Working it out, it will be 1x spare per group of routes out of the initial 50x (1:15, 1:16, 1:16 ratios)
What will happen regarding Chester & Percy Main depots? Will they have the infrastructure or will temporary outstations / compounds be setup until newer depots are built?
(31 Oct 2021, 6:59 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Working it out, it will be 1x spare per group of routes out of the initial 50x (1:15, 1:16, 1:16 ratios)
What will happen regarding Chester & Percy Main depots? Will they have the infrastructure or will temporary outstations / compounds be setup until newer depots are built?
I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
So if successful, that could see the Angel moved from Chester Le Street to Riverside? Unless the longer term plan will be to close Chester Le Street with services potentially being split between Washington/Riverside/Consett.
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
Looking at the document, it looks as though they're planning on getting the BYD ADL Enviro400EVs, since I can't seem to see any other 10.9m EV deckers.
As for the single deckers, they'll probably stick with the Yutongs for fleet standardisation, with the 9m single deckers probably being Solo EVs
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
Which now only has the V1/V2/V3 unless we see routes added in the future? Or they've amended the order and the PDF hasn't been updated.
Edit: looks like March 2022 when they'll find out if the bid is successful.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
surely will see a lot of dead mileage for the amount of runs that start at Chester le Street. Tho the odd workings when the electrics inevitably have issues might be interesting!
Pre covid there, in fact probably 2015-7ish there was talk of CLS closing and a new depot at Drum Industrial Estate but it never happened. It would be sensible considering CLS can’t be expanded and doesn’t look future ready though I imagine it’s a large capital outlay at a time when they haven’t got much but they could merge Washington and CLS into Drum or another early site.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
There can't be much of Chester-le-Street left, if the 21 moves to Riverside? Although I appreciate that is what the document suggests.
I wonder if the age of the CLS depot has anything to do with it, along with the viability of getting charging equipment in place for EVs?
(01 Nov 2021, 12:42 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]surely will see a lot of dead mileage for the amount of runs that start at Chester le Street. Tho the odd workings when the electrics inevitably have issues might be interesting!
Pre covid there, in fact probably 2015-7ish there was talk of CLS closing and a new depot at Drum Industrial Estate but it never happened. It would be sensible considering CLS can’t be expanded and doesn’t look future ready though I imagine it’s a large capital outlay at a time when they haven’t got much but they could merge Washington and CLS into Drum or another early site.
I'd guess a lot of those Chester-le-Street starting runs happen because that is where the depot is. If the 21 moved to Riverside, they'll probably just start earlier in Newcastle or Gateshead, rather than having to make the light journey to Chester-le-Street.
(01 Nov 2021, 10:18 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]There can't be much of Chester-le-Street left, if the 21 moves to Riverside? Although I appreciate that is what the document suggests.
I wonder if the age of the CLS depot has anything to do with it, along with the viability of getting charging equipment in place for EVs?
I'd guess a lot of those Chester-le-Street starting runs happen because that is where the depot is. If the 21 moved to Riverside, they'll probably just start earlier in Newcastle or Gateshead, rather than having to make the light journey to Chester-le-Street.
I could see CLS depot closing in the future tbh especially if the 21 moves to Riverside, pretty much everything they operate could easily be done out of other depots, only real awkward ones are the 34/71 for driver changeovers.
Could maybe add a few extra X22 trips to save on some dead milage too.
(01 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I could see CLS depot closing in the future tbh especially if the 21 moves to Riverside, pretty much everything they operate could easily be done out of other depots, only real awkward ones are the 34/71 for driver changeovers.
Could maybe add a few extra X22 trips to save on some dead milage too.
If the NatEx & Stagecoach merger happens it has already been suggested within Busways that Walkergate would be the depot for both brands. Guess that would be a significant loss to Chester.
(01 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I could see CLS depot closing in the future tbh especially if the 21 moves to Riverside, pretty much everything they operate could easily be done out of other depots, only real awkward ones are the 34/71 for driver changeovers.
Could maybe add a few extra X22 trips to save on some dead milage too.
