(18 Oct 2023, 5:33 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...l-27935869
Who telling to truth Dricoll or Gannon??
Neither put simply.
The caveat for the funding is a directly elected mayor, but already it is known funding across his realm won't meet the requirements of cost of what is in effect a new railway.
The figure will be well in excess of £2bn as costings were taken some time ago and prices of every material have since risen.
Driscoll would be ideal as an independent, and therefore unlikely to be penalised by petty party politics, but even if Starmer end up PM, don't expect much money coming our way.
(18 Oct 2023, 5:44 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]I wouldn't trust anything Labour say about Driscoll, they're actively trying to discredit him at every opportunity.
Absolutely. Gannon is a staunch supporter of the Labour candidate for the role.
It's also a bit ironic him stating
“a level of naivety that we do not need in leadership in the North East of England”, when it can't have been even 18 months ago that they were all praising receiving a pittance of the £800 million they bid for in their BSIP.
(18 Oct 2023, 5:49 pm)54APhotography wrote [ -> ]Neither put simply.
The caveat for the funding is a directly elected mayor, but already it is known funding across his realm won't meet the requirements of cost of what is in effect a new railway.
The figure will be well in excess of £2bn as costings were taken some time ago and prices of every material have since risen.
Driscoll would be ideal as an independent, and therefore unlikely to be penalised by petty party politics, but even if Starmer end up PM, don't expect much money coming our way.
The figure will be in excess of, yeah, but I'm not sure the 'excess of £2bn' is entirely accurate. The original figures were from a consultancy they hired for the feasibility study, but it's the structural engineering reports, yet to be completed, that will give a more accurate figure.
Driscoll, in my opinion, is the only way we'll get someone looking after the North East. When Labour inevitably win the next GE, should their Mayor candidate also win, she'll end up following the hymn sheet from Westminster. We already know from their conference last week, that there's very little in the way of new money.
Can someone sell me the idea of why this money should be sent so i can travel from my penthouse near pelaw to Tursdale or even why i would want too????
(08 Mar 2024, 4:33 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Can someone sell me the idea of why this money should be sent so i can travel from my penthouse near pelaw to Tursdale or even why i would want too????
The national rail case for the line doesn't really include stations, that's for local authorities and Nexus to work on. This, and considerable infrastructure work around Gateshead is primarily to increase capacity
(08 Mar 2024, 4:33 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Can someone sell me the idea of why this money should be sent so i can travel from my penthouse near pelaw to Tursdale or even why i would want too????
Because even if you don't want to or won't use it, others will, and supposedly the numbers stack up for it.
Why should you have electricity and running water in your penthouse, when it doesn't benefit me that you do?
(08 Mar 2024, 4:33 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Can someone sell me the idea of why this money should be sent so i can travel from my penthouse near pelaw to Tursdale or even why i would want too????
Because the train from the penthouse can take you to exotic Spoons far away. Not just Tursdale.
Meanwhile the residents in places like Fencehouses (we've not heard that mentioned for a while), can shove the pi$$ poor bus service that GNE and GCT offer, up their shareholders sphincter.
(08 Mar 2024, 4:49 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Because even if you don't want to or won't use it, others will, and supposedly the numbers stack up for it.
Why should you have electricity and running water in your penthouse, when it doesn't benefit me that you do?
I think running water and electric are essental. Spending thousands/millions/billions and a train track/line that beaching would probably shut down as soon as it opened isn't???
(08 Mar 2024, 6:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Because the train from the penthouse can take you to exotic Spoons far away. Not just Tursdale.
Meanwhile the residents in places like Fencehouses (we've not heard that mentioned for a while), can shove the pi$$ poor bus service that GNE and GCT offer, up their shareholders sphincter.
which spoons?
Are we saying that this area has subsidised bus services? Is a railway from fencehouse going to make people jump from car to train/metro/tram/driverless bus? Doubt it.
(08 Mar 2024, 6:09 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I think running water and electric are essental. Spending thousands/millions/billions and a train track/line that beaching would probably shut down as soon as it opened isn't???
