Max Brand
Max Brand
(25 Feb 2021, 4:46 pm)omnicity4659 Yes, when done properly, it does. Arriva recorded growth on their Northumbria Sapphire and Max services after every upgrade.If Arriva were willing to put the time & money in, the MAX brand could be as good as GoNE's X-Lines.
Branding raises awareness to the route existing, a physical object driving past someone is one of the best forms of advertising, ultimately keeping you in a job.
(25 Feb 2021, 4:46 pm)omnicity4659 Yes, when done properly, it does. Arriva recorded growth on their Northumbria Sapphire and Max services after every upgrade.If Arriva were willing to put the time & money in, the MAX brand could be as good as GoNE's X-Lines.
Branding raises awareness to the route existing, a physical object driving past someone is one of the best forms of advertising, ultimately keeping you in a job.
(25 Feb 2021, 6:20 pm)L469 YVK If Arriva were willing to put the time & money in, the MAX brand could be as good as GoNE's X-Lines.Same with Sapphire, but Arriva will be Arriva.
(25 Feb 2021, 6:20 pm)L469 YVK If Arriva were willing to put the time & money in, the MAX brand could be as good as GoNE's X-Lines.Same with Sapphire, but Arriva will be Arriva.
(25 Feb 2021, 10:21 am)mb134 Sapphire wise, again I don't see why the Jesmond 43/44/45 were converted really. I can't actually remember when the brand went from feeling reasonably premium, with the launch of the 7 and then X21/22, to very diluted as it happened so quickly. 2014-6 Arriva must have found a good deal with a paint supplier.
(25 Feb 2021, 10:21 am)mb134 Sapphire wise, again I don't see why the Jesmond 43/44/45 were converted really. I can't actually remember when the brand went from feeling reasonably premium, with the launch of the 7 and then X21/22, to very diluted as it happened so quickly. 2014-6 Arriva must have found a good deal with a paint supplier.
(25 Feb 2021, 10:21 am)mb134 Sapphire wise, again I don't see why the Jesmond 43/44/45 were converted really. I can't actually remember when the brand went from feeling reasonably premium, with the launch of the 7 and then X21/22, to very diluted as it happened so quickly. 2014-6 Arriva must have found a good deal with a paint supplier.
(25 Feb 2021, 9:10 pm)IRHardy The only reason that Jesmond's 43/44/45 were converted to become Sapphire routes was that Arriva needed to put the Sapphire ex X21 & X22 E400s (that had been replaced by the new E400MMCs) somewhere.
By making the 43/44/45 Sapphire routes all Arriva needed to do was peel off the X21 & X22 branding and the buses would be ready for use, if the buses needed to de-Sapphiring, that would have taken time and cost money, which Arriva did not think was worth doing.
(25 Feb 2021, 10:21 am)mb134 Sapphire wise, again I don't see why the Jesmond 43/44/45 were converted really. I can't actually remember when the brand went from feeling reasonably premium, with the launch of the 7 and then X21/22, to very diluted as it happened so quickly. 2014-6 Arriva must have found a good deal with a paint supplier.
(25 Feb 2021, 9:10 pm)IRHardy The only reason that Jesmond's 43/44/45 were converted to become Sapphire routes was that Arriva needed to put the Sapphire ex X21 & X22 E400s (that had been replaced by the new E400MMCs) somewhere.
By making the 43/44/45 Sapphire routes all Arriva needed to do was peel off the X21 & X22 branding and the buses would be ready for use, if the buses needed to de-Sapphiring, that would have taken time and cost money, which Arriva did not think was worth doing.
(25 Feb 2021, 4:46 pm)omnicity4659 Yes, when done properly, it does. Arriva recorded growth on their Northumbria Sapphire and Max services after every upgrade.I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.
Branding raises awareness to the route existing, a physical object driving past someone is one of the best forms of advertising, ultimately keeping you in a job.
(25 Feb 2021, 4:46 pm)omnicity4659 Yes, when done properly, it does. Arriva recorded growth on their Northumbria Sapphire and Max services after every upgrade.I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.
Branding raises awareness to the route existing, a physical object driving past someone is one of the best forms of advertising, ultimately keeping you in a job.
(26 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm)Driver9*** I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.That's part of it. But the experience onboard is also another part of the equation.
(26 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm)Driver9*** I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.That's part of it. But the experience onboard is also another part of the equation.
