(08 Jan 2023, 10:16 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]I'm thinking with the 51. If they do cut it from Holystone. They should at least extend it to Northumberland Park to give people that connection to continue on to Whitley Bay
I guess it all depends on whether it would have time to go to Northumberland Park. I suspect not.
(08 Jan 2023, 10:16 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]I'm thinking with the 51. If they do cut it from Holystone. They should at least extend it to Northumberland Park to give people that connection to continue on to Whitley Bay
I have a feeling it'll be ditched altogether and I don't blame them unless it's making money which I highly doubt. The remaining half of the 51 is operationally out of area, the Arriva operational area of the route is Holystone -> Whitley Bay so unless they take it on commercially there's not much to lose as none of their core network is affected at all.
Losing the likes of Wiltshire Drive and Benton ASDA won't matter as they don't serve it anyway as it's a GNE area or should be, the resources could be used to get the 53 back upto every 30 minutes instead which is their operational area and would benefit people more with connections at Shiremoor or Palmersville for the punters who are losing the 51 in Holystone / West Allotment.
(09 Jan 2023, 10:51 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]I have a feeling it'll be ditched altogether and I don't blame them unless it's making money which I highly doubt. The remaining half of the 51 is operationally out of area, the Arriva operational area of the route is Holystone -> Whitley Bay so unless they take it on commercially there's not much to lose as none of their core network is affected at all.
Losing the likes of Wiltshire Drive and Benton ASDA won't matter as they don't serve it anyway as it's a GNE area or should be, the resources could be used to get the 53 back upto every 30 minutes instead which is their operational area and would benefit people more with connections at Shiremoor or Palmersville for the punters who are losing the 51 in Holystone / West Allotment.
I remember when GNE operated the 307 from Newcastle to Benton ASDA - and then Arriva introduced the 51 in competition, it was timed to depart around 10 minutes before the 307 so I'd imagine this caused with withdrawal of that.
Then again, it would have probably gone by now anyway!
(09 Jan 2023, 11:55 am)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]I remember when GNE operated the 307 from Newcastle to Benton ASDA - and then Arriva introduced the 51 in competition, it was timed to depart around 10 minutes before the 307 so I'd imagine this caused with withdrawal of that.
Then again, it would have probably gone by now anyway!
I can remember that, it's always been an awkward place Wiltshire Drive with numerous routes every other week, the 51 admit lasting quite a while for once. Nothing seems to work there at all. I'm guessing people just don't use buses there and I'm not exactly surprised with a token hourly service to Newcastle tbh.
Bizarrely Hadrian Park which is as awkward always has loads of buses and half of them are empty pretty much.
(09 Jan 2023, 12:20 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I can remember that, it's always been an awkward place Wiltshire Drive with numerous routes every other week, the 51 admit lasting quite a while for once. Nothing seems to work there at all. I'm guessing people just don't use buses there and I'm not exactly surprised with a token hourly service to Newcastle tbh.
Bizarrely Hadrian Park which is as awkward always has loads of buses and half of them are empty pretty much.
Easiest option to sort Hadrian Park & Wiltshire Drive out if the rumored changes to the 306/308/309/310 are happening would be.........
22 - every 20 minutes as now to Cobalt
22A - every 20 minutes to Hadrian Park
309 - every 20 minutes and as now but via High Farm
310 - every 20 minutes and as now but via Wiltshire Drive with the 22A completely picking up Hadrian Park to replace the 311
(07 Jan 2023, 5:15 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]25 and 29 are probably Nexus I'd imagine.
25 is Nexus Funded for a certain extension of the journey, not the whole route.
I'm never sure why there's a clamour on here to reinvent the Coast Road routes.
They've been largely untouched throughout the chaos which suggests they make money and demand is there - so why is there almost a constant clamour to re-route or jig them (which is ironically what many of us criticise the life out of GNE for doing to the rest of its network)
(10 Jan 2023, 1:32 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I'm never sure why there's a clamour on here to reinvent the Coast Road routes.
They've been largely untouched throughout the chaos which suggests they make money and demand is there - so why is there almost a constant clamour to re-route or jig them (which is ironically what many of us criticise the life out of GNE for doing to the rest of its network)
I'm sick of hearing about it
(10 Jan 2023, 10:29 am)BusesInTheNorth wrote [ -> ]25 is Nexus Funded for a certain extension of the journey, not the whole route.
