Does anyone know (other than the depot) where the Tees Flex buses tend to gather between pick ups.
I know Stillington is one location as I found 3 gathered there on Monday. Just need 2 more of the things to get photos of, and annoyingly they don't track anymore.
(16 Jun 2020, 10:58 pm)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]Does anyone know (other than the depot) where the Tees Flex buses tend to gather between pick ups.
I know Stillington is one location as I found 3 gathered there on Monday. Just need 2 more of the things to get photos of, and annoyingly they don't track anymore.
Weekends tend to see a handful parked up at Ron Perry/American Diner on the A19.
I've also noticed one or two parked up in Carlin How (opposite the steel works) at various times of the week.
Skelton Asda seems to be a common haunt and might be worth looking in, before heading to Carlin How.
When I was faffing with the app early on after launch, Skelton (outside the pubs on Marske Lane) often seemed to be the location the vehicle was parked at prior to collection. No idea if that's still the case.
Yeah the drivers tend to have their own favourite spots, and from what I gather are enjoying it. Carlin How in the club car park is a favourite spot as there's usually a burger van there, and as said Skelton Asda is another good one.
More stops being added to Tees Flex in the near future
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and.../tees-flex
Billingham Town Centre being one that I've questioned for a good while as being missing.
Interesting addition of East Cleveland to James Cook Hospital for an additional £2 surplus charge - I wonder if something like that could not be offered for destinations in Hartlepool to North Tees Hospital. In addition, note the addition destinations added in Hartlepool.
(24 Aug 2020, 10:06 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]More stops being added to Tees Flex in the near future
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and.../tees-flex
Billingham Town Centre being one that I've questioned for a good while as being missing.
Interesting addition of East Cleveland to James Cook Hospital for an additional £2 surplus charge - I wonder if something like that could not be offered for destinations in Hartlepool to North Tees Hospital. In addition, note the addition destinations added in Hartlepool.
Maybe even Towards Peterlee. I dont know if they would want to muscle in on Arriva though.
(24 Aug 2020, 11:50 am)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Maybe even Towards Peterlee. I dont know if they would want to muscle in on Arriva though.
This is a scheme paid for by the Tees Valley Mayor - it won't be operating outside of the Tees Valley area.
(24 Aug 2020, 10:06 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]More stops being added to Tees Flex in the near future
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and.../tees-flex
Billingham Town Centre being one that I've questioned for a good while as being missing.
Interesting addition of East Cleveland to James Cook Hospital for an additional £2 surplus charge - I wonder if something like that could not be offered for destinations in Hartlepool to North Tees Hospital. In addition, note the addition destinations added in Hartlepool.
Seems a bit morally wrong to be adding the surcharge for passengers travelling to hospital - most won't be doing it for leisure purposes after all
(24 Aug 2020, 6:09 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Seems a bit morally wrong to be adding the surcharge for passengers travelling to hospital - most won't be doing it for leisure purposes after all
Also seems a bit wrong to be competing with commercial services using a tendered alternative!
(24 Aug 2020, 10:06 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]More stops being added to Tees Flex in the near future
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and.../tees-flex
Billingham Town Centre being one that I've questioned for a good while as being missing.
Interesting addition of East Cleveland to James Cook Hospital for an additional £2 surplus charge - I wonder if something like that could not be offered for destinations in Hartlepool to North Tees Hospital. In addition, note the addition destinations added in Hartlepool.
Great news - don’t suppose you know when these go live? See the on-demand area has been expanded into West Park in Hartlepool, will be interesting to see how this maps out on the app.
When I trailed Tees Flex head to head with scheduled buses a few weeks ago I sent some feedback to Ben Houchen highlighting how disconnected public transport to North Tees is. Curiously he advocated using Flex and splitting the journey in Wynyard, kind of missing the point about making passenger jump through hoops. Hopefully direct journeys as per this new James Cook connection are made possible soon.
The Flex is a good DRT service but the Mayor’s party wrecked bus services with the 1985 Transport Act . Bus competition fizzled out by the early 1990s.