(26 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm)Driver9*** I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.
(26 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm)Driver9*** I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.
(26 Feb 2021, 9:50 pm)James101 The drivers of the thousands of duties, buses and services that have been permanently withdrawn all turned up for work every day until they were out of a job. Commercial efforts to boost passenger new numbers could save jobs.I've worked for Arriva a long long time and in that time not one driver has ever been made redundant. But if they did offer it because of covid I'd be at the front of the queue to volunteer for it.
(26 Feb 2021, 9:50 pm)James101 The drivers of the thousands of duties, buses and services that have been permanently withdrawn all turned up for work every day until they were out of a job. Commercial efforts to boost passenger new numbers could save jobs.I've worked for Arriva a long long time and in that time not one driver has ever been made redundant. But if they did offer it because of covid I'd be at the front of the queue to volunteer for it.
(26 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm)Driver9*** I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.
(26 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm)Driver9*** I keep myself in a job by turning up to work every day, not because the bus is painted a certain colour.
(26 Feb 2021, 10:01 pm)Driver9*** I've worked for Arriva a long long time and in that time not one driver has ever been made redundant. But if they did offer it because of covid I'd be at the front of the queue to volunteer for it.
(26 Feb 2021, 10:01 pm)Driver9*** I've worked for Arriva a long long time and in that time not one driver has ever been made redundant. But if they did offer it because of covid I'd be at the front of the queue to volunteer for it.
(28 Feb 2021, 12:36 am)James101 That may be so, but may be no consolation to drivers whose depots have been closed and their job moved to a location unworkable for their circumstances so they’ve been pushed out. Arriva have closed Bishop, Peterlee, Richmond & Loftus in living memory and in other Op-Cos, say Midlands, Stafford closed a couple of years ago and the remaining operation in Cannock (a former HQ no less) has only just been taken over by D&G who are thinning out services and driver duties permanently at a pace. I hope all bus industry workers enjoy job security but the reality is it’s a diminishing industry. The beacon of hope for hospitality after the pandemic is that it’s clear people are generally gasping to get back out into pubs & restaurants. Recovery for bus travel, now that customers have had a year of getting used to travelling, working and shopping in a different way, is less clear.
(28 Feb 2021, 12:36 am)James101 That may be so, but may be no consolation to drivers whose depots have been closed and their job moved to a location unworkable for their circumstances so they’ve been pushed out. Arriva have closed Bishop, Peterlee, Richmond & Loftus in living memory and in other Op-Cos, say Midlands, Stafford closed a couple of years ago and the remaining operation in Cannock (a former HQ no less) has only just been taken over by D&G who are thinning out services and driver duties permanently at a pace. I hope all bus industry workers enjoy job security but the reality is it’s a diminishing industry. The beacon of hope for hospitality after the pandemic is that it’s clear people are generally gasping to get back out into pubs & restaurants. Recovery for bus travel, now that customers have had a year of getting used to travelling, working and shopping in a different way, is less clear.
(28 Feb 2021, 9:30 am)Andreos1 I don't know how many times I've said it now (and I'll continue to say it), but operators just haven't adapted to changes in customer habits.For Ashington, I'd say
They cut services due to changes to passenger habits (or trot out the line), but across the country we see the same old types of services seen 20/30/40 years ago.
Shields was mentioned a while back and SNE continuing to work the estate - town centre services, despite the town centre dying on its arse and people going elsewhere (either for work or pleasure).
There's mention of the threat ANE would have if the B&T line reopened (yet very little about how they could adapt to compliment the line).
GNE constantly witter on about traffic in and around Gateshead, but don't do anything to open up new corridors so that some car users have the option of using public transport.
The network in central Gateshead hasn't evolved since the interchange opened more than 40 years ago and the only changes in West Gateshead seemed to occur back in 86 when the Metrocentre opened.
Liveries and on-board features are only part of the solution imo.
(28 Feb 2021, 9:30 am)Andreos1 I don't know how many times I've said it now (and I'll continue to say it), but operators just haven't adapted to changes in customer habits.For Ashington, I'd say
They cut services due to changes to passenger habits (or trot out the line), but across the country we see the same old types of services seen 20/30/40 years ago.
Shields was mentioned a while back and SNE continuing to work the estate - town centre services, despite the town centre dying on its arse and people going elsewhere (either for work or pleasure).
