https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...508066.amp
- New bus stop locations would be provided in Market Street, John Dobson Street, and Grainger Street
This will just cause chaos, there won't be enough avaliable bus stops without serious road improvements. You could Use St Mary's Place and St Thomas Street though.
(07 Sep 2021, 9:27 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...508066.amp
- New bus stop locations would be provided in Market Street, John Dobson Street, and Grainger Street
This will just cause chaos, there won't be enough avaliable bus stops without serious road improvements. You could Use St Mary's Place and St Thomas Street though.
Market Street is already starting to get a bit crowded with all the GNE services and the few Stagecoach ones that already use it. It's almost like Newcastle needs a third, bigger, more appropriate sized bus station.
(07 Sep 2021, 9:27 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...508066.amp
- New bus stop locations would be provided in Market Street, John Dobson Street, and Grainger Street
This will just cause chaos, there won't be enough avaliable bus stops without serious road improvements. You could Use St Mary's Place and St Thomas Street though.
St Mary's Place Westbound would be just be as bad as it's where the 306/308/309/310/311 buses wait if they're running early instead of going into Haymarket and blocking the stands at the end. The times are quite tight on the 2 stands and the Morpeth and Ashington expresses are down there aswell. Eastbound doesn't really have much space either.
I'm guessing it's Eastbound the extra stops though probably outside the British Legion (Grainger Street) and more at the end of Grey Street, not really much more space for them.
(07 Sep 2021, 9:29 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]Market Street is already starting to get a bit crowded with all the GNE services and the few Stagecoach ones that already use it. It's almost like Newcastle needs a third, bigger, more appropriate sized bus station.
I agree, but Market Street feels a lot safer than Blackett Street does.
The way Blackett Street was redesigned years ago, it gives the perception that it's already pedestrianised, with the single level pavement/road. That is evident from the way people just drift out across, despite buses coming hurtling towards them. There's been times I've been stood photographing there, and you could quite easily count a near miss every other minute, if you were keeping a record.
(07 Sep 2021, 9:59 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I agree, but Market Street feels a lot safer than Blackett Street does.
The way Blackett Street was redesigned years ago, it gives the perception that it's already pedestrianised, with the single level pavement/road. That is evident from the way people just drift out across, despite buses coming hurtling towards them. There's been times I've been stood photographing there, and you could quite easily count a near miss every other minute, if you were keeping a record.
Yes completely agree, never been a fan of driving a bus through there, even though I've only done it on diversions and Metro Replacements. Not quite as bad as driving down the Bigg Market at 3 o'clock in the morning mind.
(07 Sep 2021, 9:27 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...508066.amp
- New bus stop locations would be provided in Market Street, John Dobson Street, and Grainger Street
This will just cause chaos, there won't be enough avaliable bus stops without serious road improvements. You could Use St Mary's Place and St Thomas Street though.
New bus stop location. Doesn't the entire of market Street have a bus stops everywhere
John Dobson Street is already crowded with everything coming of the Tyne Bridge
To be fare all the same moans and groans were mentioned on the Chronicles letter page back when Northumberland street was pedestrianised. I'm old enough to remember when the buses ran down there and it was a lot worse than blacket street is now.
The trial events which took place when the world was 'normal' and traffc was much much greater went off without too much disruption.
(08 Sep 2021, 10:06 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]The trial events which took place when the world was 'normal' and traffc was much much greater went off without too much disruption.
Indeed they did. What is true is that the waiting environments need to be massively upgraded on the 'bus loop' for the extra walking distance to be worth it.
(07 Sep 2021, 9:59 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I agree, but Market Street feels a lot safer than Blackett Street does.
The way Blackett Street was redesigned years ago, it gives the perception that it's already pedestrianised, with the single level pavement/road. That is evident from the way people just drift out across, despite buses coming hurtling towards them. There's been times I've been stood photographing there, and you could quite easily count a near miss every other minute, if you were keeping a record.
The near misses aren't new. I was one myself when I worked on Blackett Street, in the late 80s. I almost had "she were wiped out by the Dumpling Hall bus" on my premature grave.
Extract from the proposals for city centre traffic changes on the Newcastle City Council website, relating to buses:
Blackett Street, New Bridge Street West and Pilgrim Street would be closed to buses. This map details proposed changes to the bus stops.
![[Image: 6f0b9aa2-6efb-425f-847a-172eb5928d9c-jpeg.2084181]](https://www.skyscrapercity.com/attachments/6f0b9aa2-6efb-425f-847a-172eb5928d9c-jpeg.2084181/)
Proposed changes to bus operations include:
Relocation of buses from Blackett Street, the northern section of Pilgrim Street and New Bridge Street West onto surrounding roads. This would effectively create a ‘bus loop’ around the core of the city centre. This central area would then be focused on people, with limited access for vehicles. The surrounding roads would then include:
- Grainger Street
- John Dobson Street
- Market Street
- Newgate Street
- Percy Street
- St Mary's Place
New and/or improved stops would be provided in the following locations:
- Grainger Street
- Grey Street (north)
- John Dobson Street
- Market Street
- Newgate Street
Shelters and seating would be provided as far as possible in new / improved stop locations.