(24 Aug 2020, 8:09 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]The Flex is a good DRT service but the Mayor’s party wrecked bus services with the 1985 Transport Act . Bus competition fizzled out by the early 1990s.
Good point, everyone who isn’t a shareholder in the big 4 lost out from dereg - most of all the passengers. But I dint think the Mayor can be held too accountable considering he was about a month off being born on deregulation day.
It’d be fantastic to see Bristol REs swinging by every lamppost in Hartlepool but in the real world The Flex is the most positive thing to happen to public transport in the Tees Valley for a decade.
(24 Aug 2020, 8:09 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]The Flex is a good DRT service but the Mayor’s party wrecked bus services with the 1985 Transport Act . Bus competition fizzled out by the early 1990s.
(24 Aug 2020, 8:39 pm)James101 wrote [ -> ]Good point, everyone who isn’t a shareholder in the big 4 lost out from dereg - most of all the passengers. But I dint think the Mayor can be held too accountable considering he was about a month off being born on deregulation day.
It’d be fantastic to see Bristol REs swinging by every lamppost in Hartlepool but in the real world The Flex is the most positive thing to happen to public transport in the Tees Valley for a decade.
It's very hard to blame it all on that. Nottingham and Edinburgh aren't doing no better than anywhere else and they're both council ran and the Tyne and Wear Metro which has been nationalised throughout bar a few years with DB Regio is way below it's 1985 levels and that's with an extension to Sunderland.
There's more to it such as the price of a car dropping and out of town shopping centres (remember the Metro Centre wasn't open then) that's done way more damage.
(24 Aug 2020, 9:02 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's very hard to blame it all on that. Nottingham and Edinburgh aren't doing no better than anywhere else and they're both council ran and the Tyne and Wear Metro which has been nationalised throughout bar a few years with DB Regio is way below it's 1985 levels and that's with an extension to Sunderland.
There's more to it such as the price of a car dropping and out of town shopping centres (remember the Metro Centre wasn't open then) that's done way more damage.
Curious to hear by what measure you think Edinburgh and Nottingham are doing no better than Stagecoach in Hartlepool?
Network population coverage? Passenger satisfaction? Profit? Emissions?
(24 Aug 2020, 9:11 pm)James101 wrote [ -> ]Curious to hear by what measure you think Edinburgh and Nottingham are doing no better than Stagecoach in Hartlepool?
Network population coverage? Passenger satisfaction? Profit? Emissions?
They're two totally different networks for a start, ones an isolated town with multiple operators whereas the other two are in large cities with large areas of monopoly. No-one looks upto Lothian or Nottingham City Transport as the way to run a bus network, they're just more of the same as everyone else.
Lothian vs Stagecoach in Newcastle
Nottingham City Transport vs National Express West Midlands
There's not a big deal between them. There's lots of other factors which will have impacted things much more than who runs the buses. Back in the 1985 supermarkets were rare for starters. Who wants to go shopping on a bus with 10 bags of shopping. That's before you bring in things like online shopping etc. Times have changed but some won't accept that.
To bring it back to Stagecoach in Hartlepool what are exactly meant to do, no-one wants to shop in Hartlepool so people will be shopping at numerous other places not to mention the 3 large supermarkets you have all with car parks, 2 retail parks and a cinema and bingo hall nowhere near the centre. Blame the council for giving planning permission for them.
Also just to add personally I think DRT will be the future of buses in quite a few areas, it would work quite well in some places up in Tyne and Wear imo. North Tyneside for example would be a good spot for it for a replacement of the W1, W2, W3, 59, 335, 359, 41 etc. possibly the 11 aswell. Could give some areas ie. Murton and Briardene a decent service which they don't have atm.
I m old enough to remember the integrated network in T&W , and still think it’s far better than what we have today imo. DRT is good but I have had some scheduled journeys cancelled at the very last minute, resulting in the need for a taxi .
Also , Flex doesn’t operate on a Sunday. - Which on one occasion meant, rather than pay for a taxi , I walked several miles in order to connect with a train.
