Disruptions and driver shortages
Disruptions and driver shortages
(02 Sep 2022, 9:57 pm)James101
It’s not the only way though is it?
Growing a strong co-operative culture, positive working environment. Empowering staff, making them feel valued. Favourable pay & terms.
Similar to what’s needed to to attract and retain new staff I suppose.
Agree. Culture is a long game. Also vastly cheaper to invest in retaining staff than attracting new ones.
(02 Sep 2022, 9:57 pm)James101
It’s not the only way though is it?
Growing a strong co-operative culture, positive working environment. Empowering staff, making them feel valued. Favourable pay & terms.
Similar to what’s needed to to attract and retain new staff I suppose.
Agree. Culture is a long game. Also vastly cheaper to invest in retaining staff than attracting new ones.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:04 pm)Dan I think the reality is different - in any bus company.
I agree on those points being what’s needed to attract and retain staff, but generally speaking I’d say overtime is covered by the same pool of drivers who will always work overtime.
That pool has probably reduced in size significantly as it’s not as attractive coming into work to receive abuse, and because there has been an unlimited amount of overtime available for such a long period now that even drivers that like doing overtime are suffering overtime fatigue.
If overtime dried up, it’d become a lot more desirable again.
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(02 Sep 2022, 10:04 pm)Dan I think the reality is different - in any bus company.
I agree on those points being what’s needed to attract and retain staff, but generally speaking I’d say overtime is covered by the same pool of drivers who will always work overtime.
That pool has probably reduced in size significantly as it’s not as attractive coming into work to receive abuse, and because there has been an unlimited amount of overtime available for such a long period now that even drivers that like doing overtime are suffering overtime fatigue.
If overtime dried up, it’d become a lot more desirable again.
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(02 Sep 2022, 10:10 pm)Andreos1 This isn't a new issue. This isn't an issue unique to current or recent management or the pandemic.
This is an issue which has gone on for far too long. It sees people making the wrong decisions (see above) rewarded. Whilst those at the receiving end (generally the drivers at the bottom of the heirachy) shafted.
It stinks and it's resulted in the situation we see now. A situation which has built up over years and a situation that conveniently has a finger pointed in the direction of Covid.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:26 pm)James101 I’m not sure I follow entirely. If a driver has happily worked a 6-day week since 2015, I don’t really see how continuing at the same rate would suddenly now fatigue them. Though I do see how that if abuse from customers is on the rise, it would put drivers off picking up extras. It may be the case that any pride in wearing the uniform, providing a service, has been eroded.
As long as the removal/‘drying up’ of overtime isn’t been used as a Shapps style threat, then I agree that relying on overtime isn’t a sustainable way to staff a rota. It may be a little disingenuous for job adverts to promote overtime as a route to a £35k salary if the genuine intention is to recruit to a point where that overtime will no longer be available.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:10 pm)Andreos1 This isn't a new issue. This isn't an issue unique to current or recent management or the pandemic.
This is an issue which has gone on for far too long. It sees people making the wrong decisions (see above) rewarded. Whilst those at the receiving end (generally the drivers at the bottom of the heirachy) shafted.
It stinks and it's resulted in the situation we see now. A situation which has built up over years and a situation that conveniently has a finger pointed in the direction of Covid.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:26 pm)James101 I’m not sure I follow entirely. If a driver has happily worked a 6-day week since 2015, I don’t really see how continuing at the same rate would suddenly now fatigue them. Though I do see how that if abuse from customers is on the rise, it would put drivers off picking up extras. It may be the case that any pride in wearing the uniform, providing a service, has been eroded.
As long as the removal/‘drying up’ of overtime isn’t been used as a Shapps style threat, then I agree that relying on overtime isn’t a sustainable way to staff a rota. It may be a little disingenuous for job adverts to promote overtime as a route to a £35k salary if the genuine intention is to recruit to a point where that overtime will no longer be available.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:28 pm)mb134 So how are current management meant to sort it then?
