The long term aim to demolish the upper level of Gateshead Highway gets mentioned every now and again on the SkyscraperCity forum - highly recommended if any of you are interested in developments and infrastructure locally (
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forums/no...land.2254/), nationally or worldwide.
As mentioned this Sunderland Rd bus link junction was created on the bottom level of Gateshead Highway (future boulevard) not only for buses to cross the highway, but also so pedestrians and cyclists could cross at-grade rather than using the old unwelcoming subways.
This will improve movement between current and future neighbourhoods and the town centre.
Imo, knocking down the upper level would be a stupid idea. At peak times both levels are completely full, where do they expect those cars to go? Especially now they've funneled all traffic down it!
Plus, I just really like the look of it.
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(17 Apr 2022, 10:30 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Imo, knocking down the upper level would be a stupid idea. At peak times both levels are completely full, where do they expect those cars to go? Especially now they've funneled all traffic down it!
Plus, I just really like the look of it.
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It’s an eyesore and causes a barrier between the areas either side.
Time to demolish it and reduce the number of cars travelling through the central Newcastle & Gateshead areas, especially those making short trips that can be done by active or public transport.
(17 Apr 2022, 10:30 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Imo, knocking down the upper level would be a stupid idea. At peak times both levels are completely full, where do they expect those cars to go? Especially now they've funneled all traffic down it!
Plus, I just really like the look of it.
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I think the reason behind it coming down is that its falling to bits. I am sure they were checking the structural integrity every few months before covid came about
(17 Apr 2022, 10:44 am)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]reduce the number of cars travelling through the central Newcastle & Gateshead areas, especially those making short trips that can be done by active or public transport.
Let's be real, that isn't going to happen any time soon.
It's just going to make traffic worse, unless they manage to reduce traffic by at least half before they even consider knocking it down
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(17 Apr 2022, 11:17 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Let's be real, that isn't going to happen any time soon.
It's just going to make traffic worse, unless they manage to reduce traffic by at least half before they even consider knocking it down
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I'd love to know the diversion route they're going to suggest for the period when they're bringing it down.
The blocking of any sort of alternative (Eastern portion of Askew Road for a start), will render Gateshead in to even more gridlock than we see currently!
(17 Apr 2022, 11:17 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Let's be real, that isn't going to happen any time soon.
It's just going to make traffic worse, unless they manage to reduce traffic by at least half before they even consider knocking it down
It won't change naturally, because what you've said is likely the attitude of most private vehicle owners, but it needs to change. Car ownership isn't going to naturally decrease due to the sheer convenience (and even availability of it), therefore it's the role of policy makers in Central and Local Governments to enact the change that's required. It'll happen, no matter how many people are dragged kicking and screaming into change.
(17 Apr 2022, 11:54 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'd love to know the diversion route they're going to suggest for the period when they're bringing it down.
The blocking of any sort of alternative (Eastern portion of Askew Road for a start), will render Gateshead in to even more gridlock than we see currently!
Reopening Hills Street (even temporarily) for buses only and temporarily reopening Askew Road (past the garage) would probably be the sensible option, but no matter how much notice the Council give, you'll still get all the masses of motorists trying to get into Newcastle that way, complaining about being stuck in traffic, without realising the irony that they're part of the problem.
(17 Apr 2022, 1:28 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It won't change naturally, because what you've said is likely the attitude of most private vehicle owners, but it needs to change. Car ownership isn't going to naturally decrease due to the sheer convenience (and even availability of it), therefore it's the role of policy makers in Central and Local Governments to enact the change that's required. It'll happen, no matter how many people are dragged kicking and screaming into change.
Reopening Hills Street (even temporarily) for buses only and temporarily reopening Askew Road (past the garage) would probably be the sensible option, but no matter how much notice the Council give, you'll still get all the masses of motorists trying to get into Newcastle that way, complaining about being stuck in traffic, without realising the irony that they're part of the problem.
Completely agree.
(17 Apr 2022, 1:28 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It won't change naturally, because what you've said is likely the attitude of most private vehicle owners, but it needs to change. Car ownership isn't going to naturally decrease due to the sheer convenience (and even availability of it), therefore it's the role of policy makers in Central and Local Governments to enact the change that's required. It'll happen, no matter how many people are dragged kicking and screaming into change.
Reopening Hills Street (even temporarily) for buses only and temporarily reopening Askew Road (past the garage) would probably be the sensible option , but no matter how much notice the Council give, you'll still get all the masses of motorists trying to get into Newcastle that way, complaining about being stuck in traffic, without realising the irony that they're part of the problem.