My point is that infrastructure that you don't see as essential, still can be to other people. That goes for any public spending; it's not a waste of money, just because we don't personally use or gain from it.
The Leamside business case is well documented, and understandably, not everyone will agree with it. The same goes for modelling the numbers based on housebuilding along the route; most communities don't want more houses, but they're a necessity.
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(08 Mar 2024, 6:09 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I think running water and electric are essental. Spending thousands/millions/billions and a train track/line that beaching would probably shut down as soon as it opened isn't???
which spoons?
Are we saying that this area has subsidised bus services? Is a railway from fencehouse going to make people jump from car to train/metro/tram/driverless bus? Doubt it.
York? Thirsk? Northallerton might have one now.
And yeah, Nexus (possibly DCC) fund the 71.
The increase in housing in the area vs the drop in bus services over the year (including direct buses to Newcastle) doesn't add up.
Either the bus services don't take people where they need to be or the people don't leave their houses.
If there was an alternative, it might be the case that people leave their houses.
(08 Mar 2024, 9:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]York? Thirsk? Northallerton might have one now.
And yeah, Nexus (possibly DCC) fund the 71.
The increase in housing in the area vs the drop in bus services over the year (including direct buses to Newcastle) doesn't add up.
Either the bus services don't take people where they need to be or the people don't leave their houses.
If there was an alternative, it might be the case that people leave their houses.
I can confirm that Northallerton now has a Spoons, The Buck Inn, can literally step off most bus services and you're inside.
71 is a Durham County Council contract.
(08 Mar 2024, 6:09 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I think running water and electric are essental. Spending thousands/millions/billions and a train track/line that beaching would probably shut down as soon as it opened isn't???
which spoons?
Are we saying that this area has subsidised bus services? Is a railway from fencehouse going to make people jump from car to train/metro/tram/driverless bus? Doubt it.
Beeching didn't close the Leamside, Malcolm Rifkind did. And he knew sod all about railways.
(08 Mar 2024, 6:09 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I think running water and electric are essental. Spending thousands/millions/billions and a train track/line that beaching would probably shut down as soon as it opened isn't???
which spoons?
Are we saying that this area has subsidised bus services? Is a railway from fencehouse going to make people jump from car to train/metro/tram/driverless bus? Doubt it.
Beeching didn't close the Leamside, Malcolm Rifkind did. And he knew sod all about railways.
(09 Mar 2024, 6:11 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I can confirm that Northallerton now has a Spoons, The Buck Inn, can literally step off most bus services and you're inside.
71 is a Durham County Council contract.
If you can get to a bus to the place. Northallerton must have some of the worst bus services in the whole country, especially for the size of the place.
(08 Mar 2024, 6:09 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Are we saying that this area has subsidised bus services? Is a railway from fencehouse going to make people jump from car to train/metro/tram/driverless bus? Doubt it.
People are more likely to use a train versus a bus. Most people can't stand buses mainly because they go a longer route than you'd drive and sit in the same queues. In most cases, trains are usually quicker as you avoid the queues etc.
(08 Mar 2024, 9:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]York? Thirsk? Northallerton might have one now.
And yeah, Nexus (possibly DCC) fund the 71.
The increase in housing in the area vs the drop in bus services over the year (including direct buses to Newcastle) doesn't add up.
Either the bus services don't take people where they need to be or the people don't leave their houses.
If there was an alternative, it might be the case that people leave their houses.
So i would be able to get to the above places from pelaw? Cause its been mention on here that people don't like have to change bus/train/ferry to get to where they are going.... remember i got loads of abuse when i said all buses should terminate at gateshead metro rather than clog the tyne bridge up with 6 buses carrying a couple of doaen punter between them!
(10 Mar 2024, 11:01 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]So i would be able to get to the above places from pelaw? Cause its been mention on here that people don't like have to change bus/train/ferry to get to where they are going.... remember i got loads of abuse when i said all buses should terminate at gateshead metro rather than clog the tyne bridge up with 6 buses carrying a couple of doaen punter between them!
