North East Buses

(18 Apr 2016, 9:01 pm)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]One of my major gripes is drivers (particularly Prince Bishops drivers, although a lot of Arriva drivers do so as well) leaving the bus where the drop off point is and causing a massive tailback.

Such is the magic that is Durham Bus Station.

I'll avoid going on a long rant about it... again!

Durham just needs a better bus station.. Shame its not part of the development.

(18 Apr 2016, 9:17 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]Durham just needs a better bus station.. Shame its not part of the development.

Agree Michael, but it needs to be part of a wider North Road development. North Road is an absolute hole at the minute, so it's pointless giving it a shiny new bus station, at least until things change.

(18 Apr 2016, 9:21 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Agree Michael, but it needs to be part of a wider North Road development. North Road is an absolute hole at the minute, so it's pointless giving it a shiny new bus station, at least until things change.

Have to agree here, the area is an absolute eyesore, it's amusing when you see some of the reactions from the tourists who are staying at The Eden Arms Hotel arrive in Durham Bus Station on the 7, I think they were expecting something nicer than some red bricked mess and then have to exit via the "smoking area" Bulldoze the lot I say!

(18 Apr 2016, 8:53 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]That doesn't help matters like.

Neither does late buses not being able to get on to stands, because other buses have been left there unmanned. It caused a bit of chaos with quite a bit running off timetable.

There was an awful lot of that on Saturday afternoon. All the layover bays were full and there was no space left by the wall towards the exit. There were at least 2 unmanned buses occupying stands for more than 10 minutes and quite a few buses ended up dropping passengers off at stand L and 3/4 before going around the block once or twice until they found a vacant slot at the right end of the bus station.

I really hope the new plans don't get through because it'll be even worse. The current over capacity situation is extreme, but not at all rare. It's one of the busiest bus stations in the region crammed into one of the smallest spaces.

(18 Apr 2016, 9:11 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It used to be a case that the two layover stands at the entrance, were allocated specifically for the use of the ANE 7 and GNE 21. If that's still the case, then no other services should be using these stands.

It's more so hogging the actual stands that cause me the biggest gripe.

Yes, and this causes the most problems in terms of the tailbacks which Lee is complaining about, as some drivers refuse to go on any stand but their allocated one, and any buses behind that one are left to sit and wait. As Arriva almost have the monopoly on the bus station, they are the ones that cause the biggest issue in Durham Bus Station. Not Go North East. Of course, if the bus station was properly supervised, drivers could be told to use the allocated layover bays, but...

It's quite interesting that Arriva are having so many issues, yet Go North East isn't (at least to my knowledge?) I was on the real-time information system yesterday at various points in the day, and I found at 12:00 that only one bus out of the PVR of 20 was outside of the 'on time' boundary, and at 15:00 two were. Things worsened at peak times, but that's normal Durham. Perhaps the roadworks in Durham aren't as bad as is being made out, and it's simply because there isn't enough recovery time in Arriva's timetables to accommodate minor delays like these?

Just seems odd to me that it can affect one operator and not the other!

(19 Apr 2016, 5:14 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes, and this causes the most problems in terms of the tailbacks which Lee is complaining about, as some drivers refuse to go on any stand but their allocated one, and any buses behind that one are left to sit and wait. As Arriva almost have the monopoly on the bus station, they are the ones that cause the biggest issue in Durham Bus Station. Not Go North East. Of course, if the bus station was properly supervised, drivers could be told to use the allocated layover bays, but...

It's quite interesting that Arriva are having so many issues, yet Go North East isn't (at least to my knowledge?) I was on the real-time information system yesterday at various points in the day, and I found at 12:00 that only one bus out of the PVR of 20 was outside of the 'on time' boundary, and at 15:00 two were. Things worsened at peak times, but that's normal Durham. Perhaps the roadworks in Durham aren't as bad as is being made out, and it's simply because there isn't enough recovery time in Arriva's timetables to accommodate minor delays like these?

Just seems odd to me that it can affect one operator and not the other!

When there are tailbacks beyond gilesgate roundabout, the traffic that has come in via Sunderland road does better as vehicles on Sherburn road have to try to merge with that line of traffic up near the garage. This can mean that, even if the queue is long but steadily moving, joining that queue can take 5 minutes or more extra, which she what happened to us, yesterday.

