North East Buses

I was told the angel buses were going onto the 27 as they were too slow on the 21, 21 supposed to get older diesel deckers and the mercedes to be cascaded elsewhere, like I say I don't know how true it is...

(31 Dec 2014, 9:35 am)dodsy wrote [ -> ]I was told the angel buses were going onto the 27 as they were too slow on the 21, 21 supposed to get older diesel deckers and the mercedes to be cascaded elsewhere, like I say I don't know how true it is...

Wont happen. I think the GBF states how long their funded buses needs to remain on the same routes for? Im sure 2 years wont be enough.

(31 Dec 2014, 9:35 am)dodsy wrote [ -> ]I was told the angel buses were going onto the 27 as they were too slow on the 21, 21 supposed to get older diesel deckers and the mercedes to be cascaded elsewhere, like I say I don't know how true it is...

More likely too unreliable than slow but the 27 is hardly an easy going route.

But saying that, the 21 is due its usual management cock up downgrade.

(30 Dec 2014, 7:47 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]I am led to believe that some new vehicles will be getting delivered between March and May.

As to the make, model, livery and brand.....let the guessing commence 

I would say i can guarantee at least 2 routes which will get new buses during this financial term, although still not 100% on what buses they'll get here is my guess...

Lime - Streetlite 
X66 - Versa 

As for others.... no idea  

How many buses are being ordered 

(31 Dec 2014, 10:15 am)gtom wrote [ -> ]More likely too unreliable than slow but the 27 is hardly an easy going route.

But saying that, the 21 is due its usual management cock up downgrade.

Honestly, We've gone over this 101 times with other vehicles in the fleet...

Regularly seeing red spares on a route is not due to the fact that the branded allocation are unreliable. It's just a misconception due to the fact there are no branded spare vehicles. Matters will be made worse for the "Prince Bishops" services next month, when they cover a PVR of 20 with no branded spares...

I agree that the Volvo Hybrids may have been 'too slow' to stick to the timetable Go North East had for the 21 originally, but that's the reason why the timetables changed and the PVR increased by 2 vehicles (and hence now uses the two Volvo B7s - which were originally spares). To clear this up, the Angel B5s are staying where they are (for the next few years at least).

(31 Dec 2014, 10:33 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Honestly, We've gone over this 101 times with other vehicles in the fleet...

Regularly seeing red spares on a route is not due to the fact that the branded allocation are unreliable. It's just a misconception due to the fact there are no branded spare vehicles. Matters will be made worse for the "Prince Bishops" services next month, when they cover a PVR of 20 with no branded spares...

I agree that the Volvo Hybrids may have been 'too slow' to stick to the timetable Go North East had for the 21 originally, but that's the reason why the timetables changed and the PVR increased by 2 vehicles (and hence now uses the two Volvo B7s - which were originally spares). To clear this up, the Angel B5s are staying where they are (for the next few years at least).

I'm expecting loads of odd workings on the Prince Bishops, due to the re-fueling and buses having checks etc...They'll also have to re-fueled more than often due to its LONG route?
They should have at least 2-3 spares for it but that brings more problems up... don't think GNE will want to have loads of branded spares sitting around....... 

Hopefully this is sorted when GNE do the 2015/2016 orders   

(31 Dec 2014, 10:41 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]I'm expecting loads of odd workings on the Prince Bishops, due to the re-fueling and buses having checks etc...They'll also have to re-fueled more than often due to its LONG route?
They should have at least 2-3 spares for it but that brings more problems up... don't think GNE will want to have loads of branded spares sitting around....... 

Hopefully this is sorted when GNE do the 2015/2016 orders   

It would be irrational to suggest otherwise. In reality, they're not really 'odd workings'. The majority of the time, it's corporate liveried vehicles covering for vehicles of the same type and specification.

It's forever going to be an issue that can be debated: have branded spares sitting around in the depot ready in case you need them, or have corporate liveried spares and dilute the brand when you do need them, but can use them on other services if you don't? As we know, Go North East are in favour of the latter, so even if new buses did come for services 20/20A, 20 branded vehicles would be purchased and there would be 2 or 3 'red spares' to the same spec (as present). In my eyes, there's no difference between one of the new red Volvo B9s for the 56 covering for a branded vehicle and a red Scania covering for a branded vehicle on the 20. The higher the PVR, the more likely you're going to find that red spares appear.

Buses will be re-fuelled on a night after a bus has finished its duties, as present.

(31 Dec 2014, 10:27 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]I would say i can guarantee at least 2 routes which will get new buses during this financial term, aslthough still not 100% on what buses they'll get here is my guess...

Lime - Streetlite 
X66 - Versa 

As for others.... no idea  

How many buses are being ordered 

We have all been able to establish that those 2 routes in particular are to receive an upgrade or cascade of some sort for months now although like you say, we can't say that what vehicles will be purchased for them. We won't know how many buses are being ordered until they actually are. At the moment, we can only guess roughly which i think was about 80 if i remember correctly?

