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+--- Thread: Disruptions and driver shortages (/showthread.php?tid=3532)
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RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - mb134 - 02 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 9:57 pm)James101
It’s not the only way though is it?
Growing a strong co-operative culture, positive working environment. Empowering staff, making them feel valued. Favourable pay & terms.
Similar to what’s needed to to attract and retain new staff I suppose.
Agree. Culture is a long game. Also vastly cheaper to invest in retaining staff than attracting new ones.
A totally positive work environment for bus drivers won't exactly be an easy thing to achieve at the best of times, let alone at the moment.
Bus broken down in front? Endless customers having a go at the driver.
Bus broken down? Grumpy passengers to deal with until new one arrives.
Working a late Friday or Saturday? You're now essentially babysitting a bunch of drunk adults while also having to drive a 10+ tonne vehicle.
Those are just three little things that spring to mind that could cause a driver to get annoyed, add to that all the current abuse due to the staff shortage and it's no wonder people want to leave. There's only so much management can do in the short term, there is no magic wand.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - James101 - 02 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 10:04 pm)Dan I think the reality is different - in any bus company.
I agree on those points being what’s needed to attract and retain staff, but generally speaking I’d say overtime is covered by the same pool of drivers who will always work overtime.
That pool has probably reduced in size significantly as it’s not as attractive coming into work to receive abuse, and because there has been an unlimited amount of overtime available for such a long period now that even drivers that like doing overtime are suffering overtime fatigue.
If overtime dried up, it’d become a lot more desirable again.
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I’m not sure I follow entirely. If a driver has happily worked a 6-day week since 2015, I don’t really see how continuing at the same rate would suddenly now fatigue them. Though I do see how that if abuse from customers is on the rise, it would put drivers off picking up extras. It may be the case that any pride in wearing the uniform, providing a service, has been eroded.
As long as the removal/‘drying up’ of overtime isn’t been used as a Shapps style threat, then I agree that relying on overtime isn’t a sustainable way to staff a rota. It may be a little disingenuous for job adverts to promote overtime as a route to a £35k salary if the genuine intention is to recruit to a point where that overtime will no longer be available.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - mb134 - 02 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 10:10 pm)Andreos1 This isn't a new issue. This isn't an issue unique to current or recent management or the pandemic.
This is an issue which has gone on for far too long. It sees people making the wrong decisions (see above) rewarded. Whilst those at the receiving end (generally the drivers at the bottom of the heirachy) shafted.
It stinks and it's resulted in the situation we see now. A situation which has built up over years and a situation that conveniently has a finger pointed in the direction of Covid.
So how are current management meant to sort it then?
Majority of my post was relating to the current situation, with current management.
There's realistically always going to be overtime of some description, holidays need covered, as does sickness. Generally that's more than fine, because you'll always have 'x' amount of drivers who are more than happy to do it. But those drivers also have a limit, so when the overtime is constant they'll eventually say no - which is a part of the reason for the current situation.
I'm not disagreeing that drivers should be paid more, and should have been paid more for years, but again it's only part of the solution. Lots of people have chosen the end of the pandemic to explore new careers, or to spend more time with family for example. I'd suggest it would be hard for any management to forsee the Covid pandemic and the subsequent landscape. It's not just the bus industry either, I know some people working in recruitment and from what I gather people are looking for new jobs across the board - lots with no issues where they currently are, but just want a new challenge. It's hard for management to stop that too, especially within a bus company where there is only so much progression.
I'm not denying that decisions made by management at some point in the past could have had an impact on this situation now, but I think it's unfair to suggest that the current driver shortage is mainly down to management when the working landscape has changed so drastically over the past couple of years.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:26 pm)James101 I’m not sure I follow entirely. If a driver has happily worked a 6-day week since 2015, I don’t really see how continuing at the same rate would suddenly now fatigue them. Though I do see how that if abuse from customers is on the rise, it would put drivers off picking up extras. It may be the case that any pride in wearing the uniform, providing a service, has been eroded.
