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(26 Jan 2022, 11:05 am)Storx Honestly, I'm not sure it is. The tenders out now are much better than what was being proposed imo. They've removed most of the short useless routes from allover pretty much now and replaced them with longer connected services creating links that people actually want.
I slag Nexus off a lot but the changes (excluding their subsidised) are mostly positive really. It seems like they've actually tried to make routes that people actually want to use rather than routes because of they've 'always been there'.
(26 Jan 2022, 11:05 am)Storx Honestly, I'm not sure it is. The tenders out now are much better than what was being proposed imo. They've removed most of the short useless routes from allover pretty much now and replaced them with longer connected services creating links that people actually want.
I slag Nexus off a lot but the changes (excluding their subsidised) are mostly positive really. It seems like they've actually tried to make routes that people actually want to use rather than routes because of they've 'always been there'.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:32 pm)Dan I think that's a question beyond anyone's ability on this forum to answer.
We can discuss and debate the possible reasons why, but we'll never know. Andreos regularly gives his thoughts on this subject - perhaps he's right, maybe he's wrong and it's other things at play.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:32 pm)Dan I think that's a question beyond anyone's ability on this forum to answer.
We can discuss and debate the possible reasons why, but we'll never know. Andreos regularly gives his thoughts on this subject - perhaps he's right, maybe he's wrong and it's other things at play.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Bazza The question is why?
What was GNE doing wrong? Does it show that all the gimmicks (Branded routes, constant rebranding, fares, special routes, hi spec buses etc etc) made no positive difference whatsoever to the bottom line of the balance sheet? Perhaps even had the opposite effects due to the extra costs incurred.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:33 pm)OrangeArrow49 Is their still going to be a bus at Kingston Park like the 42A? , and is the Q3 getting curtailed at St Peters?
All of the services I use are getting destroyed - 42A, Q3, X84/X85. Hopefully the 74 survives.
Interested to see what the new fares will be, and hopefully they are still good.
Might be Arriva for me in the future for North Tyneside, GNE for Gateshead and Durham.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Bazza The question is why?
What was GNE doing wrong? Does it show that all the gimmicks (Branded routes, constant rebranding, fares, special routes, hi spec buses etc etc) made no positive difference whatsoever to the bottom line of the balance sheet? Perhaps even had the opposite effects due to the extra costs incurred.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:33 pm)OrangeArrow49 Is their still going to be a bus at Kingston Park like the 42A? , and is the Q3 getting curtailed at St Peters?
All of the services I use are getting destroyed - 42A, Q3, X84/X85. Hopefully the 74 survives.
Interested to see what the new fares will be, and hopefully they are still good.
Might be Arriva for me in the future for North Tyneside, GNE for Gateshead and Durham.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:22 pm)DaveFromUpNorth Battlehill does have a good pick up usage however getting rid of 41 and 41A through Battlehill or removing the service altogether would be criminal as that is the only link to Wallsend even if the evening services are currently contracted as a secure service and often fails to operate the service.
A few older residents need this service for access to Wallsend, the service allows staff to go to work at the many care homes dotted around the route.
You also have to think in 2022 there is a new urgent care centre being opened in Wallsend and this current service provides a major link from Hadrian Park Battlehill High Farm.
There current 553 although goes to Battlehill doesn't actually operate past Lidl and the shops a quick drive past the shops to the Buzz Bingo and back and battlehill drive could create more passengers for a nexus secured contract wether its for Bingo, B and Q Smyths toy shop before heading back along Battlehill you then create a link to Wallsend.
It also means you can get off say the 306 309 310 311 and not move bus stops to get a link to Freeman Hospital etc . . .
(26 Jan 2022, 2:22 pm)DaveFromUpNorth Battlehill does have a good pick up usage however getting rid of 41 and 41A through Battlehill or removing the service altogether would be criminal as that is the only link to Wallsend even if the evening services are currently contracted as a secure service and often fails to operate the service.
A few older residents need this service for access to Wallsend, the service allows staff to go to work at the many care homes dotted around the route.
You also have to think in 2022 there is a new urgent care centre being opened in Wallsend and this current service provides a major link from Hadrian Park Battlehill High Farm.
There current 553 although goes to Battlehill doesn't actually operate past Lidl and the shops a quick drive past the shops to the Buzz Bingo and back and battlehill drive could create more passengers for a nexus secured contract wether its for Bingo, B and Q Smyths toy shop before heading back along Battlehill you then create a link to Wallsend.
It also means you can get off say the 306 309 310 311 and not move bus stops to get a link to Freeman Hospital etc . . .
