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Go North East: Latest News & Discussion - December 2016

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Ambassador



1,851
28 Dec 2016, 9:56 pm #521
(28 Dec 2016, 8:08 pm)Crusader Exactly - there is competition on all routes - the car! Just because only one operator runs a service doesn't mean there is no competition. It's in the operators interest to run a quality service where people want to go, otherwise they'll use a car instead, and operators won't have a business anymore. there's no point having two operators run a service and neither of them carry enough passengers to cover costs

You sort of miss the point with that analogy. The car is competition for one off users. Take a group of friends going from Low Fell to Birtley. Anymore than 2 and a taxi is cheaper, that really shouldn't be the case. Bus companies aren't ever going to beat or try to beat the car in provincial towns and cities.

The vast majority of bus users are not by choice. They don't or cannot drive and they are at the whim and mercy of monopolies, poor timetabling and inflation busting fares.

With all due respect, when the vast majority of forum members get older and begin to rely on public transport at full fares and perhaps live away from flagship routes they'll get out of the enthusiast bubble and realise all operators are no better than any big business, they just lack the customer service and foresight to grow.
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
Ambassador
28 Dec 2016, 9:56 pm #521

(28 Dec 2016, 8:08 pm)Crusader Exactly - there is competition on all routes - the car! Just because only one operator runs a service doesn't mean there is no competition. It's in the operators interest to run a quality service where people want to go, otherwise they'll use a car instead, and operators won't have a business anymore. there's no point having two operators run a service and neither of them carry enough passengers to cover costs

You sort of miss the point with that analogy. The car is competition for one off users. Take a group of friends going from Low Fell to Birtley. Anymore than 2 and a taxi is cheaper, that really shouldn't be the case. Bus companies aren't ever going to beat or try to beat the car in provincial towns and cities.

The vast majority of bus users are not by choice. They don't or cannot drive and they are at the whim and mercy of monopolies, poor timetabling and inflation busting fares.

With all due respect, when the vast majority of forum members get older and begin to rely on public transport at full fares and perhaps live away from flagship routes they'll get out of the enthusiast bubble and realise all operators are no better than any big business, they just lack the customer service and foresight to grow.

Wistfully stuck in the 90s

JP6004



1,833
28 Dec 2016, 10:47 pm #522
(28 Dec 2016, 9:56 pm)Ambassador You sort of miss the point with that analogy. The car is competition for one off users. Take a group of friends going from Low Fell to Birtley. Anymore than 2 and a taxi is cheaper, that really shouldn't be the case. Bus companies aren't ever going to beat or try to beat the car in provincial towns and cities.

The vast majority of bus users are not by choice. They don't or cannot drive and they are at the whim and mercy of monopolies, poor timetabling and inflation busting fares.

With all due respect, when the vast majority of forum members get older and begin to rely on public transport at full fares and perhaps live away from flagship routes they'll get out of the enthusiast bubble and realise all operators are no better than any big business, they just lack the customer service and foresight to grow.

Yes taxi is cheaper for 1 trip or a short distance yet pay £5 for day ticket and you can travel to town metrocentre Washington Blaydon. You can rack up to 10x the miles you can in a taxi for same amount.

Also in regard inflation busting fares. Nexus is the worst offender. If you live in Washington and work in newcastle, you have to pay almost double the price per month for a Network One compared to a buzzfare.
Nexus force it's Network One users to pay for metro and ferry even though they might not use it.
Least with month tickets/ route savers from GNE you only pay for the services in your area
JP6004
28 Dec 2016, 10:47 pm #522

(28 Dec 2016, 9:56 pm)Ambassador You sort of miss the point with that analogy. The car is competition for one off users. Take a group of friends going from Low Fell to Birtley. Anymore than 2 and a taxi is cheaper, that really shouldn't be the case. Bus companies aren't ever going to beat or try to beat the car in provincial towns and cities.

The vast majority of bus users are not by choice. They don't or cannot drive and they are at the whim and mercy of monopolies, poor timetabling and inflation busting fares.

With all due respect, when the vast majority of forum members get older and begin to rely on public transport at full fares and perhaps live away from flagship routes they'll get out of the enthusiast bubble and realise all operators are no better than any big business, they just lack the customer service and foresight to grow.

Yes taxi is cheaper for 1 trip or a short distance yet pay £5 for day ticket and you can travel to town metrocentre Washington Blaydon. You can rack up to 10x the miles you can in a taxi for same amount.

