Tees Flex
Tees Flex
(24 Jan 2023, 8:28 am)Unber43 I have seen on twitter than the Conservative Mayor of Tees Valley may be axing Tees FlexI used Flex quite often 2020-2021. Useful, but only a sticking plaster, hiding the massive fault lines caused by having a deregulated bus service.
(24 Jan 2023, 8:28 am)Unber43 I have seen on twitter than the Conservative Mayor of Tees Valley may be axing Tees FlexI used Flex quite often 2020-2021. Useful, but only a sticking plaster, hiding the massive fault lines caused by having a deregulated bus service.
(24 Jan 2023, 9:17 am)Economic505 I used Flex quite often 2020-2021. Useful, but only a sticking plaster, hiding the massive fault lines caused by having a deregulated bus service.
(24 Jan 2023, 9:17 am)Economic505 I used Flex quite often 2020-2021. Useful, but only a sticking plaster, hiding the massive fault lines caused by having a deregulated bus service.
Notably, there's two new scheduled bus services with funding from TVCA (Tees Valley Combined Authority) due to start in March which will connect with Saltburn train station, the hospital and Skelton and also take in a number of remote East Cleveland communities, including the likes of Liverton Mines, Moorsholm and Stanghow.
Info sourced from an article which reports on complaints about a lack of service in parts of Easington after the Redcar & Cleveland Council bus services were withdrawn in March 2020: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
The last paragraph states: "Tees Flex was an initial three-year pilot. Options for when the pilot period comes to an end in February 2023 have been under review."
(24 Jan 2023, 10:52 pm)Jimmi Notably, there's two new scheduled bus services with funding from TVCA (Tees Valley Combined Authority) due to start in March which will connect with Saltburn train station, the hospital and Skelton and also take in a number of remote East Cleveland communities, including the likes of Liverton Mines, Moorsholm and Stanghow.I said Teesflex wouldn’t and it hasn’t. They might actually be better off bringing the supported bus services back with routes to tender such as the 516 and H1 used to be. The problem is though the current TVCA won’t do that because Houchen has to much of a big echo and Tees flex allowed him to have special buses saying it’s from him which he wouldn’t get on normal service buses.
Info sourced from an article which reports on complaints about a lack of service in parts of Easington after the Redcar & Cleveland Council bus services were withdrawn in March 2020: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
The last paragraph states: "Tees Flex was an initial three-year pilot. Options for when the pilot period comes to an end in February 2023 have been under review."
(24 Jan 2023, 10:52 pm)Jimmi Notably, there's two new scheduled bus services with funding from TVCA (Tees Valley Combined Authority) due to start in March which will connect with Saltburn train station, the hospital and Skelton and also take in a number of remote East Cleveland communities, including the likes of Liverton Mines, Moorsholm and Stanghow.I said Teesflex wouldn’t and it hasn’t. They might actually be better off bringing the supported bus services back with routes to tender such as the 516 and H1 used to be. The problem is though the current TVCA won’t do that because Houchen has to much of a big echo and Tees flex allowed him to have special buses saying it’s from him which he wouldn’t get on normal service buses.
Info sourced from an article which reports on complaints about a lack of service in parts of Easington after the Redcar & Cleveland Council bus services were withdrawn in March 2020: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...e=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
The last paragraph states: "Tees Flex was an initial three-year pilot. Options for when the pilot period comes to an end in February 2023 have been under review."
(25 Jan 2023, 8:08 pm)col87 I said Teesflex wouldn’t and it hasn’t. They might actually be better off bringing the supported bus services back with routes to tender such as the 516 and H1 used to be. The problem is though the current TVCA won’t do that because Houchen has to much of a big echo and Tees flex allowed him to have special buses saying it’s from him which he wouldn’t get on normal service buses.
They probably is a place for DRT but under the current it clearly is not working and the fact is even with an increase in taxi fares for a family it would still be cheaper to use one.
(25 Jan 2023, 8:08 pm)col87 I said Teesflex wouldn’t and it hasn’t. They might actually be better off bringing the supported bus services back with routes to tender such as the 516 and H1 used to be. The problem is though the current TVCA won’t do that because Houchen has to much of a big echo and Tees flex allowed him to have special buses saying it’s from him which he wouldn’t get on normal service buses.
They probably is a place for DRT but under the current it clearly is not working and the fact is even with an increase in taxi fares for a family it would still be cheaper to use one.
(25 Jan 2023, 9:56 pm)Unber43 What's the pricing like?
(25 Jan 2023, 9:56 pm)Unber43 What's the pricing like?
(25 Jan 2023, 9:56 pm)Unber43 What's the pricing like?
