(17 Aug 2015, 7:24 pm)S813 FVK Surely all of these screenshots would be better off being sent to arriva rather on this thread? Not sure how many arriva behind the scenes members (not drivers) are registered on the forum but by sending the stuff to Arriva directly, they may be able to evaluate the punctuality of the service and then make changes where necessary.

(17 Aug 2015, 7:30 pm)Jimmi They are going to Arriva, seems like I am getting nowhere with this though.

(17 Aug 2015, 7:32 pm)aureolin Have you tried the new complaint process?

(17 Aug 2015, 7:30 pm)Jimmi They are going to Arriva, seems like I am getting nowhere with this though.

(18 Aug 2015, 8:06 pm)roar its a bit pointless sending them to arriva, they have more access to the AVL than you and they get a report of every service with combined information that you have no access to. If you seen this information you would understand that what you see in the app can be far away from what is happening on the ground. GPS drops out quite often and puts things in the rong place at the wrong time, EE and Vodafone are looking into this.

As an example a ATM can lose GPS and the clock will still keep counting down until the ATM picks enough GPS signals up, if this is after the driver has changed route details on the ATM then the service will still show as getting later and later until it drops off the system or one of the bods in the office notice and pull if from the system. GPS is currently running about 30 seconds slow so a driver can leave a timing point spot on time as his ETM strikes the minute, GPS time will show it as leaving 1 minute early as the system works in minutes not seconds, this is why other operators have not give the public access to the data yet as it still needs ironing out to be reliable.

(21 Aug 2015, 2:39 pm)Tom Turned up either 17 or 47 minutes late in the end, either way the 14:32 didn't turn up at all. No explanation from the driver either when other people asked him.

(21 Aug 2015, 2:43 pm)Dan 5151 and 6031 are both currently running 12 minutes late - the roadworks at Killingworth are resulting in substantial delays... No fault of Go North East's really: blame the council.

(21 Aug 2015, 2:45 pm)Tom Did the 14:32 bus come then (from Asda, so couldn't have been as a result of roadworks in Killingworth)? People at the bus stop were saying they were there at 14:25 and it had never came, but I got off the 1 at 14:35ish.

(21 Aug 2015, 2:51 pm)Dan Is this the 14:17 bus from Benton ASDA to Whitley Bay?

(21 Aug 2015, 2:53 pm)Tom Yes that's the one. Would normally have stayed on the 1 but I saw a couple of people waiting who I knew got the 17.

(21 Aug 2015, 3:26 pm)Dan Volvo B10BLE 5166 arrived at Benton ASDA 18 minutes late (14:30), so was regulated and dropped back into service later into the route (now on-time again). It's quite possible that this delay meant that, if the driver was to continue in service, s/he would have exceeded his legal driving hours limit, meaning that regulation was the only option in this instance..?

The following bus (5151) actually departed North Shields towards Cramlington on-time, but the roadworks paired with the increased number of passengers due to the previous service being regulated resulted in the return journey from Cramlington to Whitley Bay being delayed.

(21 Aug 2015, 3:32 pm)Tom Cheers for the info, the bus still should have really operated though, as it could have departed Benton Asda only 15 minutes late, then made up it's time like the delayed 15:02 but did (was 17 minutes late, but as you mentioned got down to 12 minutes late). But I guess the drivers driving limits are more important if that was the case. There were some very unhappy people on that bus though, complaining about the 17, and also saying apparently the 17 will drop to hourly in October they were saying but I highly doubt that?

(21 Aug 2015, 3:49 pm)Dan As we regularly hear on this forum, running a bus operation is neither easy nor simple. We need to look at the bigger picture and realise not everything is black and white.

I don't get involved with where and when driver changeovers take place as it's not my department, but as I suggested previously, it's entirely possible that the control room could have opted to regulate that service on the basis that the driver was close to exceeding his/her driving hours. The supervisors' hands would have been tied in this instance, if this was the case. Bus operators have to make sure there's enough lee-way in duty boards to allow drivers to be late without exceeding driving hours, but they also have to make the duties efficient to avoid wasting resources.

This, I feel, is the disadvantage to cross-town and cross-city services. Whilst popular in years gone by, a large number of bus operators have moved away from this model, and now favour simple streamlined frequencies between the different 'hubs' across their network, allowing passengers to transfer from service to service as appropriate. These services face problems of their own, as a small delay can lead to quite a big impact with services ultimately running in tandem, which is why some members of the forum have suggested that they prefer the old cross-city service model. I recently read quite a cynical article based on Arriva's new "Frequenta" brand, which branded the services under this identity (and those intended to fall under this identity in the future) as some of the most unreliable, given that they regularly bunch up and run in pairs.

In Sunderland, most customers seemingly prefer cross-city services. Stagecoach's services in the area are very successful, but peak-times are a nightmare and regularly see buses running in excess of 20 minutes late. Over in Newcastle, Stanley and Durham, Go North East has recently undertaken a customer consultation which asked for feedback on the company's plans to split the services at Stanley, in an attempt to overcome delays. The company has yet to reveal the results of this customer consultation on the public domain, but I'd expect that most would approve of the "hub" model if it was going to provide a more reliable service.

A timetable has to be realistic and achievable; simply put, if it isn't, changes must be made accordingly. If Go North East's AVL data proves that there are issues with timekeeping on service 17, perhaps the next step to improve it could be by splitting the service.

(21 Aug 2015, 4:07 pm)aureolin Scheduling is within an operators control though. Does anyone have an idea of how much leeway is there for late running planned into your average schedule?

This is a gripe I have with other industries, where they'll schedule a worker for successive 13 hour shifts. Completely inflexible and no leeway to ensure the regs on daily rest between shifts is met.

(22 Aug 2015, 8:33 pm)tyresmoke All of this considered, I think our 95% punctuality figure for the last month (the best Sapphire route in the country!) is thanks to our close knit team who will try their best to keep things running. Lost mileage is very small too, though I don't have a figure.