North East Buses

7401-6 appear to have the Northumbria address. Or the one I noticed certainly did.

(03 Feb 2015, 3:36 pm)Cock Robin wrote [ -> ]So how do Redcar drivers drive 2827/8 then?

They've been type-trained on them - after all they were in storage down there for long enough. Likewise they'll have been type-trained on the B9TLs.

(03 Feb 2015, 3:39 pm)Cock Robin wrote [ -> ]7401-6 appear to have the Northumbria address. Or the one I noticed certainly did.

7402/5/6 have Durham County, 7401/3/4 Northumbria.

(01 Feb 2015, 11:55 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]God knows.......

For 1733/42/50/95/96 (and 1758) to be removed from service, Darlington have to receive 2852-61, allowing 2803/4/5/7/8/26/9 to move to Stockton releasing 1769/71/2 to join Darlington's 1760/7/91 in moving to Blyth. As 2857/61 are still being used by Jesmond and the rest appear to be in storage there, it's a case of waiting for spare drivers to allow the moves to take place

So, there's a plan to remove most non-DDA MPD's - but what about the 5 remaining V and W reg examples at Darlington after these moves take place. Is it a case of the new Streetlites for the X1 allow these to be removed by giving an overall balance of numbers at Darlington or will a further shuffle (of what??) be required?

One movement that has occurred is 1310 from Durham to Darlington, it is currently acting as a 4th bus on service 12/12A due to a accident between Hurworth and Darlington on the A167

7518 is VOR today, having its Sapphire stickers applied...

Am I missing something here, or can someone tell me exactly how long it takes to 'type train' a driver on a new bus? The whole concept of it actually sounds like health and safety gone mad.

(04 Feb 2015, 7:25 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Am I missing something here, or can someone tell me exactly how long it takes to 'type train' a driver on a new bus? The whole concept of it actually sounds like health and safety gone mad.

Nothing more than a few minutes per driver at the depot!

(04 Feb 2015, 7:25 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Am I missing something here, or can someone tell me exactly how long it takes to 'type train' a driver on a new bus? The whole concept of it actually sounds like health and safety gone mad.

Every driver has to be trained on every type of vehicle - indeed, half of Stockton's drivers aren't actually trained on the Streetlites yet (of course that's more due to the fact only really the Sapphire rota, engineering staff, the Leading Drivers and Inspectors that drive them). Everyone at Stockton needs training on the Solos as anyone could be driving them on the 7.

I've been using the X21 frequently this past week and I noticed a few things:

• All journeys did have passengers, however only the peak time runs were full, most had a maximum of about 30 on. (From what I saw). So loads at peak times would be spread, helping reliability. 
  
• The timetable seems quite tight, and if there is a large amount of people from upstairs getting off over a few stops, it puts the bus back a few minutes.
  
• When the bus was late, it seemed like the driver really had to push to get back on time.
  

So I think they could be better off doing this:
32x Volvo B8RLE single deckers, increasing the frequency of both services to every 10 minutes, so there is a combined frequency of every 5. At peak times, this would mean buses were less cramped, and more convenient 
These would, I think, be better suited to the route, as they allow for quick entry/exit, have a more powerful engine and you would have buses that are actually pretty full, all of the time.

The current Enviro 400's could then be used to upgrade another route, or provide additional spares.

Thoughts?

(04 Feb 2015, 8:21 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I've been using the X21 frequently this past week and I noticed a few things:

• All journeys did have passengers, however only the peak time runs were full, most had a maximum of about 30 on. (From what I saw). So loads at peak times would be spread, helping reliability. 
  
• The timetable seems quite tight, and if there is a large amount of people from upstairs getting off over a few stops, it puts the bus back a few minutes.
  
• When the bus was late, it seemed like the driver really had to push to get back on time.
  

So I think they could be better off doing this:
32x Volvo B8RLE single deckers, increasing the frequency of both services to every 10 minutes, so there is a combined frequency of every 5. At peak times, this would mean buses were less cramped, and more convenient 
These would, I think, be better suited to the route, as they allow for quick entry/exit, have a more powerful engine and you would have buses that are actually pretty full, all of the time.

The current Enviro 400's could then be used to upgrade another route, or provide additional spares.

Thoughts?

Can't help but feel it would make the costs of running the X21/X22 go through the roof.

The advantage of double deckers is that they provide the extra capacity when it's needed; instead of having more peak time runs to combat full buses at this time, double deckers only require the one bus (and hence driver) and lowers costs. The advantage of light-weight double deckers is that it allows for savings on fuel.