LINK:
City centre improvements | Newcastle City Council
Just makes me groan at the thought of competing with all these different buses for space on already congested streets. Not to mention the various Private Hires *cough*Ubers*cough* that think it's fine to just wait wherever they please for a fare.
I know Blackett Street isn't exactly great for pedestrian safety, especially around the Monument, but I don't see how moving the congestion elsewhere is going to really help the city itself, especially when they're trying to introduce a Clean Air Zone.
(20 Sep 2021, 4:21 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]Extract from the proposals for city centre traffic changes on the Newcastle City Council website, relating to buses:
Blackett Street, New Bridge Street West and Pilgrim Street would be closed to buses. This map details proposed changes to the bus stops.
Proposed changes to bus operations include:
Relocation of buses from Blackett Street, the northern section of Pilgrim Street and New Bridge Street West onto surrounding roads. This would effectively create a ‘bus loop’ around the core of the city centre. This central area would then be focused on people, with limited access for vehicles. The surrounding roads would then include:- Grainger Street
- John Dobson Street
- Market Street
- Newgate Street
- Percy Street
- St Mary's Place
New and/or improved stops would be provided in the following locations:- Grainger Street
- Grey Street (north)
- John Dobson Street
- Market Street
- Newgate Street
Shelters and seating would be provided as far as possible in new / improved stop locations.
LINK: City centre improvements | Newcastle City Council
Newcastle City Council have to make the bus routes bus only, hackney carriages only Grainger Street/Clayton Street/Westgate Road. Deliveries up to 10am. Stop all private cars/fake taxis. Thats the only way the streets could cope with the extra buses. They haven't the spine or the common sense to do so.
(21 Sep 2021, 5:57 am)54APhotography wrote [ -> ]Newcastle City Council have to make the bus routes bus only, hackney carriages only Grainger Street/Clayton Street/Westgate Road. Deliveries up to 10am. Stop all private cars/fake taxis. Thats the only way the streets could cope with the extra buses. They haven't the spine or the common sense to do so.
The majority of city centre roads are restricted to just buses and taxis though. Restricting the other roads would have a significant impact on those who actually live or operate their business from the places on the side streets, or for those with limited mobility who rely on disabled parking spaces. But let's make it all about the sodding buses without weighing in the consequences for other people.
(21 Sep 2021, 6:18 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]The majority of city centre roads are restricted to just buses and taxis though. Restricting the other roads would have a significant impact on those who actually live or operate their business from the places on the side streets, or for those with limited mobility who rely on disabled parking spaces. But let's make it all about the sodding buses without weighing in the consequences for other people.
The consequences to those you mention are exaggerated by the forcing of buses onto a few routes simply to pedestrianize a small part of the actual red zone. If sense was applied studies of cities with similar demographics would have been undertaken with due diligence.
all the above moans/complaints came up when they stopped traffic on Northumberland street back in the late 80's?.. way before most of the people on here's time. But i remember on numerous occasion nearly getting hit by buses running down there... you wouldn't think of de-pedestrianizing it now though ??
(21 Sep 2021, 7:31 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]all the above moans/complaints came up when they stopped traffic on Northumberland street back in the late 80's?.. way before most of the people on here's time. But i remember on numerous occasion nearly getting hit by buses running down there... you wouldn't think of de-pedestrianizing it now though ??
Northumberland Street makes sense as it has a majority of shops on it, the same cannot be said for Blackett Street, Pilgrim Street, or New Birdge Street.
(21 Sep 2021, 12:14 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]Northumberland Street makes sense as it has a majority of shops on it, the same cannot be said for Blackett Street, Pilgrim Street, or New Birdge Street.
Very true but its not about the shops really - its about pedestrians being able to walk safely along that corridor which was the reason Northumberland street was done in the late 80s.. All those complaining are bringing up the same thing that were mentioned all those years ago... too many buses at certain stops, less vehicle access etc etc
(21 Sep 2021, 12:14 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]Northumberland Street makes sense as it has a majority of shops on it, the same cannot be said for Blackett Street, Pilgrim Street, or New Birdge Street.
As the City Centre develops it's more about the experience of living, working and shopping in the centre, Pilgrim and NB Street, those streets are pivotal to the redevelopment of the City Centre
They've shown pre-covid they can close Blackett St wilth little disruption.
The issue is again Newcastle City Council and the PTE lack of planning. Marlborough Crescent and Worswick St haven't been replaced
(21 Sep 2021, 5:03 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]As the City Centre develops it's more about the experience of living, working and shopping in the centre, Pilgrim and NB Street, those streets are pivotal to the redevelopment of the City Centre
They've shown pre-covid they can close Blackett St wilth little disruption.
The issue is again Newcastle City Council and the PTE lack of planning. Marlborough Crescent and Worswick St haven't been replaced
Yep, a massive lack of planning and foresight. There's no way that both of those locations should have been redeveloped with a change of use.