As a regular up in Edinburgh i have to disagree. The bus service up there is 100% better than anything down here ( from my experience). Great prices, regular buses, real time information that actually works. Clean bus and MOST of the time pleasant drivers.
(25 Aug 2020, 8:17 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]As a regular up in Edinburgh i have to disagree. The bus service up there is 100% better than anything down here ( from my experience). Great prices, regular buses, real time information that actually works. Clean bus and MOST of the time pleasant drivers.
I notice you mention great prices. If you take Lothian and then compare it to say Stagecoach Newcastle with been the main operator in Newcastle and Lothian the main operator in Edinburgh. Fair enough there is others in Newcastle, but there is also First and Stagecoach in the Edinburgh area. I think some people put Lothian in high regard but are they any better than any others.
Lothian Day Ticket - £4.50
Stagecoach Newcastle Day Ticket - £4.30
Lothian Weekly Ticket - £20.00
Stagecoach Newcastle Weekly Ticket - £15.00
Lothian 4 Weekly Ticket - £60.00
Stagecoach Newcastle 4 Weekly Ticket - £57.50
(25 Aug 2020, 8:17 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]As a regular up in Edinburgh i have to disagree. The bus service up there is 100% better than anything down here ( from my experience). Great prices, regular buses, real time information that actually works. Clean bus and MOST of the time pleasant drivers.
I used to complain about real time information regular, but the two apps I use (GNE and Arriva) have actually evolved to the point that it is excellent. The GNE app in particular is extremely easy to use, and probably the best mTicket transport app that I have used - something else that I used to regularly complain about.
I think more passengers would benefit from real time information at bus stops though, rather than just on an app, but there has been very little notable investment in this from the local authorities. The existing screens at bus stations in Tyne and Wear are poorly maintained (Galleries has been off for over a year), so I would have very little faith in Nexus' ability to manage a large network of street infrastructure.
Brighton & Hove is a good example of partnership working to achieve this.
Citaro - you are correct i was thinking more GNE and Arriva. You are comparing to Stagecoach Newcastle.... would you say they both serve the same type/size of area? Plus with the Lothian ticket can you not also use the ( tiny) tram network?
Adrian - i agree with you too. the The appt from GNE has improved.. On several occasions on the old version the bus looked like it was heading to the bus stop but when i arrived and waited ages only to find out from fellow passenger that it hadn't been or it had gone just before I arrived.. Also 90% of bus users can see the real time information. How many have a Smart phone, have the app down loaded and know how to use it? Also in the right place real time information could encourage bus use.
Used this for the first time recently.
Ordered it from Saltburn Station to Guisborough.
It was chucking down, so rushed to the canopy outside the station and saw a bus parked at the main bus stops.
Rushed over, approached bus and found out that it wasn't ours. Driver was freindly enough, pointed out he only had one booking and that was to go to Skelton.
Reminded us of the reg details appearing on the app and waited for his passenger. Seconds later, our vehicle appeared (it was one of the new 69 plates) and we boarded. As MrsC had already paid by PayPal, there wasn't much else for us to do. The driver confirmed we paid and we made our way to our seats.
Got to Guisborough just a few minutes later and off we went.
There was already one vehicle in Guisborough dropping someone off and another pulled in, dropping someone else off.
Didn't use the USB ports and thought the seats were reasonably comfortable (not luxurious at all) for the trip.
The trip cost £4.50 - which is cheaper than a taxi.
I can't help feeling that even in these times of social distancing, that the service could be used in a more cost effective manner.
Sticking us on the bus which went to Skelton and having it continue down the road would have added 5mins to the journey.
The buses arriving either side of us in to Guisborough, can't have come that far bearing in mind the size of the zone. Could loads have been consolidated from these 4 vehicles on to fewer?
(24 Aug 2020, 8:09 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]The Flex is a good DRT service but the Mayor’s party wrecked bus services with the 1985 Transport Act . Bus competition fizzled out by the early 1990s.