(04 Feb 2015, 8:21 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I've been using the X21 frequently this past week and I noticed a few things:

• All journeys did have passengers, however only the peak time runs were full, most had a maximum of about 30 on. (From what I saw). So loads at peak times would be spread, helping reliability. 
  
• The timetable seems quite tight, and if there is a large amount of people from upstairs getting off over a few stops, it puts the bus back a few minutes.
  
• When the bus was late, it seemed like the driver really had to push to get back on time.
  

So I think they could be better off doing this:
32x Volvo B8RLE single deckers, increasing the frequency of both services to every 10 minutes, so there is a combined frequency of every 5. At peak times, this would mean buses were less cramped, and more convenient 
These would, I think, be better suited to the route, as they allow for quick entry/exit, have a more powerful engine and you would have buses that are actually pretty full, all of the time.

The current Enviro 400's could then be used to upgrade another route, or provide additional spares.

Thoughts?

Running 32 vehicles would almost certainly put the services at a complete financial loss.

(04 Feb 2015, 8:24 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Can't help but feel it would make the costs of running the X21/X22 go through the roof.

The advantage of double deckers is that they provide the extra capacity when it's needed; instead of having more peak time runs to combat full buses at this time, double deckers only require the one bus (and hence driver) and lowers costs. The advantage of light-weight double deckers is that it allows for savings on fuel.

Exactly

Also notice that there's an extra peak time journey on the X20 using a bus off the 35A.

All that's maybe needed looking at is something similar to how its worked at Stockton depot - our 27/27a operate a 7/8 minutes flow one way at peaktime and 15 minutes flow in the other (ie from 1530 onwards, it's a 7/8 minutes flow to Netherfields but every 15 back in) with buses dropping off to work peak time services (1 27 drops off to work the 1710 X5 while the rest end up on the 17 group at some stage).

(04 Feb 2015, 8:24 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Can't help but feel it would make the costs of running the X21/X22 go through the roof.

The advantage of double deckers is that they provide the extra capacity when it's needed; instead of having more peak time runs to combat full buses at this time, double deckers only require the one bus (and hence driver) and lowers costs. The advantage of light-weight double deckers is that it allows for savings on fuel.

(04 Feb 2015, 8:26 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Running 32 vehicles would almost certainly put the services at a complete financial loss.

Oh god yeah, didn't think of the financial side (other than the initial outlay).........

Thinking about it, however, I think that if Ashington sorted their allocations out they could probably get away with keeping 4 of the current E400's (7522-5 say), and use those for peak time runs. With B8's doing the others.

I'll try and do head counts for the remainder of this week, I just think it's a waste having double deckers running around when for all bar around 10 runs per day, single deckers would do the job. (Especially when other services, such as the 7, need double deckers)

(04 Feb 2015, 7:25 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Am I missing something here, or can someone tell me exactly how long it takes to 'type train' a driver on a new bus? The whole concept of it actually sounds like health and safety gone mad.

The dashboard layout of a bus and associated buttons/controls can differ per model. Even slightly.

I believe some operators issue booklets these days, with a photo of the dash and labels.

(04 Feb 2015, 8:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]The dashboard layout of a bus and associated buttons/controls can differ per model. Even slightly.

I believe some operators issue booklets these days, with a photo of the dash and labels.

More than just between models............

Ashington's drivers will have had to have been type-trained again on the last batch of E400s (7522-33) as their dash is different to that in the older examples (7501-9/11-21). To use another example from another company - if Stagecoach Stockton even got 22341-8/408-13 from Newcastle, all the driving team would have to be type-trained on them despite Stockton having similar examples as they have a different dash even to the MAN E300s.

(04 Feb 2015, 8:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]The dashboard layout of a bus and associated buttons/controls can differ per model. Even slightly.

I believe some operators issue booklets these days, with a photo of the dash and labels.

Don't know about booklets, but I know there's a large number of GNE buses that have a photo of the dash which is labelled stuck up somewhere in the cab for drivers to see.

I'm an outsider looking in here, so feel free to shoot me down, but this all seems like a bit of a faff on? Regardless of where the indicators, door open buttons, seat adjusters, etc are - it's still a bus. As long as you're licence to drive it, you know the height and length of it, then it shouldn't be an issue?

(04 Feb 2015, 9:04 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]I'm an outsider looking in here, so feel free to shoot me down, but this all seems like a bit of a faff on? Regardless of where the indicators, door open buttons, seat adjusters, etc are - it's still a bus. As long as you're licence to drive it, you know the height and length of it, then it shouldn't be an issue?