The issue now is of course where would you put a new bus station? The site on the junction of Westmorland Road and Blandford Street would probably be most suitable, and of course not too far from the original Marlborough Crescent.
(21 Sep 2021, 6:38 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Yep, a massive lack of planning and foresight. There's no way that both of those locations should have been redeveloped with a change of use.
The issue now is of course where would you put a new bus station? The site on the junction of Westmorland Road and Blandford Street would probably be most suitable, and of course not too far from the original Marlborough Crescent.
The problem with that location is how far it is away from most of the city, I've heard a lot of criticism that the Coach Station is too far from the City Centre. Can't see anything happening unless Nexus actually start caring about bus travel and start a big push and get a lot of money to do something about it.
The old Odeon site would have been ideal for a new bus station. It would've been also theoretically possible to configure Pilgram Street the same way Bewick Street was back in the 80s. Make it all one-way southbound facing and remove the central-reservation to accommodate bus stands.
(21 Sep 2021, 6:38 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Yep, a massive lack of planning and foresight. There's no way that both of those locations should have been redeveloped with a change of use.
The issue now is of course where would you put a new bus station? The site on the junction of Westmorland Road and Blandford Street would probably be most suitable, and of course not too far from the original Marlborough Crescent.
Personally I'd go for the opposite end of town, either on the Dex Car Park, Newcastle Building Society, New Croft Centre, The Newbridge Hotel. Take your pick which as they're all eyesores and mostly abandoned.
Least the Gateshead head services can then come in straight off the Central Motorway and go out without touching Newcastle at all, if they want to use the High Level Bridge they can go via Mosley Street.
I know someone will say people don't want a bus from there but there's no issues with Haymarket at the other side of town which is just as far out the way for the main shopping places. It'd also help regenerate what's the absolute toilet end of Newcastle to be polite especially when Blackett Street and Pilgrim Street is pedestrianised, it would connect quite well.
Depending where you built it you could possibly link Manor Metro and Manors Railway stations to them aswell.
Don’t know what street what in Newcastle but is Blackett Street the one what has Eldon Square in it and the buses go under the bridge connecting the two parts of it because if it is then this really is a stupid idea.
(21 Sep 2021, 8:58 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Personally I'd go for the opposite end of town, either on the Dex Car Park, Newcastle Building Society, New Croft Centre, The Newbridge Hotel. Take your pick which as they're all eyesores and mostly abandoned.
Least the Gateshead head services can then come in straight off the Central Motorway and go out without touching Newcastle at all, if they want to use the High Level Bridge they can go via Mosley Street.
I know someone will say people don't want a bus from there but there's no issues with Haymarket at the other side of town which is just as far out the way for the main shopping places. It'd also help regenerate what's the absolute toilet end of Newcastle to be polite especially when Blackett Street and Pilgrim Street is pedestrianised, it would connect quite well.
Depending where you built it you could possibly link Manor Metro and Manors Railway stations to them aswell.
Haymarket is bang in the middle. Direct access to Eldon Sq through M&S, Northumberland St and a few minutes cut through to Blackett St.
The whole NewBridge, Pilgrim area is owned by the Reuben Bros, the dex is due to come down as part of the East Pilgrim St project, hence New Bridge St and Pilgrim St closing.
New Bridge Hotel is being demolished to become a sky scraper complex.
that whole area is on the up and developers sure as hell ain’t gonna pop a bus station in there. Newcastle Building Society sold Portland House for a huge profit last year, mid pandemic which shows you the value in the area.
Newcastle doesn’t have enough land spare or the political will. The only sites that look like they will open up are Forth Banks area and the arena but if Marlborough Crescent was too far, these are even worse.
Could more buses use St Thomas Street.
(21 Sep 2021, 10:48 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Haymarket is bang in the middle. Direct access to Eldon Sq through M&S, Northumberland St and a few minutes cut through to Blackett St.
The whole NewBridge, Pilgrim area is owned by the Reuben Bros, the dex is due to come down as part of the East Pilgrim St project, hence New Bridge St and Pilgrim St closing.
New Bridge Hotel is being demolished to become a sky scraper complex.
that whole area is on the up and developers sure as hell ain’t gonna pop a bus station in there. Newcastle Building Society sold Portland House for a huge profit last year, mid pandemic which shows you the value in the area.
Newcastle doesn’t have enough land spare or the political will. The only sites that look like they will open up are Forth Banks area and the arena but if Marlborough Crescent was too far, these are even worse.
Forgot about the hotel plan for the Newbridge site mind it's a bit fantasy. It's not the Rueben brothers that though I don't believe, it's owned by someone else's name who's totally gone.
See I think a bus station at the other end of town is pointless and isn't going to fix anything. The Redheugh Bridge buses all go to Eldon Square and the Stagecoach services still need to get across town so it's not fixing the Market Street / Blackett Street problem and Stagecoach won't use it anyway as it's a massive diversion for the 62/63 etc.
Worsick is the problem bus station but like you said there's no political will to even attempt to do something never mind the space problem which mind has only been a problem til recently.