Majority of my post was relating to the current situation, with current management.
There's realistically always going to be overtime of some description, holidays need covered, as does sickness. Generally that's more than fine, because you'll always have 'x' amount of drivers who are more than happy to do it. But those drivers also have a limit, so when the overtime is constant they'll eventually say no - which is a part of the reason for the current situation.
I'm not disagreeing that drivers should be paid more, and should have been paid more for years, but again it's only part of the solution. Lots of people have chosen the end of the pandemic to explore new careers, or to spend more time with family for example. I'd suggest it would be hard for any management to forsee the Covid pandemic and the subsequent landscape. It's not just the bus industry either, I know some people working in recruitment and from what I gather people are looking for new jobs across the board - lots with no issues where they currently are, but just want a new challenge. It's hard for management to stop that too, especially within a bus company where there is only so much progression.
I'm not denying that decisions made by management at some point in the past could have had an impact on this situation now, but I think it's unfair to suggest that the current driver shortage is mainly down to management when the working landscape has changed so drastically over the past couple of years.
The thing is, they probably won't have done a 6-day week since 2015. They'll likely have done a 6-day week every now and again to help out, picking up some overtime, but they're now being asked to do it constantly which no longer suits them - and those occasional 6-day weeks turn into constant 5-day.
All bus companies will rely on overtime to some extent, it is massively inefficient not to do so. You'll always have holidays and sickness to cover, so overtime will always be there, the difference is that usually it's a small amount and is competitive, for want of a better word.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:28 pm)mb134 So how are current management meant to sort it then?
Majority of my post was relating to the current situation, with current management.
There's realistically always going to be overtime of some description, holidays need covered, as does sickness. Generally that's more than fine, because you'll always have 'x' amount of drivers who are more than happy to do it. But those drivers also have a limit, so when the overtime is constant they'll eventually say no - which is a part of the reason for the current situation.
I'm not disagreeing that drivers should be paid more, and should have been paid more for years, but again it's only part of the solution. Lots of people have chosen the end of the pandemic to explore new careers, or to spend more time with family for example. I'd suggest it would be hard for any management to forsee the Covid pandemic and the subsequent landscape. It's not just the bus industry either, I know some people working in recruitment and from what I gather people are looking for new jobs across the board - lots with no issues where they currently are, but just want a new challenge. It's hard for management to stop that too, especially within a bus company where there is only so much progression.
I'm not denying that decisions made by management at some point in the past could have had an impact on this situation now, but I think it's unfair to suggest that the current driver shortage is mainly down to management when the working landscape has changed so drastically over the past couple of years.
The thing is, they probably won't have done a 6-day week since 2015. They'll likely have done a 6-day week every now and again to help out, picking up some overtime, but they're now being asked to do it constantly which no longer suits them - and those occasional 6-day weeks turn into constant 5-day.
All bus companies will rely on overtime to some extent, it is massively inefficient not to do so. You'll always have holidays and sickness to cover, so overtime will always be there, the difference is that usually it's a small amount and is competitive, for want of a better word.
(02 Sep 2022, 9:22 pm)Dan It seems like Go North East are trying to address the issues with retention and recruitment by offering drivers the largest pay increase ever previously offered (upping top hourly rates to the highest out of the three big operators in the region), achievable within a year’s service or immediately when joining the company with a PCV licence. Let’s hope it’s voted through as it should result in improved service delivery.
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(02 Sep 2022, 9:22 pm)Dan It seems like Go North East are trying to address the issues with retention and recruitment by offering drivers the largest pay increase ever previously offered (upping top hourly rates to the highest out of the three big operators in the region), achievable within a year’s service or immediately when joining the company with a PCV licence. Let’s hope it’s voted through as it should result in improved service delivery.