Also in regard inflation busting fares. Nexus is the worst offender. If you live in Washington and work in newcastle, you have to pay almost double the price per month for a Network One compared to a buzzfare.
Nexus force it's Network One users to pay for metro and ferry even though they might not use it.
Least with month tickets/ route savers from GNE you only pay for the services in your area

Greg in Weardale



352
28 Dec 2016, 10:54 pm #523
It also doesn't help any of the bus companies that local authorities in this area are rubbish regarding bus priority schemes. Can there be another bus station in the country that it is as difficult to get into as Eldon Square? Look at the ludicrous chicane and uncontrolled pedestrian crossing on Newgate Street. No Car lanes rather than Bus Only lanes. And so on.
Edited 28 Dec 2016, 10:55 pm by Greg in Weardale.
Greg in Weardale
28 Dec 2016, 10:54 pm #523

It also doesn't help any of the bus companies that local authorities in this area are rubbish regarding bus priority schemes. Can there be another bus station in the country that it is as difficult to get into as Eldon Square? Look at the ludicrous chicane and uncontrolled pedestrian crossing on Newgate Street. No Car lanes rather than Bus Only lanes. And so on.

JP6004



1,833
28 Dec 2016, 11:00 pm #524
(28 Dec 2016, 10:54 pm)Greg in Weardale It also doesn't help any of the bus companies that local authorities in this area are rubbish regarding bus priority schemes. Can there be another bus station in the country that it is as difficult to get into as Eldon Square? Look at the ludicrous chicane and uncontrolled pedestrian crossing on Newgate Street. No Car lanes rather than Bus Only lanes. And so on.

Agreed I think they should of had a one way system from haymarket to eldon square station and move that stupid car park. Would of allowed the traffic to flow a lot easier.

Newgate is terrible road, specially on evenings when everyone is drunk and can't see a bus tootling along.

A lot of the congestion though is taxis who park at bus stops and clog up every available bit of space on city centre bus routes
JP6004
28 Dec 2016, 11:00 pm #524

(28 Dec 2016, 10:54 pm)Greg in Weardale It also doesn't help any of the bus companies that local authorities in this area are rubbish regarding bus priority schemes. Can there be another bus station in the country that it is as difficult to get into as Eldon Square? Look at the ludicrous chicane and uncontrolled pedestrian crossing on Newgate Street. No Car lanes rather than Bus Only lanes. And so on.

Agreed I think they should of had a one way system from haymarket to eldon square station and move that stupid car park. Would of allowed the traffic to flow a lot easier.

Newgate is terrible road, specially on evenings when everyone is drunk and can't see a bus tootling along.

A lot of the congestion though is taxis who park at bus stops and clog up every available bit of space on city centre bus routes

Michael



19,160
28 Dec 2016, 11:01 pm #525
(28 Dec 2016, 9:56 pm)Ambassador With all due respect, when the vast majority of forum members get older and begin to rely on public transport at full fares and perhaps live away from flagship routes they'll get out of the enthusiast bubble and realise all operators are no better than any big business

Ye, luckily i live/work in Sunderland so i buy the smartzone pass, which is £13.50 as i use both Stagecoach and Go North East to and from work, £13.50 is worth it.

When i was studying at Newcastle College, i had a Network one pass and that would cost me, £220 for a term pass, which was well worth it.

I'm glad i don't work else where in the NE as the price would shoot up.

Maybe people will use the new X24 when it starts, as it'll be cheaper than GNE and the Metro haha

Edit:

I agree on Eldon Square, it's one the worst bus stations built, the roads in Newcastle are a mess.
Edited 28 Dec 2016, 11:05 pm by Michael.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
Michael
28 Dec 2016, 11:01 pm #525

(28 Dec 2016, 9:56 pm)Ambassador With all due respect, when the vast majority of forum members get older and begin to rely on public transport at full fares and perhaps live away from flagship routes they'll get out of the enthusiast bubble and realise all operators are no better than any big business

Ye, luckily i live/work in Sunderland so i buy the smartzone pass, which is £13.50 as i use both Stagecoach and Go North East to and from work, £13.50 is worth it.

When i was studying at Newcastle College, i had a Network one pass and that would cost me, £220 for a term pass, which was well worth it.

I'm glad i don't work else where in the NE as the price would shoot up.

Maybe people will use the new X24 when it starts, as it'll be cheaper than GNE and the Metro haha

Edit:

I agree on Eldon Square, it's one the worst bus stations built, the roads in Newcastle are a mess.

Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.

Andreos1



14,202
29 Dec 2016, 12:49 am #526
(28 Dec 2016, 7:32 pm)JP6004 Well you don't run a business to make a loss.