As long as the removal/‘drying up’ of overtime isn’t been used as a Shapps style threat, then I agree that relying on overtime isn’t a sustainable way to staff a rota. It may be a little disingenuous for job adverts to promote overtime as a route to a £35k salary if the genuine intention is to recruit to a point where that overtime will no longer be available.
The thing is, they probably won't have done a 6-day week since 2015. They'll likely have done a 6-day week every now and again to help out, picking up some overtime, but they're now being asked to do it constantly which no longer suits them - and those occasional 6-day weeks turn into constant 5-day.
All bus companies will rely on overtime to some extent, it is massively inefficient not to do so. You'll always have holidays and sickness to cover, so overtime will always be there, the difference is that usually it's a small amount and is competitive, for want of a better word.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Andreos1 - 02 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 10:28 pm)mb134 So how are current management meant to sort it then?
Majority of my post was relating to the current situation, with current management.
There's realistically always going to be overtime of some description, holidays need covered, as does sickness. Generally that's more than fine, because you'll always have 'x' amount of drivers who are more than happy to do it. But those drivers also have a limit, so when the overtime is constant they'll eventually say no - which is a part of the reason for the current situation.
I'm not disagreeing that drivers should be paid more, and should have been paid more for years, but again it's only part of the solution. Lots of people have chosen the end of the pandemic to explore new careers, or to spend more time with family for example. I'd suggest it would be hard for any management to forsee the Covid pandemic and the subsequent landscape. It's not just the bus industry either, I know some people working in recruitment and from what I gather people are looking for new jobs across the board - lots with no issues where they currently are, but just want a new challenge. It's hard for management to stop that too, especially within a bus company where there is only so much progression.
I'm not denying that decisions made by management at some point in the past could have had an impact on this situation now, but I think it's unfair to suggest that the current driver shortage is mainly down to management when the working landscape has changed so drastically over the past couple of years.
The thing is, they probably won't have done a 6-day week since 2015. They'll likely have done a 6-day week every now and again to help out, picking up some overtime, but they're now being asked to do it constantly which no longer suits them - and those occasional 6-day weeks turn into constant 5-day.
All bus companies will rely on overtime to some extent, it is massively inefficient not to do so. You'll always have holidays and sickness to cover, so overtime will always be there, the difference is that usually it's a small amount and is competitive, for want of a better word.
There are many ways to improve buy in and loyalty beyond pay.
If pay is a motivating factor, then look at it and do something about it.
Ditto rotas, planning, routes, management, rewards, incentives, on-board driver monitoring, micro-management and many other things beyond fancy slogans and depot meetings that promise lots, but deliver little.
Ultimately, they need to value the people that keep the company alive.
Without them, it sinks.
I don't think there's an all singing, all dancing solution which will fix this problem overnight.
It's far too gone for that.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Ambassador - 02 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 9:22 pm)Dan It seems like Go North East are trying to address the issues with retention and recruitment by offering drivers the largest pay increase ever previously offered (upping top hourly rates to the highest out of the three big operators in the region), achievable within a year’s service or immediately when joining the company with a PCV licence. Let’s hope it’s voted through as it should result in improved service delivery.
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And here is an issue…it’s not just about money. This is why GNE are struggling, it’s…just old ways. The great resignation isn’t just affecting offices, it’s everywhere.
Modern and successful businesses whilst offering increased pay are offering something more. It’s about the colleague experience, that’s a huge huge thing now, love it or hate it. They have to be kept engaged, they don’t influence policy too much but they feel involved and listened to. Something like internal comms, recognition and reward are all hugely key things and to his credit, MG sort of did it with his videos in the pandemic.