Well there was no competition before the Transport Act.
Yes Robin, but the Transport Act of 1985 was supposed to create competition - where is that competition now. ? If I don’t rate Asda , I can go to Morrisons or Tesco or Sainsbury or Co-Op etc. If you live in Dene Estate , only the 23, for example.
All the Act did , was break a very integrated transport system. I m sadly old enough to remember pre 1986, but what I do remember, (and I have seen pre 1986 timetables), is that there was a regular service across day, night and Sunday. I know that factors like car ownership etc are important , but I still believe pre 1986 was better.
The early years of competition was exciting eg TWOC , but as I said earlier, competition fizzled out. I remember when TWOC did an 18/19 service copy, but terminating at Tunstall Rd. For me, that took me bk to the PTE 121/122 route which was a child hood favourite. Sorry , I m rambling now, but I do miss the old integrated routes, Transfares, 5 Rider Carnets, going to the PTE travel shop at the Central Bus Station etc .,
(27 Aug 2020, 10:27 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Used this for the first time recently.
Ordered it from Saltburn Station to Guisborough.
It was chucking down, so rushed to the canopy outside the station and saw a bus parked at the main bus stops.
Rushed over, approached bus and found out that it wasn't ours. Driver was freindly enough, pointed out he only had one booking and that was to go to Skelton.
Reminded us of the reg details appearing on the app and waited for his passenger. Seconds later, our vehicle appeared (it was one of the new 69 plates) and we boarded. As MrsC had already paid by PayPal, there wasn't much else for us to do. The driver confirmed we paid and we made our way to our seats.
Got to Guisborough just a few minutes later and off we went.
There was already one vehicle in Guisborough dropping someone off and another pulled in, dropping someone else off.
Didn't use the USB ports and thought the seats were reasonably comfortable (not luxurious at all) for the trip.
The trip cost £4.50 - which is cheaper than a taxi.
I can't help feeling that even in these times of social distancing, that the service could be used in a more cost effective manner.
Sticking us on the bus which went to Skelton and having it continue down the road would have added 5mins to the journey.
The buses arriving either side of us in to Guisborough, can't have come that far bearing in mind the size of the zone. Could loads have been consolidated from these 4 vehicles on to fewer?
Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
(28 Aug 2020, 6:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
It seems to be either 7 or 8 operational in one go, but it still works out to about 2 pax per hour, per bus which isn’t a huge amount but not bad by DRT standards.
(28 Aug 2020, 6:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Strange one that. You'd think their system would have combined those two journeys into one, as you suggest.
I actually wonder how profitable the service is, if they're looking to expand it further. I noticed that Houchen was quoted in the press stating an average of around 1,070 a week, but that doesn't sound very healthy in the grand scheme of things. I was trying to work out some numbers on it.
I've no idea how many of the 11 vehicles are on the road at once, but assuming:
- an estimated 9 vehicles on the road at one time
- an estimated average of £12 an hour to run
- an estimated average that each vehicle is out for 10 hours a day
...would cost £1,080 a day or £6,480 a week to run.
If your average fare of those 1,070 passengers a week was £3, you'd still only gross £3,210 a week. In reality its going to be a lot less than that, depending on what rebate they receive for concessions. I'd suggest its nowhere near £3 though.
Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 wrote [ -> ]Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
Whilst I agree that the system is very unlikely to turn a profit, there are still ways it can be managed and operated in a more efficient manner.
The examples I referred to, can't be the only times something similar has happened.
What might be a weakness in the booking system, has the potential to make any loss even greater.
The service has stepped in to fill the gaps left over after commercial operators decided there wasn't enough brass.
I applaud the idea of the network - but I'm not sure it should exist in the first place.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 wrote [ -> ]Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
Is it an effective replacement though? The Mayor's own numbers would suggest that less than 100 people a day are using it, if you assume that the majority are making a return trip - less than 0.02% of the population of the Tees Valley.
