North East Buses

(19 Jul 2022, 7:19 pm)minibus1474 wrote [ -> ]Should be £1.50 and £2.10, with £3.50 day ticket and £15.00 weekly ticket.

£3.50 day ticket for just the JH & Weardale services? For Tyne & Wear/Nexus and Durham/DCC?

Go North East tickets will be valid, at least until September, on JH Coaches 30/31 and 82/82A.

Does anyone know if Day Rovers are valid on the 82/82A and on Gateshead Central Taxis and Phoenix Coaches services within Tyne & Wear?

(22 Jul 2022, 3:41 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Go North East tickets will be valid, at least until September, on JH Coaches 30/31 and 82/82A.

Does anyone know if Day Rovers are valid on the 82/82A and on Gateshead Central Taxis and Phoenix Coaches services within Tyne & Wear?

I wonder how many people connect with the 30/31

(22 Jul 2022, 3:41 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Go North East tickets will be valid, at least until September, on JH Coaches 30/31 and 82/82A.

Does anyone know if Day Rovers are valid on the 82/82A and on Gateshead Central Taxis and Phoenix Coaches services within Tyne & Wear?

Network One tickets are valid on all Nexus secured services.

(22 Jul 2022, 5:34 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Network One tickets are valid on all Nexus secured services.

I used the Nexus 342 for the first time yesterday afternoon, from Wallsend to Westerhope, and the driver said when I boarded in Wallsend Town Centre that Day Rovers are not accepted on Gateshead Central Taxis services. At Kingston Park he contacted the depot and told me Day Rovers are only valid on Go North East, Stagecoach and Arriva and Nexus services operated by GCT and Phoenix require the Nexus day ticket for £3.50.

(22 Jul 2022, 5:58 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]I used the Nexus 342 for the first time yesterday afternoon, from Wallsend to Westerhope, and the driver said when I boarded in Wallsend Town Centre that Day Rovers are not accepted on Gateshead Central Taxis services. At Kingston Park he contacted the depot and told me Day Rovers are only valid on Go North East, Stagecoach and Arriva and Nexus services operated by GCT and Phoenix require the Nexus day ticket for £3.50.

 Surely the day rover is a Dailey version of a network 1 travel ticket. And I'm sure the Mrs has used hers on the fist 29 of the day which is ran by GCT without a problem.

If they are saying they run the service 24/7 so that why its not valid i would be contacting nexus.... it would be interesting if you tried to buy one on a gct bus?!

(22 Jul 2022, 5:58 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]I used the Nexus 342 for the first time yesterday afternoon, from Wallsend to Westerhope, and the driver said when I boarded in Wallsend Town Centre that Day Rovers are not accepted on Gateshead Central Taxis services. At Kingston Park he contacted the depot and told me Day Rovers are only valid on Go North East, Stagecoach and Arriva and Nexus services operated by GCT and Phoenix require the Nexus day ticket for £3.50.

Unless it's recently changed, then they're wrong and I'd suggest flagging it to Nexus to get on to their contractor. Network One tickets have always been valid on Nexus secured services, as long as you're within the zone boundaries.

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(23 Jul 2022, 9:40 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Unless it's recently changed, then they're wrong and I'd suggest flagging it to Nexus to get on to their contractor. Network One tickets have always been valid on Nexus secured services, as long as you're within the zone boundaries.

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From Monday which service offers the cheaper single fares, the 50 or 82/82A?

The White Enviro '200 has an old style destination blind and looks great.

I noticed they don't appear to be pushing any open data for the 82 today, despite it being both a legal and contractual requirement. Hopefully just teething issues...

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(25 Jul 2022, 8:35 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I noticed they don't appear to be pushing any open data for the 82 today, despite it being both a legal and contractual requirement. Hopefully just teething issues...

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Nor are Gateshead Central on any of their new or revised routes (the two E200s doing the 558/568 are tracking when working the 558s but once they reach Heworth, no tracking on the 568).

Its only £1.50 to the Galleries on the 82/82A compared to £2 on the 50. I think that might tempt a lot of people.

(25 Jul 2022, 9:07 am)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Its only £1.50 to the Galleries on the 82/82A compared to £2 on the 50. I think that might tempt a lot of people.

From where to the Galleries?

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(25 Jul 2022, 9:32 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]From where to the Galleries?

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Ayton (Monkside Close), although the ticket machine thought it was Birtley.

(25 Jul 2022, 8:24 am)Retro Nero wrote [ -> ]The White Enviro '200 has an old style destination blind and looks great.

JH Coaches LK58 CPY by kieron mathews, on Flickr

(25 Jul 2022, 2:48 pm)TEN 6083 wrote [ -> ]JH Coaches LK58 CPY by kieron mathews, on Flickr

Is this your photo? Please can I use it?

