(14 Feb 2020, 7:10 am)scanialover The inevitability of bus travel these days and despite my grumble about service 63 being from the area I know just how difficult it is to maintain time. I'd thought of things like turning late running services short and some sort of radio control management but this is Middlesbrough not London and it's just best, a fact, we stick with what we've got.
(14 Feb 2020, 7:10 am)scanialover The inevitability of bus travel these days and despite my grumble about service 63 being from the area I know just how difficult it is to maintain time. I'd thought of things like turning late running services short and some sort of radio control management but this is Middlesbrough not London and it's just best, a fact, we stick with what we've got.
So what's the point of being in business if you can't afford to be ? How much would a radio network cost , pitch that against how more reliable and effective services would be. I don't know just how depots (Arriva) keep in touch with their drivers Mobile phones perhaps? It all sounds a bit archaic, quite honestly.
(14 Feb 2020, 10:47 am)scanialover So what's the point of being in business if you can't afford to be ? How much would a radio network cost , pitch that against how more reliable and effective services would be. I don't know just how depots (Arriva) keep in touch with their drivers Mobile phones perhaps? It all sounds a bit archaic, quite honestly.
(14 Feb 2020, 10:47 am)scanialover So what's the point of being in business if you can't afford to be ? How much would a radio network cost , pitch that against how more reliable and effective services would be. I don't know just how depots (Arriva) keep in touch with their drivers Mobile phones perhaps? It all sounds a bit archaic, quite honestly.
(14 Feb 2020, 10:55 am)streetdeckfan The issue is Arriva's owners seeming want to invest as little as possible in it, so anything is too much.
Yes, drivers have to stop the bus and get off to use their mobile if they need to get in touch with the depot (we had an issue with the ticket machine not accepting cards pre-ticketer upgrade, and a passenger wasnt happy about it as he had no cash, so she had to call up to ask what to do)
Not sure how it would work the other way round, I guess if their phone rights they just check it at the next stop.
Although iirc the ticket machines have a messaging function on them so maybe that's how they do it now
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
(14 Feb 2020, 10:55 am)streetdeckfan The issue is Arriva's owners seeming want to invest as little as possible in it, so anything is too much.
Yes, drivers have to stop the bus and get off to use their mobile if they need to get in touch with the depot (we had an issue with the ticket machine not accepting cards pre-ticketer upgrade, and a passenger wasnt happy about it as he had no cash, so she had to call up to ask what to do)
Not sure how it would work the other way round, I guess if their phone rights they just check it at the next stop.
Although iirc the ticket machines have a messaging function on them so maybe that's how they do it now
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
(13 Feb 2020, 9:12 pm)Jimmi I have to agree about lack of ambition for trying new things especially routes, about the last real attempt Arriva gave a go at was the X1 from Darlington and that only happened as GNE introduced the competing OK1 service. About the only real changes in the last few years have been a few frequency increases and combining or altering of routes to make some form of improvements.
Arriva seem to be the worst for this atm, very little has changed and it feels as if nothing much is being done to combat the issues going on with things like timekeeping on routes, even with congestion increasing I still can't fathom why the Sapphire 7 seems to have so many issues sticking to time lately and is forever running in twos lately, the last month of service I've encountered from Arriva has been poor to say the least, nearly missed trains as a result of drivers crawling around the routes or just faffing about making services fall behind schedule or timetables that don't meet demands some of which I've expressed problems with for many years now.
Stagecoach has likely been the most ambitious recently with services of the big three with introducing the X24 plus that Saturday only X55 which didn't perform well but hey at least they gave it a go and of course that open top 'Seasider' service although must give GNE a mention for the Toon Tour even if it was just a replacement of sorts for the City Sightseeing tour. Hodgsons has done a bit since picking up some North Yorkshire tendered work including adding some extra runs to those services. Arriva have lacked this I feel, closest I feel was the 57/57A/58 changes in Durham recently and that was only because Scarlet Band seemingly didn't want to run the 58 anymore.
