North East Buses

Someone needs to go back to the drawing board, and reshuffle services again, but this time for the better. Starting with Sapphire, fixing the seat problems and installing more comfortable seats.

Ashington and Blyth need to get their act together when it comes to allocations, if a bus isn't allocated to the correct route, maybe a fine should be issued to the depot.

(15 Feb 2015, 1:57 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Some journeys require deckers (more so on the 24 - which is where the decker boards are mainly) hence needing some. There's then also the 24X to consider.

What does the 24X run off?

I imagine the 24X will be non Sapphire?

(15 Feb 2015, 2:06 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]Someone needs to go back to the drawing board, and reshuffle services again, but this time for the better. Starting with Sapphire, fixing the seat problems and installing more comfortable seats.

Ashington and Blyth need to get their act together when it comes to allocations, if a bus isn't allocated to the correct route, maybe a fine should be issued to the depot.

And lose capacity - no chance! The seats you mentioned that are found in the Welsh Sapphire E400s are a Welsh-only feature - and also can only be fitted as 2+1 configuration. So, if you want E400s that can only seat 66 (or even less if you want them on both decks) over E400s that can seat 76-80 (depending on which batch it is - 7518 can seat 80, the newer batch are 76 seaters and 7501-9 are 78 seaters) go ahead. It's funny - I don't have a problem with the seats in the Sapphire or MAX stock - I find them soft and comfortable.

What is needed is finding who allocates to the wrong route and tell them not to - one of Stockton's inspectors used to be well know for being the one who used to allocate buses out on anything. However, since 'Sapphire' arrived, it's very rare for anything to end up off route (especially the Streetlites). 1512 has been on other work but only on Saturdays when it is genuinely 'spare' (weekdays, when not required on 5/5A, it is either allocated to the 27 board that works the 1710 X5 from Middlesbrough or the 9/27a board that works the 0705 X5 from Easington).

(15 Feb 2015, 2:17 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]What does the 24X run off?

I imagine the 24X will be non Sapphire?

I believe the 24X is on X24A board during the week - so basically it's a spare bus all day. Likely will be allocated a Sapphire decker for the morning run but whether that bus manages to end up working the afternoon trip depends on whether it's needed on one of the other Sapphire services (remember Durham will have 4 Sapphire routes - 6/22/24 along with their 2 7 boards).

(15 Feb 2015, 2:21 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]And lose capacity - no chance! The seats you mentioned that are found in the Welsh Sapphire E400s are a Welsh-only feature - and also can only be fitted as 2+1 configuration. So, if you want E400s that can only seat 66 (or even less if you want them on both decks) over E400s that can seat 76-80 (depending on which batch it is - 7518 can seat 80, the newer batch are 76 seaters and 7501-9 are 78 seaters) go ahead. It's funny - I don't have a problem with the seats in the Sapphire or MAX stock - I find them soft and comfortable.

What is needed is finding who allocates to the wrong route and tell them not to - one of Stockton's inspectors used to be well know for being the one who used to allocate buses out on anything. However, since 'Sapphire' arrived, it's very rare for anything to end up off route (especially the Streetlites). 1512 has been on other work but only on Saturdays when it is genuinely 'spare' (weekdays, when not required on 5/5A, it is either allocated to the 27 board that works the 1710 X5 from Middlesbrough or the 9/27a board that works the 0705 X5 from Easington).

There's more types of seats that offer more comfort.

(15 Feb 2015, 2:25 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]There's more types of seats that offer more comfort.

There is nothing wrong with the Sapphire seats!
I've been on them a couple of times, and barring the two seats at the front, they are fine! 

(15 Feb 2015, 2:26 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]There is nothing wrong with the Sapphire seats!
I've been on them a couple of times, and barring the two seats at the front, they are fine! 

No, what I'm saying is, they need to put better seats in the buses, I usually spend around an hour on a bus from my house to Haymarket. 

The seats get uncomfortable on a journey over 30 minutes. On a refurb, they break my neck, back and arse after leaving Regent Centre from Newcastle. 

(15 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]No, what I'm saying is, they need to put better seats in the buses, I usually spend around an hour on a bus from my house to Haymarket. 

The seats get uncomfortable on a journey over 30 minutes. On a refurb, they break my neck, back and arse after leaving Regent Centre from Newcastle. 

They aren't that bad! 

Trust me, they are. (Refurbs)

(15 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]No, what I'm saying is, they need to put better seats in the buses, I usually spend around an hour on a bus from my house to Haymarket. 

The seats get uncomfortable on a journey over 30 minutes. On a refurb, they break my neck, back and arse after leaving Regent Centre from Newcastle. 

(15 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]They aren't that bad! 

(15 Feb 2015, 2:32 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]Trust me, they are. (Refurbs)

I've done a full Newcastle to Ashington X22 on one of the refurbished E400s and I was fine.