If you spend more on fuel tax wages maintenance than the service generates, you cannot sustain the service. If GNE continued to operate non profitable services, then they would no longer be in business.

So when manufacturers and supermarkets run loss-leaders that's for what reasons? 

When a model is built around the hub and spoke, there will be elements of the model stronger than others. The way the land lies, housing and employment mean that is a guaranteed certainty.
What you can't do is remove the spokes or reduce when the spokes are in place, cos ultimately it's gonna impact on the stronger spokes and their profits. 

The 21 can only work to its potential when you have the likes of the 13, 14, 15, 28, 34 and 36 (all serving places that had regular services to Newcastle) working to their potential too. Without them (even if they don't make a profit), the 21 doesn't achieve anything like it does.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
29 Dec 2016, 12:49 am #526

(28 Dec 2016, 7:32 pm)JP6004 Well you don't run a business to make a loss.

If you spend more on fuel tax wages maintenance than the service generates, you cannot sustain the service. If GNE continued to operate non profitable services, then they would no longer be in business.

So when manufacturers and supermarkets run loss-leaders that's for what reasons? 

When a model is built around the hub and spoke, there will be elements of the model stronger than others. The way the land lies, housing and employment mean that is a guaranteed certainty.
What you can't do is remove the spokes or reduce when the spokes are in place, cos ultimately it's gonna impact on the stronger spokes and their profits. 

The 21 can only work to its potential when you have the likes of the 13, 14, 15, 28, 34 and 36 (all serving places that had regular services to Newcastle) working to their potential too. Without them (even if they don't make a profit), the 21 doesn't achieve anything like it does.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Dan

Website
Site Administrator

18,114
29 Dec 2016, 7:12 am #527
(29 Dec 2016, 12:49 am)Andreos1 So when manufacturers and supermarkets run loss-leaders that's for what reasons? 

When a model is built around the hub and spoke, there will be elements of the model stronger than others. The way the land lies, housing and employment mean that is a guaranteed certainty.
What you can't do is remove the spokes or reduce when the spokes are in place, cos ultimately it's gonna impact on the stronger spokes and their profits. 

The 21 can only work to its potential when you have the likes of the 13, 14, 15, 28, 34 and 36 (all serving places that had regular services to Newcastle) working to their potential too. Without them (even if they don't make a profit), the 21 doesn't achieve anything like it does.

Thankfully bus operators now have smart ticket machines allowing them to analyse the network, find out passenger trends, and work out whether running those feeder services can be justified or not - even if they are making little to no money.

If, in your example, it would have such a detrimental effect on service 21, those feeder services wouldn't be withdrawn.

When you pair that with a customer survey requesting feedback on your proposed route changes, you get a pretty good idea on if it's worth doing something before you proceed.

To go back to the original post - if that's not strategy and planning, I don't know what is. I'm speaking very generally here as it applies to all three of the main operators in the North East: they all employ the same techniques (albeit with minor differences) when making revisions to their network.
Dan
29 Dec 2016, 7:12 am #527

(29 Dec 2016, 12:49 am)Andreos1 So when manufacturers and supermarkets run loss-leaders that's for what reasons? 

When a model is built around the hub and spoke, there will be elements of the model stronger than others. The way the land lies, housing and employment mean that is a guaranteed certainty.
What you can't do is remove the spokes or reduce when the spokes are in place, cos ultimately it's gonna impact on the stronger spokes and their profits. 

The 21 can only work to its potential when you have the likes of the 13, 14, 15, 28, 34 and 36 (all serving places that had regular services to Newcastle) working to their potential too. Without them (even if they don't make a profit), the 21 doesn't achieve anything like it does.

Thankfully bus operators now have smart ticket machines allowing them to analyse the network, find out passenger trends, and work out whether running those feeder services can be justified or not - even if they are making little to no money.

If, in your example, it would have such a detrimental effect on service 21, those feeder services wouldn't be withdrawn.

When you pair that with a customer survey requesting feedback on your proposed route changes, you get a pretty good idea on if it's worth doing something before you proceed.

To go back to the original post - if that's not strategy and planning, I don't know what is. I'm speaking very generally here as it applies to all three of the main operators in the North East: they all employ the same techniques (albeit with minor differences) when making revisions to their network.

eezypeazy



173
29 Dec 2016, 10:23 am #528
Dan,

You should have learned by now never to respond to Andreos' posts... he's always right, and everyone else is always wrong!

Happy New Year to one and all!
eezypeazy
29 Dec 2016, 10:23 am #528

Dan,

You should have learned by now never to respond to Andreos' posts... he's always right, and everyone else is always wrong!