(13 Feb 2020, 9:12 pm)Jimmi I have to agree about lack of ambition for trying new things especially routes, about the last real attempt Arriva gave a go at was the X1 from Darlington and that only happened as GNE introduced the competing OK1 service. About the only real changes in the last few years have been a few frequency increases and combining or altering of routes to make some form of improvements.
Arriva seem to be the worst for this atm, very little has changed and it feels as if nothing much is being done to combat the issues going on with things like timekeeping on routes, even with congestion increasing I still can't fathom why the Sapphire 7 seems to have so many issues sticking to time lately and is forever running in twos lately, the last month of service I've encountered from Arriva has been poor to say the least, nearly missed trains as a result of drivers crawling around the routes or just faffing about making services fall behind schedule or timetables that don't meet demands some of which I've expressed problems with for many years now.
Stagecoach has likely been the most ambitious recently with services of the big three with introducing the X24 plus that Saturday only X55 which didn't perform well but hey at least they gave it a go and of course that open top 'Seasider' service although must give GNE a mention for the Toon Tour even if it was just a replacement of sorts for the City Sightseeing tour. Hodgsons has done a bit since picking up some North Yorkshire tendered work including adding some extra runs to those services. Arriva have lacked this I feel, closest I feel was the 57/57A/58 changes in Durham recently and that was only because Scarlet Band seemingly didn't want to run the 58 anymore.
(14 Feb 2020, 11:04 am)omnicity4659 1499 now carries a substantial amount of blue...wonder who's idea that was!
(14 Feb 2020, 10:55 am)streetdeckfan The issue is Arriva's owners seeming want to invest as little as possible in it, so anything is too much.The ETM does have a messaging system yep, so direct contact is available and used as much as radio systems.
Yes, drivers have to stop the bus and get off to use their mobile if they need to get in touch with the depot (we had an issue with the ticket machine not accepting cards pre-ticketer upgrade, and a passenger wasnt happy about it as he had no cash, so she had to call up to ask what to do)
Not sure how it would work the other way round, I guess if their phone rights they just check it at the next stop.
Although iirc the ticket machines have a messaging function on them so maybe that's how they do it now
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
(14 Feb 2020, 10:55 am)streetdeckfan The issue is Arriva's owners seeming want to invest as little as possible in it, so anything is too much.The ETM does have a messaging system yep, so direct contact is available and used as much as radio systems.
Yes, drivers have to stop the bus and get off to use their mobile if they need to get in touch with the depot (we had an issue with the ticket machine not accepting cards pre-ticketer upgrade, and a passenger wasnt happy about it as he had no cash, so she had to call up to ask what to do)
Not sure how it would work the other way round, I guess if their phone rights they just check it at the next stop.
Although iirc the ticket machines have a messaging function on them so maybe that's how they do it now
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
re some of the comment above....
1) waiting at durham bus station for 2 hours for a 21 to low fell. Asked 6+ drivers GNE if they could radio control and see what the crack was. All said radio not working so what's the point?
2) running buses on empty to catch up... 21 ( AGAIN) sanding in low fell in the rain, waited 15 minutes for a ? 12 minute service... bus appears.... not in service but empty. Next 2 buses in service but full. 4th bus managed to get on and pay £5 quid for the privilege of standing all the way to newcastle. Time from standing at bus stop to arriving in Newcastle 1 hour 10 minutes.
What is ETM? I always though that Arriva buses had some kind of tracking system that allowed some form of contact with the depot? It wasn't the most reliable and probably much the same as the present radio systems. There is a saying here? It is what it is.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...arlington/
Darlington ops haven't had much of a mention (jimmi aside).
1498 broke down today next to the stone bridge near houghall college heading from Durham , must of been on the 56 or X12, causing one lane blocked causing tailback, should of pushed a bus length then it would of been in the bus stop lay-by
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(14 Feb 2020, 4:18 pm)Rob44 They said to attract more passengers bus fares needed to be significantly cheaper than taxis or driving.
