Durham county council have already changed the timetable information at bus stops in Peterlee.

Sunderland interchange had new Arriva timetables for 22,23 and 21/21A,X21.

I picked up the new 61/62 timetable in Durham Bus Station this afternoon and it says that they are both supported by Durham County Council.

No other timetables in Durham Bus Station.

At present service 24 leaves Peterlee Pennine drive at 08:21 and gets into Sunderland at 09:06. Next week service 21/X21 leaves Peterlee Pennine drive at 08:21 and gets into Sunderland at 09:08. 2 minutes later by the timetable. Even though passengers will have 9 minute sit at Peterlee bus station twiddling their thumbs.

(21 Oct 2014, 5:46 pm)cbma06 wrote At present service 24 leaves Peterlee Pennine drive at 08:21 and gets into Sunderland at 09:06.  Next week service 21/X21 leaves Peterlee Pennine drive at 08:21 and gets into Sunderland at 09:08. 2 minutes later by the timetable. Even though passengers will have 9 minute sit at Peterlee bus station twiddling their thumbs.

At present however, what time does that Service 24 actually arrive in Sunderland?

(21 Oct 2014, 7:08 pm)RobinHood wrote At present however, what time does that Service 24 actually arrive in Sunderland?

Any time between on-time and 15 minutes late - more often late than on-time, from my experience.

(21 Oct 2014, 7:08 pm)RobinHood wrote At present however, what time does that Service 24 actually arrive in Sunderland?

I was going by what was stated in the official timetable itself.

(21 Oct 2014, 7:08 pm)Dan wrote Any time between on-time and 15 minutes late - more often late than on-time, from my experience.

I was on that particular bus this morning, it was only running abit late because of the schools, on school holidays the service is on time.

(21 Oct 2014, 7:17 pm)cbma06 wrote I was on that particular bus this morning, it was only running abit late because of the schools, on school holidays the service is on time.

I think the waiting time in Peterlee will help reliability though, and providing the timings have been planned realistically, they should be arriving into Park Lane on time rather than a few mins late.

Probably little to no difference in the journey times in reality.

So, they are reckoning on 26 mins from Peterlee Bus Station to Park Lane. I drove it on Sunday (light traffic), in an EcoCity, without stopping and it took 21 minutes. That's gonna be tight!

(21 Oct 2014, 8:27 pm)MrPottski wrote So, they are reckoning on 26 mins from Peterlee Bus Station to Park Lane. I drove it on Sunday (light traffic), in an EcoCity, without stopping and it took 21 minutes. That's gonna be tight!

Not sure what the differences are in terms of mileage or top speed of the buses, but Go North East allocates 30 minutes to get from Peterlee to Sunderland, on its X7 service which is allocated Mercedes Citaros, serving Dawdon Business Park, Seaham and Grangetown. I find that the timings are quite slack and drivers often have time to twiddle their thumbs or have increased layover at Park Lane - and that's when they have to deal with picking up/dropping off quite a few people!

Chances are you won't pick up in Ryhope anyway (really can't see there being a demand but I could be wrong), so you'll be non-stop regardless.

So, they are reckoning on 26 mins from Peterlee Bus Station to Park Lane. I drove it on Sunday (light traffic), in an EcoCity, without stopping and it took 21 minutes. That's gonna be tight!

Not sure what the differences are in terms of mileage or top speed of the buses, but Go North East allocates 30 minutes to get from Peterlee to Sunderland, on its X7 service which is allocated Mercedes Citaros, serving Dawdon Business Park, Seaham and Grangetown. I find that the timings are quite slack and drivers often have time to twiddle their thumbs or have increased layover at Park Lane - and that's when they have to deal with picking up/dropping off quite a few people!


Chances are you won't pick up in Ryhope anyway (really can't see there being a demand but I could be wrong), so you'll be non-stop regardless.

Doesn't help that the top speed of the EcoCitys is about 52mph, although the X21 gets 4 minutes at Peterlee before departing for Sunderland and then 7 minutes layover time before it departs Park Lane to head back to Peterlee then 5 minutes before heading back to Darlington as the 21, it is a bit tight especially in an EcoCity.

 Probably only pick up concession passes in Ryhpoe heading to Sunderland who get on the first bus that turns up.

