North East Buses

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...ssion=true

Update on B&T plans.

(12 Sep 2019, 12:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...ssion=true

Update on B&T plans.

People will start complaining when parallel bus routes start getting cut as a result of abstraction by the new train service...

(12 Sep 2019, 9:55 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]

People will start complaining when parallel bus routes start getting cut as a result of abstraction by the new train service...

I won't I'll be happy to have the train as I think arriva provides a terrible service in those areas. Personally I only use arriva to get from Cowper to Blyth and the rest of the time I go to Newcastle I use the 309

(18 Jul 2020, 11:05 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]https://publicaccess.northumberland.gov....=documents&keyVal=QDM4JHQS0CN00

Plans for the stations, some have changed quite a bit since the last time they released stuff. It also appears it's all being done as one now, no longer a delay to Seaton Delaval and Bebside.

(19 Jul 2020, 12:17 am)BoroLad wrote [ -> ]Surprised there's no connection from the platform line at Ashington station to further north on the line. If they ever want to reopen to Woodhorn (as has previously been considered), would they have to remodel that?

(18 Oct 2020, 11:11 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-englan...ssion=true

Interesting article on the work going on to check line suitability.

(18 Oct 2020, 6:43 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]I hope that they don't find anything untoward underground, given that very heavy freight trains currently run on the line.

I'm not sure that those wanting this scheme realise that parallel bus services will be cut come 2023. 

(19 Oct 2020, 8:33 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I've seen you mention this before and don't understand why it would be the case. 
Bus services and train services can often be dealing with different markets, going to different destinations. 
Along each of the 4 existing heavy rail routes in to Newcastle, bus operators run services alongside the rail network and between the same key destinations. Carlisle - Newcastle. Berwick - Newcastle. Durham - Newcastle. Middlesbrough - Newcastle.
What would be different between Blyth and Newcastle?

(25 Nov 2020, 4:55 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]158816 did a loop around Blyth, Bedlington Station and Morpeth from Newcastle at lunchtime.

(23 Jan 2021, 11:05 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Transport Secretary announces £34m investment for work to re-establish rail line between Ashington and Newcastle


https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2021-...-newcastle

(26 Nov 2020, 11:48 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]A new entrant into the travel market between Ashington and Newcastle is bound to take passengers from existing services - plenty of examples of this across the country. Locally, look what happened when the Metro extended to Sunderland.. And Northern Rail fares, heavily subsidised, are either the same as bus or slightly cheaper.
In all the other cases you mention the train came before the bus, and they have co-existed for many years.

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https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/7...5/detailed

(24 Jan 2021, 12:10 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]£34m for the line in the NE, £760m for the one in the south. 

As far as I'm aware the funding to get the Ashington to Newcastle line open again won't stretch to electrification either? (Please correct me if I'm wrong here mind). Which is horrendous for something opening in the 2020s, in Boris' "green and sustainable recovery from Covid-19" - https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/...65699?s=20.

(24 Jan 2021, 1:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Well let them work together in competition. The sort of competition that de-regulation and privatisation was meant to bring... 

Or, let them complement each other and see the area develop and grow as the new transport links are bound to see the area grow and prosper. 
Cheap land + improved road and rail transport links = developers wet dream.

(24 Jan 2021, 4:46 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]This, as someone who lives on the Blyth and Tyne line if I can get a train in 15 minutes to Newcastle vs a bus than can take an hour then sadly I really don't care about the bus route that runs parallel and neither will most locals.

Most routes will be barely affected anyway there's only 3 which are going to be hit hard imo (19 (GNE), X8 and X9) and some which will see changes and some decreases potentially (1, X7, X10, X11, X21) due to less demand or to cover up gaps which come from the train taking passengers. X7 in Amersham to replace X9 for example or changes to the X10/X11 to let more variations ie create a competitive bus for the X8 and to replace parts of the X9.

Overall it's a massive bonus for us as we get a quicker service which I'll imagine will be cheaper aswell if the rumours of using Metro fares.

(24 Jan 2021, 9:35 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]There's no doubt some people will choose the train over the bus.
However, I'd hazard a guess that many others will stick with the bus. You just have to look at Cramlington as an example of that. 

I think there's more to it than just journey times and it being a straight choice based on a 15min journey vs a 60min journey. Ultimate end destination and proximity to the station vs bus stop are two factors which come straight to mind. Then there's cost.
Just a couple of factors off the top of my head.