Nail on head
(14 Feb 2020, 4:18 pm)Rob44 They said to attract more passengers bus fares needed to be significantly cheaper than taxis or driving.
Nail on head
(14 Feb 2020, 5:35 pm)Andreos1 Passengers keep getting told that fares are attractive and value for money.
Passengers keep telling operators they're not.
Passenger numbers keep on dropping
Passengers keep getting told that to get anywhere, they need to adapt to suit the whims of the operator.
Passengers keep telling the operators they want a bus that suits them, not the whims of the operator.
Passenger numbers keep on dropping.
Something has to give. Surely?
At what point do operators turn around and acknowledge that a lot of what they're doing (not everything - some of it is good), isn't benefiting passengers and that is one of the reasons numbers are dropping?
At what point do they then do something about it and make changes which benefit passengers and doesn't contain the sort of spin Downing St would be proud of?
Self congratulary back patting can only go so far.
(14 Feb 2020, 5:35 pm)Andreos1 Passengers keep getting told that fares are attractive and value for money.
Passengers keep telling operators they're not.
Passenger numbers keep on dropping
Passengers keep getting told that to get anywhere, they need to adapt to suit the whims of the operator.
Passengers keep telling the operators they want a bus that suits them, not the whims of the operator.
Passenger numbers keep on dropping.
Something has to give. Surely?
At what point do operators turn around and acknowledge that a lot of what they're doing (not everything - some of it is good), isn't benefiting passengers and that is one of the reasons numbers are dropping?
At what point do they then do something about it and make changes which benefit passengers and doesn't contain the sort of spin Downing St would be proud of?
Self congratulary back patting can only go so far.
Sadly one thing we are stuck with where bus travel is concerned is that it just isn't financially viable to operate services just for a few passengers. It's a nice idea but then of the costings involved, drivers hours alone, wouldn't come anywhere near the odd few fares realised. Then we need to look at the safety implications of operating such services. Running vehicles into danger zones just isn't sensible in my eyes, one smashed window can cost a small fortune to replace, a life, I don't want to sound macabre, irreplaceable!
A Shame, and don't please,take this the wrong way those who wish / need to travel on an evening but these are the cold, hard facts we are stuck; a sad indictment of how times have had to change.
(14 Feb 2020, 11:15 am)Storx I weirdly have to totally disagree with this from north of the Tyne in N Tyneside and SE Northumberland point of view. GNE is by far by a country mile the worst. Summary of it from around here's point view.
Arriva
306 extension to Whitley Bay
*Pointless, could just go to Tynemouth to improve reliability. Marden could be served by extended 51A Mon-Sat.
New Blyth peak expresses
* Should these not be running all day? X8 needs split in Cramlington on that note, takes far too long to Newcastle for people in Bebside & Cowpen.
Experimented with later buses on X10/X11 (didn't work)
* Could've easily created a 43E out of this to make it viable but just came up with excuses when I contacted them. They later did the same with the 308
Not many new buses recently bar the few for X21/X22 but nothing downgraded.
* No new buses since, Blyth fleet needs replacing soon and Jesmond is a joke!
No big cuts to services in past 5
Stagecoach (Not really their area).
Extended 22 and 1 to Cobalt
* Fair enough
Seaside bus in North Tyneside
* Fair enough
GoNorthEast
Extended the 1 to Metro Centre via the world but cut Kibblesworth in the process.
* Only ran during evenings
Extended 11 to Newcastle (didn't work).
* Was an oddball as was the 57, better just having a streamlined 1 & 1A service.
Cut 309/10 to every 20 minutes.
* Makes sense particularly outside of peaks and won't be long before Arriva follow suit. GNE still run the 309 slightly more frequently to and from Cobalt during peaks as well as X39.
Cut 9 from Sunderland to South Shields (5) which then got cut altogether.
* Fair enough
Scrapped across town links with 58.
* Most prefer Haymarket and as mentioned before, new 311 coordinates better with 309 & 310 as well as extra capacity.
No new buses but Cobalt's refurbished.