If any route will have trouble it will be the X21 unless they reopen an outstation somewhere. It already has 18 mile dead runs in the morning / evening, if CLS goes then that'll be extended to 29 mile. That's nearly another hour added on daily doing dead runs.
Similar the 21 with it's dead runs.
It's easy enough to say to run them from Newcastle in the morning but you might aswell call it a dead run as it won't pick anyone up since no-one wants to go to CLS / Bishop, similar to Newcastle late in an evening. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of the later / early runs disappear.
(01 Nov 2021, 5:44 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]If any route will have trouble it will be the X21 unless they reopen an outstation somewhere. It already has 18 mile dead runs in the morning / evening, if CLS goes then that'll be extended to 29 mile. That's nearly another hour added on daily doing dead runs.
Similar the 21 with it's dead runs.
It's easy enough to say to run them from Newcastle in the morning but you might aswell call it a dead run as it won't pick anyone up since no-one wants to go to CLS / Bishop, similar to Newcastle late in an evening. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of the later / early runs disappear.
It's an interesting one that - particularly if punters are using the 21 as part of a 'spoke' coming out from a hub.
A few years back, they cut early morning 71 and 34 runs from the outlying areas, in to Chester. Obviously not as popular as they anticipated/hoped/wanted.
Naturally, it meant there was an impact on the 21. What may have been a 'just about' viable run, picking up those transferring from a 34 or 71, suddenly didn't have those particular passengers any more. Removing the ability for those 1, 2, 3 or 4 people transferring is easily enough to take a board teetering on the brink, in to the red.
Needless to say, there were reductions in those early morning 21 runs not too long afterwards.
(It goes without saying that those passengers relying on the 34 or 71 to get to work in Chester weren't given much choice either like).
If they are going to look at curtailing some runs at certain times of the day, I think they need to make an informed decision about the knock on effect with their other services this time.
Whether those other services come before or after a 21.
(01 Nov 2021, 12:16 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Which now only has the V1/V2/V3 unless we see routes added in the future? Or they've amended the order and the PDF hasn't been updated.
Edit: looks like March 2022 when they'll find out if the bid is successful.
The PDF document was just an expression of interest in the scheme - the actual bid should go in during January according to the ZEBRA scheme details.
(01 Nov 2021, 5:44 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]If any route will have trouble it will be the X21 unless they reopen an outstation somewhere. It already has 18 mile dead runs in the morning / evening, if CLS goes then that'll be extended to 29 mile. That's nearly another hour added on daily doing dead runs.
Similar the 21 with it's dead runs.
It's easy enough to say to run them from Newcastle in the morning but you might aswell call it a dead run as it won't pick anyone up since no-one wants to go to CLS / Bishop, similar to Newcastle late in an evening. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of the later / early runs disappear.
GNE could perhaps operate it out of Consett. Consett to WA is roughly the same distance via the A68 as from CLS. Consett bait room (similar to old North Shields office) at Chester Le Street with perhaps the 8 also being operated by Consett to make it worthwhile.
Some early morning & evening dead runs could be positioned out/in via the X45/X46/X70/X71/X72 (no X30/X31 due to low bridge) with a changeover at Chester Le Street before / after depending on driver hours.
(01 Nov 2021, 6:57 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]GNE could perhaps operate it out of Consett. Consett to WA is roughly the same distance via the A68 as from CLS. Consett bait room (similar to old North Shields office) at Chester Le Street with perhaps the 8 also being operated by Consett to make it worthwhile.
Some early morning & evening dead runs could be positioned out/in via the X45/X46/X70/X71/X72 (no X30/X31 due to low bridge) with a changeover at Chester Le Street before / after depending on driver hours.
Perhaps it could be jointly operated by Consett and Riverside?
(01 Nov 2021, 6:59 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Perhaps it could be jointly operated by Consett and Riverside?
Dead mileage wise, there wouldn't be much difference between Consett and currently CLS operating it.
Don't GNE have the bait room at Stanley still for some changeovers that happen in Stanley? The logistics of an additional bait room in Chester Le Street wouldn't be too difficult.