(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).
Not sure there's much you could really do with some of the routes realistically as there's just not the demand and over the years they've butchered the network to a level where there's literally nothing left to butcher.
It doesn't help there's the Metro / Arriva and SNE dominating most their areas neither with the routes you realistically want.
I replied to the PM you sent but can't say too much. There's still services over there though.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).
Not sure there's much you could really do with some of the routes realistically as there's just not the demand and over the years they've butchered the network to a level where there's literally nothing left to butcher.
It doesn't help there's the Metro / Arriva and SNE dominating most their areas neither with the routes you realistically want.
I replied to the PM you sent but can't say too much. There's still services over there though.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).
Not sure there's much you could really do with some of the routes realistically as there's just not the demand and over the years they've butchered the network to a level where there's literally nothing left to butcher.
It doesn't help there's the Metro / Arriva and SNE dominating most their areas neither with the routes you realistically want.
I replied to the PM you sent but can't say too much. There's still services over there though.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).
Not sure there's much you could really do with some of the routes realistically as there's just not the demand and over the years they've butchered the network to a level where there's literally nothing left to butcher.
It doesn't help there's the Metro / Arriva and SNE dominating most their areas neither with the routes you realistically want.
I replied to the PM you sent but can't say too much. There's still services over there though.
(26 Jan 2022, 3:35 pm)Bazza ANE and Stagecoach have kept there routes more or less stable. It has been mentioned that Arriva have made cuts, but these have been frequency reductions rather than routes being curtailed, diverted or stopped. it seems like GNE chop and change very quickly. How many different brands have there been in the last few years?
(26 Jan 2022, 3:35 pm)Bazza ANE and Stagecoach have kept there routes more or less stable. It has been mentioned that Arriva have made cuts, but these have been frequency reductions rather than routes being curtailed, diverted or stopped. it seems like GNE chop and change very quickly. How many different brands have there been in the last few years?
(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).Stagecoach South Shields also have some good loadings, granted that it is a day time, pretty much falls apart in the evening.
(26 Jan 2022, 2:59 pm)Storx Probably more to do with the routes imo. Arriva and Stagecoach have some very strong corridors (X10/X11/X21/X22/X15/X18/306/308/6/7/63/64/X93/1: Arriva), (1/39/40/62/63 and so on: SNE). Apart from the 20, 21, 56, 60 and X1. There's nothing that really stands out in terms of making a fortune. On the otherhand they have some very weak routes, (82/83/11/42/42A/5/26/28/29/Peterlee locals).Stagecoach South Shields also have some good loadings, granted that it is a day time, pretty much falls apart in the evening.
(26 Jan 2022, 3:55 pm)Storx Yeah totally agreed and it helps imo as it means people know what they're getting but with some tweaks here and there to help people get around; 22 to Cobalt for example. Obvious some would say they're stuck in a network from 10 year ago which is probably true aswell and don't go where they want to go but it's a risk changing things as if it goes wrong then people won't be too keen to return.I think the SNE network works as it does, cos it doesn't take someone an hour plus to get to work or the shops.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in County Durham if similar cuts are made as the council down there aren't as open as subsidising things as Nexus are in general.
(26 Jan 2022, 3:55 pm)Storx Yeah totally agreed and it helps imo as it means people know what they're getting but with some tweaks here and there to help people get around; 22 to Cobalt for example. Obvious some would say they're stuck in a network from 10 year ago which is probably true aswell and don't go where they want to go but it's a risk changing things as if it goes wrong then people won't be too keen to return.I think the SNE network works as it does, cos it doesn't take someone an hour plus to get to work or the shops.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in County Durham if similar cuts are made as the council down there aren't as open as subsidising things as Nexus are in general.
(26 Jan 2022, 5:44 pm)Andreos1 I've kept quiet on these rumoured changes on purpose. It's well documented what I think GNE do and don't need to do. They're seemingly sticking with the slashing method and I'm not convinced it's the right method.What do you think they should be going?
(26 Jan 2022, 7:41 pm)Omega54 Passengers are back at 70%, 25% of that is concessionary passes, nexus is slashing that to 5%, so realistic GNE revenue is going to drop by 20%.
That is ridiculous.
(26 Jan 2022, 7:41 pm)Omega54 Passengers are back at 70%, 25% of that is concessionary passes, nexus is slashing that to 5%, so realistic GNE revenue is going to drop by 20%.
That is ridiculous.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:13 pm)streetdeckfan I don't follow, Nexus are reducing the concessionary rate by 20%, so if that's 25% of GNE's revenue, then it would be 20% of 25%, so their revenue would only drop by 5%?