A professional internal comms, colleague experience team would have helped with Chester closure and managed the fallout (tbh an equally competent team could have handled the external comms way better too)
We might need to bring the bus industry kicking and screaming into 2022
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Stanleyone - 03 Sep 2022
From an ex drivers point of view, I left just over 6 months ago, opting for life as an HGV driver. 10 years I spent at GNE, Crook, CLS and finally Stanley/Consett. I loved the job but the politics of it were ridiculous, the final push to get out came after being "awarded" with a 6 month personal coaching plan (PCP) for hitting the trigger points. These trigger points being off more than 1 week more than once over a year long period. Harsh I thought seeing as those periods of absence were for 1, catching covid 2, Death of a family member and finally 3 a heart condition, but hey trigger points. Add to that the daily abuse recieved from those not happy about the bus infront not running, over 18s not getting the child fare, it all added up. Stressed coming in from work every day/Night.
Since leaving the buses, stress is no more, work/life balance is so much better. Still friends with those on the buses and it's the same talk of " the jobs sh@@ ", pay needs to go up massively but years of " we can't afford x% " are now paying off and drivers like me that have left and others that are waiting to go through their class 2 or 1 and get away.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - James101 - 03 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 10:16 pm)mb134 A totally positive work environment for bus drivers won't exactly be an easy thing to achieve at the best of times, let alone at the moment.
Bus broken down in front? Endless customers having a go at the driver.
Bus broken down? Grumpy passengers to deal with until new one arrives.
Working a late Friday or Saturday? You're now essentially babysitting a bunch of drunk adults while also having to drive a 10+ tonne vehicle.
Those are just three little things that spring to mind that could cause a driver to get annoyed, add to that all the current abuse due to the staff shortage and it's no wonder people want to leave. There's only so much management can do in the short term, there is no magic wand.
There are plenty of jobs with anti-social aspects that don’t struggle to recruit staff. It comes down to the compensation and culture. Being paid a smidge over minimum wage in a toxic workplace probably isn’t worth it.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Andreos1 - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 7:36 am)Stanleyone From an ex drivers point of view, I left just over 6 months ago, opting for life as an HGV driver. 10 years I spent at GNE, Crook, CLS and finally Stanley/Consett. I loved the job but the politics of it were ridiculous, the final push to get out came after being "awarded" with a 6 month personal coaching plan (PCP) for hitting the trigger points. These trigger points being off more than 1 week more than once over a year long period. Harsh I thought seeing as those periods of absence were for 1, catching covid 2, Death of a family member and finally 3 a heart condition, but hey trigger points. Add to that the daily abuse recieved from those not happy about the bus infront not running, over 18s not getting the child fare, it all added up. Stressed coming in from work every day/Night.
Since leaving the buses, stress is no more, work/life balance is so much better. Still friends with those on the buses and it's the same talk of " the jobs sh@@ ", pay needs to go up massively but years of " we can't afford x% " are now paying off and drivers like me that have left and others that are waiting to go through their class 2 or 1 and get away.
Tell me that's nothing to do with management or culture.
If you do, I'll change my name to Susan and wander up and down Stanley High Street in a blonde wig and high heels.
It's absolutely everything to do with management and culture and is a sad symptomatic example of what goes on with regards to something some view as 'easily disposable and replaceable staff'.
I've heard theories that operators often encourage depot level managenent to get rid of the older heads.
The older heads who have accrued a slightly higher pay, extra benefits or something else can then be replaced by a cheaper, younger, inexperienced head who doesn't have those same perks.
How true it is, I'm not sure.
But I can see logic in it.
(03 Sep 2022, 8:09 am)James101 There are plenty of jobs with anti-social aspects that don’t struggle to recruit staff. It comes down to the compensation and culture. Being paid a smidge over minimum wage in a toxic workplace probably isn’t worth it.
I think Stanleyone nailed it above.
There's a reason the bus in front is cancelled (driver shortage/engineering budget/poor planning/insert other reason) and there's a reason a loyal member of staff was pushed out.