Not from Pelaw, but people are happy to change as long as the interchange is near their home. No-one wants to sit on a bus for 45 minutes, then get forced onto a train for last mile. The opposite is a completely different discussion though because of the time benefits.
Like if we're being ambitious and extending the Metro south of Washington rather than the frankly ridulous loop to Sunderland, you could make the case for a massive interchange at Shiney Row and a few minor ones and get people to Newcastle much easier. There's already tons of routes serving the place.
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attachment=10677]
Just to give an idea above, with the blue zones being new housing developments which is an ideal area because of the good road links. Places like Doxford Park would now be a 5 minute or so bus ride and a direct train to Newcastle now, similar for places like Houghton rather than having to sit on a bus for ages stuck in traffic in Gateshead. Even places like East Durham would have better connections, changing at West Rainton off the 20.
Obviously some on this forum will argue that they'd rather sit on a bus for 2 weeks than change, but it doesn't really represent the real world. Add parking at some of these stations, you're on for a real winner imo.
(10 Mar 2024, 12:10 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Not from Pelaw, but people are happy to change as long as the interchange is near their home. No-one wants to sit on a bus for 45 minutes, then get forced onto a train for last mile. The opposite is a completely different discussion though because of the time benefits.
Like if we're being ambitious and extending the Metro south of Washington rather than the frankly ridulous loop to Sunderland, you could make the case for a massive interchange at Shiney Row and a few minor ones and get people to Newcastle much easier. There's already tons of routes serving the place.
Just to give an idea above, with the blue zones being new housing developments which is an ideal area because of the good road links. Places like Doxford Park would now be a 5 minute or so bus ride and a direct train to Newcastle now, similar for places like Houghton rather than having to sit on a bus for ages stuck in traffic in Gateshead. Even places like East Durham would have better connections, changing at West Rainton off the 20.
Obviously some on this forum will argue that they'd rather sit on a bus for 2 weeks than change, but it doesn't really represent the real world. Add parking at some of these stations, you're on for a real winner imo.
It's this that is most likely to happen, if anything. But the ambition certainly seems to be a reopening in full.
(10 Mar 2024, 2:54 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It's this that is most likely to happen, if anything. But the ambition certainly seems to be a reopening in full.
Cannot see it happening personally, don't know why but I have a feeling they'll get to Washington then for [insert reason] they can't do the rest of it.
The reasons being the A19 issue, the viaduct is too broken, cost too much etc. Not that it would be the end of the world, rather see the money spent elsewhere personally - the Washington to Pelaw bit should definitely be done though.
(10 Mar 2024, 3:08 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Cannot see it happening personally, don't know why but I have a feeling they'll get to Washington then for [insert reason] they can't do the rest of it.
The reasons being the A19 issue, the viaduct is too broken, cost too much etc. Not that it would be the end of the world, rather see the money spent elsewhere personally - the Washington to Pelaw bit should definitely be done though.
The business case wouldn't work with a Washington terminus. It'll be all or none, as far as the Wearside loop goes.
There'll be structural assessments done right across the route, long before the first shovel goes into the ground. It's not just the Viaduct, there's sections of elevated embankment and other structures. The A19 isn't that much of an issue, other than it'd need the current underpass replacing with something wider, and they can always go down slightly if they need more clearance.
The biggest challenge is likely to be the crossing on Hylton Bank to connect to the existing South Hylton terminus. There's absolutely no way you can avoid having anything but a level crossing there, as there's no other way in or out.
(10 Mar 2024, 5:21 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]The business case wouldn't work with a Washington terminus. It'll be all or none, as far as the Wearside loop goes.
There'll be structural assessments done right across the route, long before the first shovel goes into the ground. It's not just the Viaduct, there's sections of elevated embankment and other structures. The A19 isn't that much of an issue, other than it'd need the current underpass replacing with something wider, and they can always go down slightly if they need more clearance.
The biggest challenge is likely to be the crossing on Hylton Bank to connect to the existing South Hylton terminus. There's absolutely no way you can avoid having anything but a level crossing there, as there's no other way in or out.