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From an ex drivers point of view, I left just over 6 months ago, opting for life as an HGV driver. 10 years I spent at GNE, Crook, CLS and finally Stanley/Consett. I loved the job but the politics of it were ridiculous, the final push to get out came after being "awarded" with a 6 month personal coaching plan (PCP) for hitting the trigger points. These trigger points being off more than 1 week more than once over a year long period. Harsh I thought seeing as those periods of absence were for 1, catching covid 2, Death of a family member and finally 3 a heart condition, but hey trigger points. Add to that the daily abuse recieved from those not happy about the bus infront not running, over 18s not getting the child fare, it all added up. Stressed coming in from work every day/Night.
Since leaving the buses, stress is no more, work/life balance is so much better. Still friends with those on the buses and it's the same talk of " the jobs sh@@ ", pay needs to go up massively but years of " we can't afford x% " are now paying off and drivers like me that have left and others that are waiting to go through their class 2 or 1 and get away.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:16 pm)mb134 A totally positive work environment for bus drivers won't exactly be an easy thing to achieve at the best of times, let alone at the moment.
Bus broken down in front? Endless customers having a go at the driver.
Bus broken down? Grumpy passengers to deal with until new one arrives.
Working a late Friday or Saturday? You're now essentially babysitting a bunch of drunk adults while also having to drive a 10+ tonne vehicle.
Those are just three little things that spring to mind that could cause a driver to get annoyed, add to that all the current abuse due to the staff shortage and it's no wonder people want to leave. There's only so much management can do in the short term, there is no magic wand.
(02 Sep 2022, 10:16 pm)mb134 A totally positive work environment for bus drivers won't exactly be an easy thing to achieve at the best of times, let alone at the moment.
Bus broken down in front? Endless customers having a go at the driver.
Bus broken down? Grumpy passengers to deal with until new one arrives.
Working a late Friday or Saturday? You're now essentially babysitting a bunch of drunk adults while also having to drive a 10+ tonne vehicle.
Those are just three little things that spring to mind that could cause a driver to get annoyed, add to that all the current abuse due to the staff shortage and it's no wonder people want to leave. There's only so much management can do in the short term, there is no magic wand.
(03 Sep 2022, 7:36 am)Stanleyone From an ex drivers point of view, I left just over 6 months ago, opting for life as an HGV driver. 10 years I spent at GNE, Crook, CLS and finally Stanley/Consett. I loved the job but the politics of it were ridiculous, the final push to get out came after being "awarded" with a 6 month personal coaching plan (PCP) for hitting the trigger points. These trigger points being off more than 1 week more than once over a year long period. Harsh I thought seeing as those periods of absence were for 1, catching covid 2, Death of a family member and finally 3 a heart condition, but hey trigger points. Add to that the daily abuse recieved from those not happy about the bus infront not running, over 18s not getting the child fare, it all added up. Stressed coming in from work every day/Night.
Since leaving the buses, stress is no more, work/life balance is so much better. Still friends with those on the buses and it's the same talk of " the jobs sh@@ ", pay needs to go up massively but years of " we can't afford x% " are now paying off and drivers like me that have left and others that are waiting to go through their class 2 or 1 and get away.
(03 Sep 2022, 8:09 am)James101 There are plenty of jobs with anti-social aspects that don’t struggle to recruit staff. It comes down to the compensation and culture. Being paid a smidge over minimum wage in a toxic workplace probably isn’t worth it.
(03 Sep 2022, 7:36 am)Stanleyone From an ex drivers point of view, I left just over 6 months ago, opting for life as an HGV driver. 10 years I spent at GNE, Crook, CLS and finally Stanley/Consett. I loved the job but the politics of it were ridiculous, the final push to get out came after being "awarded" with a 6 month personal coaching plan (PCP) for hitting the trigger points. These trigger points being off more than 1 week more than once over a year long period. Harsh I thought seeing as those periods of absence were for 1, catching covid 2, Death of a family member and finally 3 a heart condition, but hey trigger points. Add to that the daily abuse recieved from those not happy about the bus infront not running, over 18s not getting the child fare, it all added up. Stressed coming in from work every day/Night.
