(07 Apr 2022, 10:45 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]There's only 2 real viable options.
Divert over Redheugh (which is already heavily congested) and a potential bus lane along Askew Road towards Gateshead.
Restore the Wellington Street bus link and send traffic over the Tyne Bridge.
Gateshead have made such an utter pigs ear of their road network that its probably going to take a total remodel. They are by far the most wasteful and incompetent of the local authorities - they love a good white elephant (Centrelink, the entire town centre, the bus gate and the Angel Park and Ride)
I was going to say the swing bridge, but you would need to have the roads on the toon side changed so you could right turn off the close if you wanted services to serve Central Station.
(07 Apr 2022, 11:46 am)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]I was going to say the swing bridge, but you would need to have the roads on the toon side changed so you could right turn off the close if you wanted services to serve Central Station.
Could go up Side, Dean Street and then past the cathedral, or run via Forth Street in a single decker.
I reckon when the time comes then a southbound bus lane should be added to the Tyne Bridge, extended from the bus-only slip from the Swan House roundabout (which is likely set for major reconfiguration in future anyway), then Gateshead need to sort some bus priority measures for getting buses from the Tyne Bridge up into the interchange.
The “mega-junction” on the Gateshead side needs seriously simplifying anyway as it takes up too much land and currently causes a huge barrier between the town and Quays.
Having southbound buses heading over the Tyne Bridge could also accommodate bus stops to service the new arena & proposed Gateshead Quays Station which would both only be a few mins walk away.
Maybe the people who didn't know what a bus gate is (for those travelling into Durham, that lane by Greggs in Fram is one) had this in mind
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresti...ndroid_app&utm_source=share
Gateshead needs to invest in road signs, outside the town (is it still a metropolitan Borough) centre so drivers from elsewhere don't end up doing ridiculous loops to avoid getting snarled up in the bus lanes.
(07 Apr 2022, 10:48 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Maybe the people who didn't know what a bus gate is (for those travelling into Durham, that lane by Greggs in Fram is one) had this in mind https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresti...ndroid_app&utm_source=share
Gateshead needs to invest in road signs, outside the town (is it still a metropolitan Borough) centre so drivers from elsewhere don't end up doing ridiculous loops to avoid getting snarled up in the bus lanes.
More chance of them not pissing money up the walls on pointless schemes than them investing in something useful.
A lot of signage in and around the town centre is illegal and non-prescribed. Plenty of unenforceable bus lanes or road closures because of it, but obviously they make sure they do it by the book when there's a camera watching over it...
There's an apparent anti-car agenda from the council which is doing nothing but damaging the borough. The public transport network has failed, they continuously close major car parks popular with visitors, introduce charges/permits to others...and then the absurd changes to the already at capacity road network.
(08 Apr 2022, 6:10 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]There's an apparent anti-car agenda from the council which is doing nothing but damaging the borough. The public transport network has failed, they continuously close major car parks popular with visitors, introduce charges/permits to others...and then the absurd changes to the already at capacity road network.
You must be living under a rock if you think these things are unique to Gateshead or indeed the North East.
Its not the 60’s anymore where car is king. Sustainable and public transport is being prioritised now in cities nationwide. We have a health and climate emergency to address.
Do you want to explain to your kids and grandkids what changes were made to improve our & their future one day or admit we sat back spinning the old anti-car agenda line.
(08 Apr 2022, 7:05 am)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]You must be living under a rock if you think these things are unique to Gateshead or indeed the North East.
Its not the 60’s anymore where car is king. Sustainable and public transport is being prioritised now in cities nationwide. We have a health and climate emergency to address.
Do you want to explain to your kids and grandkids what changes were made to improve our & their future one day or admit we sat back spinning the old anti-car agenda line.
A failed public transport network is being prioritised over the 70+% of those who choose to drive instead. It may work elsewhere but it doesn't work here because of the lack of decent services.
It's all well and good having a bus lane that lets 5 people get there 10 minutes before everyone else, but what about the other 100 people in that queue who couldn't get on that bus because it's too expensive, they didn't know it was going to turn up...or doesn't even run from where they live!
Within city centres, e-scooter and bike hire schemes meet people's needs if they can afford it.
Park and rides work if there's actually a decent level of service provision, there's no unnecessary costs to the customer and it's accessible. We have multiple park and rides for Newcastle that aren't properly promoted, are half-arsed or cost more than driving all the way, yet those making the decisions want more?!
