North East Buses

(30 Jan 2023, 5:05 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Results are expected to be announced to operators this week with formal award 10 days after that.


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Thanks Dan - that makes sense

(30 Jan 2023, 5:05 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Results are expected to be announced to operators this week with formal award 10 days after that.


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So what will happen if the W2 goes ahead and Arriva wash their hands of the 51 between Holystone and Newcastle?

Will Nexus then have to open another tender process to replace parts if not all of the affected route?

(30 Jan 2023, 8:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]So what will happen if the W2 goes ahead and Arriva wash their hands of the 51 between Holystone and Newcastle?

Will Nexus then have to open another tender process to replace parts if not all of the affected route?

Don't count your chickens yet.

Apparently the consultation has been wholly negative around the planned 51 changes and it wouldn't surprise me if Nexus and Arriva are hammering out a last minute deal to continue as is.

(30 Jan 2023, 9:13 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Don't count your chickens yet.

Apparently the consultation has been wholly negative around the planned 51 changes and it wouldn't surprise me if Nexus and Arriva are hammering out a last minute deal to continue as is.

The tenders have been out before the consultation even began which would suggest that it's a smoke screen as you can't exactly tender something then change the whole thing last minute. I'd imagine if they did that then there'd be another tender put out for the day time 51 journeys instead. Doubt Arriva will be interested in anything, they can't run stuff as it is.

Tbf it would be a great route for GNE to run to strengthen their Coast road routes aswell as the whitely bay area

(30 Jan 2023, 9:13 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Don't count your chickens yet.

Apparently the consultation has been wholly negative around the planned 51 changes and it wouldn't surprise me if Nexus and Arriva are hammering out a last minute deal to continue as is.

Can you blame them. Let's cut the 51 from Whitley Bay and finish it in an area that has no bus service to Whitley Bay or the other section of the route or to walk ages for a metro. They clearly didn't give a slight care and just thought let's cut it at Holystone. Idea to extend it to Northumberland Park or even finish it at Shiremoor to at least give them a close metro link to the area the 51 servers. No wonder the 51 consultation has been negative.

(31 Jan 2023, 1:05 am)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]Can you blame them. Let's cut the 51 from Whitley Bay and finish it in an area that has no bus service to Whitley Bay or the other section of the route or to walk ages for a metro. They clearly didn't give a slight care and just thought let's cut it at Holystone. Idea to extend it to Northumberland Park or even finish it at Shiremoor to at least give them a close metro link to the area the 51 servers. No wonder the 51 consultation has been negative.

Best option would be for an hourly extension of the 55 to Whitley Bay via Holystone to Earsdon then the W2 route.

The hourly 55 and 54 could then perhaps interwork with each other.......or the 54/55 interwork with the 57/57A.

As for Newcastle - Wiltshire Drive, that could easily be sorted if Nexus/GNE/Arriva/Stagecoach work together to produce a stable set of changes.

(31 Jan 2023, 6:30 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Best option would be for an hourly extension of the 55 to Whitley Bay via Holystone to Earsdon then the W2 route.

The hourly 55 and 54 could then perhaps interwork with each other.......or the 54/55 interwork with the 57/57A.

As for Newcastle - Wiltshire Drive, that could easily be sorted if Nexus/GNE/Arriva/Stagecoach work together to produce a stable set of changes.

Extending the 55 would bring back the 355 which would be a slower link to Newcastle than the 51.
The huge East Benton Rise / Fallow Park development would have no direct bus to Newcastle.
The link from Wiltshire Drive would be lost, the previous 3 buses an hour to nothing in less than a year.

(01 Feb 2023, 8:05 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Extending the 55 would bring back the 355 which would be a slower link to Newcastle than the 51.
The huge East Benton Rise / Fallow Park development would have no direct bus to Newcastle.
The link from Wiltshire Drive would be lost, the previous 3 buses an hour to nothing in less than a year.

310 would replace Wiltshire Drive (with the 22 every 20 minutes replacing the 311 Hadrian Park - Newcastle link).

Benton Rise is only a short walk to Wiltshire Drive if Nexus added an extra stop.

309 likewise via High Farm & Station Road.

306 stays on the Coast Road with the 308 and all services every 20 mins each.

(01 Feb 2023, 9:54 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]310 would replace Wiltshire Drive (with the 22 every 20 minutes replacing the 311 Hadrian Park - Newcastle link).

Benton Rise is only a short walk to Wiltshire Drive if Nexus added an extra stop.

309 likewise via High Farm & Station Road.

