North East Buses

Article in the Hexham Courant today -

http://www.hexhamcourant.co.uk/news/news...rPath=home

The 685 is a jointly-operated service so thought best to mention it here rather than in the operator threads.

Is it just me who doesn't understand where some of this moaning comes from? For such a long distance route, I don't think the occasional 10 minute delay is anything to shout about at all. I've found myself regularly waiting much longer than this for a local bus service on a far shorter route!

For a route that is in competition with the train and other buses between Hexham and Newcastle, it might just not be economical to insert an extra bus into the timetable.

Going from the article, a problem journey appears to be the 0745 from Newcastle. This trip is operated by Arriva and I think they run the 685 from their Jesmond depot, and this journey will have come straight from there. Pleasing to see that Arriva are aware and working to resolve this though.

I've never travelled on the route myself, but I think it would be too much of an ask to expect every bus to operate to timetable when you take into consideration the mileage these coaches are put up to.

Being an EU rota worked route, the first journey shouldn't run off nothing else but it could be an issue with getting the driver to Eldon Sq in time to operate the 0745 journey? This is assuming the bus runs the X85 inbound first, which it may not.

The 0745 is operated after the 0700 X85, which often gets caught in traffic on the West Road heading into Newcastle.

As a brand new member, I haven't had time to read in (guests cannot read threads), but I am interested to see the progress of the 685 service (and whether it will survive the onslaught from GoNorthEast with their X84/X85 services).

The Arriva 685 service is frequently delayed or occasionally no-show and tickets are not transferable to the Stagecoach-run services, so it seems preferable for passengers to use the GoNorthEast service (which is more frequent).

How long will Arriva persist, I wonder?

I was in the Hexham area today, and just by standing in the bus station for ten minutes around the time both one of Go North East's services and the 685 service were due, it was quite fascinating to hear how much discussion was actually going on in regards to the two different services.

A group of middle-aged women (I imagine they were actually fare paying customers, rather than pensioners with bus passes) were discussing which bus they were going to get, and one said, "That one has an X in front of the number, that means it is an express service", which gained a positive response from the other women at the bus stop. Another chimed in with, "Yes, but it's quite similar to the 685 and gets into Eldon Square in about the same time". The woman who originally mentioned the 'X' in the number responded, "Yeah, well... That's if it turns up."

A man who was lurking around came over and joined them and said, "The Go North East one has newer buses with Wi-Fi, that one always turns up on time".


I left the bus station before I could see which service they did indeed get on, but their conversation was rather intriguing indeed. It's not a conversation I'd expect of general members of the public, and for me - whose favourite bus operator out of "the big three" is Go North East - it was great to hear how much positive feedback the "Tynedalexpress" was receiving. It also fascinated me to hear that members of the public thought Go North East's buses were newer, when in fact both Arriva and Stagecoach are both allocating newer vehicles.
I haven't seen much of the daytime loadings, but the first few journeys of the day (both on weekdays and Saturdays) have been very good indeed, as well as a few evening services which I've seen. I have not noticed a significant decrease in the passenger numbers on the "TEN" either, which is great.


I do wonder how much custom has been taken away from the 685 though. With the re-numbering of the service, the ever-changing allocation of buses (be it Pulsars or OmniCitys with Arriva, or indeed the Stagecoach liveried Enviros now allocated), I'd love to know if their passenger numbers have decreased.

I have never been to Hexham in my life, but if I was a Passenger living in that area I know who I would travel with, and the would be Go North East, I don't see how the 685 can even compete with the 10/X84/X85 when Go North East are offering the following Ticket Options with the Bonus of Free Wifi and a Bus Service which turns up on Time, and clearly as Dan Mentioned that Passengers in Hexham are Praising which Go North East are giving them.

Ten Weekly Saver - £14.60

7 days unlimited travel on the TEN and Toon Link 11 buses between Greenside, Crawcrook, Ryton, Blaydon and Newcastle
Toon Link 32 buses between Blaydon Bus Station and Newcastle

Ten Weekly Saver Plus - £21.80

7 days unlimited travel on the TEN and Toon Link 11 between Hexham, Corbridge, Branch End, Prudhoe, Ryton, Blaydon and Newcastle.
Toon Link 32 buses between Blaydon Bus Station and Newcastle
Valid on Tynedalexpress X84 / X85

whereas Arriva are offering - Info from 685 Timetable

Day Ticket: Adult £7.30 - Child £5.00 - Concessions £5.50 - Family Two Zone Triple Ticket valid Newcastle to Hexham £13.00

Regionwide Weekly Saver £26.00 - Family Two Zone Triple Ticket valid Newcastle to Hexham £21.50

No doubt prices are same for Stagecoach as it's a Joint Operation, Overall from a Passenger Perspective, I would say you get better Value for Money using Go North East.