Your probably right to be fair with the all or none.
I just can't see where the people are coming from between Washington <> Sunderland, especially considering this isn't going to be a 10p job to do. There's literally absolutely no reason why anyone from Sunderland would want to head along there as it serves nothing pretty much and going the other way is questionable aswell.
I still think the A19 will be the most costly bit though, the public right of way will be the biggest blocking point, especially the fact the farm is completely inaccessible without it. I know there was absolute hell on on up here over closing one of the pedestrian level crossings and it's something that got changed fast.
It's not as if they can just say, use 'x' instead because there's literally no reasonable alternative for a cycle unless you want them being forced onto Chester Road, obviously you could build cycle lanes for it but again it's more £££.
I'll be VERY surprised if this ever gets anywhere and I still think this is political so little old Sunderland can't be 'left out'. I do think the Leamside Line will be opened fully, at some point though.
(10 Mar 2024, 6:21 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I just can't see where the people are coming from between Washington <> Sunderland, especially considering this isn't going to be a 10p job to do. There's literally absolutely no reason why anyone from Sunderland would want to head along there as it serves nothing pretty much and going the other way is questionable aswell.
They don't need to come from anywhere. It's only a 2.5 mile stretch between the south end of the Viaduct to South Hylton. Probably the same distance as East Boldon to Seaburn.
Although there was historically a station at Cox Green, there's just nothing there to serve, and I imagine any proposals for development would be fiercely resisted.
Washington is a growing town of 67k, and even at that, one of the proposed stations is being built with a new development in mind; Washington Meadows. The plans I saw last May included a P&R, Station, housing, bus loop, and new primary school.
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(10 Mar 2024, 7:40 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]They don't need to come from anywhere. It's only a 2.5 mile stretch between the south end of the Viaduct to South Hylton. Probably the same distance as East Boldon to Seaburn.
Although there was historically a station at Cox Green, there's just nothing there to serve, and I imagine any proposals for development would be fiercely resisted.
Washington is a growing town of 67k, and even at that, one of the proposed stations is being built with a new development in mind; Washington Meadows. The plans I saw last May included a P&R, Station, housing, bus loop, and new primary school.
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See, any plans with housing I could imagine being completely toxic considering all the fields near the railway line are green belt which never goes well.
Even known it's only 2.5 mile, if that's going to a take a large chunk of the budget for no benefits it won't be going anywhere. £700m is a lot of money being spent for 2 stations at East Washington, as it's completely useless for the Galleries or anywhere west of the A182.
If I'm right, the feasibility study hasn't been done yet and it'll be interesting to see the results as I have a feeling it won't be too positive.
If we're really being ambitious, I'd rather see the line extended down to Rainton/Hetton with a new town built between Fenceshouses, the Raintons and Hetton. It's not exactly the most difficult, with proper planning - which won't happen as it's England.
(10 Mar 2024, 8:13 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]See, any plans with housing I could imagine being completely toxic considering all the fields near the railway line are green belt which never goes well.
Even known it's only 2.5 mile, if that's going to a take a large chunk of the budget for no benefits it won't be going anywhere. £700m is a lot of money being spent for 2 stations at East Washington, as it's completely useless for the Galleries or anywhere west of the A182.
If I'm right, the feasibility study hasn't been done yet and it'll be interesting to see the results as I have a feeling it won't be too positive.
If we're really being ambitious, I'd rather see the line extended down to Rainton/Hetton with a new town built between Fenceshouses, the Raintons and Hetton. It's not exactly the most difficult, with proper planning - which won't happen as it's England.
Can't see owt being built on Rainton Meadows. Particularly with it being a site of SSI.
(10 Mar 2024, 8:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Can't see owt being built on Rainton Meadows. Particularly with it being a site of SSI.
Aye agreed there, it was more to the South of the A690 than anything, nothing really stopping them spurring off towards Hetton and joining the railway which used to head towards Seaham (don't know it's name).
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attachment=10678]
I drew a little map before, explaining to someone. Be a massive coup getting a railway down to Hetton imo. Obviously it'd have to be adjusted by locals on how big you want to Meadows, I just drew it as close as you could but probably would want more space tbh.