306 stays on the Coast Road with the 308 and all services every 20 mins each.

If you're going to do stuff like that you'd be better doing something like:

R1 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Whitley+...55!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
R2 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.00866...44!1m0!3e0 - Hourly

335 Withdrawn. Both routes cover the unique sections of both routes, the 335 as it is one messy route without purpose and duplicating commercial routes for most of it. Commercial routes which aren't particularly doing well either.

(01 Feb 2023, 10:37 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]335 Withdrawn. Both routes cover the unique sections of both routes, the 335 as it is one messy route without purpose and duplicating commercial routes for most of it. Commercial routes which aren't particularly doing well either.

North Tyneside Seems to be a mess generally, needs rationalising quickly to avoid duplication.
I would suspect, somebody is looking the possibilty of turning whole NE into TFL-style operation, given the amount of tendering now plus operators struggles.
I could see NT as a start point given the amount of different operators at the minute.

(01 Feb 2023, 9:54 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]310 would replace Wiltshire Drive (with the 22 every 20 minutes replacing the 311 Hadrian Park - Newcastle link).

Benton Rise is only a short walk to Wiltshire Drive if Nexus added an extra stop.

309 likewise via High Farm & Station Road.

306 stays on the Coast Road with the 308 and all services every 20 mins each.

East Benton Rise is not a short walk from Wiltshire Drive and it’s uphill going north. 22 would also be a bit of trundle through the east end of Newcastle from Hadrian Park, not exactly direct. Don’t get me wrong, I would love the 310 to go along Wiltshire Drive, GNE should have done that years ago with the 305 but thinking of new developments such as East Benton Rise, they have been given a bus early on in the development and to take it away is not good enough.

(01 Feb 2023, 10:37 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]If you're going to do stuff like that you'd be better doing something like:

R1 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Whitley+...55!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
R2 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.00866...44!1m0!3e0 - Hourly

335 Withdrawn. Both routes cover the unique sections of both routes, the 335 as it is one messy route without purpose and duplicating commercial routes for most of it. Commercial routes which aren't particularly doing well either.

The 335 does generally get decent loadings from what I've seen. It also doesn't take an age to do those unique links. The journey is debatable from end to end but as you say there are commercial more frequent services for them.

(02 Feb 2023, 9:16 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]East Benton Rise is not a short walk from Wiltshire Drive and it’s uphill going north. 22 would also be a bit of trundle through the east end of Newcastle from Hadrian Park, not exactly direct. Don’t get me wrong, I would love the 310 to go along Wiltshire Drive, GNE should have done that years ago with the 305 but thinking of new developments such as East Benton Rise, they have been given a bus early on in the development and to take it away is not good enough.

A few shortcuts through the top of Hadrian Lodge and an extra stop from Nexus, it's only 500m to the entrance of the estate.

As for the 22, the journey from Hadrian Park starting anti-clockwise at the Bush would take 38 minutes to Market Street East / John Dobson Street / Pilgrim Street. The 57/58 before the 311 came about took around 30-35 mins. Plus although there'd be people losing out with Haymarket, those who want to be 'further in' will benefit.

(02 Feb 2023, 9:29 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]A few shortcuts through the top of Hadrian Lodge and an extra stop from Nexus, it's only 500m to the entrance of the estate.

As for the 22, the journey from Hadrian Park starting anti-clockwise at the Bush would take 38 minutes to Market Street East / John Dobson Street / Pilgrim Street. The 57/58 before the 311 came about took around 30-35 mins. Plus although there'd be people losing out with Haymarket, those who want to be 'further in' will benefit.

Do you know Hadrian Lodge, I wouldn’t be taking those shortcuts in the dark. Unlit, gravel path, 500 metres uphill as you say to the entrance of the estate, what about those ones near The Range at the top of Station Rd, very unlikely to attract passengers. There would be nowhere for an extra stop between the existing ones as the road is in a curve. When the consultation went out about the development it was hailing the 51 as a bus to Newcastle plus the 42/42a (or whatever it was then) all with useful links. They would be left with 335/342.
Is this all to help with the so called 5 minute frequency on the Coast Road? Yesterday I followed a 310 and 311 together up Station Road and they’re supposed to be more than 5 minutes apart - picking passengers up maybe?

