen until the sun sets and the branding strategy goes out of the window.
 
I know running up and down a hill every day is gonna knack me, so like anyone, I would break the monotony and do some flat running now and again. I would maybe stretch my legs by going a totally different way.
Effective branding, doesn’t allow an operator to break the monotony, the strain nor the wear and tear on the vehicle.
Eventually, the wear and tear is going to show – no matter what colour or livery is on the outside…
 
And before anyone chews their gums about anti-GNE bias, it isn’t.
Although I have used a wide variety of operators across the North East and other parts of the country, I am more than happy holding my hands up and saying I am not as familiar with the fleets of those operators who don’t trundle back and forth at the end of my street.
The comments about branding and vehicles being stuck on the same (potentially arduous) runs day in, day out, still apply – regardless of the operator.

Yeah, logic dictates there's got to be some truth in this, although many operators may choose to base a part of their maintenance/ inspection periods on a mileage element, rather than just a straightforward 'standard' max 21 days.

Using this sort of observation, and whilst not as pronounced, stagecoach's branded 100 and x34 buses must have a similar situation, given their high mph sections? Will be interesting to see whether the cascaded Tayside e400 ultimately head to the x34 to displace its current stock, or if they are utilised elsewhere in the fleet.

Most buses in, say, Gateshead, are going to end up with a hilly run, regardless, though.

And you can equally argue that those routes with long, fast inter-urban stretches, like the prince bishops, pronto and even angel already have a mix of different paces and challenges on their journey - they spend as much time in nose to tail town or city traffic as they do stretching their legs. I should imagine that if you compared buses of similar mileage, rather than age, those doing long distance routes would probably be in better condition than those doing mostly stop start routes at fairly low speeds.

(07 Aug 2015, 6:57 pm)JakeSavage wrote Yeah, logic dictates there's got to be some truth in this, although many operators may choose to base a part of their maintenance/ inspection periods on a mileage element, rather than just a straightforward 'standard' max 21 days.

Using this sort of observation, and whilst not as pronounced, stagecoach's branded 100 and x34 buses must have a similar situation, given their high mph sections? Will be interesting to see whether the cascaded Tayside e400 ultimately head to the x34 to displace its current stock, or if they are utilised elsewhere in the fleet.

I can only imagine the more or less 365 day a year operation of the 100 will have some affect on the vehicles. Obviously the X34 only runs 6 days a week, so by virtue the wear and tear should be less - providing the deckers aren't used every Sunday on another service.

The maintenance/inspection periods may be on a mileage element, but the 'in and out/continuous' operation of some routes, will mean interior cleaning and tidying can't happen.  

Looking at another element, do passenger demographics have an impact on the interior condition?

(07 Aug 2015, 7:10 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Most buses in, say, Gateshead, are going to end up with a hilly run, regardless, though.

And you can equally argue that those routes with long, fast inter-urban stretches, like the prince bishops, pronto and even angel already have a mix of different paces and challenges on their journey - they spend as much time in nose to tail town or city traffic as they do stretching their legs. I should imagine that if you compared buses of similar mileage, rather than age, those doing long distance routes would probably be in better condition than those doing mostly stop start routes at fairly low speeds.

5201 and 5213 are both of a similar age and until 5201 was shifted into a spare covering a range of routes, I imagine both had a similar mileage - based on the routes (56 and 20) they were allocated to for the majority of the last 9 years. 
It would be interesting to know how many clicks they have had though.

5201 will have had the steadier, slower and flatter (excluding Old Durham Road) runs out on the 56 versus 5213 on the 20 and is in much better nick.

Thinking about the ex-London deckers, reliability and performance may be up for debate (and often is), but rattles and squeaks less so.

I take your point about the hilly nature of Gateshead. Maybe the old Gateshead Durham Road 2x locals were a nice release to the hills of Deckham, Bensham and Lobley Hill?

While I do like some of the branding in our region, I do think some of them are pointless. It seems there was a time when Go North East were intent on branding nearly every service. Take the ''Kingfisher'', which later became the ''Pulse'', and is now brand-less. There are some other examples of this, I think it's a sign that Go North East are trying to scrap a few brands/improve them with updated liveries. The ''Toon Link'' and ''Coast & Country'' are two in particular that I can think of.

Personally, I like what Stagecoach have done with their X47 branded ALX300s. With simple tag lines and a few vinyls, it is easy to distinguish an X47-branded bus from a corporate-liveried example. I think they do something similar at Brighton & Hove, where a few large vinyls on the bus make it easy to tell which brand it is, while it maintains the corporate livery to some extent. I think Lothian Buses have something similar, with a red swoosh at the front of some deckers and then the classic madder and white livery. I personally think some of Go North East's brands should be more like this, where a corporate livery is still recognisable but the brand of the vehicle is too. I'm not trying to say the brands aren't good in any way, some of the more recent brands are outstanding in my opinion, but I'd like to see if this would work. It seems to work fine for some of the other operators who do similar. Another pro to this, is that with just minor branding; I think allocations can be slightly more carefree. I'm not trying to suggest that branded buses should always be off-route because they look closely like corporate-liveried buses, as the whole point of branded vehicles is to keep them on one route and one route only, their own. What I'm trying to say is that with just a few vinyls, a branded bus can look very much like a corporate vehicle, and such a fuss might not be kicked up. How many times have people gone into orbit about a ''Sapphire'' appearing on a ''MAX'' route? A bit random but hopefully somebody knows what I'm trying to say.

I'm not usually one to post in these debates, but I thought I may as well.