(31 Dec 2014, 10:53 am)Robert wrote [ -> ]We have all been able to establish that those 2 routes in particular are to receive an upgrade or cascade of some sort for months now although like you say, we can't say that what vehicles will be purchased for them. We won't know how many buses are being ordered until they actually are. At the moment, we can only guess roughly which i think was about 80 if i remember correctly?

That figure was in Go North East's assumed corporate plan for the 2014/15 financial year and 2015/16 financial year, which was initially given in Go North East's Quality Contracts Scheme response.

Things can change - that figure could well be higher, it could well be lower. Enthusiasts are very much in the dark with this year's orders, and I'd imagine that will be the case until the buses actually arrive (unless one of our 'Go North East insiders' issues hints closer to the time of their arrival). We shouldn't have found out what they were last year either: they were leaked. Go-Ahead, unlike Arriva and Stagecoach, do not publish details of the amount of vehicles that they plan to order within that financial year as each company is their own and these orders can be made at any time during that financial year (whereas I believe individual Arriva and Stagecoach companies have to get their orders in for a certain time in the year?) This is the reason why there's an element of 'secrecy' to Go North East's orders, whereas Arriva and Stagecoach's are quite open.

(31 Dec 2014, 10:53 am)Robert wrote [ -> ]We have all been able to establish that those 2 routes in particular are to receive an upgrade or cascade of some sort for months now although like you say, we can't say that what vehicles will be purchased for them. We won't know how many buses are being ordered until they actually are. At the moment, we can only guess roughly which i think was about 80 if i remember correctly?

Ye, i'll miss the B10's from the Lime, still going strong after all those years, I just hope the Lime colour looks decent on it's new buses  

As for Numbers, like Dan's said, it could be higher or lower than what they said. 

Hmm...don't think I've ever made a serious post in this thread (), so here are my predictions...

'Lime' Services 8/78/78A - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spares....15 vehicles
'X66' Service X66 - Current PVR of 4 (5 on Sat) + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Fab57' Service 57 - Current PVR of 5 + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Toon Link' Services 11/31/32/47 - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spare....15 vehicles
'Prince Bishops' Services 20/20A/X20 - Current PVR of 12 + 2 Spare....14 vehicles

With the changes over in Sunderland, I think it will be hard to understand the PVR of the Laser and Prince Bishops, although with Service 36, the PVR should increase by the 2 the #71 had.

Well, there's my predictions!

(31 Dec 2014, 4:25 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]Hmm...don't think I've ever made a serious post in this thread (), so here are my predictions...

'Lime' Services 8/78/78A - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spares....15 vehicles
'X66' Service X66 - Current PVR of 4 (5 on Sat) + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Fab57' Service 57 - Current PVR of 5 + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Toon Link' Services 11/31/32/47 - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spare....15 vehicles
'Prince Bishops' Services 20/20A/X20 - Current PVR of 12 + 2 Spare....14 vehicles

With the changes over in Sunderland, I think it will be hard to understand the PVR of the Laser and Prince Bishops, although with Service 36, the PVR should increase by the 2 the #71 had.

Well, there's my predictions!

20/20A will be 20 PVR and the 35/36 will be 15 PVR. =) 

Ill also go for Lime, X66 (pretty much confirmed) and Toonlink, as for anymore, not sure

(31 Dec 2014, 4:29 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]20/20A will be 20 PVR and the 35/36 will be 15 PVR. =) 

Ill also go for Lime, X66 (pretty much confirmed) and Toonlink, as for anymore, not sure

Thanks for that Michael!

So that's 35 vehicles in total for the 20s and 35s. Then 15 for the Lime brings it up to 50, and another 15 for the Toon Link makes it 65. 6 more for the X66 brings it to 71, and 5 for the 57 comes to 76. 

Sounds about right.

Yeah, they'll want all the B10BLEs in corporate livery or withdrawn for next year, so it would make sense to get them all debranded and in the spares fleet.

(31 Dec 2014, 4:25 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]Hmm...don't think I've ever made a serious post in this thread (), so here are my predictions...

'Lime' Services 8/78/78A - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spares....15 vehicles
'X66' Service X66 - Current PVR of 4 (5 on Sat) + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Fab57' Service 57 - Current PVR of 5 + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Toon Link' Services 11/31/32/47 - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spare....15 vehicles
'Prince Bishops' Services 20/20A/X20 - Current PVR of 12 + 2 Spare....14 vehicles

With the changes over in Sunderland, I think it will be hard to understand the PVR of the Laser and Prince Bishops, although with Service 36, the PVR should increase by the 2 the #71 had.