(03 Feb 2023, 10:08 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Do you know Hadrian Lodge, I wouldn’t be taking those shortcuts in the dark. Unlit, gravel path, 500 metres uphill as you say to the entrance of the estate, what about those ones near The Range at the top of Station Rd, very unlikely to attract passengers. There would be nowhere for an extra stop between the existing ones as the road is in a curve. When the consultation went out about the development it was hailing the 51 as a bus to Newcastle plus the 42/42a (or whatever it was then) all with useful links. They would be left with 335/342.
Is this all to help with the so called 5 minute frequency on the Coast Road? Yesterday I followed a 310 and 311 together up Station Road and they’re supposed to be more than 5 minutes apart - picking passengers up maybe?

The problem is they're all hourly bus services and no-one wants an hourly bus service as it's unusable unless you happen to start or end work exactly when it's due or live at somewhere like Rothbury where it's understandable. 

Benton Road as a whole needs work on it. The whole area is underserved but it's difficult when the Metro stops at random parts of it.

(03 Feb 2023, 10:08 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Is this all to help with the so called 5 minute frequency on the Coast Road? Yesterday I followed a 310 and 311 together up Station Road and they’re supposed to be more than 5 minutes apart - picking passengers up maybe?

There's that which needs addressing but also having an hourly minibus service runnning amongst the 300's along the Coast Road. Benton Rise to Wiltshire Drive could easily be sorted with a few infrastructure improvements.

But with wider changes, Wiltshire Drive to Newcastle could easily be covered commercially or as part of a 'main' service as discussed.

I believe the point of the 335 is to provide access to 2 key employment centres at Cobalt and Quorum/Balliol

Although clearly a pre-pandemic suitable route - it still has value to people needing to get to those locations which don't have the as high work from home profile as other areas

(03 Feb 2023, 4:28 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I believe the point of the 335 is to provide access to 2 key employment centres at Cobalt and Quorum/Balliol

Although clearly a pre-pandemic suitable route - it still has value to people needing to get to those locations which don't have the as high work from home profile as other areas

The 335 is quite a busy service - it would be beneficial if they could make it half hourly at peak times. 

Also serves Tyneview Park, a few usually get on/off there when I use it.

(03 Feb 2023, 4:28 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I believe the point of the 335 is to provide access to 2 key employment centres at Cobalt and Quorum/Balliol

Although clearly a pre-pandemic suitable route - it still has value to people needing to get to those locations which don't have the as high work from home profile as other areas

Is there any section of the 335 that actually provides a unique link to Cobalt, as far as I'm aware the 53, 54 and 309 all provide a link on 90% of the route and they're not far walking distance from other areas and the first two are really struggling.

Open question that I'm not 100% sure.

(03 Feb 2023, 4:28 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I believe the point of the 335 is to provide access to 2 key employment centres at Cobalt and Quorum/Balliol

Although clearly a pre-pandemic suitable route - it still has value to people needing to get to those locations which don't have the as high work from home profile as other areas

I agree with this.

I've thought about what else could be done with the 335 and the only thing would be to operate direct from Four Lane Ends to Quorum, then Balliol, then BT and then Killingworth, missing out Longbenton (which already has buses to Killingworth, Four Lane Ends and Cobalt, Quorum/Balliol). That would provide a quicker journey to those business parks from the rest of the 335 route

Used both the 41 (Wallsend to Howdon) & 41A (Howdon to Wallsend) today. Few things to pick up on

1, I can see why the Howdon section is up for withdrawal. I was the only passenger on the 41 to Howdon after Smyth Toys

2, The Versa seem a proper Allocation as they do get the loadings better than the smaller StreetLite did

3, there is no need at all if the consultation goes ahead for the 41 to stay. The 41 today picked up if that 4 people while the 41A had more people on it. The 41A should be renumbered to the 41 and the 41 section between Wallsend & Hadrian Park cut.

4, I do not understand why the 41/41A interwork patterns are so werid. Some 41 go to Howdon. Some finsh at Hadrian Park. There was 3 41/41A together all going to Wallsend

(03 Feb 2023, 7:18 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Is there any section of the 335 that actually provides a unique link to Cobalt, as far as I'm aware the 53, 54 and 309 all provide a link on 90% of the route and they're not far walking distance from other areas and the first two are really struggling.

Open question that I'm not 100% sure.

Hadrian Park and High farm don’t have a bus to cobalt. High Farm has the 310, but this only goes to Cobalt South and not into the Business Park. 

Four Lane Ends also doesn’t although not sure how many people would use the 335 from there.

(03 Feb 2023, 7:55 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Hadrian Park and High farm don’t have a bus to cobalt. High Farm has the 310, but this only goes to Cobalt South and not into the Business Park. 