The 22/24 have to endure that, while the 20/20a don't

(19 Apr 2016, 5:14 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes, and this causes the most problems in terms of the tailbacks which Lee is complaining about, as some drivers refuse to go on any stand but their allocated one, and any buses behind that one are left to sit and wait. As Arriva almost have the monopoly on the bus station, they are the ones that cause the biggest issue in Durham Bus Station. Not Go North East. Of course, if the bus station was properly supervised, drivers could be told to use the allocated layover bays, but...

It's quite interesting that Arriva are having so many issues, yet Go North East isn't (at least to my knowledge?) I was on the real-time information system yesterday at various points in the day, and I found at 12:00 that only one bus out of the PVR of 20 was outside of the 'on time' boundary, and at 15:00 two were. Things worsened at peak times, but that's normal Durham. Perhaps the roadworks in Durham aren't as bad as is being made out, and it's simply because there isn't enough recovery time in Arriva's timetables to accommodate minor delays like these?

Just seems odd to me that it can affect one operator and not the other!

Many delays were caused due to the Nat Ex coach breaking down on the roundabout also, but there were large tailbacks beyond Gilesgate Roundabout.

I would also like to argue that GNE cause a large amount of problems, probably equal to the amount that ANE cause, due to their refusal to use the back wall. And also the blocking of the exit to DBS with many 20 drivers creating an imaginary stand 'M' due to the fact there is already another 20/20A on the stand.

There have also been times where GNE buses have sat waiting for their own stand to free up, despite the fact another bus is loading up before pulling onto an alternative stand because they will apparently get bollocked for pulling on to another stand.

It swings both ways...

(19 Apr 2016, 8:24 am)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]I would also like to argue that GNE cause a large amount of problems, probably equal to the amount that ANE cause, due to their refusal to use the back wall. And also the blocking of the exit to DBS with many 20 drivers creating an imaginary stand 'M' due to the fact there is already another 20/20A on the stand.

There have also been times where GNE buses have sat waiting for their own stand to free up, despite the fact another bus is loading up before pulling onto an alternative stand because they will apparently get bollocked for pulling on to another stand.

It swings both ways...

It does swing both ways and my previous post was not disputing the fact that Go North East's drivers may cause some issues. It clearly states which operator I believe causes the biggest issue. I don't know how Go North East can cause the same amount of issues in Durham Bus Station as Arriva, when they do not have as many services running from or through the bus station each hour?

According to Google Maps:

A - ANE X12 to Newcastle (2 buses/hr), GNE X22 to Metrocentre (1 bus/hr)
B - GNE 21 to Newcastle (4 buses/hr), GNE 50 to South Shields (2 buses/hr), GNE X21 to Newcastle (2 buses/hr), 
C - GNE 15 to Consett (2 buses/hr), GNE 16 to Stanley/Castleside (4 buses/hr), GNE 128 to Beamish (1 bus/hr).
D - ANE 6 to West Auckland/Cockfield (5 buses/hr).
E - ANE 46 to Crook/Tow Law (3 buses/hr), ANE 48 to New Brancepeth (3 buses/hr)
F - ANE 49/49A to Brandon (6 buses/hr)
G - GNE 204 to Littletown (1 bus/hr), GNE 208 to Peterlee (1 bus/hr), GNE 265 to Seaham (1 bus/hr)
H - ANE 56 to Bishop Auckland (2 buses/hr), ANE 57/57A to Kelloe/Hartlepool (2 buses/hr), ANE X12 to Middlesbrough (2 buses/hr) 
J - ANE 22 to Sunderland (2 buses/hr), ANE 24 to Hartlepool (2 buses/hr), ANE 43 to Esh Winning (4 buses/hr), 
K - ANE 7 to Darlington (4 buses/hr), GNE X21 to Bishop Auckland (2 buses/hr)
L - GNE 20/20A to South Shields (6 buses/hr)

This means that Arriva has 37 services per hour running from/through Durham Bus Station, while Go North East has ten fewer at 27 services per hour. Arriva drivers (some - not all) are renowned for dumping their buses on a stand when a changeover is due to take place, until the next driver arrives to take over that bus. Go North East can't be guilty of the same thing, as, unlike Arriva, they undertake no driver changeovers at Durham.

Have you got any evidence of Go North East drivers 'refusing' to use the allocated layover stands? I by no means visit Durham Bus Station regularly, but I've certainly seen drivers on services 20/20A using the allocated layover stands when a bus is already pulled onto Stand L.