(15 Feb 2015, 2:21 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]What is needed is finding who allocates to the wrong route and tell them not to - one of Stockton's inspectors used to be well know for being the one who used to allocate buses out on anything. However, since 'Sapphire' arrived, it's very rare for anything to end up off route (especially the Streetlites). 1512 has been on other work but only on Saturdays when it is genuinely 'spare' (weekdays, when not required on 5/5A, it is either allocated to the 27 board that works the 1710 X5 from Middlesbrough or the 9/27a board that works the 0705 X5 from Easington).

Is there a way to get something done about the state of the allocations? Especially the 308 at Blyth and Ashington's Sapphire? Maybe some photos to Arriva in an email of buses being allocated incorrectly? 

(15 Feb 2015, 2:41 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Is there a way to get something done about the state of the allocations? Especially the 308 at Blyth and Ashington's Sapphire? Maybe some photos to Arriva in an email of buses being allocated incorrectly? 

I feel the need to email Arriva of all the photos of Blyth buses.

(15 Feb 2015, 2:42 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]I feel the need to email Arriva of all the photos of Blyth buses.

And the point of that would be...?

(15 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]No, what I'm saying is, they need to put better seats in the buses, I usually spend around an hour on a bus from my house to Haymarket. 



The seats get uncomfortable on a journey over 30 minutes. On a refurb, they break my neck, back and arse after leaving Regent Centre from Newcastle. 

Can't vouch for the X21/X22 referbs as I haven't been on them, but every other bus with e-leather I have ridden has been fine and I've done Sunderland - Aycliffe on the X21/21 with a journey time of 90 minutes and did the full 4/X4 from Whitby to Boro which lasted around 1hr 50mins. Also had Sapphire 7 Pulsars on the 7 from Aycliffe - Fram two days a week most weeks and they are great. All I will say is don't sit on the seats behind the drivers cab on the Omnicitys.

We all have different judgements of what is and what isn't comfortable. Although this goes without saying: we're all different sizes and builds which provides reasoning for why we have different views on how comfortable certain seating is, but our comments regarding seating in the past proves this alone.

I've made my views clear on e-leather seating and how I prefer normal fabric seating. E-leather seating is the present and future; quite frankly, it's going to catch on to be a standard feature with all operators soon enough. The main reason I prefer it is because it warms up quicker and seems to be softer. How comfortable e-leather seating is ultimately depends on the seat type for me. I've stated in the past that I personally don't mind the e-leather used on Lothian's Scania double-decks previously allocated to the "Airlink" 100 service, as it's similar to (but bulkier than) the seating on Go North East's Mercedes Citaros. It's not just your bog standard Civic V2 / Civic V3 with e-leather moquette.

(15 Feb 2015, 2:44 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]And the point of that would be...?

That every bus that I've photographed that is based in Blyth has been on the wrong route.

There's the point 

(15 Feb 2015, 2:34 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]I've done a full Newcastle to Ashington X22 on one of the refurbished E400s and I was fine.

Living on the edge eh Tony.....

(15 Feb 2015, 3:13 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Living on the edge eh Tony.....

Would never use the X21 / X22 if I was going all the way to Ashington, X20 every time unless they brought back the X31 / X32 or scrapped the X21 detour through Ridge Farm

(15 Feb 2015, 3:13 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Living on the edge eh Tony.....

Trying out the Sapphire standard - most of my trips to Ashington direct have been via the Sapphire network rather than the X20 (bar the one trip when 7530 appeared on the X20).

(15 Feb 2015, 3:19 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Would never use the X21 / X22 if I was going all the way to Ashington, X20 every time unless they brought back the X31 / X32 or scrapped the X21 detour through Ridge Farm

When will you understand - these days it's simplification not complication. The X31/X32 will never be coming back nor will they scrap having the X21 serve Ridge Farm.

(15 Feb 2015, 3:19 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Would never use the X21 / X22 if I was going all the way to Ashington, X20 every time unless they brought back the X31 / X32 or scrapped the X21 detour through Ridge Farm

Yeah, I tend to use the X20 over the X21/X22 unless I'm returning on an evening without my portable external battery pack (in which case I use the X21/X22 so I can charge my phone!)

(15 Feb 2015, 2:17 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]What does the 24X run off?

I imagine the 24X will be non Sapphire?

The 24X is indeed on X24A RTC, which does the AM 46, the 807, 24X and finishing off on the X21 - I'd imagine this has to be one of the boards with the most dead running.

(15 Feb 2015, 2:58 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]That every bus that I've photographed that is based in Blyth has been on the wrong route.

There's the point 

Still no point. 
The only reason we have a problem with buses been on the wrong routes is because we are enthusiasts and follow all of this stuff. Ordinary passengers tend not to give a shit. You could email them but i really can't see it making much difference. I think it has also been said millions of times that it only happens a lot because buses in the depot replace buses to rectify timings which is better in general. I'm pretty sure providing a better service is more important than making sure the bus is the right colour.