I assume it's the area Driscol was talking about when he was saying about building houses near the Leamside Line to boost it's cost to benefit ratio.
(10 Mar 2024, 8:13 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]See, any plans with housing I could imagine being completely toxic considering all the fields near the railway line are green belt which never goes well.
Even known it's only 2.5 mile, if that's going to a take a large chunk of the budget for no benefits it won't be going anywhere. £700m is a lot of money being spent for 2 stations at East Washington, as it's completely useless for the Galleries or anywhere west of the A182.
If I'm right, the feasibility study hasn't been done yet and it'll be interesting to see the results as I have a feeling it won't be too positive.
If we're really being ambitious, I'd rather see the line extended down to Rainton/Hetton with a new town built between Fenceshouses, the Raintons and Hetton. It's not exactly the most difficult, with proper planning - which won't happen as it's England.
They're not, though.
In the case of Washington Meadows specifically, this was removed from the green belt and added to the list of safeguarded land under Sunderland's Core Strategy and Development Plan 2015-2033.
See here. Policy SS3 covers safeguarded land, pg38-42 specifically the area I'm writing about. You can also see a report on the land:
see here.
There's a further PDF that I've seen (which I can't find in the public domain, so won't share), and that lists a more formal plan for the site. I'll try and get an update on it, but the consultation was only last year and no planning application has been submitted yet.
It's also worth pointing out that since closure, there's been housing built right along the line. (Most of) Sulgrave, Barmston, Teal Farm and (most of) Fatfield, didn't exist.
"Even known it's only 2.5 mile, if that's going to a take a large chunk of the budget for no benefits it won't be going anywhere." - I'm not sure that I understand this point? It's a railway, not a bus. It doesn't have to stop every 500 yards.
I'm not suggesting this will go ahead by the way, I just know there's been a lot of people who have spent a lot of time on the project, so to even get the Govt to put money into this study is a big step forward.
(10 Mar 2024, 10:16 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]They're not, though.
In the case of Washington Meadows specifically, this was removed from the green belt and added to the list of safeguarded land under Sunderland's Core Strategy and Development Plan 2015-2033. See here. Policy SS3 covers safeguarded land, pg38-42 specifically the area I'm writing about. You can also see a report on the land: see here.
There's a further PDF that I've seen (which I can't find in the public domain, so won't share), and that lists a more formal plan for the site. I'll try and get an update on it, but the consultation was only last year and no planning application has been submitted yet.
It's also worth pointing out that since closure, there's been housing built right along the line. (Most of) Sulgrave, Barmston, Teal Farm and (most of) Fatfield, didn't exist.
"Even known it's only 2.5 mile, if that's going to a take a large chunk of the budget for no benefits it won't be going anywhere." - I'm not sure that I understand this point? It's a railway, not a bus. It doesn't have to stop every 500 yards.
I'm not suggesting this will go ahead by the way, I just know there's been a lot of people who have spent a lot of time on the project, so to even get the Govt to put money into this study is a big step forward.
Ah apologies, missed that must've slipped through at some point. To be fair can't really complain about that small development there, when you said I thought you meant all the fields around there. Decent place for it and it's what we need more of. I know there hasn't been much mention of it but I hope there's similar planned in the future about the new Blyth Bebside station tbh.
Btw, I think it's a great scheme from Pelaw to Penshaw, can see massive benefits, it's just the bit after I think is a little bit of a missed opportunity as it doesn't really do anything new, like even picking out Washington Meadows there it would be as quick to get the 56 to Sunderland for the few people who want to go there.
Just think the opportunities further down the line would be a massive benefit but obviously until very recently Durham and Tyne and Wear were so disconnected, hopefully something we see less in the future. Shiney Row and Fencehouses (for Houghton Le Spring) are two quite urban areas really and they're both missing out. South of there I admit it's a bit of a gray area, it's a shame there's not an easy route into Durham really, especially for Sunderland to Durham which is pretty dire public transport wise for the size of the two places.