Happy New Year to one and all!

Andreos1



14,202
29 Dec 2016, 10:43 am #529
(29 Dec 2016, 10:23 am)eezypeazy Dan,

You should have learned by now never to respond to Andreos' posts... he's always right, and everyone else is always wrong!

Happy New Year to one and all!

Now now eezypeazy. Bit personal for what is meant to be a joyous, festive time of the year isn't it? Bit of a sweeping statement too... 

If you could clarify what I said that was wrong and put me right, that would be fantastic for us all.

If we were to put a different slant on it, we could look at the 10 from Hexham. Lots of the Solo services are obviously designed to feed in to the bigger network and we have seen lots of complaints from residents and councillors about how they struggle to get in to the town using public transport since tweaks were made to the network. Imagine if a councillor was to have the sort of attitude towards their constituents, who have voiced an opinion about the bus network, similar to the attitude shown by yourself on this forum?
Edited 29 Dec 2016, 10:53 am by Andreos1.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
29 Dec 2016, 10:43 am #529

(29 Dec 2016, 10:23 am)eezypeazy Dan,

You should have learned by now never to respond to Andreos' posts... he's always right, and everyone else is always wrong!

Happy New Year to one and all!

Now now eezypeazy. Bit personal for what is meant to be a joyous, festive time of the year isn't it? Bit of a sweeping statement too... 

If you could clarify what I said that was wrong and put me right, that would be fantastic for us all.

If we were to put a different slant on it, we could look at the 10 from Hexham. Lots of the Solo services are obviously designed to feed in to the bigger network and we have seen lots of complaints from residents and councillors about how they struggle to get in to the town using public transport since tweaks were made to the network. Imagine if a councillor was to have the sort of attitude towards their constituents, who have voiced an opinion about the bus network, similar to the attitude shown by yourself on this forum?

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

eezypeazy



173
29 Dec 2016, 11:19 am #530
Usual sweeping statements from Andreos without evidence...

Glad to see you're still following me, though!
eezypeazy
29 Dec 2016, 11:19 am #530

Usual sweeping statements from Andreos without evidence...

Glad to see you're still following me, though!

Andreos1



14,202
29 Dec 2016, 11:34 am #531
(29 Dec 2016, 11:19 am)eezypeazy Usual sweeping statements from Andreos without evidence...

Glad to see you're still following me, though!

I would copy and paste a link from the Hexham Courant, but the site isn't letting me paste it.
Just from earlier this year, there are quotes from a councillor in Hexham who isn't happy at the withdrawal of runs on the 682.
Despite requests to open communication with the operator, it appears his attempts were fruitless. 
Speaking personally, I'm not too keen on the response from the operator representative either mind...

I am guessing that is what you mean when you state that there is a usual sweeping statement without evidence. It was a pretty vague response you provided. Hopefully this clarifies things for you?

You're going to have to clarify the 'following' line. Slightly worrying that you are being followed mind...
Edited 29 Dec 2016, 11:35 am by Andreos1.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
29 Dec 2016, 11:34 am #531

(29 Dec 2016, 11:19 am)eezypeazy Usual sweeping statements from Andreos without evidence...

Glad to see you're still following me, though!

I would copy and paste a link from the Hexham Courant, but the site isn't letting me paste it.
Just from earlier this year, there are quotes from a councillor in Hexham who isn't happy at the withdrawal of runs on the 682.
Despite requests to open communication with the operator, it appears his attempts were fruitless. 
Speaking personally, I'm not too keen on the response from the operator representative either mind...

I am guessing that is what you mean when you state that there is a usual sweeping statement without evidence. It was a pretty vague response you provided. Hopefully this clarifies things for you?

You're going to have to clarify the 'following' line. Slightly worrying that you are being followed mind...

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

V514DFT



2,237
29 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm #532
Still no announcements on indigo north tyne
V514DFT
29 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm #532

Still no announcements on indigo north tyne

Tom

Website


6,138
29 Dec 2016, 2:05 pm #533
(29 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm)V514DFT Still no announcements on indigo north tyne

Yeah I had one working on the 42, but nothing since. The ones on the 40 said 42 to Wallsend as opposed to 40 to Wallsend too.
Tom
29 Dec 2016, 2:05 pm #533

(29 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm)V514DFT Still no announcements on indigo north tyne

Yeah I had one working on the 42, but nothing since. The ones on the 40 said 42 to Wallsend as opposed to 40 to Wallsend too.