Not forgetting enhanced BSOG compliant 'X-Lines' vehicles could be used on Sundays too (StreetDeck G2/G3 or E400MMC)
(01 Nov 2021, 7:04 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Dead mileage wise, there wouldn't be much difference between Consett and currently CLS operating it.
Don't GNE have the bait room at Stanley still for some changeovers that happen in Stanley? The logistics of an additional bait room in Chester Le Street wouldn't be too difficult.
Not forgetting enhanced BSOG compliant 'X-Lines' vehicles could be used on Sundays too (StreetDeck G2/G3 or E400MMC)
Aye your right about distance not sure I'd want to drive a double decker bus along the A68 via Tow Law in the winter though at 5/6am in the morning. It's like the wild west across there in the snow. Not a place you want a double decker stuck.
(01 Nov 2021, 9:04 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye your right about distance not sure I'd want to drive a double decker bus along the A68 via Tow Law in the winter though at 5/6am in the morning. It's like the wild west across there in the snow. Not a place you want a double decker stuck.
That's actually a very valid point! Not forgetting getting out of Consett during the snow is bad enough itself!
(31 Oct 2021, 11:54 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Looking at the document, it looks as though they're planning on getting the BYD ADL Enviro400EVs, since I can't seem to see any other 10.9m EV deckers.
As for the single deckers, they'll probably stick with the Yutongs for fleet standardisation, with the 9m single deckers probably being Solo EVs
It's sort of confirmed in the document that it is E400 EVs they're planning for. They've failed to fully redact the vehicle type on page 19.
(02 Nov 2021, 7:13 am)cainebj wrote [ -> ]It's sort of confirmed in the document that it is E400 EVs they're planning for. They've failed to fully redact the vehicle type on page 19.
Managed to completely miss that!
How they can say it's the most suitable vehicle for the routes without having even tried it yet is beyond me!
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
I’m sure the depot issue is something GNE will sort if they win, they’d see it as a nice problem to have.
The alternative is saying The Angel runs from Chester, that doesn’t have electric charging facilities so let’s not bother bidding.
If the 21 went to Riverside, they could move something like the 6 to Consett, the 8/78 fully to Chester, or maybe even the X5/X15, or maybe move the X9/X10 to Chester meaning all coaches would be together with the NatEx ones or move something to Washington and the 50 to Chester, Nothing is impossible.
(03 Nov 2021, 8:22 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]I’m sure the depot issue is something GNE will sort if they win, they’d see it as a nice problem to have.
The alternative is saying The Angel runs from Chester, that doesn’t have electric charging facilities so let’s not bother bidding.
If the 21 went to Riverside, they could move something like the 6 to Consett, the 8/78 fully to Chester, or maybe even the X5/X15, or maybe move the X9/X10 to Chester meaning all coaches would be together with the NatEx ones or move something to Washington and the 50 to Chester, Nothing is impossible.
Percy Main doesn't have electric charging either though and it seems quite a tight depot to be able to add it in as it is. Not sure why having CLS would be an issue even if it wasn't planned to be there.
(03 Nov 2021, 8:22 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]I’m sure the depot issue is something GNE will sort if they win, they’d see it as a nice problem to have.
The alternative is saying The Angel runs from Chester, that doesn’t have electric charging facilities so let’s not bother bidding.
If the 21 went to Riverside, they could move something like the 6 to Consett, the 8/78 fully to Chester, or maybe even the X5/X15, or maybe move the X9/X10 to Chester meaning all coaches would be together with the NatEx ones or move something to Washington and the 50 to Chester, Nothing is impossible.
The 6 moving to Chester Le Street and interworking with the 25 would be the most obvious interworking pattern although there'd be pitfalls such as traffic hotspots on both routes, meaning that should anything kick off around the MetroCentre or Swalwell, passengers on the 25 would lose out.
Saying that.........if the X30's / X70's interworking pattern proved to become too tight and ended up going standalone (X70/X71/X72 = 7x) & (X30/X31 = 5x), the X30/X31 could be moved to Chester Le Street also taking into account that CLS is closer to Stanley than Consett.