(25 Jan 2023, 9:43 pm)Storx Personally they should open it up to anyone even within Stockton etc as long as there's not a commercial bus service doing the same route or close by.
For example if someone is going from Brotton to James Cook would it really be the end of the world if it picked a few punters up from Saltburn for example or it ends up being a shuttle service to Teesside Park, Portrack Lane shops or Tesco in Stockton from the numerous estates around Teesside as those places must be some of the most disconnected places around. Surely that's the purpose of it aswell?
Right now it's unsustainable imo there must be 20k potential customers max in the Darlington / Stockton zone.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...s-26072240
Decision yet to be made according to a spokesperson.
Meanwhile Houchen was able to announce that the 101 has been extended in partnership with Tesco.
(25 Jan 2023, 9:56 pm)Unber43 What's the pricing like?
(25 Jan 2023, 9:43 pm)Storx Personally they should open it up to anyone even within Stockton etc as long as there's not a commercial bus service doing the same route or close by.
For example if someone is going from Brotton to James Cook would it really be the end of the world if it picked a few punters up from Saltburn for example or it ends up being a shuttle service to Teesside Park, Portrack Lane shops or Tesco in Stockton from the numerous estates around Teesside as those places must be some of the most disconnected places around. Surely that's the purpose of it aswell?
Right now it's unsustainable imo there must be 20k potential customers max in the Darlington / Stockton zone.
(25 Jan 2023, 11:38 pm)Andreos1 That's exactly what it does - assuming there's someone in Saltburn wanting to go west towards James Cook.
Me and Mrs C boarded it in Saltburn a few weeks back along with another fella and noticed it was coming from Skelton. Although we were going to Guisborough, it went via Wilton, dropped the person off who had presumably got on at Skelton and continued on our way.
We got off it and awatly the Teesflex went with the fella, off in to the distance.
It did exactly what it was meant to do and opened up affordable travel opportunities for those let down by commercial operators, who don't offer an attractive or viable alternative.
![[Image: tees-flex--map--redcar--cleveland-update...-2021.ashx]](https://www.stagecoachbus.com/media-library/images/opcos/north-east/tees-flex/tees-flex--map--redcar--cleveland-updated-june-2021.ashx)
![[Image: tees-flex--map-lots-updated-dec-202103-2.ashx]](https://www.stagecoachbus.com/media-library/images/opcos/north-east/tees-flex/tees-flex--map-lots-updated-dec-202103-2.ashx)
(25 Jan 2023, 11:38 pm)Andreos1 That's exactly what it does - assuming there's someone in Saltburn wanting to go west towards James Cook.
Me and Mrs C boarded it in Saltburn a few weeks back along with another fella and noticed it was coming from Skelton. Although we were going to Guisborough, it went via Wilton, dropped the person off who had presumably got on at Skelton and continued on our way.
We got off it and awatly the Teesflex went with the fella, off in to the distance.
It did exactly what it was meant to do and opened up affordable travel opportunities for those let down by commercial operators, who don't offer an attractive or viable alternative.
Ultimately, the scheme will live or die but what is deemed "value for money". It may be value for the user. But what about the then other non bus using council tax payers? I don't have an opinion either way on Flex, but given as R&EC Council also run their own bus services, I'd say either scrap ALL the supported services in area and just have Flex or try and link the most popular places used in Flex and use a proper bus instead, if that is cheaper.
That being said, I'd also argue that a lot of the rural communities in Redcar and Cleveland are simply too small and too far apart to join up in any meaningful way with a normal bus. So, like elsewhere, a lot of moving parts at play.
(25 Jan 2023, 11:59 pm)Storx I don't think you can do that journey.
That's the map below and as far as I'm aware. You can only travel from anywhere in the blue zone to one any of those points or from any of the two secondary points. So you can do Saltburn to Guisborough or Skelton to James Cook but can't do Saltburn to James Cook (even known the bus is going there anyway).
It's stupid imo, otherwise the advertising is just wrong. If they opened up everywhere it would do much better.
The Stockton / Darlington is even more stupid zone wise
So technically you could get a bus from Houghton Le Side to Teesside Park but you can't get one from Thornaby to Teesside Park (even known there's absolutely no bus service at all without doubling back). If they opened it up I could imagine it working well even if it's people going from Amazon to their house near ASDA in Darlington etc (another 50 minute round trip) etc. Right now it's rather limited.
(25 Jan 2023, 11:59 pm)Storx I don't think you can do that journey.
That's the map below and as far as I'm aware. You can only travel from anywhere in the blue zone to one any of those points or from any of the two secondary points. So you can do Saltburn to Guisborough or Skelton to James Cook but can't do Saltburn to James Cook (even known the bus is going there anyway).