(10 Aug 2015, 11:27 am)R852 PRG wrote While I do like some of the branding in our region, I do think some of them are pointless. It seems there was a time when Go North East were intent on branding nearly every service. Take the ''Kingfisher'', which later became the ''Pulse'', and is now brand-less. There are some other examples of this, I think it's a sign that Go North East are trying to scrap a few brands/improve them with updated liveries. The ''Toon Link'' and ''Coast & Country'' are two in particular that I can think of.

Personally, I like what Stagecoach have done with their X47 branded ALX300s. With simple tag lines and a few vinyls, it is easy to distinguish an X47-branded bus from a corporate-liveried example. I think they do something similar at Brighton & Hove, where a few large vinyls on the bus make it easy to tell which brand it is, while it maintains the corporate livery to some extent. I think Lothian Buses have something similar, with a red swoosh at the front of some deckers and then the classic madder and white livery. I personally think some of Go North East's brands should be more like this, where a corporate livery is still recognisable but the brand of the vehicle is too. I'm not trying to say the brands aren't good in any way, some of the more recent brands are outstanding in my opinion, but I'd like to see if this would work. It seems to work fine for some of the other operators who do similar. Another pro to this, is that with just minor branding; I think allocations can be slightly more carefree. I'm not trying to suggest that branded buses should always be off-route because they look closely like corporate-liveried buses, as the whole point of branded vehicles is to keep them on one route and one route only, their own. What I'm trying to say is that with just a few vinyls, a branded bus can look very much like a corporate vehicle, and such a fuss might not be kicked up. How many times have people gone into orbit about a ''Sapphire'' appearing on a ''MAX'' route? A bit random but hopefully somebody knows what I'm trying to say.

I'm not usually one to post in these debates, but I thought I may as well.

What would GNE's brands look like if it was incorporated into the corporate livery.... I'd actually like to see the Hedingham livery for GNE. It's simple but effective.

Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today

She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.

Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.

(04 Apr 2016, 9:06 am)Andreos1 wrote Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today

She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.

Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.

Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week.  He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due.  Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'.  And not just older people either.

(04 Apr 2016, 9:06 am)Andreos1 wrote Just been chatting to a woman in the office I am in today

She was talking about how she had to get the 639 at some point over the weekend.

Appreciate you can lead a horse to water and can't make it drink - but she was totally oblivious to branding and route number changes since the 639 ceased to exist however many years ago it was.

(06 Apr 2016, 11:44 am)Chris wrote Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week.  He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due.  Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'.  And not just older people either.

Similarly, I've heard people refer to the Red Kites services as the 745 some 16 years after that route number became obsolete.

(06 Apr 2016, 11:44 am)Chris wrote Funnily enough I had a similar thing with a friend the other week.  He text me to ask me what time the 639 was due.  Similarly, a lot of people in my local area still refer to 'The Northern'.  And not just older people either.

(06 Apr 2016, 12:33 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Similarly, I've heard people refer to the Red Kites services as the 745 some 16 years after that route number became obsolete.

Whilst eating a packet of Opal Fruits and heading to the shops to buy some Oil of Olay?
Hope they remembered to video Northern Life!

I wonder what point in time, we will see people refer to products or services by the names marketing guru's have decided they're called?
The mind boggles as to how much money will have been spent in that time.

My friend stills calls the X21 the OK Travel.

Charles

(06 Apr 2016, 12:45 pm)Charles41 wrote My friend stills calls the X21 the OK Travel.

Charles

Now that is below the belt Charles 

I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

(06 Apr 2016, 7:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

I really like that name haha

(06 Apr 2016, 7:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

I'm impressed, to be fair. I could identify the vehicle type without even looking at the fleet numbers next to them.

We'll have him in the marketing department in no time!

Aye. It's certainly not the worst design I've seen. I wonder how the other brand-critics on here will rate it?

(06 Apr 2016, 7:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

Never mind the picture, what about the rest of the Early Learning Centre (?) Etch a sketch stampers?

(06 Apr 2016, 7:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

Mind BLM, you draw a canny bus 

(06 Apr 2016, 7:20 pm)Dan wrote I'm impressed, to be fair. I could identify the vehicle type without even looking at the fleet numbers next to them.

We'll have him in the marketing department in no time!

That would be his dream work experience, I think!

(06 Apr 2016, 7:26 pm)Andreos1 wrote Never mind the picture, what about the rest of the Early Learning Centre (?) Etch a sketch stampers?

Hah! There's 3 sets of them, lurking around somewhere. My favourite magnets are the human genome ones on my freezer (I did sciency things with my brain in a former life, so they appeal to me very much!) i threatened husband with unspeakable things when he messed them all up.

(06 Apr 2016, 7:33 pm)citaro5284 wrote Mind BLM, you draw a canny bus 

There's no end to my hidden talents

And yes, I like his idea, actually. I've seen far worse. He was looking at pictures of the transdev catch 22, yesterday and I could help but wonder what idiot thought of that. I'm no marketeer, but surely a good brand is one that sounds positive and once you get past the play on words, "Catch 22" is anything but.

(06 Apr 2016, 7:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

The Names really catchy! I like the design too. His first try at designing? Or I bet there's tones round the house haha

(07 Apr 2016, 12:23 am)South Tyne Lad wrote The Names really catchy! I like the design too. His first try at designing? Or I bet there's tones round the house haha

There's piles of his pictures everywhere!

(06 Apr 2016, 7:17 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I think someone has too much time on his hands aspirations.

Haha, how old is he?