I cannot find the details of the Stagecoach fares between Newcastle and Hexham for comparison, but I believe that they are different to those charged by Arriva (I've heard mutterings from those passengers who have to pay) and tickets are not transferable between Arriva and Stagecoach.

Arriva tickets are definitely not negotiable on GNE services (and likewise).

Stagecoach have always required passengers with free passes to state their destination whereas Arriva (and GNE) 'ticket through to the end of the route'.

Stagecoach have for some considerable time now split the route into sections (though with through-ticketing and no change of vehicle) and operate without tachographs, something that Arriva have just recently started to adopt.

Passenger unrest seems to be centred on Haydon Bridge (which also gets an infrequent service from Northern Rail) as well as residents of Gilsland who have now been disenfranchised I believe.

Relevant to the current discussion, so I thought I'd share a photograph I took earlier today with both 685s together. Haven't seen one like it before, and was quite a good photo opportunity.
With thanks to @eezypeazy who assisted in the photo's caption, as seen on the original photo here.

Two 685s at the same terminus?

I wouldn't have thought that there would be an overlap?

Edited to add:-
I've just looked at the timetable, and, indeed they depart ten minutes apart and run in tandem to Hexham. How many passengers want to travel from Newcastle to Hexham on a Saturday, leaving before 9am and arriving around 9:30?

(11 Jan 2014, 8:57 pm)G-CPTN wrote [ -> ]Two 685s at the same terminus?

I wouldn't have thought that there would be an overlap?

On Saturdays, Arriva operate a short 85 service which terminates at Hexham. This departs Eldon Square at 0835.
The normal full-route 685 service departs Eldon Square at 0845.

Just the Arriva driver being a bit of a div and putting the wrong display up :p

(11 Jan 2014, 8:57 pm)G-CPTN wrote [ -> ]Edited to add:-
I've just looked at the timetable, and, indeed they depart ten minutes apart and run in tandem to Hexham. How many passengers want to travel from Newcastle to Hexham on a Saturday, leaving before 9am and arriving around 9:30?

Well they're certainly spoilt for choice!

GNE 10 at 0830, ANE 85 at 0835, GNE X84 at 0840, SNW 685 at 0845, GNE 10 at 0900 and GNE X85 at 0910!

Does show just how silly the competition is getting...

I see that the short service is to position a vehicle at Hexham for the return to Newcastle @9:27 (there being no 8am service from Carlisle)

What kind of a service is that? (and do they regret losing the Hexham depot?)

(11 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm)G-CPTN wrote [ -> ]I see that the short service is to position a vehicle at Hexham for the return to Newcastle @9:27 (there being no 8am service from Carlisle)

What kind of a service is that? (and do they regret losing the Hexham depot?)

Quite an interesting thought.

I can't help but feel all of this could have been avoided if Arriva didn't decide to create war though. Due to service alterations by Arriva with a similar service and Arriva having the upper-hand due to connections to other Arriva buses in all locations served by the "The OK Expressway" OK1, Go North East were forced to withdraw the OK1 on the basis that it wasn't generating enough revenue.

I don't think the "Tynedalexpress" would have come about if the OK1 was retained to this day. Go North East know they have the upper-hand in Hexham because of the connections they can provide with other services and of course the reports of the 685 being "Britain's worst bus service" (believe that claim was made in a Hexham-based newspaper?) made GNE realise there was a potential gap in the market.

In my eyes, GNE have kicked ANE (and SNW) while they're down. ANE/SNW have already made service alterations (notably removing the hour-long layover which debatably helped with reliability) and both operators have removed coaches from their 685 operation. Anyone else notice all promotion said how the "Tynedalexpress" was a 'low floor operation' when it first came about in September? A dig and a half, that one was!

I do wonder how long ANE/SNW will keep up the 685 before it starts making a loss...

(11 Jan 2014, 9:27 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I do wonder how long ANE/SNW will keep up the 685 before it starts making a loss...

A thought that I have been having for some time and why I enrolled here to see what the scuttlebutt was.

(11 Jan 2014, 9:27 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I do wonder how long ANE/SNW will keep up the 685 before it starts making a loss...

It probably already is. It's not subsidised and by the way things are going, Arriva aren't acting as if they want to keep it.

Unfortunately living on the route (part of the route that has recently lost all Arriva services) I'm stuck with them I'm afraid. I'm not too keen on the people high up in the company if I'm honest.
They seem to make decisions based on what is going to make the most money (fair enough, it is a business at the end of the day) but at the same time inconveniencing lots of others.
For example - scrapping the first bus off Newcastle to Carlisle which left at 0625 ish and got you into Carlisle at 8am ish. Brilliant; people (like me) could get to work in plenty of time and it is *relatively* cheap.
But they scrapped that, from my eyes to introduce competition with GNE to provide a Hexham only service early on in the morning. Fabulous; but the Hexham - Newcastle corridor is spoilt for choice already!