There's mention of the threat ANE would have if the B&T line reopened (yet very little about how they could adapt to compliment the line).
GNE constantly witter on about traffic in and around Gateshead, but don't do anything to open up new corridors so that some car users have the option of using public transport.
The network in central Gateshead hasn't evolved since the interchange opened more than 40 years ago and the only changes in West Gateshead seemed to occur back in 86 when the Metrocentre opened.
Liveries and on-board features are only part of the solution imo.
(28 Feb 2021, 9:30 am)Andreos1 I don't know how many times I've said it now (and I'll continue to say it), but operators just haven't adapted to changes in customer habits.
They cut services due to changes to passenger habits (or trot out the line), but across the country we see the same old types of services seen 20/30/40 years ago.
Shields was mentioned a while back and SNE continuing to work the estate - town centre services, despite the town centre dying on its arse and people going elsewhere (either for work or pleasure).
There's mention of the threat ANE would have if the B&T line reopened (yet very little about how they could adapt to compliment the line).
GNE constantly witter on about traffic in and around Gateshead, but don't do anything to open up new corridors so that some car users have the option of using public transport.
The network in central Gateshead hasn't evolved since the interchange opened more than 40 years ago and the only changes in West Gateshead seemed to occur back in 86 when the Metrocentre opened.
Liveries and on-board features are only part of the solution imo.
If you look at the hospitality trade now versus 10 - 20 years ago, it has adapted massively. Interior updates or changes to branding are just part of the adaptations. The core ingredients and options for customers a major part.
The innovators thrive and survive. The big chains stumble along, cutting venues to survive...
If a restaurant serve up the exact same menu as they did 30 years ago, they're asking for trouble. Yet operators continue to do just that...
(28 Feb 2021, 9:30 am)Andreos1 I don't know how many times I've said it now (and I'll continue to say it), but operators just haven't adapted to changes in customer habits.
They cut services due to changes to passenger habits (or trot out the line), but across the country we see the same old types of services seen 20/30/40 years ago.
Shields was mentioned a while back and SNE continuing to work the estate - town centre services, despite the town centre dying on its arse and people going elsewhere (either for work or pleasure).
There's mention of the threat ANE would have if the B&T line reopened (yet very little about how they could adapt to compliment the line).
GNE constantly witter on about traffic in and around Gateshead, but don't do anything to open up new corridors so that some car users have the option of using public transport.
The network in central Gateshead hasn't evolved since the interchange opened more than 40 years ago and the only changes in West Gateshead seemed to occur back in 86 when the Metrocentre opened.
Liveries and on-board features are only part of the solution imo.
If you look at the hospitality trade now versus 10 - 20 years ago, it has adapted massively. Interior updates or changes to branding are just part of the adaptations. The core ingredients and options for customers a major part.
The innovators thrive and survive. The big chains stumble along, cutting venues to survive...
If a restaurant serve up the exact same menu as they did 30 years ago, they're asking for trouble. Yet operators continue to do just that...
(28 Feb 2021, 2:50 pm)streetdeckfan Christ, are you feeling alright? Admitting that they are 'part' of the solution must have took some real courage
GNE are starting to adapt to changing customer demands, with a number of services being adapted to serve retail parks, X21 to Tindale, 21 to Arnison, 10B to Tyne View. While I don't know what they're planning, I do get the feeling that had COVID not buggered things up we would have seen even more changes
(28 Feb 2021, 2:50 pm)streetdeckfan Christ, are you feeling alright? Admitting that they are 'part' of the solution must have took some real courage
GNE are starting to adapt to changing customer demands, with a number of services being adapted to serve retail parks, X21 to Tindale, 21 to Arnison, 10B to Tyne View. While I don't know what they're planning, I do get the feeling that had COVID not buggered things up we would have seen even more changes
I think Arriva should have one or the other Max or Sapphire brands, but look after them properly.
For example, they have Sapphire vehicles running on the X3/X4 that still have out of date internal marketing from when the buses were introduced. The plug sockets never work. The next stop display screens often dont work. The next stop announcements can have different names for the same bus stop depending on which bus you get.
The industry is going to face difficult times ahead as we come out of the pandemic, and I fear more cuts will be coming. Good quality branding and on-board features can only do so much, but at least these have been proven to increase passenger numbers when done well.
Arriva are just very half-hearted, lethargic and risk averse at the best of times, sadly.