Well, there's my predictions!

Wouldnt think it would be needed to purchase spares for every single route. 53/54 and 58 share the 11.7m versa spares whether they are intentional or not. Obviously if its at ta depot where there are no spares to the same spec as the buses, then the spares would be needed (Lime). Im sure that the Prince Bishops would need branded spares anyway but if 4945 is away getting painted into what is supposedly a purple base, its pointless discussing the prince bishops gaining an investment.

(31 Dec 2014, 4:43 pm)Robert wrote [ -> ]Wouldnt think it would be needed to purchase spares for every single route. 53/54 and 58 share the 11.7m versa spares whether they are intentional or not. Obviously if its at ta depot where there are no spares to the same spec as the buses, then the spares would be needed (Lime). Im sure that the Prince Bishops would need branded spares anyway but if 4945 is away getting painted into what is supposedly a purple base, its pointless discussing the prince bishops gaining an investment.

It's the 58 and X66 which share 5389 and 5390.
On Saturdays when the PVR of the X66 increases to 5, one of those should be allocated (when they aren't required for the Citylink).

If/when the "Prince Bishops" services receive investment, twenty branded vehicles would be ordered and two or three corporate liveried spares of the same specification would also be ordered.

"IF" service 20 and 27 get new double deckers then the crusaders silver citarios could be unbranded and branded up for the silver arrows as it has the same base coat?, also if the deckers come for service 20/20A then I would reduce the frequency to every 12 minutes similar what GNE are going to do with service 56. would of liked to see citarios on service X35/X36 though.

(31 Dec 2014, 4:49 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]"IF" service 20 and 27 get new double deckers then the crusaders silver citarios could be unbranded and branded up for the silver arrows as it has the same base coat?, also if the deckers come for service 20/20A then I would reduce the frequency to every 12 minutes similar what GNE are going to do with service 56. would of liked to see citarios on service X35/X36 though.

Moved above post to more appropriate thread.

As Robert said previously, Chris, the first former "Laser" branded Scania L94UB/Wright Solar (4945) has gone to Saltmeadows for repaint into "Prince Bishops" purple. Rules out the chances of services 20/20A receiving investment as part of the 2014/15 corporate plan.

(31 Dec 2014, 4:46 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]It's the 58 and X66 which share 5389 and 5390.
On Saturdays when the PVR of the X66 increases to 5, one of those should be allocated (when they aren't required for the Citylink).

If/when the "Prince Bishops" services receive investment, twenty branded vehicles would be ordered and two or three corporate liveried spares of the same specification would also be ordered.

Yes but 5389 and 5390 can also be used on Saltwell Park services 53/54 although in this case its not intentional. Why purchase extra vehicles when you can have spares and share them... 

(31 Dec 2014, 4:49 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]"IF" service 20 and 27 get new double deckers then the crusaders silver citarios could be unbranded and branded up for the silver arrows as it has the same base coat?, also if the deckers come for service 20/20A then I would reduce the frequency to every 12 minutes similar what GNE are going to do with service 56. would of liked to see citarios on service X35/X36 though.

Problem with reducing the 20/20A to every 12 minutes is you'd have to have two journeys an hour on one route and 3 journeys an hour on the other route (similar to the Arriva service 6 which runs every 12 minutes with two out of five journeys continuing beyond West Auckland to Cockfield) Unless you made all journeys operate one route.

(31 Dec 2014, 4:49 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]"IF" service 20 and 27 get new double deckers then the crusaders silver citarios could be unbranded and branded up for the silver arrows as it has the same base coat?, also if the deckers come for service 20/20A then I would reduce the frequency to every 12 minutes similar what GNE are going to do with service 56. would of liked to see citarios on service X35/X36 though.

I already suggested that the citaros from the crusader citaros could go to SA...however its very unlikely atm, least someone else has suggested it to

(31 Dec 2014, 4:52 pm)Robert wrote [ -> ]Yes but 5389 and 5390 can also be used on Saltwell Park services 53/54 although in this case its not intentional. Why purchase extra vehicles when you can have spares and share them... 

They can be, but that obviously wasn't the intention when ordering them. The benefit of having fleet liveried spare vehicles to the same specification as the branded vehicles which they were ordered with means that they can be used on other services if not required by other services which they are the intended spares for (in this case, 58/X66). Go North East aims to have one fleet liveried spare vehicle per every 7 - 8 vehicles.

(31 Dec 2014, 10:33 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Honestly, We've gone over this 101 times with other vehicles in the fleet...

Regularly seeing red spares on a route is not due to the fact that the branded allocation are unreliable. It's just a misconception due to the fact there are no branded spare vehicles. Matters will be made worse for the "Prince Bishops" services next month, when they cover a PVR of 20 with no branded spares...