At the other end of the scale, I dislike the people who immediately go and bleat to the Hexham Courant for the sake of it - just as much as I dislike Arriva themselves. Just the pure ignorance really makes me want to headbutt a brick wall; they do not know what they are talking about - for example they think that Arriva have tonnes of low-floor coaches with ramps (ready for disability legislation) sitting at Jesmond and they're not using them. Nope! The Omnicity is probably one of the best options for the 685 as it is. Yes they made a mistake putting horrid leather seats in but they can then rectify that easily!



Those are my views anyway. It's late now so I better go to bed.
Sean

EDIT: On another note, I'd like to mention that I would love to see the whole service either operated by Arriva fully (therefore getting rid of Stagecoach issues [leaving in the twice-hourly Brampton-Carlisle shuttles though]) or by another operator - like Dan, I favour GNE the most out of the 'big three'.
Not really fond of Arriva to be honest.

(11 Jan 2014, 7:44 pm)Adam Malarkey wrote [ -> ]I have never been to Hexham in my life, but if I was a Passenger living in that area I know who I would travel with, and the would be Go North East, I don't see how the 685 can even compete with the 10/X84/X85 when Go North East are offering the following Ticket Options with the Bonus of Free Wifi and a Bus Service which turns up on Time, and clearly as Dan Mentioned that Passengers in Hexham are Praising which Go North East are giving them.

Ten Weekly Saver - £14.60

7 days unlimited travel on the TEN and Toon Link 11 buses between Greenside, Crawcrook, Ryton, Blaydon and Newcastle
Toon Link 32 buses between Blaydon Bus Station and Newcastle

Ten Weekly Saver Plus - £21.80

7 days unlimited travel on the TEN and Toon Link 11 between Hexham, Corbridge, Branch End, Prudhoe, Ryton, Blaydon and Newcastle.
Toon Link 32 buses between Blaydon Bus Station and Newcastle
Valid on Tynedalexpress X84 / X85

whereas Arriva are offering - Info from 685 Timetable

Day Ticket: Adult £7.30 - Child £5.00 - Concessions £5.50 - Family Two Zone Triple Ticket valid Newcastle to Hexham £13.00

Regionwide Weekly Saver £26.00 - Family Two Zone Triple Ticket valid Newcastle to Hexham £21.50

No doubt prices are same for Stagecoach as it's a Joint Operation, Overall from a Passenger Perspective, I would say you get better Value for Money using Go North East.

Arriva have recently increased some fares with the Regionwide day ticket now priced at £7.50. Although the two zone triple day ticket still looks good value at £5.70 for an adult compared with the GNE 3 zone buzzfare.

(11 Jan 2014, 9:14 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Well they're certainly spoilt for choice!

GNE 10 at 0830, ANE 85 at 0835, GNE X84 at 0840, SNW 685 at 0845, GNE 10 at 0900 and GNE X85 at 0910!

Does show just how silly the competition is getting...

Against the grain of the forum () but you'd see me on the Northern Trains 08.24 which will get me to Hexham by 08.58

By this time the 08.30 Ten will have just arrived in Crawcrook. Infact I could wait for the 08.54 train which arriving at 09.38 would still see the Ten bobbing around Corbridge

The Tynedale 'Express' at 08.40 will be 'Heddon on the Wall' as my train arrives into Hexham and again my later train would get to Hexham 2 minutes earlier.

Ah but the 85 at 08.35, that'll be quick...Well whilst I'm de-training at Hexham the 85 is at Heddon Three Tuns, but it does beat my 2nd train.

If I wait for the 685, well thats just at Lemington Road Ends while I'm in Hexham. For the 2nd train well it arrives 3 minutes later.

I was in Hexham today, and returned on the Ten (as it was the first one to arrive) which is not serving central Corbridge due to gas main replacement works (road closed for up to two weeks).
As the 685 was scheduled 5 minutes behind the Ten (which was itself about 5 minutes behind schedule) I waited to catch the 685 to take me across the river.
The Stagecoach service arrived 20 minutes behind schedule and the driver explained that this was due to leaving Carlisle late having had to find a replacement vehicle (problems with the 'lift' - I presume he meant the kneeling).

The half-past ten Arriva 685 towards Newcastle was 25 minutes late at Corbridge (it arrived behind the X85).

Passengers waiting reported 'not unusual' for the 685 to be late.

There are roadworks with traffic lights at Dilston Bridge but the delays there are just a couple of minutes.

The half-past eleven Arriva 685 was 'on time'.

Wonder if GNE would fancy this if Arriva stepped out.