Looking at the plans for Gateshead in that Skyscraper City link which was shared, I'm not sure that will be an option. Or if it is, it's going to take time to undo all of the work they're planning currently.
I’m guessing if you live in Gateshead or south of Gateshead and want to travel by car to anywhere to the north east or east of Newcastle, say if you lived in Birtley, Whickham or Wrekenton and worked at Cobalt, or if you lived in Wallsend and worked at Team Valley, the only viable route they would want you to use now is via the Tyne Tunnel?
(17 Apr 2022, 7:49 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]I’m guessing if you live in Gateshead or south of Gateshead and want to travel by car to anywhere to the north east or east of Newcastle, say if you lived in Birtley, Whickham or Wrekenton and worked at Cobalt, or if you lived in Wallsend and worked at Team Valley, the only viable route they would want you to use now is via the Tyne Tunnel?
Via the A1 and A19 at Seaton Burn is also an option, albeit not convenient.
(17 Apr 2022, 7:49 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]I’m guessing if you live in Gateshead or south of Gateshead and want to travel by car to anywhere to the north east or east of Newcastle, say if you lived in Birtley, Whickham or Wrekenton and worked at Cobalt, or if you lived in Wallsend and worked at Team Valley, the only viable route they would want you to use now is via the Tyne Tunnel?
I think it's something they've been encouraging for decades to be honest.
The original realignment of the A1 at the Angel in 86 was key.
Couple the building of the Blaydon Bridge 30 odd years ago to remove the bottle neck at Scotswood and West Denton along with the eventual second tunnel (plus Testos and Silverlink improvements) and they have essentially created an Eastern bypass to go with western bypass.
Throw in a load of white paint, traffic lights and the removal of pedestrian footbridges in various spots along Durham Road means only the brave and buses venture through that way now.
(17 Apr 2022, 7:49 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]I’m guessing if you live in Gateshead or south of Gateshead and want to travel by car to anywhere to the north east or east of Newcastle, say if you lived in Birtley, Whickham or Wrekenton and worked at Cobalt, or if you lived in Wallsend and worked at Team Valley, the only viable route they would want you to use now is via the Tyne Tunnel?
Yeah, that’s my preferred route- occasionally get snarled up at Whitemare Pool but the traffic layout in Gateshead isn’t making me reconsider using my car, I just divert. It has absolutely put me off using a bus through Gateshead or visiting Tesco or the Vue.
(17 Apr 2022, 9:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I think it's something they've been encouraging for decades to be honest.
The original realignment of the A1 at the Angel in 86 was key.
Couple the building of the Blaydon Bridge 30 odd years ago to remove the bottle neck at Scotswood and West Denton along with the eventual second tunnel (plus Testos and Silverlink improvements) and they have essentially created an Eastern bypass to go with western bypass.
Throw in a load of white paint, traffic lights and the removal of pedestrian footbridges in various spots along Durham Road means only the brave and buses venture through that way now.
I agree it's been encouraged for decades, but planners must still see it as being vastly underused, when people still opt to short cut over the Tyne Bridge and central motorway for example. I think there was hope that the air quality restrictions would tackle some of this, but omitting private cars has put a bit of a spanner in the works here. Maybe it'll be dealt with when the original scheme is deemed insufficient, or maybe they'll look to tackle it in another way, e.g. congestion charging.
I'm a bit too young to remember the realignment in 86, but certainly there's been constant investment in the A1(M) between J61 at Bowburn and J80 at Seaton Burn for decades now. Then there's the projects on the A19 that you mention, plus the £265m or so that the expansion of the Tyne Tunnel cost into a second tunnel.
(17 Apr 2022, 11:54 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'd love to know the diversion route they're going to suggest for the period when they're bringing it down.
The blocking of any sort of alternative (Eastern portion of Askew Road for a start), will render Gateshead in to even more gridlock than we see currently!
Imagine it will be just Charles Street / High Street West. The way it's built they should be able to keep it open from the Tyne Bridge to the Felling Bypass roundabout and at the other end I'd imagine they'll just make the roundabout two way round either way and knock it down in sections with the Durham Road traffic pushed along Prince Consort Road.
It'll be busy but won't be that bad.
(18 Apr 2022, 10:15 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I agree it's been encouraged for decades, but planners must still see it as being vastly underused, when people still opt to short cut over the Tyne Bridge and central motorway for example. I think there was hope that the air quality restrictions would tackle some of this, but omitting private cars has put a bit of a spanner in the works here. Maybe it'll be dealt with when the original scheme is deemed insufficient, or maybe they'll look to tackle it in another way, e.g. congestion charging.