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I think the major issue here is the 'decline' seen since the money tap was turned off at the very top, ie Deutsche Bahn and the ongoing saga of attempting to sell/float (don't know what the current situation is!) the Arriva group across Europe. Until this is concluded the investment is seemingly not happening and with an ageing fleet, poor reliability looms and more cuts seem to be the only way to solve it at present. If DB can find a buyer (at a price they want, which seems to be the sticking point) then you may see fresh ideas and money to spend but until that time, I personally wonder what the future holds. I hope I'm wrong but I see death by a thousand cuts coming.
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(03 Mar 2021, 12:26 pm)tyresmoke I think the major issue here is the 'decline' seen since the money tap was turned off at the very top, ie Deutsche Bahn and the ongoing saga of attempting to sell/float (don't know what the current situation is!) the Arriva group across Europe. Until this is concluded the investment is seemingly not happening and with an ageing fleet, poor reliability looms and more cuts seem to be the only way to solve it at present. If DB can find a buyer (at a price they want, which seems to be the sticking point) then you may see fresh ideas and money to spend but until that time, I personally wonder what the future holds. I hope I'm wrong but I see death by a thousand cuts coming.I think short term, there will no doubt be cuts to the major trunk service frequencies out of Blyth & Ashington.
(03 Mar 2021, 12:26 pm)tyresmoke I think the major issue here is the 'decline' seen since the money tap was turned off at the very top, ie Deutsche Bahn and the ongoing saga of attempting to sell/float (don't know what the current situation is!) the Arriva group across Europe. Until this is concluded the investment is seemingly not happening and with an ageing fleet, poor reliability looms and more cuts seem to be the only way to solve it at present. If DB can find a buyer (at a price they want, which seems to be the sticking point) then you may see fresh ideas and money to spend but until that time, I personally wonder what the future holds. I hope I'm wrong but I see death by a thousand cuts coming.I think short term, there will no doubt be cuts to the major trunk service frequencies out of Blyth & Ashington.
This is what happens when DB purchased Arriva, all profits are used to upgrade and maintain their own transport infrastructure in there own country,and to maintain the UK bus side there asking for handouts from the UK government, this is what happened when the government stripped them from northern rail , it’s ashame the uk government could do the same to there buses in the UK, DB asking to much for the bus side and only selling as a job lot and not individually, since there realised there couldn’t sell as a job lot then there turned to floating it on the stock market.
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(03 Mar 2021, 5:32 pm)L469 YVK I think short term, there will no doubt be cuts to the major trunk service frequencies out of Blyth & Ashington.
Longer term if sold in units, I'd love to see GNE take the Ashington operations on.
Transdev would also be good for Redcar & Whitby.
(03 Mar 2021, 5:32 pm)L469 YVK I think short term, there will no doubt be cuts to the major trunk service frequencies out of Blyth & Ashington.
Longer term if sold in units, I'd love to see GNE take the Ashington operations on.
Transdev would also be good for Redcar & Whitby.
(04 Mar 2021, 9:25 am)tvd I'd like to see any of the operators try the odd new route and challenge another company's area maybe.
Once things reopen, people will looking to make the most of the summer and have trips out to the coast. Arriva could consider extending from Scarborough to the holiday camps, Filey and Bridlington as a limited summer service. Scarborough & District now part of Go North East could try competing, have the odd run through to Whitby/Middlesbrough, connect with their X9/X10 and promote some day returns.
I suspect not much will happen, but if I was in charge I'd at least be considering any numbers of ideas that get people back to using buses, or attract new customers. The decline in the industry may be inevitable, but I think without trying new things - which could be ticket offers, not just new routes - the decline is pretty much certain to continue.
(04 Mar 2021, 9:25 am)tvd I'd like to see any of the operators try the odd new route and challenge another company's area maybe.
Once things reopen, people will looking to make the most of the summer and have trips out to the coast. Arriva could consider extending from Scarborough to the holiday camps, Filey and Bridlington as a limited summer service. Scarborough & District now part of Go North East could try competing, have the odd run through to Whitby/Middlesbrough, connect with their X9/X10 and promote some day returns.
I suspect not much will happen, but if I was in charge I'd at least be considering any numbers of ideas that get people back to using buses, or attract new customers. The decline in the industry may be inevitable, but I think without trying new things - which could be ticket offers, not just new routes - the decline is pretty much certain to continue.