There does seem to be an element of more bother than worth. For places en-route served by train, it would be a no brainer to jump on Thomas the Tank Engine for me

(14 Jan 2014, 4:31 pm)gtomlinson wrote [ -> ]Wonder if GNE would fancy this if Arriva stepped out.

There does seem to be an element of more bother than worth. For places en-route served by train, it would be a no brainer to jump on Thomas the Tank Engine for me

Haydon Bridge has trains that pass through every hour but only stop alternately (ie every two hours) - likewise Bardon Mill, Brampton and Wetheral.

There are also rural dwellings between the stations that are served by the 685.

(14 Jan 2014, 4:45 pm)G-CPTN wrote [ -> ]Haydon Bridge has trains that pass through every hour but only stop alternately (ie every two hours) - likewise Bardon Mill, Brampton and Wetheral.

There are also rural dwellings between the stations that are served by the 685.

The reliability of the 685 seems to be the biggest issue. I can't imagine anyone going point to point not the service, would local service not be better for the rural areas? Not too familiar with the area.

The 16:35 service through Corbridge to Newcastle arrived today @16.55.

Oh and the '685' has been dropped - it's just the 85 now (to counter GNE's X85 - and X84 - I suppose.

Polling a few passengers waiting in Corbridge for buses to Newcastle, they said that the GNE buses were quicker as well as being more frequent and more reliable, so it looks like GNE are winning customers from Arriva/Stagecoach.

From Corbridge to Hexham it depends on punctuality. The Arriva/Stagecoach service is scheduled first (28 minutes past) then X84 at 32 minutes past and then X85 at 49 minutes past. Most passengers (especially those with free passes) take the first one to arrive frequently being the X84 (unless they are going further on through Hexham towards Haydon Bridge and Carlisle).

From Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancashire Thread:

(17 Feb 2014, 10:38 pm)mattdw92 wrote [ -> ]One piece of information which about this years Stagecoach Order which has entered the public domain is the confirmation of short-term step-ins 27766/67 on the 685, which will be replaced by buses with "coach style seating, seatbelts and wifi" in the coming year."

In the same article in the Hexham Courant today, Arriva are looking to replace the Omnicity vehicles which have leather seats with fabric seating - and that they are looking at the options in terms of handrails and whether seatbelts can be fitted.

(17 Feb 2014, 10:40 pm)mattdw92 wrote [ -> ]From Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancashire Thread:

Interesting move, but a good one to see. Certainly heats up the competition on the Newcastle - Hexham services once more.

The alterations to the 685 vehicles was discussed at a recent NCC Area Committee meeting in response to complaints received from passengers.
The leather seats afforded little purchase for passengers when the buses negotiated the twisty sections of the route. Previous (coach) vehicles had moquette seats and seatbelts, and the current vehicles had neither. Of course the current vehicles are low-floor to comply with disabled access regulations.

The Stagecoach representative announced that they would be introducing NEW vehicles later in the year, fitted with seatbelts (and wifi).

The Arriva guy was subjected to criticism that they, too, were not providing NEW vehicles, and it was my opinion that Arriva will simply recover the existing vehicle seats and fit seatbelts - leaving the criticism of poor ride quality (as mentioned, the previous (unreliable) vehicles were to coach specification rather than buses).

(17 Feb 2014, 11:23 pm)G-CPTN wrote [ -> ]The alterations to the 685 vehicles was discussed at a recent NCC Area Committee meeting in response to complaints received from passengers.
The leather seats afforded little purchase for passengers when the buses negotiated the twisty sections of the route. Previous (coach) vehicles had moquette seats and seatbelts, and the current vehicles had neither. Of course the current vehicles are low-floor to comply with disabled access regulations.

The Stagecoach representative announced that they would be introducing NEW vehicles later in the year, fitted with seatbelts (and wifi).

The Arriva guy was subjected to criticism that they, too, were not providing NEW vehicles, and it was my opinion that Arriva will simply recover the existing vehicle seats and fit seatbelts - leaving the criticism of poor ride quality (as mentioned, the previous (unreliable) vehicles were to coach specification rather than buses).

Does the poor ride quality not translate onto the E300s too or is it just an anti-Arriva stance?
I don't disagree that a route like the 685 needs coaches though.

(17 Feb 2014, 11:26 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Does the poor ride quality not translate onto the E300s too or is it just an anti-Arriva stance?
I don't disagree that a route like the 685 needs coaches though.

I don't like Arriva, but the ride isn't poor in my opinion.

Something I've noticed recently about pricing on the 685. It differs between the two operators.

For example,
Stagecoach - £4.75 Hexham to Newcastle
Arriva - £5.40 Hexham to Newcastle

Stagecoach - £3.25 Heddon to Newcastle
Arriva - £3.40 Heddon to Newcastle