(21 Oct 2014, 8:55 pm)Jimmi wrote Doesn't help that the top speed of the EcoCitys is about 52mph, although the X21 gets 4 minutes at Peterlee before departing for Sunderland and then 7 minutes layover time before it departs Park Lane to head back to Peterlee then 5 minutes before heading back to Darlington as the 21, it is a bit tight especially in an EcoCity.

 Probably only pick up concession passes in Ryhpoe heading to Sunderland who get on the first bus that turns up.

Service X7 rarely stops at Grangetown - passengers tend to let it go past as they're still unfamiliar with what the service is (and it's been around for quite a while now). I have no doubt that the same will apply for the X21 too.

Can't remember off the top of my head where in Ryhope the X21 stops now, but assuming it's near the War Memorial...
Obviously with 16 buses per hour through Ryhope (6x 29/39, 6x 60, 4x 61) from Go North East, it's unlikely that the X21 would be the first one to turn up anyway.

Service X7 rarely stops at Grangetown - passengers tend to let it go past as they're still unfamiliar with what the service is (and it's been around for quite a while now). I have no doubt that the same will apply for the X21 too.


Can't remember off the top of my head where in Ryhope the X21 stops now, but assuming it's near the War Memorial...
Obviously with 16 buses per hour through Ryhope (6x 29/39, 6x 60, 4x 61) from Go North East, it's unlikely that the X21 would be the first one to turn up anyway.

The X21 looks to stop at all stops between Ryhope Village, Stockton Road and Park Lane according to the timetable on their website.
Again why are the times for the X21 to Sunderland below Newton Aycliffe   Awful website, just awful!

I assume people will let the X7 go past as people will see the X and see it as an express service so will assume it doesn't stop at that stop, just hope things aren't the same for the X21.

Notice on Darlington buses today. Existing Darlington Borough tickets renamed Darlington/Aycliffe and extended as far as Rushyford. At £17 weekly should be quite a bit cheaper for regulars!

A couple of minutes ago their was an arriva gas bus just went along Southway and it came up from being at the cricket club at Helford. It was branded on the side for service 21 and not branded for service X21.

There's an event on at Peterlee pavilion at present I understand, 4812/13/14 are all branded for the 21/X21 - 4814 (WX13GHN) is the one at the event today

(22 Oct 2014, 11:23 am)tyresmoke wrote There's an event on at Peterlee pavilion at present I understand, 4812/13/14 are all branded for the 21/X21 - 4814 (WX13GHN) is the one at the event today

Cheers for the info tyresmoke.

On VOSA today:

PB0002717/280 - ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted: Operating between Durham North Road and Ushaw College given service number U1 effective from 14-Dec-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

(22 Oct 2014, 11:10 am)cbma06 wrote A couple of minutes ago their was an arriva gas bus just went along Southway and it came up from being at the cricket club at Helford. It was branded on the side for service 21 and not branded for service X21.

They're branded for both cbma.

(22 Oct 2014, 4:04 pm)MrPottski wrote They're branded for both cbma.

Yep, I saw the picture on the other thread afterwards, the bus looked smart though.

Another registration on VOSA:

PB0002717/382 - ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Durham and Sunderland given service number 22 effective from 27-Oct-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

Arriva North East celebrated the launch of 5 new micro-hybrid buses and 3 gas buses on services running from Sunderland into East Durham and Darlington. - See more at:

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/La...underland/

They're really pushing their services on the Sunderland - Peterlee corridor mind!

#buswar
#hashtagsonNEB

(22 Oct 2014, 8:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote They're really pushing their services on the Sunderland - Peterlee corridor mind!

#buswar
#hashtagsonNEB

Good!

Arriva need to be more in Sunderland because it was founded in Sunderland... hence why i hope Arriva get most of the Sunderland services for the QC  

(22 Oct 2014, 8:25 pm)Michael wrote Good!

Arriva need to be more in Sunderland because it was founded in Sunderland... hence why i hope Arriva get most of the Sunderland services for the QC  

Do remember that there only tends to be one winner in a 'bus war', with one service either being withdrawn or facing cuts in each review the service receives... I needn't remind everyone of the recent examples, as I've done these to death in posts in the past.

If - and it's a big if - Go North East's service starts running at a loss due to the increased patronage Arriva will expect to see on service 23 (due to the investment), and a competing service being implemented which offers a slightly quicker journey time, then it's entirely possible that service X7 will face cuts and it could potentially lead to the service's withdrawal.