Since leaving the buses, stress is no more, work/life balance is so much better. Still friends with those on the buses and it's the same talk of " the jobs sh@@ ", pay needs to go up massively but years of " we can't afford x% " are now paying off and drivers like me that have left and others that are waiting to go through their class 2 or 1 and get away.
(03 Sep 2022, 8:09 am)James101 There are plenty of jobs with anti-social aspects that don’t struggle to recruit staff. It comes down to the compensation and culture. Being paid a smidge over minimum wage in a toxic workplace probably isn’t worth it.
Totally agree it's the culture set in place over decades. Quote from an old head when I first started " watch your back, they'll (management) will do everything they can to get rid of you". That was in 2003 during my 1st still at GNE. Left within a year, before the last shortage and influx of polish drivers (nothing against those, still have many polish friends). Returned for my 2nd stint in 2012. Culture still the same, sad thing is most of the 2003 management had gone but those that had replaced them had been Drivers / LDs when I was first there. Culture will never change, sadly.
(02 Sep 2022, 6:31 pm)Aaron21 No 204 will run between 11.32 & 16.32 tomorrowMercifully from 11.32 the 204/204A is now being covered by a Washington driver using 6001 for the next few hours although service is still listed as not running between 14.32 and 16.32 this afternoon.
The first two 81s are cancelled same as the 83
(02 Sep 2022, 6:31 pm)Aaron21 No 204 will run between 11.32 & 16.32 tomorrowMercifully from 11.32 the 204/204A is now being covered by a Washington driver using 6001 for the next few hours although service is still listed as not running between 14.32 and 16.32 this afternoon.
The first two 81s are cancelled same as the 83
(03 Sep 2022, 9:59 am)Rob44 Just looked at cancellations for today... can anyone tell me how to get home when the last FOUR yrs FOUR 28b are cancelled. ????? PISS TAKEIf the last bus not running GNE should pay for a Taxi for you!
(03 Sep 2022, 9:59 am)Rob44 Just looked at cancellations for today... can anyone tell me how to get home when the last FOUR yrs FOUR 28b are cancelled. ????? PISS TAKEIf the last bus not running GNE should pay for a Taxi for you!
My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!
(03 Sep 2022, 11:36 am)Ambassador My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!According to Bus Times there is a 21 at Brandon.
(03 Sep 2022, 11:36 am)Ambassador My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!According to Bus Times there is a 21 at Brandon.
The X12 that would pick the slack up is running full from Birtley to Newcastle
(03 Sep 2022, 11:36 am)Ambassador My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!X21 has been a chaotic mess today, lots of late running, trips cancelled cos of late running and a bit of getting lost, streetdeckfan won't be pleased to hear one missed out part of Woodhouse Close but that's not as bad as one driver being completely flummoxed by Durham:[attachment=10218]
(03 Sep 2022, 11:36 am)Ambassador My congratulations to Riverside ops on making the 21 even more useless on a match day than it normally is. 40 minute gaps already!X21 has been a chaotic mess today, lots of late running, trips cancelled cos of late running and a bit of getting lost, streetdeckfan won't be pleased to hear one missed out part of Woodhouse Close but that's not as bad as one driver being completely flummoxed by Durham:[attachment=10218]
(03 Sep 2022, 1:50 pm)Jimmi X21 has been a chaotic mess today, lots of late running, trips cancelled cos of late running and a bit of getting lost, streetdeckfan won't be pleased to hear one missed out part of Woodhouse Close but that's not as bad as one driver being completely flummoxed by Durham:An X21 missed the entirety of Pity Me.
#2
(03 Sep 2022, 1:50 pm)Jimmi X21 has been a chaotic mess today, lots of late running, trips cancelled cos of late running and a bit of getting lost, streetdeckfan won't be pleased to hear one missed out part of Woodhouse Close but that's not as bad as one driver being completely flummoxed by Durham:An X21 missed the entirety of Pity Me.
#2