I do think type-training is quite important, but it shouldn't be something which goes on for weeks and weeks and weeks on end. Delaying the disposal of buses (where the sale value will be decreasing) as a result of long periods of time to train drivers on buses could make the process seem a bit of a "faff on", I agree.

Included some dashboard shots for interest below:

Go North East: "The all-new Enviro 400 visits Riverside!" by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

[Demonstrator] Interior shot of Go North East's 9132 (LK13AEJ), Wright Streetlite Max by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

[Demonstrator] Interior shot of Go North East's 9133 (YJ62FFB), Optare Versa 11.7m by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

Interior shot of Go North East's 6083, Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

Go-Ahead London General: LT299 / LTZ1299 by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

(04 Feb 2015, 9:04 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]I'm an outsider looking in here, so feel free to shoot me down, but this all seems like a bit of a faff on? Regardless of where the indicators, door open buttons, seat adjusters, etc are - it's still a bus. As long as you're licence to drive it, you know the height and length of it, then it shouldn't be an issue

Don't give them any ammunition!
It could be that a button on one model opens the doors and a button in the same location on a different model sets off the ejector seat

Further to my previous post (and just a little bit of fun really):

Interior shot of Weardale Motor Services' 6249UP, Leyland Leopard/Alexander Y-type by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

A driver who is more accustomed to the above style of dashboard will most definitely need training on the ADL Enviro400MMC, wouldn't you agree? Technology evolves over time, and I'm sure the same will even apply for the oldest and youngest members of a depot's fleet.

I'm sure that, if common sense was applied, a driver could figure out what was what on a new vehicle type.
10 minutes alone in a cab and I think they'd figure it out?

(04 Feb 2015, 9:25 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I'm sure that, if common sense was applied, a driver could figure out what was what on a new vehicle type.
10 minutes alone in a cab and I think they'd figure it out?

It can cover the operators backs in event of an accident or incident.

Type train a driver, prove you have done it properly and if an incident occurs, then the driver will be culpable.

Even if you get a hire car, the company often show you around and share a few hints and tips specific to that vehicle.

(04 Feb 2015, 9:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]It can cover the operators backs in event of an accident or incident.

Type train a driver, prove you have done it properly and if an incident occurs, then the driver will be culpable.

Even if you get a hire car, the company often show you around and share a few hints and tips specific to that vehicle.

Ah right okay, didn't think about that...   

Out of interest, who trains the person who trains the drivers?
Would an employee from ADL, for example, go down and train one driver, or is there a manual kind of thing?

(04 Feb 2015, 9:35 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Ah right okay, didn't think about that...   

Out of interest, who trains the person who trains the drivers?
Would an employee from ADL, for example, go down and train one driver, or is there a manual kind of thing?

You will have instructors, who do the driver training, CPC etc and it will probably be the same instructors (maybe the lead one), who do the type training.
Who trains them to do the type training, not sure - it would make sense if like you say, the operator held workshops for the information to be cascaded down.

(04 Feb 2015, 9:25 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I'm sure that, if common sense was applied, a driver could figure out what was what on a new vehicle type.
10 minutes alone in a cab and I think they'd figure it out?

Yes if common sense was applied then drivers could work things out. But in these days of "where's the blame there's a claim" it just isn't financially sensible to send drivers out with something unfamiliar.
Of course there are times where it does happen, for example when we went to Jesmond to do Metro replacements last spring we didn't get type trained on the DAF deckers. The dashboard was very similar to the Prestiges, of course, so it wasn't a big issue.
Didn't get any type training at the Paralympics though...!

I know that this should be in service suggestions but here is my idea for the X21 / X22.

In order to:
- Speed up journey times from Newbiggin, Wansbeck Hospital, Ashington, Stakeford, and Bedlington Station to and from Newcastle.
- Reduce the PVR to 14 vehicle leaving 3 spare Sapphire vehicles.
- To improve reliability across all services.
- To streamline 1 simple core frequency with no lengthy gaps (15/5 e.t.c) from Ashington to Newcastle via Stakeford and Bedlington Front Street with another service providing all alternative local connections between Ashington and Newcastle

Suggestion for Service X21:
- Service X21 would be revised to operate every 15 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle with buses extending half hourly between to and from Newbiggin. The route between Newbiggin and Bedlington Front Street would remain unchanged but between Bedlington Front Street and Newcastle, buses would operate via the current X22 route at all times to provide a faster service for longer distance passengers and to improve reliability. Evening and Sunday journeys would also be increased to operate every 30 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle extending every 60 minutes to and from Newbiggin.