(04 Nov 2021, 11:36 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]The 6 moving to Chester Le Street and interworking with the 25 would be the most obvious interworking pattern although there'd be pitfalls such as traffic hotspots on both routes, meaning that should anything kick off around the MetroCentre or Swalwell, passengers on the 25 would lose out.
Saying that.........if the X30's / X70's interworking pattern proved to become too tight and ended up going standalone (X70/X71/X72 = 7x) & (X30/X31 = 5x), the X30/X31 could be moved to Chester Le Street also taking into account that CLS is closer to Stanley than Consett.
6 & 25 wouldn't be ideal at all as its practically on the edge of max driving hours before a break must be taken on the runs that extend to Lanchester plus what would the 12 interwork with to avoid having to do staff shuttles up to Blaydon or Winlaton?
(05 Nov 2021, 12:48 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]6 & 25 wouldn't be ideal at all as its practically on the edge of max driving hours before a break must be taken on the runs that extend to Lanchester plus what would the 12 interwork with to avoid having to do staff shuttles up to Blaydon or Winlaton?
6 & 25 could have mixed changeovers in Chester Le Street and Stanley.
If Riverside was to take on the 21, CLS could remain operational with some movements.
Route / Depot Changes:
- 21 > Riverside
- 6 > CLS - Interworks with revised 25
- X30/X31 > CLS (X70/X71/X72 remain at Consett & standalone from X30/X31)
Note that Consett have gained the 78 which they didn't previously have.
Service changes:
- 6 - Stanley to Newcastle only. Stanley to Lanchester replaced by revised X31.
- 25 - CLS to Newcastle only*
* Something would need to replace part or all of the Langley Park to CLS section.
- X30 - Extended to Langley Park via South Stanley, Craghead, Edmonsley, Sacriston and Witton Gilbert.
- X31 - 1ph extended to Lanchester from Stanley via current 6 route.
(07 Nov 2021, 9:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]If Riverside was to take on the 21, CLS could remain operational with some movements.
Route / Depot Changes:
- 21 > Riverside
- 6 > CLS - Interworks with revised 25
- X30/X31 > CLS (X70/X71/X72 remain at Consett & standalone from X30/X31)
Note that Consett have gained the 78 which they didn't previously have.
Service changes:
- 6 - Stanley to Newcastle only. Stanley to Lanchester replaced by revised X31.
- 25 - CLS to Newcastle only*
* Something would need to replace part or all of the Langley Park to CLS section.
- X30 - Extended to Langley Park via South Stanley, Craghead, Edmonsley, Sacriston and Witton Gilbert.
- X31 - 1ph extended to Lanchester from Stanley via current 6 route.
You could do a loop
Newcastle - Metrocentre - Stanley - Lanchester - Langley Park - Chester - Le - Street. 6/7
(07 Nov 2021, 9:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]If Riverside was to take on the 21, CLS could remain operational with some movements.
Route / Depot Changes:
- 21 > Riverside
- 6 > CLS - Interworks with revised 25
- X30/X31 > CLS (X70/X71/X72 remain at Consett & standalone from X30/X31)
Note that Consett have gained the 78 which they didn't previously have.
Service changes:
- 6 - Stanley to Newcastle only. Stanley to Lanchester replaced by revised X31.
- 25 - CLS to Newcastle only*
* Something would need to replace part or all of the Langley Park to CLS section.
- X30 - Extended to Langley Park via South Stanley, Craghead, Edmonsley, Sacriston and Witton Gilbert.
- X31 - 1ph extended to Lanchester from Stanley via current 6 route.
What that also mean that 309/310/311 would have to move to Riverside.
Speculation around, and suggested mass movements of services between depots, has nothing to do with the ZEBRA zero-emission buses scheme... just saying
(08 Nov 2021, 9:24 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Speculation around, and suggested mass movements of services between depots, has nothing to do with the ZEBRA zero-emission buses scheme... just saying
Technically does if CLS doesn't have the infrastructure to support EV. Might be worth creating another thread though.