Having another one of those outings where everything doesn't work out how I want...

Me and my camera don't want to cooperate with each other, resulting in some failed shots which is not good as today I'm trying to get round several different places to catch different things as I've fallen a bit behind on North East stuff.

The Eldon Square branch of Poundland has angered me again, once again their drinks selection leaves a lot to be desired meaning I had to opt for three cans of Cherry Coke, unfortunately when I went to put one of them in my bag the lid somehow came open soaking my jeans and bag, one of the items in my bag is my phone charger and sure enough that's where all the Cherry Coke has collected so Lord knows if it'll still work, be thankful I got 5249 on the 309 meaning I couldn't plug the plug in anywhere.

All this has led to me shouting and swearing at Cobalt and when I get like this it leaves me feeling lightheaded. So once again I'm totally annoyed with everything including myself for getting in this state again. I need to get a grip, I know.

(19 Apr 2016, 12:43 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]It does swing both ways and my previous post was not disputing the fact that Go North East's drivers may cause some issues. It clearly states which operator I believe causes the biggest issue. I don't know how Go North East can cause the same amount of issues in Durham Bus Station as Arriva, when they do not have as many services running from or through the bus station each hour?

According to Google Maps:

A - ANE X12 to Newcastle (2 buses/hr), GNE X22 to Metrocentre (1 bus/hr)
B - GNE 21 to Newcastle (4 buses/hr), GNE 50 to South Shields (2 buses/hr), GNE X21 to Newcastle (2 buses/hr), 
C - GNE 15 to Consett (2 buses/hr), GNE 16 to Stanley/Castleside (4 buses/hr), GNE 128 to Beamish (1 bus/hr).
D - ANE 6 to West Auckland/Cockfield (5 buses/hr).
E - ANE 46 to Crook/Tow Law (3 buses/hr), ANE 48 to New Brancepeth (3 buses/hr)
F - ANE 49/49A to Brandon (6 buses/hr)
G - GNE 204 to Littletown (1 bus/hr), GNE 208 to Peterlee (1 bus/hr), GNE 265 to Seaham (1 bus/hr)
H - ANE 56 to Bishop Auckland (2 buses/hr), ANE 57/57A to Kelloe/Hartlepool (2 buses/hr), ANE X12 to Middlesbrough (2 buses/hr) 
J - ANE 22 to Sunderland (2 buses/hr), ANE 24 to Hartlepool (2 buses/hr), ANE 43 to Esh Winning (4 buses/hr), 
K - ANE 7 to Darlington (4 buses/hr), GNE X21 to Bishop Auckland (2 buses/hr)
L - GNE 20/20A to South Shields (6 buses/hr)

This means that Arriva has 37 services per hour running from/through Durham Bus Station, while Go North East has ten fewer at 27 services per hour. Arriva drivers (some - not all) are renowned for dumping their buses on a stand when a changeover is due to take place, until the next driver arrives to take over that bus. Go North East can't be guilty of the same thing, as, unlike Arriva, they undertake no driver changeovers at Durham.

Have you got any evidence of Go North East drivers 'refusing' to use the allocated layover stands? I by no means visit Durham Bus Station regularly, but I've certainly seen drivers on services 20/20A using the allocated layover stands when a bus is already pulled onto Stand L.

It is six and two threes, really, or rather  5 and two threes, simply because Arriva do have more services using the station.

I regularly see angels, indigoes or whatever has come over from Deptford for the 265 or occasionally something from Stanley with time to spare using the back wall, so I agree that it's not true that GNE drivers refuse to park there.

GNE driver changeovers tend to happen at CLS or Stanley, while DBS is closer to arriva's depot, so it's understandable that more arriva buses will be waiting for driver changeovers.

Even with nothing unusual putting the pressure on, the worst culprit is the 43, which, even with only 4 buses an hour, is hogging stand J, or one of the ones next to it, with no driver in sight, for more than 50% of the time, as it has a long layover, usually with a driver change.

The 22 and 24 tend to be just as bad, while they are interworking, but they're usually parked up at the back wall unless they arrive with only minutes to spare before going out again. The biggest problems there come when a driver is caught up elsewhere, or, as I suspect, unable to go out until they've taken their statutory break after returning late, earlier.

Every one uses stand L and 3/4, even if it's just to drop off. That's become more of a problem since the X21 started using stand K, as there's often 5 buses in at once, wanting 4 stands, even when they're all on time.