If its not intended to be profitable, then in my opinion that has to be countered by showing there's a clear benefit of providing the service. I really hope that this becomes really popular and well used, but based on those numbers so far, I'm yet to be convinced whether it'll last beyond the initial 3 year contract.
(29 Aug 2020, 7:23 am)James101 wrote [ -> ]Is it’s purpose ever to become profitable? Tees Flex is an effective replacement for most of the Boroughbus network. Is Flex instead of having a supported network of scheduled services, which the Tees Valley has none (bar the handful of journeys about to come in from Arriva)?
Personally, I’d measure its success by comparing passenger engagement on Tees Flex versus the same amount on money spent on supporting scheduled buses.
Yes its supposed to make a profit as the combined authority are only supporting it for 3 years. The idea then is for stagecoach or whoever to take it on commercially. I had several arguments on a local politics group with the Hartlepool Council leader last year pointing out that it wont work and so far that seems to be the case.
(29 Aug 2020, 10:20 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Whilst I agree that the system is very unlikely to turn a profit, there are still ways it can be managed and operated in a more efficient manner.
The examples I referred to, can't be the only times something similar has happened.
What might be a weakness in the booking system, has the potential to make any loss even greater.
The service has stepped in to fill the gaps left over after commercial operators decided there wasn't enough brass.
I applaud the idea of the network - but I'm not sure it should exist in the first place.
I totally agree the system should be as efficient as possible. I’m not technologically minded by any means but perhaps there’s a settling-in period for the software to ‘learn’ frequently made journeys and it’ll eventually link them all up? For the odd inefficient journey now, it surely must be cheaper than employing human coordinators.
(29 Aug 2020, 11:16 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Is it an effective replacement though? The Mayor's own numbers would suggest that less than 100 people a day are using it, if you assume that the majority are making a return trip - less than 0.02% of the population of the Tees Valley.
If its not intended to be profitable, then in my opinion that has to be countered by showing there's a clear benefit of providing the service. I really hope that this becomes really popular and well used, but based on those numbers so far, I'm yet to be convinced whether it'll last beyond the initial 3 year contract.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1...opularity/
The press release for this weeks expansion pegs the passenger numbers more like 180 per day and rising. As a bus service that’s not worth putting the bunting up for. But as a dial-a-ride or community transport organisation, about 20 passengers per bus a day is pretty good for a start up.
It comes back to wether we, or the powers that be, see profit as money in the bank or overall community asset value.
It’s also handy that Flex directly benefits a demographic that would be sceptical of a Tory Metro Mayor and Mr Houchen is keen to be photographed with a Flex Sprinter and every opportunity. Whatever the motives, if it gets people where they need to be, I’m all for it.
(30 Aug 2020, 5:39 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]Yes its supposed to make a profit as the combined authority are only supporting it for 3 years. The idea then is for stagecoach or whoever to take it on commercially. I had several arguments on a local politics group with the Hartlepool Council leader last year pointing out that it wont work and so far that seems to be the case.
Based on the numbers we know, those Sprinters need to be pulling in about £30 an hour to break even. Not sure who on the council thinks that Flex will ever turn a profit but they’re deluded. That said I wouldn’t be surprised to see Councillor Pinocchio win a seat at HBC next time around.
What could be interesting is the MD of Stagecoach NE referencing Flex as ‘what the future could look like’:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teess...s-18480241
App has been updated for the extended network on Tuesday. Just for fun(?!) I've roughly copied scheduled bus services over the map in red and marked out in black areas which are more than 400m from both a scheduled buses and Tees Flex zone. Seeing how much of the town now has access to public transport I'm very cautiously optimistic for Hartlepool. What would be great is a promotional campaign that presents Stagecoach buses and Flex as an integrated service - live along a bus line, flat fare £1.80, pay the driver. Live in a Flex zone, get on the app, pay however is easier for you. You could even request a flex to take you to an interchange zone like Tees Bay or Queens Meadowfor longer journeys onto the 1, 36 or Arriva services northbound.
Not sure if this is possible as public-private partnership set-up but it would be better for everyone.