(08 Apr 2022, 8:58 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]A failed public transport network is being prioritised over the 70+% of those who choose to drive instead. It may work elsewhere but it doesn't work here because of the lack of decent services.
It's all well and good having a bus lane that lets 5 people get there 10 minutes before everyone else, but what about the other 100 people in that queue who couldn't get on that bus because it's too expensive, they didn't know it was going to turn up...or doesn't even run from where they live!
Within city centres, e-scooter and bike hire schemes meet people's needs if they can afford it.
Park and rides work if there's actually a decent level of service provision, there's no unnecessary costs to the customer and it's accessible. We have multiple park and rides for Newcastle that aren't properly promoted, are half-arsed or cost more than driving all the way, yet those making the decisions want more?!
The biggest problem with the Tyne Bridge traffic is it seems that no-one has actually bothered to see where the traffic is going.
You could put a P&R every 0.5 mile going to Newcastle and Gateshead. The catch-22 is the majority of the traffic going over the Tyne Bridge is likely to be travelling from the likes of Byker, Wallsend and Walker towards the Metro Centre and Team Valley or alternatively from Bensham, Saltwell, Teams towards Cobalt and Quorum.
Theres absolutely no alternative for those people unless they want to change buses twice or take a 10 mile diversion including a £1.70 toll at the tunnel.
Agreed with your comments that Gateshead are clueless 100%.
Money aside we badly need a new bridge along the line of the never built Friars Goose Crossing but we're more arsed about spending it on fantasy Consett lines and car parks in Newcastle and Gateshead which is ironic.
(08 Apr 2022, 8:58 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]A failed public transport network is being prioritised over the 70+% of those who choose to drive instead. It may work elsewhere but it doesn't work here because of the lack of decent services.
It's all well and good having a bus lane that lets 5 people get there 10 minutes before everyone else, but what about the other 100 people in that queue who couldn't get on that bus because it's too expensive, they didn't know it was going to turn up...or doesn't even run from where they live!
Within city centres, e-scooter and bike hire schemes meet people's needs if they can afford it.
Park and rides work if there's actually a decent level of service provision, there's no unnecessary costs to the customer and it's accessible. We have multiple park and rides for Newcastle that aren't properly promoted, are half-arsed or cost more than driving all the way, yet those making the decisions want more?!
So you’re saying prioritise those rich enough to have a car?
What about the many areas of low income where people cannot afford to buy a car, tax and insure it, fuel it and park it, and therefore have no option but to use public transport.
Where you getting your figures from too?
IMO, unless there's services using a road with a combined frequency of <5 minutes, there shouldn't be a bus lane. All they do is reduce the amount of lanes available, causing more traffic and more emissions.
(08 Apr 2022, 9:55 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The biggest problem with the Tyne Bridge traffic is it seems that no-one has actually bothered to see where the traffic is going.
You could put a P&R every 0.5 mile going to Newcastle and Gateshead. The catch-22 is the majority of the traffic going over the Tyne Bridge is likely to be travelling from the likes of Byker, Wallsend and Walker towards the Metro Centre and Team Valley or alternatively from Bensham, Saltwell, Teams towards Cobalt and Quorum.
There is a journey on the 91 from Battle Hill area to Team Valley, via Wallsend, Walker and Byker that people could use.
Provided they're prepared to get up at about 4.30am to catch it. Also there's no return trip.
Never understood the point of these kind of routes - do they just exist to suck up subsidy money from the council at minimal cost? Would be very surprised if that journey carts round much more than fresh air.
(08 Apr 2022, 8:58 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]It's all well and good having a bus lane that lets 5 people get there 10 minutes before everyone else, but what about the other 100 people in that queue who couldn't get on that bus because it's too expensive, they didn't know it was going to turn up...or doesn't even run from where they live!
For me, I've calculated going to uni today has cost me between £3.47 - £3.81 in petrol (25 mile round trip, and the car says I do 40-44MPG on average), plus £1.30 parking (total approx £4.77 - £5.11).
The bus costs £3.20 return (free travel on the 700s - would've been £4.10 for day ticket if not; don't trust mobile tickets). I only drove because I needed to get to my flat ASAP before going in to uni.
Might not be true in all cases but I'm willing to bet for most it's currently much cheaper to get the bus (provided some people can get their head out their arse and be prepared to change buses/trains). Of course, not the be all and end all - there are obvious problems with driver shortages. We also need to sort out ticketing (or rather, when was the last time you saw the Network One tickets promoted?)