It's stupid imo, otherwise the advertising is just wrong. If they opened up everywhere it would do much better.
The Stockton / Darlington is even more stupid zone wise
So technically you could get a bus from Houghton Le Side to Teesside Park but you can't get one from Thornaby to Teesside Park (even known there's absolutely no bus service at all without doubling back). If they opened it up I could imagine it working well even if it's people going from Amazon to their house near ASDA in Darlington etc (another 50 minute round trip) etc. Right now it's rather limited.
(26 Jan 2023, 8:46 am)Andreos1 Yeah, it is possible. I've just tried to book it and it has let me.
(26 Jan 2023, 8:46 am)Andreos1 Yeah, it is possible. I've just tried to book it and it has let me.
(26 Jan 2023, 9:00 am)Storx Strange, complicated since the maps say you can't.
The fact we're having this discussion and can generally understand bus stuff. God knows what someone who doesn't understand buses thinks.
Bit of a mess tbh.
(26 Jan 2023, 9:00 am)Storx Strange, complicated since the maps say you can't.
The fact we're having this discussion and can generally understand bus stuff. God knows what someone who doesn't understand buses thinks.
Bit of a mess tbh.
(26 Jan 2023, 11:31 am)Andreos1 I think there was some tweaking of the maps early on in the process, but I agree, it's not very clear. Even after changes.
I've just tried to plan a journey using the planner and in the image below, you can see where you can and can't travel to from the R&C zone.
Apart from the obvious R&C zone, you can travel to/from outlying areas such as James Cook, Nunthorpe, Lazenby, Wilton, a strip of Redcar, New Marske and Marske and Saltburn.
(26 Jan 2023, 11:31 am)Andreos1 I think there was some tweaking of the maps early on in the process, but I agree, it's not very clear. Even after changes.
I've just tried to plan a journey using the planner and in the image below, you can see where you can and can't travel to from the R&C zone.
Apart from the obvious R&C zone, you can travel to/from outlying areas such as James Cook, Nunthorpe, Lazenby, Wilton, a strip of Redcar, New Marske and Marske and Saltburn.
(26 Jan 2023, 12:18 pm)Storx Thanks for that wasn't actually aware of that. It'd be much better if they scrapped the zones and you could book a bus to well anywhere in Tees Valley.
Then again I still think it's the wrong people operating it, it should be sold more as a taxi imo as some form of inbetween mode of transport. I'm surprised one of the taxi firms haven't attempted it yet.
They'd be ideal at night when you have 20 people all travelling towards to Coast at 3am, get one minibus. Get everyone on board for say £3 each, and drop everyone off respectively with the one bus/taxi. It's better than what happens now when you wait an hour as there's no taxis and they're all dead running from the Coast as that's where everyone is going. I'd personally 100% use them. There's already enough buses lingering around like the W1, W2, K2, 335 etc which could instantly be moved to it or in the case for Teesside the Tees Flex buses.
(26 Jan 2023, 12:18 pm)Storx Thanks for that wasn't actually aware of that. It'd be much better if they scrapped the zones and you could book a bus to well anywhere in Tees Valley.
Then again I still think it's the wrong people operating it, it should be sold more as a taxi imo as some form of inbetween mode of transport. I'm surprised one of the taxi firms haven't attempted it yet.
They'd be ideal at night when you have 20 people all travelling towards to Coast at 3am, get one minibus. Get everyone on board for say £3 each, and drop everyone off respectively with the one bus/taxi. It's better than what happens now when you wait an hour as there's no taxis and they're all dead running from the Coast as that's where everyone is going. I'd personally 100% use them. There's already enough buses lingering around like the W1, W2, K2, 335 etc which could instantly be moved to it or in the case for Teesside the Tees Flex buses.
(26 Jan 2023, 12:51 pm)Andreos1 I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but how would you then ensure that a big chunk of the buses weren't all in one area and the subsequent fuel costs increased as a result?
What's interesting about Teesflex, is that some people are using it over a commercial bus.
I was using it from Guisborough recently and a couple boarded it to Skelton. They got off a few mins walk from where the 5 would have dropped them, but saved a few quid in the process (even more if they had a return ticket).
I'm also aware of a friend of Mrs C using it over an 81.
We've used it as a group of 4, over an X3/X4 too.
That's one of my issues with it. In that it can be used as an alternative in some situations and I'm not sure that's what it's been designed for.
(26 Jan 2023, 12:51 pm)Andreos1 I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but how would you then ensure that a big chunk of the buses weren't all in one area and the subsequent fuel costs increased as a result?