You sure on that? Not sure why Durham would subsidise the 25 it doesn't really benefit them at all as 90% of the route is in T&W bar Barley Mow -> CLS which doesn't benefit them at all, especially now the 725 is a separate contract.
Sure it's not the 29 and Kibblesworth / Saltwell Park instead?
(10 Jan 2023, 1:44 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]I'm sick of hearing about it
We need more 42A and X21 discussion!
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(10 Jan 2023, 1:32 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I'm never sure why there's a clamour on here to reinvent the Coast Road routes.
They've been largely untouched throughout the chaos which suggests they make money and demand is there - so why is there almost a constant clamour to re-route or jig them (which is ironically what many of us criticise the life out of GNE for doing to the rest of its network)
I don't want to derail this thread about them again but I'd be surprised if they do make money especially the 311. I have a feeling it's more of a two companies being stubborn and refusing to make the move in case they shoot their self in the foot and give the other one a monopoly. They are not busy buses outside of the peaks and even Dan has mentioned numerous times about the overbusing along there.
The fact that they've ditched pretty much everything else in North Tyneside and both companies are making a loss probably suggest their not the money makers people think they are otherwise they could be used to top up the likes of the 17, 42, 51, 54 etc just to name a few which have suffered lately.
On the other hand without them they might aswell close shop in the area because of the Stagecoach / Metro covering most other areas.
(10 Jan 2023, 1:32 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I'm never sure why there's a clamour on here to reinvent the Coast Road routes.
They've been largely untouched throughout the chaos which suggests they make money and demand is there - so why is there almost a constant clamour to re-route or jig them (which is ironically what many of us criticise the life out of GNE for doing to the rest of its network)
Bottom line is they wouldn't be re-jigged by much.
306/308 would still be largely unchanged bar the 306 no longer going through Battle Hill. Do note that the QA Campus has now re-located to the main Tynemet grounds
309/310 would be largely unchanged other than the 309 serving High Farm and 310 additionally serving Windsor Drive replacing the 51
22A would give a stable link from Hadrian Park and save on a one-way in one-way out de-tour. Basically offering the same links right into Newcastle as the 57/58 did
A cleaner 5 minute frequency between Station Road and Newcastle and individual 10 minute frequencies working in partnership will benefit both operators and help take a 'minibus' route off the road
(10 Jan 2023, 5:52 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]We need more 42A and X21 discussion!
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Tbf the X21 there is a lot to talk about.
16:10 from Newcastle to West Aukland being the last one thats pitiful.
(10 Jan 2023, 5:52 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]We need more 42A and X21 discussion!
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Bring back the 42A. A nice senic route between Wide-open & Kingston Park
Received an email of nexus for the consultation. They said they cannot extend the 51 to Northumberland Park reason below
The 51 (which is operated privately by Arriva between Newcastle – Holystone) would continue to serve Holystone Park .It would not be possible to extend the 51 to/from Northumberland Park without adding an additional bus, or omitting another section of the route between Newcastle - Holystone.
I mean do they just not want arriva to put another bus in service or something. And the 51 does a bloody loop of the road it comes into Holystone anyway. So how would the 51 miss out Holystone if it has to leave Holystone the same way it came in to get to Whitley Bay and Northumberland Park is 5 minutes up the road from Holystone
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attachment=10329]
Consider that the loop it does. Non of that made sense whatsoever saying they can't serve it due to possible missing out area
(10 Jan 2023, 3:16 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]You sure on that? Not sure why Durham would subsidise the 25 it doesn't really benefit them at all as 90% of the route is in T&W bar Barley Mow -> CLS which doesn't benefit them at all, especially now the 725 is a separate contract.
Sure it's not the 29 and Kibblesworth / Saltwell Park instead?
Yes thanks.
Predominantly GNE Commercial, with section Nexus Funded.
Nothing of the 29 is Nexus supported minus the GCT trips.
(13 Jan 2023, 11:25 am)BusesInTheNorth wrote [ -> ]Yes thanks.
Predominantly GNE Commercial, with section Nexus Funded.
Nothing of the 29 is Nexus supported minus the GCT trips.
Im assuming the 28b is nexus supported on an evening and especially Sundays where it doesn't enter Co Durham at all?