I agree that the Volvo Hybrids may have been 'too slow' to stick to the timetable Go North East had for the 21 originally, but that's the reason why the timetables changed and the PVR increased by 2 vehicles (and hence now uses the two Volvo B7s - which were originally spares). To clear this up, the Angel B5s are staying where they are (for the next few years at least).

No Dan, but using the service and experiencing plenty of breakdowns, no-shows etc does show they are unreliable.

Yet again with the 21 GNE ballsed up the vehicle choice. You'd have thought they would have learnt their lesson and really thought things out, clearly not

(31 Dec 2014, 4:59 pm)gtom wrote [ -> ]No Dan, but using the service and experiencing plenty of breakdowns, no-shows etc does show they are unreliable.

Yet again with the 21 GNE ballsed up the vehicle choice.  You'd have thought they would have learnt their lesson and really thought things out, clearly not

Should have kept the DAFs on from all those years ago!

(31 Dec 2014, 5:01 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]Should have kept the DAFs on from all those years ago!

I dunno, I miss those Optare Excels (another brilliant decision!)

Didn't notice the post about the crusader citarios could go onto silver arrows. bad hair day lol

(31 Dec 2014, 4:40 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]Thanks for that Michael!

So that's 35 vehicles in total for the 20s and 35s. Then 15 for the Lime brings it up to 50, and another 15 for the Toon Link makes it 65. 6 more for the X66 brings it to 71, and 5 for the 57 comes to 76. 

Sounds about right.

Yeah, they'll want all the B10BLEs in corporate livery or withdrawn for next year, so it would make sense to get them all debranded and in the spares fleet.

The 20/20A/35/35A/36 won't get new buses this financial year, this has being confirmed on updates on upcoming repaints... (can be found here - http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=831&page=1836 - post from Dan). 

---------------
20/20A will get the laser Scania's with 2 more painted in to Laser livery from Red. 
Laser* will gain 3/8 Citaro's from Silver arrow leaving 5 to go else where, hasn't being confirmed where. - * Brand name subject to change. 

(31 Dec 2014, 5:04 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Didn't notice the post about the crusader citarios could go onto silver arrows.  bad hair day lol

It alright, it happens, glad u had the idea to, it does seem logically, although if this happens, it won't be until the new buses arrive for the Crusader.... this financial year (2014/2015), seems unlikely it will happen =(

I just hope the 2/2A will use versa! haha

(31 Dec 2014, 4:25 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]Hmm...don't think I've ever made a serious post in this thread (), so here are my predictions...

'Lime' Services 8/78/78A - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spares....15 vehicles
'X66' Service X66 - Current PVR of 4 (5 on Sat) + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Fab57' Service 57 - Current PVR of 5 + 1 Spare....6 vehicles
'Toon Link' Services 11/31/32/47 - Current PVR of 13 + 2 Spare....15 vehicles
'Prince Bishops' Services 20/20A/X20 - Current PVR of 12 + 2 Spare....14 vehicles

With the changes over in Sunderland, I think it will be hard to understand the PVR of the Laser and Prince Bishops, although with Service 36, the PVR should increase by the 2 the #71 had.

Well, there's my predictions!

I really don't think the 57 justifies any brand new buses to be honest.

(31 Dec 2014, 4:59 pm)gtom wrote [ -> ]No Dan, but using the service and experiencing plenty of breakdowns, no-shows etc does show they are unreliable.

Yet again with the 21 GNE ballsed up the vehicle choice.  You'd have thought they would have learnt their lesson and really thought things out, clearly not

I obviously cannot argue against direct experiences of breakdowns, but I wasn't aware that the Volvo Hybrids regularly did breakdown... They're still fairly new buses, and certainly should not be suffering problems so early in their predicted life span.

What I would say is slightly more plausible is that, like a lot of Wrightbus products, the "Angel" allocation are facing problems which are electrical rather than mechanical... So a bus may have to come off at Chester-le-Street to be replaced by a corporate liveried vehicle due to an issue with a light on the dash, or something similar...

(31 Dec 2014, 5:09 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I obviously cannot argue against direct experiences of breakdowns, but I wasn't aware that the Volvo Hybrids regularly did breakdown... They're still fairly new buses, and certainly should not be suffering problems so early in their predicted life span.

What I would say is slightly more plausible is that, like a lot of Wrightbus products, the "Angel" allocation are facing problems which are electrical rather than mechanical... So a bus may have to come off at Chester-le-Street to be replaced by a corporate liveried vehicle due to an issue with a light on the dash, or something similar...

In terms of Customer Service...GNE need to talk more. Please fill in the form and sorry here's a buzzfare tend to be the response. I've even asked them to stop sending me free tickets and just explain the reliability of the Angel beyond traffic (understandable)

I don't like the layout of the hybrids in terms of seating, would prefer a Enviros (of any double deck distinction)