* And to a high standard compared to the makeshift replacements the 308 got in exchange for the Hybrids.
Indigo / Little Coasters downgraded buses.
40/41/42/42A is about to get butchered - again.
11/19/40/41/42/42A only day time services since they've lost the night subsidies.
* Fair enough
309 last bus getting earlier and earlier.
* 2145 extended to Blyth in 2016
* Mon-Sat 1925 extended to Blyth in 2016
* New 1905 journey on Saturdays formed in 2016
* 2245 now runs on Sundays too
* Improved 20 min service between Newcastle and Battle Hill during evenings
* 2255 Blyth to New York re-introduced Mon-Sat and 2155 Sun & BH
* Extra evening running time & layover to improve reliability
No mentionable improvements to services at all. Literally I can't think of one enhancement to timetables.
I guess it just depends on where you live on what people think. The Northumbria Arriva has always been more proactive that the Durham / Tees division though. I could imagine people in certain parts of Sunderland not having glowing reviews or either GNE or Stagecoach depending on the area.
(14 Feb 2020, 11:15 am)Storx I weirdly have to totally disagree with this from north of the Tyne in N Tyneside and SE Northumberland point of view. GNE is by far by a country mile the worst. Summary of it from around here's point view.
Arriva
306 extension to Whitley Bay
*Pointless, could just go to Tynemouth to improve reliability. Marden could be served by extended 51A Mon-Sat.
New Blyth peak expresses
* Should these not be running all day? X8 needs split in Cramlington on that note, takes far too long to Newcastle for people in Bebside & Cowpen.
Experimented with later buses on X10/X11 (didn't work)
* Could've easily created a 43E out of this to make it viable but just came up with excuses when I contacted them. They later did the same with the 308
Not many new buses recently bar the few for X21/X22 but nothing downgraded.
* No new buses since, Blyth fleet needs replacing soon and Jesmond is a joke!
No big cuts to services in past 5
Stagecoach (Not really their area).
Extended 22 and 1 to Cobalt
* Fair enough
Seaside bus in North Tyneside
* Fair enough
GoNorthEast
Extended the 1 to Metro Centre via the world but cut Kibblesworth in the process.
* Only ran during evenings
Extended 11 to Newcastle (didn't work).
* Was an oddball as was the 57, better just having a streamlined 1 & 1A service.
Cut 309/10 to every 20 minutes.
* Makes sense particularly outside of peaks and won't be long before Arriva follow suit. GNE still run the 309 slightly more frequently to and from Cobalt during peaks as well as X39.
Cut 9 from Sunderland to South Shields (5) which then got cut altogether.
* Fair enough
Scrapped across town links with 58.
* Most prefer Haymarket and as mentioned before, new 311 coordinates better with 309 & 310 as well as extra capacity.
No new buses but Cobalt's refurbished.
* And to a high standard compared to the makeshift replacements the 308 got in exchange for the Hybrids.
Indigo / Little Coasters downgraded buses.
40/41/42/42A is about to get butchered - again.
11/19/40/41/42/42A only day time services since they've lost the night subsidies.
* Fair enough
309 last bus getting earlier and earlier.
* 2145 extended to Blyth in 2016
* Mon-Sat 1925 extended to Blyth in 2016
* New 1905 journey on Saturdays formed in 2016
* 2245 now runs on Sundays too
* Improved 20 min service between Newcastle and Battle Hill during evenings
* 2255 Blyth to New York re-introduced Mon-Sat and 2155 Sun & BH
* Extra evening running time & layover to improve reliability
No mentionable improvements to services at all. Literally I can't think of one enhancement to timetables.
I guess it just depends on where you live on what people think. The Northumbria Arriva has always been more proactive that the Durham / Tees division though. I could imagine people in certain parts of Sunderland not having glowing reviews or either GNE or Stagecoach depending on the area.
Here's my take on Arriva in Northumberland since 1990:
Berwick - Depot and bus station closed. Local services in the town given up.
Wooler - Depot closed entire operation given up.