All in all, service X21 would now provide a core combined frequency of every 15 minutes (30 evenings and Sundays) with equal gaps between Ashington and Newcastle via North Seaton Elephant, Stakeford, Bedlington Station, Bedlington Front Street, Regent Centre, Gosforth and Newcastle. This would technically increase the number of buses from 3 to 4 to and from Bedlington Front Street due to the 15 minute gaps between the current X21 / X22 being eliminated with an equal 4 buses (2 evenings and Sundays) per hour between Ashington and Newcastle.

A new revised service X22 would provide all alternative local connections via the 'slow route' between Ashington and Newcastle. Service X21 would continue to use Stand P and service X22 would use stand N with the X20 being re-timed to accommodate this.

Suggestion for Service X22:
- Service X22 would be revised to operate every 30 minutes (60 evenings and Sundays) between Ashington and Newcastle. Buses would operate the same route as now between Ashington and Guide Post. Between Guide Post and Newcastle however, buses would continue down the A1068 as now but to Bedlington Glebe Road. From Glebe Road, buses would then continue to Newcastle via the Red Lion Roundabout then via the current X21 route from there to Newcastle via Ridge Terrace and  Nedderton.

Total PVR requirements:
- Services X21 / X22 Monday to Saturday daytime: 14 ADL E400s (7522-7528, 7518 and 6 of the best of 7501 - 7509).
- Long X21 and 35 evenings and Sundays: 4 ADL E400s (7522-7525).
- Short X21 and X22 evenings and Sundays: 4 ADL E400s (7526-7528 and 7518).

Interworking Patterns for X21 / X22 Monday to Saturday daytime:
- X21 from Newbiggin to Newcastle with 10 minutes layover in Newcastle.
- X21 from Newcastle to Ashington with 6 minutes layover in Ashington.
- X22 from Ashington to Newcastle with 6 minutes layover in Newcastle.
- X22 from Newcastle to Ashington with 9 minutes layover in Ashington.
- X21 from Ashington to Newcastle with 10 minutes layover in Newcastle.
- X21 from Newcastle to Newbiggin with 7 minutes layover in Newbiggin.
Average layover time in 7 hour cycle to and from Newbiggin = 6.85 minutes per hour

Interworking Patterns for X21 (long) / 35 evenings and Sundays:
- 35 from Morpeth to Newbiggin with 10 minutes layover in Newbiggin.
- X21 from Newbiggin to Newcastle with 5 minutes layover in Newcastle.
- X21 from Newcastle to Newbiggin with 10 minutes layover in Newbiggin.
- 35 from Newbiggin to Morpeth with 7 minutes layover in Morpeth.
Average layover time in 4 hour cycle to and from Morpeth = 8 minutes per hour

Interworking Patterns for X21 (short) / X22 evenings and Sundays:
- X21 from Ashington to Newcastle with 5 minutes layover in Newcastle.
- X21 from Newcastle to Ashington with 10 minutes layover in Ashington.
- X22 from Ashington to Newcastle with 5 minutes layover in Newcastle.
- X22 from Newcastle to Ashington with 8 minutes layover in Morpeth.
Average layover time in 4 hour cycle to and from Ashington = 7 minutes per hour

Example timetable with timings (not full one): [attachment=6297]

Was quite surprised to see 4812 still carrying fleet number 499 - no sign of an Arriva NE fleet number on the inside.

Driver (as friendly as he was) ought to brush up on his knowledge of ticketing options too. He had to get pretty much every customer to assist him in locating the ticket on his ETM.

Currently sat on ex P&R Solo on the 8.14 number 4 from Minors Crescent. It still has P&R and Durham County Council signs on the inside but I'm surprised to see a next stop announcement system inside too. It's not currently switched on. I'm on 2860 and the doors aren't working very well

(05 Feb 2015, 8:23 am)JoshP wrote [ -> ]Currently sat on ex P&R Solo on the 8.14 number 4 from Minors Crescent. It still has P&R and Durham County Council signs on the inside but I'm surprised to see a next stop announcement system inside too. It's not currently switched on. I'm on 2860 and the doors aren't working very well

So that's what they've been doing to them? About time some entered service so that the next round of cascades can be kicked off

(05 Feb 2015, 8:53 am)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]So that's what they've been doing to them? About time some entered service so that the next round of cascades can be kicked off

This means they must be destined for one route! I hope it's the 4!!