(25 Jan 2021, 1:20 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Well if it's using the Metro Zones which has been rumoured then the train will be cheaper at £5.30 vs £6.40 for the bus.

I know you mentioned Cramlington but the service there is a token service at best really being hourly and not running in the evenings and they've got an express service every 10 minutes which is literally non stop bar the Regent Centre and Gosforth. Around here I could imagine there being a large shift for commuters as the X7 is so unreliable with whatever mad scheme North Tyneside are upto lately around Gosforth or Sandy Lane and it's been known to take an hour to do a 9 mile journey (the same problems you'd hit in a car).

It's the same story with up Bebside who have the equally unreliable X8 for the same reasons and I could imagine there being a large shift up there with passengers potentially changing from bus to train if the fares are right (or just driving to the station and using the P&R).

Sadly it's one of the few areas where you can't even blame Arriva as they've tried their hardest to make them reliable but North Tyneside and Newcastle CC just set them up to fail. It's definitely interesting though to see how well it will do and whether we'll see a reduction in cars aswell with all the large car parks planned.

(25 Jan 2021, 9:24 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I appreciate there's other factors which comes in to play at Cramlington, but if the demand was there - there would probably be more of a service.
However for the vast majority of people in Cramlington, getting the bus in to the town is easier and that comes down to factors such as convenience and the location of the station vs the majority of the population. 

If you repeat that on the B&T line, again there will be similar situations.
If you're in Newbiggin, is getting a bus in to Ashington, walking to the station, hanging around waiting for a train and then hiking back up in to the town from Central Station really going to be an option for many?
If you're in Seghill and off to Uni in Newcastle or to work on Northumberland St - which is going to be the more attractive option?

I agree that for some the train will be a draw. Others will stick with the bus imo. 
As developers start building more properties in SE Northumberland, then as long as bus operators adapt to suit new markets - they should survive without too much of an issue. They have the flexibility that the train doesn't have. It's up to them to use that flexibility rather than keeping and maintaining the status quo.

(25 Jan 2021, 12:50 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah definitely agreed with Cramlington mind, I always think the station there is an unused asset and it's really in the wrong place. I don't believe they could put additional services though without it compromising the long distance trains since the platforms are directly on the ECML, in the same sense there's no service to Pegswood etc barely.

Agreed with the comments about Newbiggin but ngl I'd be tempted to change if I lived up there, I can't imagine there's too many people travelling the journey anyway as 90 minutes for a 30 minute car journey is unacceptable really. Not to mention the timings are crap aswell (buses being 33 and 53 minutes the hour) so someone starting at 9am would have get a bus 7am in the morning. I think it's where the Bebside P&R will come in place and they'll be hoping for passengers from the likes of there to drive down and change rather than drive all the way. 

Seghill will definitely be a bus only place though, tbh I can't see the X7 being impacted too much especially with all the new housing around Gosforth Park and New Hartley being built to top it up.

It'll definitely be an interesting in a few years time to see if we get proper integration like other cities like Leeds where you can get rail and bus tickets or we'll keep our trend of buses are buses, metro is metro, train is train and you're not meant to use more than one disconnected approach like up here.

(24 Apr 2021, 8:25 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Saw a post on Facebook about this earlier, which noted the journey time from Central Station to Ashington as 35 minutes. 

ANEs X20 service is 44 minutes from Haymarket to Ashington Bus Station, bang on 35 minutes from Newcastle to North Seaton. 

If we assume that Bedlington Station to Newcastle is roughly 30 minutes on the train, compare that to the 42 minutes on the X21. 

Then looking at Blyth. Anyone who lives in Blyth will either need to get to Bebside or Newsham, both stations will be at least a bus journey from the town centre while also being a reasonable walk from the nearest 'large' housing area (a longer walk than the nearest bus stop, in both cases). 

I've said it before, but now knowing times and the actual route, I can't grasp why groups have spent years campaigning for this. I have in the past supported the project, but as details become clearer it seems more and more like a waste of time and effort. Realistically, unless you live slap bang in the middle of Ashington, or in Bedlington Station/Bebside/Newsham then I don't see how this is more appealing than a bus - especially given buses on routes in those areas will likely be of higher spec than whatever Northern put on it. For those living in Blyth and Bedlington, the bus seems like a no-brainer, I'd argue similar for those living nearer the south side of Ashington. 