Alnwick - Depot closed. Town services significantly reduced.
Morpeth - Depot closed. Town services significantly reduced.
Rothbury - Depot and bus station closed. Services reduced.
Whitley Bay -Depot and bus station closed. Town services significantly reduced.
Newcastle Gallogate - Depot, offices and works all closed.
Hexham - Operation passed to GNE. Haltwhistle and Allendale outstations closed.
Investment in a new depot at Ashington. But customer facilities at the replacement bus station are rather lacking.
Blyth still has the same depot and bus station.
Feel free to draw your conclusions.
Charles
L483YVK Arriva
306 extension to Whitley Bay
*Pointless, could just go to Tynemouth to improve reliability. Marden could be served by extended 51A Mon-Sat.
** It's still an enhancement, more places example from Blyth / Cramlington who want to travel through have an option on day tickets.
New Blyth peak expresses
* Should these not be running all day? X8 needs split in Cramlington on that note, takes far too long to Newcastle for people in Bebside & Cowpen.
** Maybe but it's still an improvement them existing they didn't exist before hand.
Experimented with later buses on X10/X11 (didn't work)
* Could've easily created a 43E out of this to make it viable but just came up with excuses when I contacted them. They later did the same with the 308
** It was more the inward journey that was the problem, it carried fresh air.
Not many new buses recently bar the few for X21/X22 but nothing downgraded.
* No new buses since, Blyth fleet needs replacing soon and Jesmond is a joke!
** They maybe old but GNE's Percy Main's depot aren't particularly much newer on the main which does North Tyneside.
No big cuts to services in past 5
Stagecoach (Not really their area).
Extended 22 and 1 to Cobalt
* Fair enough
Seaside bus in North Tyneside
* Fair enough
GoNorthEast
Extended the 1 to Metro Centre via the world but cut Kibblesworth in the process.
* Only ran during evenings
** My mistake there.
Extended 11 to Newcastle (didn't work).
* Was an oddball as was the 57, better just having a streamlined 1 & 1A service.
Cut 309/10 to every 20 minutes.
* Makes sense particularly outside of peaks and won't be long before Arriva follow suit. GNE still run the 309 slightly more frequently to and from Cobalt during peaks as well as X39.
** It's a cut to North Tyneside / SE Northumberland. Someone in South Beach or Verne Road doesn't care about the X39 not to mention the buses they lost to actually for these services in the past (The Centurion). Monkseaton doesn't have a bus to Newcastle at all now but that's out the 5 year window I said. Looking back earlier it's even worse.
Cut 9 from Sunderland to South Shields (5) which then got cut altogether.
* Fair enough
Scrapped across town links with 58.
* Most prefer Haymarket and as mentioned before, new 311 coordinates better with 309 & 310 as well as extra capacity.
** Haymarket true, it's still a link lost.
No new buses but Cobalt's refurbished.
* And to a high standard compared to the makeshift replacements the 308 got in exchange for the Hybrids.
Indigo / Little Coasters downgraded buses.
40/41/42/42A is about to get butchered - again.
11/19/40/41/42/42A only day time services since they've lost the night subsidies.
* Fair enough
309 last bus getting earlier and earlier.
* 2145 extended to Blyth in 2016
* Mon-Sat 1925 extended to Blyth in 2016
* New 1905 journey on Saturdays formed in 2016
* 2245 now runs on Sundays too
* Improved 20 min service between Newcastle and Battle Hill during evenings
* 2255 Blyth to New York re-introduced Mon-Sat and 2155 Sun & BH
* Extra evening running time & layover to improve reliability
L483YVK Arriva
306 extension to Whitley Bay
*Pointless, could just go to Tynemouth to improve reliability. Marden could be served by extended 51A Mon-Sat.
** It's still an enhancement, more places example from Blyth / Cramlington who want to travel through have an option on day tickets.
New Blyth peak expresses
* Should these not be running all day? X8 needs split in Cramlington on that note, takes far too long to Newcastle for people in Bebside & Cowpen.