I'm a bit too young to remember the realignment in 86, but certainly there's been constant investment in the A1(M) between J61 at Bowburn and J80 at Seaton Burn for decades now. Then there's the projects on the A19 that you mention, plus the £265m or so that the expansion of the Tyne Tunnel cost into a second tunnel.
I personally think the Western Bypass was done on the cheap.
Absolutely no future proofing and the inevitable short term fixes, snarl ups and lack of public transport didn't help.
Then throw in the fact that going through Low Fell, was the traditional route and is shorter in distance for the majority of users.
The works to improve and widen it at various stages between Birtley and Westerhope will hopefully be enough going forward. But I'm not convinced.
The realignment (I say 86 - it may have been a year or so earlier) works fascinated me at the time.
The idea of switching the road direction from basically 180 degrees north/south and moving it to the left a bit (along with the other works) blew my mind.
(18 Apr 2022, 10:07 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Yeah, that’s my preferred route- occasionally get snarled up at Whitemare Pool but the traffic layout in Gateshead isn’t making me reconsider using my car, I just divert. It has absolutely put me off using a bus through Gateshead or visiting Tesco or the Vue.
It has the danger of it becoming a ghost town. Bypassed by traffic completely.
Almost like a modern day Stanley.
(18 Apr 2022, 10:20 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Imagine it will be just Charles Street / High Street West. The way it's built they should be able to keep it open from the Tyne Bridge to the Felling Bypass roundabout and at the other end I'd imagine they'll just make the roundabout two way round either way and knock it down in sections with the Durham Road traffic pushed along Prince Consort Road.
It'll be busy but won't be that bad.
You're more optimistic than I am!
(18 Apr 2022, 10:15 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I agree it's been encouraged for decades, but planners must still see it as being vastly underused, when people still opt to short cut over the Tyne Bridge and central motorway for example. I think there was hope that the air quality restrictions would tackle some of this, but omitting private cars has put a bit of a spanner in the works here. Maybe it'll be dealt with when the original scheme is deemed insufficient, or maybe they'll look to tackle it in another way, e.g. congestion charging.
I'm a bit too young to remember the realignment in 86, but certainly there's been constant investment in the A1(M) between J61 at Bowburn and J80 at Seaton Burn for decades now. Then there's the projects on the A19 that you mention, plus the £265m or so that the expansion of the Tyne Tunnel cost into a second tunnel.
The best option (but it's not cheap at all) would be to build a new bridge where the Friars Goose Crossing was planned and remove most the traffic from the centre but have it tolled to try and promote people to use public transport with the Newcastle bridges getting tolled at the same time. It would also open links to get buses going across from Walker, Wallsend, Byker and the likes to Heworth without travelling via Newcastle to give a faster service to places South, it's way too long right now having to travel 15 minutes in the wrong direction on a bus before heading in the right direction.
Not to mention the benefits of giving good links to all the industry on the Tyne around Wallsend for HGV's and try and promote some more industry along there getting jobs to the areas around there which are pretty desperate in places.
(18 Apr 2022, 10:23 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I personally think the Western Bypass was done on the cheap.
Absolutely no future proofing and the inevitable short term fixes, snarl ups and lack of public transport didn't help.
Then throw in the fact that going through Low Fell, was the traditional route and is shorter in distance for the majority of users.
The works to improve and widen it at various stages between Birtley and Westerhope will hopefully be enough going forward. But I'm not convinced.
The realignment (I say 86 - it may have been a year or so earlier) works fascinated me at the time.
The idea of switching the road direction from basically 180 degrees north/south and moving it to the left a bit (along with the other works) blew my mind.
There's even less future proofing in towns and cities, as I guess nobody foreseen the rise in popularity of the private car and ease of ownership. You've got severely limited options in town and city centre to expand highways, especially somewhere like Newcastle, which has already seen more than enough demolition for roads.
I get the argument that the traditional route is usually shorter for most road users, but those in a private vehicle have the option to take alternative routes. Public transport generally can't, and wouldn't serve people if it did.
(18 Apr 2022, 1:18 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]There's even less future proofing in towns and cities, as I guess nobody foreseen the rise in popularity of the private car and ease of ownership. You've got severely limited options in town and city centre to expand highways, especially somewhere like Newcastle, which has already seen more than enough demolition for roads.