Dan

Website
Site Administrator

18,114
29 Dec 2016, 4:34 pm #534
(29 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm)V514DFT Still no announcements on indigo north tyne

Ok, thanks.

Going forward, could you please Private Message me with any faults? That, or contact Go North East through the appropriate channels (ie via Customer Services)?

I'm off work until the middle of January so can't investigate until then but I don't think this constitutes as latest news.
Dan
29 Dec 2016, 4:34 pm #534

(29 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm)V514DFT Still no announcements on indigo north tyne

Ok, thanks.

Going forward, could you please Private Message me with any faults? That, or contact Go North East through the appropriate channels (ie via Customer Services)?

I'm off work until the middle of January so can't investigate until then but I don't think this constitutes as latest news.

S813 FVK



6,030
29 Dec 2016, 5:03 pm #535
6144 branded:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nebp2/3184...ateposted/

I would have liked it if they had replaced the old logo on the front with the new one as used on the rest of the branding but other than that, it looks really good.
Edited 29 Dec 2016, 5:04 pm by S813 FVK.
S813 FVK
29 Dec 2016, 5:03 pm #535

6144 branded:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nebp2/3184...ateposted/

I would have liked it if they had replaced the old logo on the front with the new one as used on the rest of the branding but other than that, it looks really good.

Adrian

Website


9,583
29 Dec 2016, 5:04 pm #536
(29 Dec 2016, 5:03 pm)S813 FVK 6144 branded:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nebp2/3184...ateposted/

Looks decent.

New logo below the cab window, and old logo on the front. Mix and match? Smile
Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook
Adrian
29 Dec 2016, 5:04 pm #536

(29 Dec 2016, 5:03 pm)S813 FVK 6144 branded:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nebp2/3184...ateposted/

Looks decent.

New logo below the cab window, and old logo on the front. Mix and match? Smile

Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook

big mac



430
30 Dec 2016, 12:02 pm #537
I was wondering the reasoning behind GNE's decision to operate a Saturday service on 27th December but a Sunday service on 2nd January when both are public holidays?   Would there be a massive difference in demand on both days?
Edited 30 Dec 2016, 12:03 pm by big mac.
big mac
30 Dec 2016, 12:02 pm #537

I was wondering the reasoning behind GNE's decision to operate a Saturday service on 27th December but a Sunday service on 2nd January when both are public holidays?   Would there be a massive difference in demand on both days?

NK53 TKT

Website


2,441
30 Dec 2016, 12:08 pm #538
(29 Dec 2016, 4:34 pm)Dan Ok, thanks.

Going forward, could you please Private Message me with any faults? That, or contact Go North East through the appropriate channels (ie via Customer Services)?

I'm off work until the middle of January so can't investigate until then but I don't think this constitutes as latest news.

Well the Q3 only works on 5389, 5390 and 8313
NK53 TKT
30 Dec 2016, 12:08 pm #538

(29 Dec 2016, 4:34 pm)Dan Ok, thanks.

Going forward, could you please Private Message me with any faults? That, or contact Go North East through the appropriate channels (ie via Customer Services)?

I'm off work until the middle of January so can't investigate until then but I don't think this constitutes as latest news.

Well the Q3 only works on 5389, 5390 and 8313

Dan

Website
Site Administrator

18,114
30 Dec 2016, 12:10 pm #539
(30 Dec 2016, 12:08 pm)NK53 TKT Well the Q3 only works on 5389, 5390 and 8313

Can I reiterate what I said in my previous post..?

This forum shouldn't be used to log faults. General discussion on Next Stop Announcements and other new technology on buses, yes. Individual faults / feedback, no. If you wish to do the latter, send me a Private Message.
Dan
30 Dec 2016, 12:10 pm #539

(30 Dec 2016, 12:08 pm)NK53 TKT Well the Q3 only works on 5389, 5390 and 8313

Can I reiterate what I said in my previous post..?

This forum shouldn't be used to log faults. General discussion on Next Stop Announcements and other new technology on buses, yes. Individual faults / feedback, no. If you wish to do the latter, send me a Private Message.

S813 FVK



6,030
30 Dec 2016, 2:10 pm #540
3887 has had its 'Northern' fleet names removed. I imagine 3889 will have too.

6137 (or 27 - definitely looked like a 7 at the end) also looks to have been partially repainted into the new corporate livery too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
S813 FVK
30 Dec 2016, 2:10 pm #540

3887 has had its 'Northern' fleet names removed. I imagine 3889 will have too.

6137 (or 27 - definitely looked like a 7 at the end) also looks to have been partially repainted into the new corporate livery too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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