Doesn't the 82 need to track? wasn't it in the contract

(25 Jul 2022, 3:10 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Is this your photo? Please can I use it?

There are a few pics of Enviros belonging to jh  Hughes from today on service 82 ,there's also one with a Hanover display.

(25 Jul 2022, 3:10 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Is this your photo? Please can I use it?

That’s mine, go ahead and use it


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JH not tracking still, hopefully they’ll sort it out as soon as they can especially with gaining extra services from GNE.


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(25 Jul 2022, 4:07 pm)Retro Nero wrote [ -> ]There are a few pics of Enviros belonging to jh  Hughes from today on service 82 ,there's also one with a Hanover display.

The offerings on the 82 today were E200's:
LK58CPY: https://flic.kr/p/2nAkNEc
LK09EOD: https://flic.kr/p/2nAgPT4

LK09EOD however was later replaced by StreetLite MX61BBU: https://flic.kr/p/2nAogKY

82A had E200 LX13CZG: https://flic.kr/p/2nAkNRj

Meanwhile the 30/31 was allocated StreetLite MX60BXD: https://flic.kr/p/2nAkNG1

(25 Jul 2022, 4:39 pm)TEN 6083 wrote [ -> ]That’s mine, go ahead and use it


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JH not tracking still, hopefully they’ll sort it out as soon as they can especially with gaining extra services from GNE.


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Really? I didn't get out to capture the first day of the service changes unfortunately and I really like your shot of the 82, it's a nice setting. No problem with giving credit if you desire.

JH should really track, hopefully they do get it sorted.

Could there be scope for the 82 to be extended to Newcastle? Perhaps uplift the service to half-hourly, extending to Newcastle once per hour? Maybe this could make the service commercially viable and JH Coaches would be able to compete with Go North East?

(28 Jul 2022, 1:34 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Could there be scope for the 82 to be extended to Newcastle? Perhaps uplift the service to half-hourly, extending to Newcastle once per hour? Maybe this could make the service commercially viable and JH Coaches would be able to compete with Go North East?

Wouldn't that be Nexus competing with Go North East?

I can't see it being an effective use of what limited money there is for secured services, not least when you have the Metro from Gateshead to the 3 points in Newcastle that people are most likely wanting to travel to.

It seems pointless imo, there's enough buses going to Newcastle from Gateshead for people to change to.

(28 Jul 2022, 1:44 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Wouldn't that be Nexus competing with Go North East?

I can't see it being an effective use of what limited money there is for secured services, not least when you have the Metro from Gateshead to the 3 points in Newcastle that people are most likely wanting to travel to.

Just to clarify, I was saying JH Coaches, rather than Nexus, could possibly compete with North East, if there was sufficient demand and other services could be established to connect with.

The Metro costs money, likewise it costs more if you need multiple operators (there is ticket acceptance in place for now, but there is no guarantee it will continue). Nexus already compete anyway, there is a day ticket for Gateshead Central Taxis and Phoenix services (not sure if this is accepted on JH & Weardale).
Besides, not everyone likes the Metro, and direct links are better, so they should be an option. 

We don't need more buses crossing the river, definitely not, but if ticket acceptance was removed, or it was cheaper to use just Nexus services (which it already is) the 82 being extended to Newcastle would make it a good option for passengers to use.

Someone could argue we don't need Eldon Square, buses could terminate at High Level Bridge and passengers could use the Metro to reach Eldon Square from Central Station. 

If the 82 is popular between Gateshead and Birtley, I assume some passengers would use it to and from Newcastle.

(28 Jul 2022, 2:20 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Just to clarify, I was saying JH Coaches, rather than Nexus, could possibly compete with North East, if there was sufficient demand and other services could be established to connect with.

The Metro costs money, likewise it costs more if you need multiple operators (there is ticket acceptance in place for now, but there is no guarantee it will continue). Nexus already compete anyway, there is a day ticket for Gateshead Central Taxis and Phoenix services (not sure if this is accepted on JH & Weardale).
Besides, not everyone likes the Metro, and direct links are better, so they should be an option. 

We don't need more buses crossing the river, definitely not, but if ticket acceptance was removed, or it was cheaper to use just Nexus services (which it already is) the 82 being extended to Newcastle would make it a good option for passengers to use.

Someone could argue we don't need Eldon Square, buses could terminate at High Level Bridge and passengers could use the Metro to reach Eldon Square from Central Station. 

If the 82 is popular between Gateshead and Birtley, I assume some passengers would use it to and from Newcastle.