I get the argument that the traditional route is usually shorter for most road users, but those in a private vehicle have the option to take alternative routes. Public transport generally can't, and wouldn't serve people if it did.
I'm sure they knew exactly what would happen when the biggest shopping centre in Europe was being built and the numbers of people it would attract though. Ditto with the Garden Festival in 1990 and the supposed investment that was going to bring.
Coupled with the planning for places like Retail World and the growth, improvements and development of links to the airport (metro and A696) in the same time frame.
To not factor that in, but plan for another bypass of the bypass a few years later (will see if I can find a link for that) maybe shows how limited the plans were.
Edit:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/b...0.1248441/
Just found this in skyscraper city.
Double edit: reference to the bypass for the western bypass in here
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie...php?t=1856&start=40 West via Dunston and out via Whickham.
(18 Apr 2022, 1:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'm sure they knew exactly what would happen when the biggest shopping centre in Europe was being built and the numbers of people it would attract though. Ditto with the Garden Festival in 1990 and the supposed investment that was going to bring.
Coupled with the planning for places like Retail World and the growth, improvements and development of links to the airport (metro and A696) in the same time frame.
To not factor that in, but plan for another bypass of the bypass a few years later (will see if I can find a link for that) maybe shows how limited the plans were.
Edit:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/b...0.1248441/
Just found this in skyscraper city.
Double edit: reference to the bypass for the western bypass in here https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie...php?t=1856&start=40 West via Dunston and out via Whickham.
An opportunity to post some newspaper articles that I found in Newcastle Central Library relating to the realignment of the A167/A1 (then A69) Junction at Eighton Lodge.
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attachment=10042]
And of the proposed Gateshead Western By-Pass By-Pass which was mooted a lot later than I remember (I thought it was '87ish, before the Newcastle Western By-Pass was constructed).
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attachment=10043]
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attachment=10044]
27 should start be using the bus link from tomorrow.
(19 Apr 2022, 1:02 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]An opportunity to post some newspaper articles that I found in Newcastle Central Library relating to the realignment of the A167/A1 (then A69) Junction at Eighton Lodge.
And of the proposed Gateshead Western By-Pass By-Pass which was mooted a lot later than I remember (I thought it was '87ish, before the Newcastle Western By-Pass was constructed).
Cheers. That old A69 junction at The Angel was a lot different to how I remembered it. Trying to picture its positioning now versus the current road layout.
And yeah, I remember the bypass for the bypass being mooted in the early 90s. Only a handful of years since the realignment of the A1 was completed.
(19 Apr 2022, 1:07 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]27 should start be using the bus link from tomorrow.
I think the 27 is already using it
(19 Apr 2022, 1:20 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Cheers. That old A69 junction at The Angel was a lot different to how I remembered it. Trying to picture its positioning now versus the current road layout.
And yeah, I remember the bypass for the bypass being mooted in the early 90s. Only a handful of years since the realignment of the A1 was completed.
I think part of the old alignment is still there as you come down Newcastle Bank next to the farmers field. There's currently a 'Equestrian Transfer Point' sign sitting there
isnt it time that the buses coming down old durham road used this bus gate too? I'm assuming they can go straight on at the "skate board" round a bout then take a left onto the bus gate and a right onto the high street? They wouldn't miss and stops but would miss out the junction of the civic centre and Matalan? On 58 last night which was running late. Lights were on red with 4 buses ahead and took ages to get around the corner due to loads of traffic coming from passed the glouster pub. Obviously the 28 and x1 would still used this route as they go straight on at lights?
No, any buses wishing to use the bus gate would need to drive past the old GNE depot, there's no curvature in the junction to allow turns to/from the A167 underpass.
Yeah, they'd have to take this route by the looks of things
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404364425043116033/968886432049541210/unknown.png)
Looks like 6-and-2-3s going onto to Old Durham Road and a longer route coming off it, unless they make one side of the roundabout 2-way for buses.
(27 Apr 2022, 2:03 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]No, any buses wishing to use the bus gate would need to drive past the old GNE depot, there's no curvature in the junction to allow turns to/from the A167 underpass.
ah right. wasn't sure if they could do that left turn or not so thanks for the info. Those lights at Matlan need sorting though .... maybe a right filter for the buses to get on the highstreet rather than having to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic or going through on red
I was on the X24 yesterday and it went via this 'new' bus gate. It did speed up the journey (or felt like it at least) and the X24 was able to pull up at Gateshead High Street 2 mins early, so this would be good for catching up with timings if they didn't change.