** Maybe but it's still an improvement them existing they didn't exist before hand.
Experimented with later buses on X10/X11 (didn't work)
* Could've easily created a 43E out of this to make it viable but just came up with excuses when I contacted them. They later did the same with the 308
** It was more the inward journey that was the problem, it carried fresh air.
Not many new buses recently bar the few for X21/X22 but nothing downgraded.
* No new buses since, Blyth fleet needs replacing soon and Jesmond is a joke!
** They maybe old but GNE's Percy Main's depot aren't particularly much newer on the main which does North Tyneside.
No big cuts to services in past 5
Stagecoach (Not really their area).
Extended 22 and 1 to Cobalt
* Fair enough
Seaside bus in North Tyneside
* Fair enough
GoNorthEast
Extended the 1 to Metro Centre via the world but cut Kibblesworth in the process.
* Only ran during evenings
** My mistake there.
Extended 11 to Newcastle (didn't work).
* Was an oddball as was the 57, better just having a streamlined 1 & 1A service.
Cut 309/10 to every 20 minutes.
* Makes sense particularly outside of peaks and won't be long before Arriva follow suit. GNE still run the 309 slightly more frequently to and from Cobalt during peaks as well as X39.
** It's a cut to North Tyneside / SE Northumberland. Someone in South Beach or Verne Road doesn't care about the X39 not to mention the buses they lost to actually for these services in the past (The Centurion). Monkseaton doesn't have a bus to Newcastle at all now but that's out the 5 year window I said. Looking back earlier it's even worse.
Cut 9 from Sunderland to South Shields (5) which then got cut altogether.
* Fair enough
Scrapped across town links with 58.
* Most prefer Haymarket and as mentioned before, new 311 coordinates better with 309 & 310 as well as extra capacity.
** Haymarket true, it's still a link lost.
No new buses but Cobalt's refurbished.
* And to a high standard compared to the makeshift replacements the 308 got in exchange for the Hybrids.
Indigo / Little Coasters downgraded buses.
40/41/42/42A is about to get butchered - again.
11/19/40/41/42/42A only day time services since they've lost the night subsidies.
* Fair enough
309 last bus getting earlier and earlier.
* 2145 extended to Blyth in 2016
* Mon-Sat 1925 extended to Blyth in 2016
* New 1905 journey on Saturdays formed in 2016
* 2245 now runs on Sundays too
* Improved 20 min service between Newcastle and Battle Hill during evenings
* 2255 Blyth to New York re-introduced Mon-Sat and 2155 Sun & BH
* Extra evening running time & layover to improve reliability
(14 Feb 2020, 8:29 pm)Storx Commented above with ** remember these are from a North Tyneside / SE Northumberland perspective so having 25 buses or 4 buses going along the Coast Road won't affect them. I wasn't attacking GNE there it's just genuinely what's happened in the area whereas you've got a major bias towards GNE.I get your point. Yes the vehicles aren't exactly new on the likes of the Coaster but if you look at Arriva, you have 59 & 61 plate VDL Geminis running Blyth's "goldmine" routes (X10/ X11/308) plus any other ex London / Yorkshire cast-offs that pop up from time.
GNE might be good in Consett, Hexham and Gateshead but in Sunderland and North Tyneside they've been butchering away at services for awhile now with little improvements on the main.
(14 Feb 2020, 8:29 pm)Storx Commented above with ** remember these are from a North Tyneside / SE Northumberland perspective so having 25 buses or 4 buses going along the Coast Road won't affect them. I wasn't attacking GNE there it's just genuinely what's happened in the area whereas you've got a major bias towards GNE.I get your point. Yes the vehicles aren't exactly new on the likes of the Coaster but if you look at Arriva, you have 59 & 61 plate VDL Geminis running Blyth's "goldmine" routes (X10/ X11/308) plus any other ex London / Yorkshire cast-offs that pop up from time.
GNE might be good in Consett, Hexham and Gateshead but in Sunderland and North Tyneside they've been butchering away at services for awhile now with little improvements on the main.