I agree that Deptford must have a couple of scarily gobby drivers because when drivers other than those on the 20 dare to use stand L, even when there's no other space, they can't get out of the way fast enough when they see a 20 or 20a come in!

Regarding Durham Bus Station - a somewhat far-fetched idea, but until developments take place to ease the station, some less-popular routes terminate at different locations away from the city centre (ie the Park & Ride with a 5-minute shuttle running), or even terminate 'in' it? ie running buses through the city centre and terminating on the main street right outside the bus station. ANE go one way round and GNE go the other way?

(19 Apr 2016, 2:15 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]Regarding Durham Bus Station - a somewhat far-fetched idea, but until developments take place to ease the station, some less-popular routes terminate at different locations away from the city centre (ie the Park & Ride with a 5-minute shuttle running), or even terminate 'in' it? ie running buses through the city centre and terminating on the main street right outside the bus station. ANE go one way round and GNE go the other way?

You sound like a parent or teacher trying to separate a couple of bickering kids here...

(19 Apr 2016, 2:17 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]You sound like a parent or teacher trying to separate a couple of bickering kids here...

It does seem that way...!!

(19 Apr 2016, 2:15 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]Regarding Durham Bus Station - a somewhat far-fetched idea, but until developments take place to ease the station, some less-popular routes terminate at different locations away from the city centre (ie the Park & Ride with a 5-minute shuttle running), or even terminate 'in' it? ie running buses through the city centre and terminating on the main street right outside the bus station. ANE go one way round and GNE go the other way?

Like the 64 does?
The 13 and 14 stop on North Road too - but obviously don't cross over the city, like the 64.

I can certainly see merit in the idea.
How routes would be split or what would determine what goes in to the station is another thing.

Jimmi your battery charger should be fine once it has dried out.

(19 Apr 2016, 2:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Like the 64 does?
The 13 and 14 stop on North Road too - but obviously don't cross over the city, like the 64.

I can certainly see merit in the idea.
How routes would be split or what would determine what goes in to the station is another thing.

Yeah indeed like the 64 however I pictured the 64 as being a 'straight through' route? Otherwise I would've picked that as an example :p

Do excuse the crude Paint annotations below:

Basically, GNE go through North Road/Millburngate (to give one example, the Bishop bound X21 would then go on the A690 straight through afterwards) and Arriva the opposite. Therefore if drivers are playing silly buggers, they're holding their own operator up rather than the competitors.
Any terminating services in Durham (except very frequent ones with short turnarounds ie 21) go to the bus station where they can use the available/allocated stands to leave the bus.

The only thing this could impact on is other, smaller operators (don't think there are many, mind) - so if these go up to the railway station perhaps as an alternative. If there were a few services going up there one 21 or X12 per hour (delays permitting) could go up to the rail station and shuttle them?

Bit hard to do that when the lower part of North Road is one way.

(19 Apr 2016, 2:46 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Bit hard to do that when the lower part of North Road is one way.

I believe it may have been a suggestive solution to an on-going problem.

Solutions require a little bit of imagination!

(19 Apr 2016, 2:46 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Bit hard to do that when the lower part of North Road is one way.

I'm not saying 'do it now' - if there was sufficient chaos to justify the investment on possibly making it two way (instalment of traffic lights perhaps) then it, to me, would seem a very bright idea.

(19 Apr 2016, 2:15 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]Regarding Durham Bus Station - a somewhat far-fetched idea, but until developments take place to ease the station, some less-popular routes terminate at different locations away from the city centre (ie the Park & Ride with a 5-minute shuttle running), or even terminate 'in' it? ie running buses through the city centre and terminating on the main street right outside the bus station. ANE go one way round and GNE go the other way?

Quite a few services, from ANE, GNE and Scarlet Band already use North Road, opposite the station. Any more would probably be dangerous because pedestrians already have to try to see past parked up uses to get across the road, whilst also paying attention to buses turning left, leaving the station. There's a fair few accidents, there - I stopped some poor frustrated old guy from stepping out in front of a bus, just a couple of weeks ago.

Any plans for a new station really need to take up the current site, plus the road in front, plus the shops opposite. IIRC the last displayed plans moved the station and North road services in together, so adding another 15 or more vehicles an hour to the existing 60-ish that use the station.

Since when has the 22 departed from stand D on a Sunday or bank holiday?