Looking at Morpeth. They have a station served by pretty top-spec Azuma trains (approx. 15 minute journey time), and a Northern service (approx. 20 minute journey time). I have never seen a huge amount of people use the Northern train from Morpeth, certainly nowhere near as many as I've seen pour onto ANEs express services to Newcastle from the town centre (which are slower). 

I've seen many people excited about the B&T, but I've absolutely no idea who it's even for.

(24 Apr 2021, 9:53 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Your missing one big thing here and comparing times at 2pm in afternoon or whenever which isn't commuter times. The X21 from Bedlington Station in the morning takes 52 minutes and that's if there's no traffic at all. If there's the usual chaos through Gosforth High Street or an accident on the A1 then start adding time on and it's unreliable and useless so you end up having to catch a bus 30 minutes earlier for the X21 now than you'd need to.

Using a train on the otherhand if the trains say it'll take 25 minutes, it'll take 25 minutes so if you start work at 9am and the train gets in at 8:38am then it's a route if you could take. If you start work at 9am and the bus gets in at the 8.38am then you'll have the catch the bus that gets you in at 8.08am to account for the traffic issues mentioned above so it starts to add up considerably as you won't have enough time to get to work if it's 10/15 minutes late which happens regularly.

Even known the time difference on the actual bus/train isn't too different once you account for getting to a station. The train would leave at 8.13am but the bus leaves at 7.16am and that's a considerable difference for a commuter.

Also I believe the fares are going to be integrated with the Metro zones so it means if you work on the Metro route you can change at Northumberland Park / Central and go to a massive area of Tyne and Wear with one change on one ticket rather than the £10.90 you pay daily currently.

This railway is pretty much unheard of up here but it's more comparable to the lines like the Manchester to Glossop Line where Glossop has 1.12 million users a year and about 5 other stations each have about 100k - 200k users a year or the Manchester to Buxton Line which each have roughly 200k passengers a year on average bar 2 which are much much lower.

(24 Apr 2021, 10:27 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I think I'd used Saturday timetables as they loaded up first on Bustimes - my bad. Just as a note, however, the morning peak runs into Newcastle have an extra 10 minutes or so to do Gosforth to Newcastle to allow for traffic, even pre-Covid I've never arrived into Newcastle more than a few minutes late during the morning peak due to this padding in the timetable. 

I'd looked for fare info but couldn't seem to find any. I think that'll be appealing for some, but again if folk already have to catch a bus to the station are they going to fork out for an additional ticket? 

Aware there are benefits to it, but can't get away from thinking that the location of stations in relation to the bulk of the population in each town is far from ideal. Equally, I feel like frequency and potentially fares could put people off making short hops - who is going to go from Ashington to Blyth on it, for example?

(25 Apr 2021, 7:36 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah some fair points mind honestly I can't many short hop journeys but tbh there isn't really any on any railway lines. Who wants to go to Blyth regardless ?. Mind I think there might be some shuttle for Britishvolt from Bebside. Not sure if it's ever planned but having through trains to the Metro Centre and beyond could be a popular move in the future potentially (think it's standalone at first though).

Tbf on the journeys tho I can imagine it being cars that it might pick more than just bus users. I know around here (Seaton Valley) that's there's a fair few who'll drive down to Northumberland Park or one of the other Metro stations along that stretch and dump their cars and Metro into town and they'll be the sort of users who'll move as much as existing bus users.

With location admit some of them aren't ideal like but Prudhoe on the Hexham line and that can pick up over a 100k users a year and I think Haltwhistle has something like 70k for a town of 4.5k people. 

Obviously I can't comment on the X21 but the X7 is absolutely horrific in mornings used to be anything from 35 mins to 55 mins. Got to the stage where I'd bus / metro to avoid it in the end which isn't cheap but was worth it.

Not sure where I read about the fares, want to say SENRUG but could be wrong.

(25 Apr 2021, 2:00 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Aye, in fairness most of my comments have been in relation to folk dumping the bus for the train. I do imagine they are aiming for car drivers which, as I think you pointed out, could be smart for folk from Newbiggin, Ellington etc driving only to Bebside - but I wonder how many people would be willing to pay for a car and a train on top (let's face it, in a part of the world that isn't flush with cash). 

To me, and I'm sure there is rationale to the contrary, the idea of a Metro extension was always more attractive.

(14 Aug 2021, 12:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]https://bbc.in/3jUIj3I

Looks like there's been a test train out on the B&T