"Simplified range" and in most cases only applicable to one company.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404364425043116033/961957110604791808/unknown.png)
(08 Apr 2022, 10:51 am)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]So you’re saying prioritise those rich enough to have a car?
What about the many areas of low income where people cannot afford to buy a car, tax and insure it, fuel it and park it, and therefore have no option but to use public transport.
Where you getting your figures from too?
Public transport should be prioritised when a larger majority of people use it and when the measures will be well used.
The cost of using public transport often goes beyond that of just ticket prices. Lots of low paid jobs now have 5am starts or midnight finishes, buses don't start for hours after that in some places, regardless of how close they are to major towns and cities. Often this means working less to accommodate bus times, and being paid less or not at all.
Figures were taken from a recent document published, I'm not too sure which one but it was posted somewhere on here a couple of months back.
(08 Apr 2022, 12:03 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]For me, I've calculated going to uni today has cost me between £3.47 - £3.81 in petrol (25 mile round trip, and the car says I do 40-44MPG on average), plus £1.30 parking (total approx £4.77 - £5.11).
The bus costs £3.20 return (free travel on the 700s - would've been £4.10 for day ticket if not; don't trust mobile tickets). I only drove because I needed to get to my flat ASAP before going in to uni.
Might not be true in all cases but I'm willing to bet for most it's currently much cheaper to get the bus (provided some people can get their head out their arse and be prepared to change buses/trains). Of course, not the be all and end all - there are obvious problems with driver shortages. We also need to sort out ticketing (or rather, when was the last time you saw the Network One tickets promoted?)
"Simplified range" and in most cases only applicable to one company.
Go North East have some very good prices but of course the region is bigger than just Tyne and Wear where they focus their best offering.
(08 Apr 2022, 11:03 am)F114TML wrote [ -> ]There is a journey on the 91 from Battle Hill area to Team Valley, via Wallsend, Walker and Byker that people could use.
Provided they're prepared to get up at about 4.30am to catch it. Also there's no return trip.
Never understood the point of these kind of routes - do they just exist to suck up subsidy money from the council at minimal cost? Would be very surprised if that journey carts round much more than fresh air.
Never knew that even ran still tbh. I'm guessing it's the board ran by Percy Main.
(08 Apr 2022, 11:03 am)F114TML wrote [ -> ]There is a journey on the 91 from Battle Hill area to Team Valley, via Wallsend, Walker and Byker that people could use.
Provided they're prepared to get up at about 4.30am to catch it. Also there's no return trip.
Never understood the point of these kind of routes - do they just exist to suck up subsidy money from the council at minimal cost? Would be very surprised if that journey carts round much more than fresh air.
I used to use the 91 between High Farm to Central until I started to drive a couple of years back and it was actually quite well used especially when you got to Walker / Byker. I think its main use is for Team Valley Royal Mail staff to get in for shifts but it was really useful to myself especially as it ran earlier than any of the normal service buses (even Transport staff need transport to get to work). Coming back home its not an issue for anyone to do as its just one change and plenty of ways home.
Usage may have changed with Covid but it definitely wasn't the fresh air carrier its made out to be
(08 Apr 2022, 5:50 pm)anvil1984 wrote [ -> ]I used to use the 91 between High Farm to Central until I started to drive a couple of years back and it was actually quite well used especially when you got to Walker / Byker. I think its main use is for Team Valley Royal Mail staff to get in for shifts but it was really useful to myself especially as it ran earlier than any of the normal service buses (even Transport staff need transport to get to work). Coming back home its not an issue for anyone to do as its just one change and plenty of ways home.
Usage may have changed with Covid but it definitely wasn't the fresh air carrier its made out to be
Interesting. I shall retract my 'fresh air' comments in that case but I do think they should at least try extending most/all journeys on the 91 into the Battle Hill/Percy Main area.
(08 Apr 2022, 5:50 pm)anvil1984 wrote [ -> ]I used to use the 91 between High Farm to Central until I started to drive a couple of years back and it was actually quite well used especially when you got to Walker / Byker. I think its main use is for Team Valley Royal Mail staff to get in for shifts but it was really useful to myself especially as it ran earlier than any of the normal service buses (even Transport staff need transport to get to work). Coming back home its not an issue for anyone to do as its just one change and plenty of ways home.