I'll take it with a pinch of salt as the screens don't tally with the paper timetables here at all. Also shows it departing at 10:47 when it's 10:42

Stand B is showing mixture of normal weekday times for the 21 and x21 and really confusing people.

Also still had 50A on it, as did the paper timetable.

And don't even try to work out when the 64 is running to where.

They've been switched off

What a carry on....you would think a main Bus Station would make sure the correct information was showing.

(02 May 2016, 2:52 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]What a carry on....you would think a main Bus Station would make sure the correct information was showing.

Stanley had a few inconsistencies, too eg the x30 to Newcastle at both 14:55 and 15:00 but nowhere near as bad as Durham was.

There was no one "official" in sight, this morning, either, to put people right.

(19 Apr 2016, 12:43 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]It does swing both ways and my previous post was not disputing the fact that Go North East's drivers may cause some issues. It clearly states which operator I believe causes the biggest issue. I don't know how Go North East can cause the same amount of issues in Durham Bus Station as Arriva, when they do not have as many services running from or through the bus station each hour?

According to Google Maps:

A - ANE X12 to Newcastle (2 buses/hr), GNE X22 to Metrocentre (1 bus/hr)
B - GNE 21 to Newcastle (4 buses/hr), GNE 50 to South Shields (2 buses/hr), GNE X21 to Newcastle (2 buses/hr), 
C - GNE 15 to Consett (2 buses/hr), GNE 16 to Stanley/Castleside (4 buses/hr), GNE 128 to Beamish (1 bus/hr).
D - ANE 6 to West Auckland/Cockfield (5 buses/hr).
E - ANE 46 to Crook/Tow Law (3 buses/hr), ANE 48 to New Brancepeth (3 buses/hr)
F - ANE 49/49A to Brandon (6 buses/hr)
G - GNE 204 to Littletown (1 bus/hr), GNE 208 to Peterlee (1 bus/hr), GNE 265 to Seaham (1 bus/hr)
H - ANE 56 to Bishop Auckland (2 buses/hr), ANE 57/57A to Kelloe/Hartlepool (2 buses/hr), ANE X12 to Middlesbrough (2 buses/hr) 
J - ANE 22 to Sunderland (2 buses/hr), ANE 24 to Hartlepool (2 buses/hr), ANE 43 to Esh Winning (4 buses/hr), 
K - ANE 7 to Darlington (4 buses/hr), GNE X21 to Bishop Auckland (2 buses/hr)
L - GNE 20/20A to South Shields (6 buses/hr)

This means that Arriva has 37 services per hour running from/through Durham Bus Station, while Go North East has ten fewer at 27 services per hour. Arriva drivers (some - not all) are renowned for dumping their buses on a stand when a changeover is due to take place, until the next driver arrives to take over that bus. Go North East can't be guilty of the same thing, as, unlike Arriva, they undertake no driver changeovers at Durham.

Have you got any evidence of Go North East drivers 'refusing' to use the allocated layover stands? I by no means visit Durham Bus Station regularly, but I've certainly seen drivers on services 20/20A using the allocated layover stands when a bus is already pulled onto Stand L.

I have several occasions which have been documented and submitted to Go North East as 'evidence', including a Prince Bishops parking across the front of all 4 parking bays (blocking Arriva vehicles in).

(02 May 2016, 9:23 am)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Stand B is showing mixture of normal weekday times for the 21 and x21 and really confusing people.

Also still had 50A on it, as did the paper timetable.

And don't even try to work out when the 64 is running to where.

The info boards on Durham Rd were showing normal timetables. On Sundays and evenings  they show the 21 and X21 as separate journeys. 

Speaking of Google. They have the GNE  X22 as Sapphire and the X12 as a sapphire too

(02 May 2016, 11:05 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]The info boards on Durham Rd were showing normal timetables. On Sundays and evenings  they show the 21 and X21 as separate journeys. 

Speaking of Google. They have the GNE  X22 as Sapphire and the X12 as a sapphire too

I know its not Durham, but Google also have GNE X21 as a Sapphire at Bishop Auckland Bus Station

From Monday 4th July, Stand A will be out of use due to essential works that need to be carried out, services which use this stand will use a temporary bus stop outside the bus station on North Road (on the opposite side of the road to the stops for the 64). I'm not certain where the X12 is stopping at as the paper notice says ALL the services are stopping at this temporary stop but the screen on stand A was saying the X12 will leave from stand D during this time.