(13 Jan 2023, 10:57 am)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]Received an email of nexus for the consultation. They said they cannot extend the 51 to Northumberland Park reason below
The 51 (which is operated privately by Arriva between Newcastle – Holystone) would continue to serve Holystone Park .It would not be possible to extend the 51 to/from Northumberland Park without adding an additional bus, or omitting another section of the route between Newcastle - Holystone.
I mean do they just not want arriva to put another bus in service or something. And the 51 does a bloody loop of the road it comes into Holystone anyway. So how would the 51 miss out Holystone if it has to leave Holystone the same way it came in to get to Whitley Bay and Northumberland Park is 5 minutes up the road from Holystone
Consider that the loop it does. Non of that made sense whatsoever saying they can't serve it due to possible missing out area
It makes perfect sense. Newcastle to Holystone Park is pretty much bang on 30 minutes, if they intend to keep an hourly frequency and keep it in the current interworking pattern then it works perfectly. As soon as you take it to Northumberland Park it adds around 10 minutes per trip, so it would either need to go standalone and you'd need 2 buses, or it would massively change what can be achieved with interworking and you probably can't save the bus that this initial cut would.
(13 Jan 2023, 2:53 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]It makes perfect sense. Newcastle to Holystone Park is pretty much bang on 30 minutes, if they intend to keep an hourly frequency and keep it in the current interworking pattern then it works perfectly. As soon as you take it to Northumberland Park it adds around 10 minutes per trip, so it would either need to go standalone and you'd need 2 buses, or it would massively change what can be achieved with interworking and you probably can't save the bus that this initial cut would.
I don't see Newcastle - Benton ASDA section of the 51 staying. 310 (with 309 changed to run via High Farm) could easily serve Wiltshire Drive and the 22 could serve Hadrian Park every 20 minutes to replace the 311 (with the other every 20 mins to Cobalt as now).
Holystone to Whitley Bay could be picked up by another route, maybe an hourly extension to the 55?
Don't know how Benton rise could be covered or whether that small section would warrant a link to Newcastle? But......if an additional stop (see screenshot) was added onto Wiltshire Drive, it would only be 482m or 0.3miles walk to the entrance of Benton Rise.
[
attachment=10330]
(13 Jan 2023, 6:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I don't see Newcastle - Benton ASDA section of the 51 staying. 310 (with 309 changed to run via High Farm) could easily serve Wiltshire Drive and the 22 could serve Hadrian Park every 20 minutes to replace the 311 (with the other every 20 mins to Cobalt as now).
Holystone to Whitley Bay could be picked up by another route, maybe an hourly extension to the 55?
Don't know how Benton rise could be covered or whether that small section would warrant a link to Newcastle? But......if an additional stop (see screenshot) was added onto Wiltshire Drive, it would only be 482m or 0.3miles walk to the entrance of Benton Rise.
I don't know why people on here have an obsession with the Stagecoach 22 going to Hadrian Park to replace the 311! - the journey time to Newcastle would be longer than the 311 (or diverted 310) so would put passengers off.
310 via Wiltshire Drive won't work for the same reason - passengers from Battle Hill will have a longer journey.
(13 Jan 2023, 6:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I don't see Newcastle - Benton ASDA section of the 51 staying. 310 (with 309 changed to run via High Farm) could easily serve Wiltshire Drive and the 22 could serve Hadrian Park every 20 minutes to replace the 311 (with the other every 20 mins to Cobalt as now).
Holystone to Whitley Bay could be picked up by another route, maybe an hourly extension to the 55?
Don't know how Benton rise could be covered or whether that small section would warrant a link to Newcastle? But......if an additional stop (see screenshot) was added onto Wiltshire Drive, it would only be 482m or 0.3miles walk to the entrance of Benton Rise.
Holystone to Whitley Bay is being cancelled by Nexus and partially replaced with the W2.
(13 Jan 2023, 6:39 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Holystone to Whitley Bay is being cancelled by Nexus and partially replaced with the W2.
Could amalgamate an extended 55 into the W2. 51 route from Palmersville to Earsdon then W2 route to Whitley Bay
(13 Jan 2023, 6:38 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]I don't know why people on here have an obsession with the Stagecoach 22 going to Hadrian Park to replace the 311! - the journey time to Newcastle would be longer than the 311 (or diverted 310) so would put passengers off.
310 via Wiltshire Drive won't work for the same reason - passengers from Battle Hill will have a longer journey.