(15 Feb 2015, 3:47 pm)Robert wrote [ -> ]Still no point. 
The only reason we have a problem with buses been on the wrong routes is because we are enthusiasts and follow all of this stuff. Ordinary passengers tend not to give a shit. You could email them but i really can't see it making much difference. I think it has also been said millions of times that it only happens a lot because buses in the depot replace buses to rectify timings which is better in general. I'm pretty sure providing a better service is more important than making sure the bus is the right colour.

Yeah most passengers don't tend to care what colour the bus is, although some get annoyed if the bus has no WiFi (including me once when Dart 1611 turned up once on the 7)

I am an enthusiast and I don't really care what turns up on the 7. Although I do like when odd workings turn up especially if I have my camera, had I not had to be somewhere else that night I would have had a ride on this on the 7 https://www.flickr.com/photos/127079988@N02/15581375900

Buses out on 900 this afternoon:
7445,7446
7484,7485,7488,7490,7494
7503,7517
7613,7622

If anyone is interested, this is what the Arriva office in Darlington now looks like with it's new ad.

(15 Feb 2015, 2:42 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]I feel the need to email Arriva of all the photos of Blyth buses.

I wouldn't bother - they'll already know about all the odd workings  ................

(15 Feb 2015, 3:23 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Trying out the Sapphire standard - most of my trips to Ashington direct have been via the Sapphire network rather than the X20 (bar the one trip when 7530 appeared on the X20).


When will you understand - these days it's simplification not complication. The X31/X32 will never be coming back nor will they scrap having the X21 serve Ridge Farm.

Aye, but would you like it if you lived in Newbiggin and Arriva suddenly slapped an extra 5 minutes onto your journey time including all the reliability issues that go with the detour? 

(15 Feb 2015, 4:56 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Aye, but would you like it if you lived in Newbiggin and Arriva suddenly slapped an extra 5 minutes onto your journey time including all the reliability issues that go with the detour? 

For the sake of 5 minutes, i wouldnt be bothered.

(15 Feb 2015, 5:12 pm)Robert wrote [ -> ]For the sake of 5 minutes, i wouldnt be bothered.

Same... its not like 30 minutes...

(15 Feb 2015, 3:47 pm)Robert wrote [ -> ]Still no point. 
The only reason we have a problem with buses been on the wrong routes is because we are enthusiasts and follow all of this stuff. Ordinary passengers tend not to give a shit. You could email them but i really can't see it making much difference. I think it has also been said millions of times that it only happens a lot because buses in the depot replace buses to rectify timings which is better in general. I'm pretty sure providing a better service is more important than making sure the bus is the right colour.

Actually, there is a point in allocating the correct vehicles to bus services.

Since the implementation of the "Sapphire" and "MAX" brands, Arriva North East has placed its services on what could loosely be described as a hierarchy. The services which fall underneath these brands should (in theory) be some of Arriva North East's top performing routes or have the potential to become some of Arriva's top performing routes - making the most profits and/or carrying the most passengers.

The issue with placing services on a hierarchy is simple: there has to be something to separate those services on the hierarchy. Of course, we all know the differences between "Sapphire," "MAX," and a standard Arriva service. Vehicles held under the "Sapphire" brand feature the provision of power sockets, free Wi-Fi, Next Stop Announcements and e-leather seating. Likewise, vehicles held under the "MAX" brand feature the provision of free Wi-Fi and e-leather seating. Customers should not expect any additional features on standard Arriva services, though there are instances whereby some corporate liveried vehicles feature some of the features outlined above.

Services placed under these special brands have seen market growth. Additional features (in the form of new technology) stimulates this market growth. If a service held under one of these special brands is regularly being allocated corporate liveried vehicles - either due to the lack of spare vehicles to the specification of that brand or because they are being allocated elsewhere - then one could argue that customers may look for alternative choices (if possible) and the company may not see the increase in market growth that they had predicted when submitting the capital expenditure to fund the purchase of new vehicles or the refurbishment of existing vehicles in the fleet. The fact that Ashington and Blyth have just received a further branded spare vehicle (for their "Sapphire" and "MAX" services respectively) suggests that management are looking at ways to provide a more constant allocation.

Aside from this, customer confusion is caused. I was on one of Go North East's "SimpliCity" branded Optare Versa the other day, which had been allocated to service 9. Customers on Holmeside put their hands out to signal the driver to stop the bus - not realising that the bus wasn't actually a 2/2A service.

(15 Feb 2015, 4:52 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]I wouldn't bother - they'll already know about all the odd workings  ................

And rightly so - there should be no need for input from enthusiasts, 'normal' customers, or even drivers... Systems should be in place to record all incorrect allocations for management to scrutinise, based on data submitted into an ETM. All staff employed by bus operators are (or can be) watched with the technology available nowadays - it's very much like "Big Brother."

Whether management are actually coming down hard on depots is another matter. The fact that Blyth's incorrect allocations are ongoing would suggest one of two things in my mind; that management are turning a blind eye for the alleged reason of it being done so that all services depart on-time, or that sorting the issues out isn't one of management's top priorities.