Usage may have changed with Covid but it definitely wasn't the fresh air carrier its made out to be
Ditto the later morning 91's.
Tried them a couple of times when doing some work at TVTE four or five years back. Picked it up from the Odeon and there was always a decent load there and Market St.
They tried it commercially circa late 2000's using Team Valley Dipper branded DAF's, running most of the day. It didn't work.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dearingbuspix/18205523142
(08 Apr 2022, 1:47 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Never knew that even ran still tbh. I'm guessing it's the board ran by Percy Main.
Yeah, since the changes it uses a Coaster Streetlite and runs onto the 1 at Gateshead.
(09 Apr 2022, 9:13 am)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Yeah, since the changes it uses a Coaster Streetlite and runs onto the 1 at Gateshead.
Used to be allocated a decker which did another 91 run then ran light to Byker to start the 18A Scholars
Is said link road now open, as it looked finished a few weeks ago?
Has it really been built just for the 27, it seems a tad over the top for one bus route?
Would it be quicker for the routes going from the High Street onto Old Durham Road to use it compared to their current route.
(14 Apr 2022, 7:55 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]Is said link road now open, as it looked finished a few weeks ago?
Has it really been built just for the 27, it seems a tad over the top for one bus route?
I think there was, many moons ago, a plan for the Old Durham Road routes to use it, certainly heading south.
Would provide a useful link to ALDI from these areas.
(14 Apr 2022, 7:55 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]Is said link road now open, as it looked finished a few weeks ago?
Has it really been built just for the 27, it seems a tad over the top for one bus route?
There's the bus gate on the A184 at Wardley and there's not much goes through there either.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RCq42zr5SRFAUe8v7
(15 Apr 2022, 10:11 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]There's the bus gate on the A184 at Wardley and there's not much goes through there either.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RCq42zr5SRFAUe8v7
The one behind Silverlink for the subsidised 19 is the worst one. I don't understand nowadays why they don't just open it for all traffic since there's no issues at Silverlink so it wouldn't be a rat run anymore. Would help with the traffic problems at the other end of Tyne Tunnel Ind. Estate which affects the 19 anyway.
(15 Apr 2022, 10:57 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ] just the 57 i think?
Yeah, I think it is.
Even the Nexus funded 558 misses the old part of Sunderland Road on its inbound trip and continues on the A184.
(15 Apr 2022, 11:03 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The one behind Silverlink for the subsidised 19 is the worst one. I don't understand nowadays why they don't just open it for all traffic since there's no issues at Silverlink so it wouldn't be a rat run anymore. Would help with the traffic problems at the other end of Tyne Tunnel Ind. Estate which affects the 19 anyway.
Yeah, I don't get that one either.
The queues to get out of the estate for drivers who will then inevitably turn north on to the A19 and ultimately contributed to the queues that led to the development of the Silverlink roundabout isn't lost on me.
Speaking of junction improvements in areas where bus operators ignore the flow of traffic (Silverlink and Testos being the obvious candidates).
As well as the now completed widening of the approaches to Doxford International A690/A19, I've noticed that the slip road off the A19 at Seaton/Seaham is being widened.
If only there was a bus service that was able to attract car users on to public transport - taking people to the places they want and need to be - all that money wouldn't need to have been spent on road widening or improvements.
Thousands of cars stuck in traffic, millions being spent on the roads and there's not one operator savvy enough to do anything about it. It genuinely blows my mind that the East - West Coast Road obsession continues, despite the clear and obvious demand for a North - South service at Silverlink.
Ditto Testos, Doxford Interchange, the Western Bypass, Seaton/Seaham, Tees flyover... The list goes on.
Never been stuck in traffic coming from Sunderland Road onto High West Street, genuinely confused as to why they're spending money on this for 5 buses an hour, 4 if they're not sending the X10 down there?
I assume that the 27 can't even use it yet because it's still registered to stop at Chad House?
(16 Apr 2022, 11:40 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Never been stuck in traffic coming from Sunderland Road onto High West Street, genuinely confused as to why they're spending money on this for 5 buses an hour, 4 if they're not sending the X10 down there?
I assume that the 27 can't even use it yet because it's still registered to stop at Chad House?
Is it not in anticipation of the Gateshead Flyover being demolished? There's a long term ambition of it being replaced with a developed Gateshead boulevard, but I'm unsure exactly how far those plans have progressed in recent times.
First time hearing about that. That'll be fun.....