It comes back to that culture you mentioned and the people who allow it to fester.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Rob44 - 03 Sep 2022
Just looked at cancellations for today... can anyone tell me how to get home when the last FOUR yrs FOUR 28b are cancelled. ????? PISS TAKE
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Stanleyone - 03 Sep 2022
Totally agree it's the culture set in place over decades. Quote from an old head when I first started " watch your back, they'll (management) will do everything they can to get rid of you". That was in 2003 during my 1st still at GNE. Left within a year, before the last shortage and influx of polish drivers (nothing against those, still have many polish friends). Returned for my 2nd stint in 2012. Culture still the same, sad thing is most of the 2003 management had gone but those that had replaced them had been Drivers / LDs when I was first there. Culture will never change, sadly.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Jimmi - 03 Sep 2022
(02 Sep 2022, 6:31 pm)Aaron21 No 204 will run between 11.32 & 16.32 tomorrowMercifully from 11.32 the 204/204A is now being covered by a Washington driver using 6001 for the next few hours although service is still listed as not running between 14.32 and 16.32 this afternoon.
The first two 81s are cancelled same as the 83
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Unber43 - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 9:59 am)Rob44 Just looked at cancellations for today... can anyone tell me how to get home when the last FOUR yrs FOUR 28b are cancelled. ????? PISS TAKEIf the last bus not running GNE should pay for a Taxi for you!
The cancellations are a joke.
Oh look we invested milllions in new buses, so we have to change depots, so you're very reliable Q3 Versa's are going, and we are moving to a Depot with massive driver shortages causing a 2 hour wait for a Q3 from Wallsend.
4 hour wait 71
5 hour wait for 204/A It was
90 mins wait for a 47
These cancellations were not to improve reliability or to cut down on the driver shortage it was for the contracts they won for schools & other ones. I think the public needs to know that. GNE should tell them, but they won't will there.
Imagine this conversation with Customer Service if you are not working when you need to contact them,
"Hi, I can't get home till tomorrow as I'm stuck at Newcastle as you've cancelled the last 28B"
GNE CS "We are very sorry, however this is due to the 60+ contracts we have won, so we've cancelled a load of our normal services to have drivers to win these contracts"
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Ambassador - 03 Sep 2022
My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Unber43 - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 11:36 am)Ambassador My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!According to Bus Times there is a 21 at Brandon.
Several between CLS and Low Fell, but only 1 going to Newcastle between Low Fell and Gateshead.
Whats the point of complaining they won't do anything, and even if they try to do something they'll probably cut another service as they can't retain drivers.
But ofcourse its not management fault. The entire GNE management should apologise.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Ambassador - 03 Sep 2022
The X12 that would pick the slack up is running full from Birtley to Newcastle
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Unber43 - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 12:03 pm)Ambassador The X12 that would pick the slack up is running full from Birtley to NewcastleAnd its only a pulsar!
Every 15 mins clearly isn't cutting it.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Andreos1 - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 12:03 pm)Ambassador The X12 that would pick the slack up is running full from Birtley to Newcastle
Was just wondering how that was doing today!
Make sure you're at the front of the queue for the ride back on it!
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Jimmi - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 11:36 am)Ambassador My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!X21 has been a chaotic mess today, lots of late running, trips cancelled cos of late running and a bit of getting lost, streetdeckfan won't be pleased to hear one missed out part of Woodhouse Close but that's not as bad as one driver being completely flummoxed by Durham:[attachment=10218]
[attachment=10220]
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Storx - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 12:06 pm)Unber43 And its only a pulsar!
Every 15 mins clearly isn't cutting it.
Pulsars are the biggest buses at Stockton who run it.
RE: Disruptions and driver shortages - Unber43 - 03 Sep 2022
(03 Sep 2022, 1:50 pm)Jimmi X21 has been a chaotic mess today, lots of late running, trips cancelled cos of late running and a bit of getting lost, streetdeckfan won't be pleased to hear one missed out part of Woodhouse Close but that's not as bad as one driver being completely flummoxed by Durham:An X21 missed the entirety of Pity Me.
#2
I hope no drivers got backlash for making mistakes, its another managment failure to properly prepare them for the route, if anything i feel bad for the drivers. They need that layover time back at Newcastle or West Aukland