I doubt the management team at JH Coaches will have much of an appetite to compete with GNE after what transpired when they last tried around 30 years ago. Everything comes down to resource. While the prospect of competition, leading to cheap fares and more choice for passengers, might encapsulate the spirit of deregulation, the reality is that whomever has the most resource, usually the incumbent operator, wins the battle. Sure, there might be a brief period of competitive fares, but things aren't always what they seem. The attractive fares on offer are usually loss-leaders designed to persuade passengers to use their service, and again, it is usually the operator with the most resource and financial backing who is able to offer the lowest fares and absorb the costs. Once the competition is eliminated, all those loses which the winner has absorbed have to be recouped somehow, which means higher fares for passengers in the long run.

Unless the service is offering something truly original or tapping into a market which no-one has exploited, competition on existing routes is probably not a commercially viable prospect. 


BTW, if anyone wants to read about bus competition in the North East, there is a fantastic report commissioned by the, then Monopolies and Mergers Commission (Now the Competitions Commission), available in the reference section of Gateshead Central Library. See link below:

https://prism.librarymanagementcloud.co....s+services&resultsUri=items%3Fquery%3Dthe%2Bsupply%2Bof%2Bbus%2Bservices

(28 Jul 2022, 5:09 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]I doubt the management team at JH Coaches will have much of an appetite to compete with GNE after what transpired when they last did tried around 30 years ago. Everything comes down to resource. While the prospect of competition, leading to cheap fares and more choice for passengers, might encapsulate the spirit of deregulation, the reality is that whomever has the most resource, usually the incumbent operator, wins the battle. Sure, there might be a brief period of competitive fares, but things aren't always what they seem. The attractive fares on offer are usually loss-leaders designed to persuade passengers to use their service, and again, it is usually the operator with the most resource and financial backing who is able to offer the lowest fares and absorb the costs. Once the competition is eliminated, all those loses which the winner has absorbed have to be recouped somehow, which means higher fares for passengers in the long run.

Unless the service is offering something truly original or tapping into a market which no-one has exploited, competition on existing routes is probably not a commercially viable prospect. 


BTW, if anyone wants to read about bus competition in the North East, there is a fantastic report commissioned by the, then Monopolies and Mergers Commission (Now the Competitions Commission), available in the reference section of Gateshead Central Library. See link below:

https://prism.librarymanagementcloud.co....s+services&resultsUri=items%3Fquery%3Dthe%2Bsupply%2Bof%2Bbus%2Bservices

JH Coaches are competing with GNE, via Nexus. Apparently the 82 is cheaper than equivalent GNE services. I'm not sure what the fares are from Gateshead. Nonetheless it's nice to see independent operators around the region, even if on secured routes only. Perhaps the wrong thread here, but Gateshead Central Taxis seem to be disappearing from much of the region, I'm curious to see if they keep the 84/84A, 335, 342, 516 etc come March. Personally I'd like to see the 84/84A/342 merged and coordinated with the 335. Arriva would be a good operator for these.

(28 Jul 2022, 5:24 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]JH Coaches are competing with GNE, via Nexus. Apparently the 82 is cheaper than equivalent GNE services. I'm not sure what the fares are from Gateshead. Nonetheless it's nice to see independent operators around the region, even if on secured routes only. Perhaps the wrong thread here, but Gateshead Central Taxis seem to be disappearing from much of the region, I'm curious to see if they keep the 84/84A, 335, 342, 516 etc come March. Personally I'd like to see the 84/84A/342 merged and coordinated with the 335. Arriva would be a good operator for these.

How are JH Coaches competing with GNE via Nexus?

They are being paid to provide a service which Nexus have deemed socially necessary through a tendered bidding process. JH Coaches may have registered the lowest price for that contract, but I suspect they were bidding against a range of operators, not just GNE. As we've seen with other operators in the region recently, the lowest bid isn't always the most sustainable bid, which is why the contract sometimes put back out to tender. Now I'm not suggesting that this is the case with JH Coaches, but I guess we'll soon find out whether their bid was too low if the service is re-tendered and they don't win it.

(28 Jul 2022, 5:41 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]How are JH Coaches competing with GNE via Nexus?

They are being paid to provide a service which Nexus have deemed socially necessary through a tendered bidding process. JH Coaches may have registered the lowest price for that contract, but I suspect they were bidding against a range of operators, not just GNE. As we've seen with other operators in the region recently, the lowest bid isn't always the most sustainable bid, which is why the contract sometimes put back out to tender. Now I'm not suggesting that this is the case with JH Coaches, but I guess we'll soon find out whether their bid was too low if the service is re-tendered and they don't win it.

They’re exploiting gaps in the market in Washington. Just like Stagecoach with the 939.


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(28 Jul 2022, 5:43 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]They’re exploiting gaps in the market in Washington. Just like Stagecoach with the 939.


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And GCT with the TB22/TB23. Competing with GNE around the busy passenger corridor of Wrekenton Row and Eighton Banks.