Journey time would not be much longer than the 311, also taking into account that the 22 stops smack bang in Newcastle City Centre like what the 57/58 did as opposed to Haymarket.
310 via Wiltshire Drive would work if the 309 was re-routed via High Farm (subject to rumored Coast Road clean up happening). Other option would be 310 via Hadrian Park but would still be no replacement for 51 and even with a replacement, would still leave an 'oddball' service on the Coast Road.
Possibly not the right thread to ask this, but I will anyway.
Should Nexus services have card payment accepted on all services? Just got on a GCT 342 which is cash only. First time in a while I've had cash on me so was lucky.
(20 Jan 2023, 2:50 pm)Shrek wrote [ -> ]Possibly not the right thread to ask this, but I will anyway.
Should Nexus services have card payment accepted on all services? Just got on a GCT 342 which is cash only. First time in a while I've had cash on me so was lucky.
Not on legacy contracts.
It’s either this round (March) or next (May) where Nexus will be on the new terms for everything - that a contactless ETM is required.
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(20 Jan 2023, 2:50 pm)Shrek wrote [ -> ]Possibly not the right thread to ask this, but I will anyway.
Should Nexus services have card payment accepted on all services? Just got on a GCT 342 which is cash only. First time in a while I've had cash on me so was lucky.
A quote I heard recently - " you cant fiddle card payments"
(09 Jan 2023, 11:55 am)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]I remember when GNE operated the 307 from Newcastle to Benton ASDA - and then Arriva introduced the 51 in competition, it was timed to depart around 10 minutes before the 307 so I'd imagine this caused with withdrawal of that.
Then again, it would have probably gone by now anyway!
Tbh it worked better when it was the 307 as when GNE had it, it interworked with the short 17s, so Wiltshire drive had the 17 the 51 and 307, its a shame they couldnt of worked together instead of competing against each other running the 51 and 307 on a combined frequency between Newcastle-Holystone, but to offer a better connection, the 307 could of ran Newcastle-Northumberland Park, that way the 51 could of still went off to do its own thing to Whitley Bay
(24 Jan 2023, 6:21 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Tbh it worked better when it was the 307 as when GNE had it, it interworked with the short 17s, so Wiltshire drive had the 17 the 51 and 307, its a shame they couldnt of worked together instead of competing against each other running the 51 and 307 on a combined frequency between Newcastle-Holystone, but to offer a better connection, the 307 could of ran Newcastle-Northumberland Park, that way the 51 could of still went off to do its own thing to Whitley Bay
Bottom line is that the 'micky mouse' minibuses running amongst the main Coast Road routes need dropped and Wiltshire Drive needs morphed into the main Coast Road network. Service 310 via Wiltshire Drive and Service 309 additionally via Kings Road North, Mullen Road & Station Road would be the most efficient and sustainable option.
Sending the 310 via Hadrian Park would add 6 minutes per trip rather than 3, and sending the 309 via Hadrian Park will be a massive turn off for any users east of the A19 including Cobalt. Not forgetting that the whole minibus issue would still exist around Wiltshire Drive.
So with the 306/308/309/310 running every 20 mins each, that would create:
- Every 5 mins Coast Road / Station Road - Newcastle
- Every 10 mins Billy Mill - Newcastle
- Upto every 10 mins Battle Hill - Newcastle
- Upto every 10 mins Blyth - Rake Lane
**GNE 309** - PVR 8x Standalone
Blyth: 00:00
Newcastle: 01:12
Newcastle: 01:20
Blyth: 02:32
**GNE 310** - PVR 6x Standalone
North Shields: 00:32
Newcastle: 01:22
Newcastle: 01:30
North Shields: 02:18
**Arriva 308** - PVR 14x interworking with 306
Blyth: 00:11
Newcastle: 01:17
>>>>>then 306
from 306>>>>>
Newcastle: 01:15
Blyth: 02:19 (extra minute added)
311 could easily be dropped with the 22 split every 20 mins to Cobalt & every 20 mins to Hadrian Park.
55 could then be extended hourly via Holystone to Earsdon via current 51 route then the proposed W2 route from there to Whitley Bay.
I'd imagine these contracts have been awarded now? Any idea who has won them?
(30 Jan 2023, 12:18 am)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]I'd imagine these contracts have been awarded now? Any idea who has won them?
Results are expected to be announced to operators this week with formal award 10 days after that.
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