What's interesting about Teesflex, is that some people are using it over a commercial bus.
I was using it from Guisborough recently and a couple boarded it to Skelton. They got off a few mins walk from where the 5 would have dropped them, but saved a few quid in the process (even more if they had a return ticket).
I'm also aware of a friend of Mrs C using it over an 81.
We've used it as a group of 4, over an X3/X4 too.
That's one of my issues with it. In that it can be used as an alternative in some situations and I'm not sure that's what it's been designed for.
(25 Jan 2023, 11:38 pm)Andreos1 It did exactly what it was meant to do and opened up affordable travel opportunities for those let down by commercial operators, who don't offer an attractive or viable alternative.Clearly TeesFlex isn't a viable solution though, otherwise it wouldn't be at risk of ending.
(25 Jan 2023, 11:38 pm)Andreos1 It did exactly what it was meant to do and opened up affordable travel opportunities for those let down by commercial operators, who don't offer an attractive or viable alternative.Clearly TeesFlex isn't a viable solution though, otherwise it wouldn't be at risk of ending.
(26 Jan 2023, 1:15 pm)Storx I'd say have some form of cap of how far where you can go, otherwise it will connect to a local service to complete the journey so it'd remove examples like above so say if someone wants to travel from one of villages to Middlesbrough it'd only go to Redcar or Guisborough and you'd have to change to one of the buses there and the same in return but someone in Redcar can also use it to do the same thing.I not sure using examples in Tyneside helps something that’s for the Tees Valley.
But the areas it would work well if done properly would be:
Work Buses:
Say James Cook has 20 nurses every evening / morning needing to get home have a bus which turns at 7pm prompt and it takes everyone direct to where they want to live. It would better than the current work services that exist imo. Places like Team Valley and Cobalt would be perfect for it and get arid of the likes of 939 attempting to go where people don't want to be even if it worked that'll be there waiting for the 07:35 X1 from Houghton at Washington Galleries and a few people can connect onto it.
Supermarket / Hospital Buses:
Pick up multiple pensioners to take them to the local supermarket or hospital appointments. Replace silly short taxi fares and connect people to where they want to be.
Hub Buses:
Connect to the latest hub and time it to connect with other services say in the Whitley Bay / Backworth area connecting with Metro trains at Northumberland Park and replace the likes of W1 and W2.
Evening Buses:
Merge taxi services at night where everyone is going to the same places with much reduced fares.
Outside of those what else is there really needed tbh. It's arguably the biggest gaps right now.
(26 Jan 2023, 1:15 pm)Storx I'd say have some form of cap of how far where you can go, otherwise it will connect to a local service to complete the journey so it'd remove examples like above so say if someone wants to travel from one of villages to Middlesbrough it'd only go to Redcar or Guisborough and you'd have to change to one of the buses there and the same in return but someone in Redcar can also use it to do the same thing.I not sure using examples in Tyneside helps something that’s for the Tees Valley.
But the areas it would work well if done properly would be:
Work Buses:
Say James Cook has 20 nurses every evening / morning needing to get home have a bus which turns at 7pm prompt and it takes everyone direct to where they want to live. It would better than the current work services that exist imo. Places like Team Valley and Cobalt would be perfect for it and get arid of the likes of 939 attempting to go where people don't want to be even if it worked that'll be there waiting for the 07:35 X1 from Houghton at Washington Galleries and a few people can connect onto it.
Supermarket / Hospital Buses:
Pick up multiple pensioners to take them to the local supermarket or hospital appointments. Replace silly short taxi fares and connect people to where they want to be.
Hub Buses:
Connect to the latest hub and time it to connect with other services say in the Whitley Bay / Backworth area connecting with Metro trains at Northumberland Park and replace the likes of W1 and W2.
Evening Buses:
Merge taxi services at night where everyone is going to the same places with much reduced fares.
Outside of those what else is there really needed tbh. It's arguably the biggest gaps right now.
(26 Jan 2023, 8:37 pm)RobinHood Clearly TeesFlex isn't a viable solution though, otherwise it wouldn't be at risk of ending.
All it does is provide further evidence that A) DRT once again doesn't work; and B) these niche journeys that fall outside of the existing bus network will never be sustainable no matter how many suggest otherwise or petition for it.
(26 Jan 2023, 8:37 pm)RobinHood Clearly TeesFlex isn't a viable solution though, otherwise it wouldn't be at risk of ending.
All it does is provide further evidence that A) DRT once again doesn't work; and B) these niche journeys that fall outside of the existing bus network will never be sustainable no matter how many suggest otherwise or petition for it.