Four Lane Ends also doesn’t although not sure how many people would use the 335 from there.

Aye fair on Hadrian Park, ironically if you built a bridge across there it's in walking distance.

It's the sort of place if you want serious active travel then it should be. A cycle network like below would make active travel actually attractive imo (yellow already built) especially if there was decent lockers (or the ability to use them on the Metro) at the Metro stations.



Instead as usual everything that's built is focused on Newcastle instead as if no-one else goes anywhere else.

If they built a bus only road between Hadrian Park and Cobalt where your red line is, the bus companies would be laughing.

It means GNE could divert the 309 through Hadrian Park and into Cobalt that way which removes the need for the 311 going to Hadrian Park. The 310 will still serve the stops at Cobalt South.

Honestly Hadrian Park is probably one of the biggest headaches for bus companies in this area as there is only one way in and out, and to serve it takes around 5 minutes.

(04 Feb 2023, 12:31 am)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]If they built a bus only road between Hadrian Park and Cobalt where your red line is, the bus companies would be laughing.

It means GNE could divert the 309 through Hadrian Park and into Cobalt that way which removes the need for the 311 going to Hadrian Park. The 310 will still serve the stops at Cobalt South.

Honestly Hadrian Park is probably one of the biggest headaches for bus companies in this area as there is only one way in and out, and to serve it takes around 5 minutes.

Yeah you're right there mind, not sure how plausible it would be though, believe the A19 is on a slight embankment along there but not enough to get a bus under.

Always thought the same for Quorum aswell with a bus link across to West Moor so the buses can actually go through it but the ECML could be a problem, I know there's a very low / narrow bridge currently but with some tinkering it could potentially be possible.

It's the sort of stuff that would make bus travel actually attractive imo.

(03 Feb 2023, 10:35 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The problem is they're all hourly bus services and no-one wants an hourly bus service as it's unusable unless you happen to start or end work exactly when it's due or live at somewhere like Rothbury where it's understandable. 

Benton Road as a whole needs work on it. The whole area is underserved but it's difficult when the Metro stops at random parts of it.

The hourly 51 is fine by me although it was better half hourly with the 51a. So would it better having no bus or an hourly one? I know what people who use the 51 would say.

(04 Feb 2023, 9:53 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]The hourly 51 is fine by me although it was better half hourly with the 51a. So would it better having no bus or an hourly one? I know what people who use the 51 would say.

Honestly most people will probably react the same. I'm not using the bus it's too infrequent / I'm not using the bus it doesn't exist. Same result at the end of the day sadly.

It's a route which needs someone to really give it a crack but it's in a bit of a no mans land territory area as no-one really serves the area. Wonder if extending the 1 but looping around the roundabout and only running as far as Holystone - something like https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whitle...F1q67wb41n could work, it'll only be 1 PVR so the same as the whole 51 will be pretty much or if you wanted to test it do - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.00581...bf!1m0!3e0 but it might be a bit tight.

The 311 tbh would solve Wiltshire Drive and give them a better service aswell.

(03 Feb 2023, 10:11 pm)IStorx wrote [ -> ]Aye fair on Hadrian Park, ironically if you built a bridge across there it's in walking distance.

It's the sort of place if you want serious active travel then it should be. A cycle network like below would make active travel actually attractive imo (yellow already built) especially if there was decent lockers (or the ability to use them on the Metro) at the Metro stations.



Instead as usual everything that's built is focused on Newcastle instead as if no-one else goes anywhere else.

That short red route would be a great asset, HP has always caused problems with the one road in and out.

(04 Feb 2023, 10:14 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]The 311 tbh would solve Wiltshire Drive and give them a better service aswell.

If there wasn't a wholesale change on the Coast Road.......another option could be:

- 309 - Same as now every 20 mins

- 310 - Same as now via Hadrian Park every 20 mins

- 311 - Holystone - Benton ASDA - Station Road North - Wiltshire Drive - then Coast Road as now to Newcastle every 20 mins

Again, the issue is that the 311 would be a loss maker in that form if the Coast Road was left unchanged. 

A cleaner 5 minute headway and the 306/308/309/310 running every 20 mins each would allow all services to stand on their own two feet.......

- 306 would carry about the same if not slightly more with a more even headway along with the 308 due to it omitting Battle Hill Drive.

- 308 would be burdened less because of the above.

- 309 would actually compliment rather than compete against the 308, being the main money maker through Battle Hill Drive and High Farm due to it serving Station Road and also with the 13/7 split with the 310.

- 310 would pretty much the the same as now passenger wise.