Potentially bad news for Peterlee drivers if there is a PVR reduction at their depot, and definite bad news for customers who currently benefit from unlimited travel on all "East Durham" services, "Fast Cats" X35 and "Wear Tees Xpress" X7 (Sunderland - Wingate) with GNE's "East Durham" saver ticket. The price of this ticket is unlikely to decrease, even if there was 'less value for money' due to the withdrawal of the X7 service...

Competition can be a good thing in the sense that operators will battle at first - perhaps implementing cheaper fares or more features on-board buses - but I'd suggest that it doesn't always end well which is why I will always remain sceptical about competing services.

(22 Oct 2014, 8:32 pm)Dan wrote Do remember that there only tends to be one winner in a 'bus war', with one service either being withdrawn or facing cuts in each review the service receives... I needn't remind everyone of the recent examples, as I've done these to death in posts in the past.

If - and it's a big if - Go North East's service starts running at a loss due to the increased patronage Arriva will expect to see on service 23 (due to the investment), and a competing service being implemented which offers a slightly quicker journey time, then it's entirely possible that service X7 will face cuts and it could potentially lead to the service's withdrawal.

Bad news for Peterlee drivers if there is a PVR reduction at their depot, and bad news for customers who currently benefit from unlimited travel on all "East Durham" services, "Fast Cats" X35 and "Wear Tees Xpress" X7 (Sunderland - Wingate) with GNE's "East Durham" saver ticket. The price of this ticket is unlikely to decrease, even if there was 'less value for money' due to the withdrawal of the X7 service...

Competition can be a good thing in the sense that operators will battle at first - perhaps implementing cheaper fares or more features on-board buses - but I'd suggest that it doesn't always end well.

It won't be good but its good we will see some competition again... anyway... its only a 4 min difference from Sunderland to Peterlee on the X7 and X21 

X7 - 30 mins 
X21 - 26 mins 

I really think passengers will just stick to what they currently use.. the 21 and 22 may loose a few to the X21 though but it only runs hourly and the X7 and X21 don't leave at the same time. 

It won't be good but its good we will see some competition again... anyway... its only a 4 min difference from Sunderland to Peterlee on the X7 and X21

 X7 - 30 mins
 X21 - 26 mins
 I really think passengers will just stick to what they currently use.. the 21 and 22 may loose a few to the X21 though but it only runs hourly and the X7 and X21 don't leave at the same time.

I think the new X21 won't kill the X7, when I've seen it has arrived in Peterlee with decent loads from the Boro end of the route and has then left for Sunderland with another decent load. Also I think the X7 will still be in front of the 21A between Station Town and Peterlee Bus Station and is also faster than the 21A. I have also seen a few passengers travelling from Peterlee to Seaham too. Also the X7 is about 30 minutes apart from the 21/X21. There is also the passengers who may use the East Durham services and then get the X7 to Sunderland and won't want to use two different operators because it would cost more.

I've only used the X7 about five times, and four out of five the loadings have been excellent. The first time was the full route, Sunderland to Stockton, and it was average from Sunderland to Seaham, and then relatively busy to Wingate, but quietened down to Middlesbrough. Other times have been from Sunderland to Peterlee, and have had excellent loads.

To me, the X7 seems a much more attractive option - nicer buses, better value fares, more connections etc. But lets see how it goes, I think the X21 will be withdrawn after a year. 

I've only used the X7 about five times, and four out of five the loadings have been excellent. The first time was the full route, Sunderland to Stockton, and it was average from Sunderland to Seaham, and then relatively busy to Wingate, but quietened down to Middlesbrough. Other times have been from Sunderland to Peterlee, and have had excellent loads.


To me, the X7 seems a much more attractive option - nicer buses, better value fares, more connections etc. But lets see how it goes, I think the X21 will be withdrawn after a year. 

The first few time I used which was the week it launched it had very few passengers, although the weather was awful that day. The second time I rode it from Sunderland to Stockton it was okay but not spectacular and was running about 10 minutes late so it lost some custom to the 21A. I recently rode the service between Peterlee and Seaham and it was packed there was one person standing too. Also recently rode it between Middlesbrough and Stockton and had a good few on.

I really hope the X21 can be a success too, as I like having a direct bus to Sunderland and not have to change buses in Durham or Peterlee and I will certainly be using this service on a regular basis and hopefully it won't be withdrawn after a year or so.

Arriva have staff out in Peterlee Bus Station today plugging the changes