(26 Jan 2022, 8:13 pm)streetdeckfan I don't follow, Nexus are reducing the concessionary rate by 20%, so if that's 25% of GNE's revenue, then it would be 20% of 25%, so their revenue would only drop by 5%?Oh sorry, I withdraw my comment, I thought he meant reducing it by 20% to 5%, 5% is still a massive percentage.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:13 pm)streetdeckfan I don't follow, Nexus are reducing the concessionary rate by 20%, so if that's 25% of GNE's revenue, then it would be 20% of 25%, so their revenue would only drop by 5%?Oh sorry, I withdraw my comment, I thought he meant reducing it by 20% to 5%, 5% is still a massive percentage.
(26 Jan 2022, 7:30 pm)Omega54 What do you think they should be going?
(26 Jan 2022, 7:30 pm)Omega54 What do you think they should be going?
(26 Jan 2022, 8:23 pm)Omega54 Oh sorry, I withdraw my comment, I thought he meant reducing it by 20% to 5%, 5% is still a massive percentage.
Company make 50 million (pre pandemic), 2022, 70% which is 35 million, drop that by 5%, now down to 30 million.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:23 pm)Omega54 Oh sorry, I withdraw my comment, I thought he meant reducing it by 20% to 5%, 5% is still a massive percentage.
Company make 50 million (pre pandemic), 2022, 70% which is 35 million, drop that by 5%, now down to 30 million.
The Coast Road is a funny one. Whilst the 306/308 have been stable, GNE have seriously upped their game on the 309/310/311 since 2013 and certainly 2016 onwards.
If anything other than minor changes, I see no reductions to the 309/310/311 as at most, a PVR of 3x would be saved unless GNE made very deep cuts. And given Arriva's potential circmstances (Jesmond Depot) and the need to review and streamline things, GNE would be wise to take advantage of that unless BSIP actually comes in.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:40 pm)busmanT Which company made 50 million what pre pandemic?It was purely a example.
Go North East published accounts show a profit for the year ended 30 June 2019 of £2.85 million.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:35 pm)Malarkey Elsewhere how many times has the Washington Mini Bus Ops been changed, is it still Simply Washington, Washington Street Shuttle, Indigo or Links Pinks, it's had that many changes even i'm getting lost as to whether it is 2022 or if i've time travelled back to 2006, the Venture Network in Stanley and Consett and the 33 in Sunderland are other examples I can think of straight off the top of my head, the developing pattern here has been established that as an Operator when it comes to services changes the same mistakes are made time and time again at Go North East, for me whoever makes those decisions really should be held accountable as they have played a major role the damage to the network we see today.In fairness the 33, is very busy most times. Well whenever I see, I do believe that does turn a profit.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:40 pm)busmanT Which company made 50 million what pre pandemic?It was purely a example.
Go North East published accounts show a profit for the year ended 30 June 2019 of £2.85 million.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:35 pm)Malarkey Elsewhere how many times has the Washington Mini Bus Ops been changed, is it still Simply Washington, Washington Street Shuttle, Indigo or Links Pinks, it's had that many changes even i'm getting lost as to whether it is 2022 or if i've time travelled back to 2006, the Venture Network in Stanley and Consett and the 33 in Sunderland are other examples I can think of straight off the top of my head, the developing pattern here has been established that as an Operator when it comes to services changes the same mistakes are made time and time again at Go North East, for me whoever makes those decisions really should be held accountable as they have played a major role the damage to the network we see today.In fairness the 33, is very busy most times. Well whenever I see, I do believe that does turn a profit.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm)L469 YVK The Coast Road is a funny one. Whilst the 306/308 have been stable, GNE have seriously upped their game on the 309/310/311 since 2013 and certainly 2016 onwards.The EP will sort the Coast Road. It will be rationalised I suspect by the summer.
If anything other than minor changes, I see no reductions to the 309/310/311 as at most, a PVR of 3x would be saved unless GNE made very deep cuts. And given Arriva's potential circmstances (Jesmond Depot) and the need to review and streamline things, GNE would be wise to take advantage of that unless BSIP actually comes in.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm)L469 YVK The Coast Road is a funny one. Whilst the 306/308 have been stable, GNE have seriously upped their game on the 309/310/311 since 2013 and certainly 2016 onwards.The EP will sort the Coast Road. It will be rationalised I suspect by the summer.
If anything other than minor changes, I see no reductions to the 309/310/311 as at most, a PVR of 3x would be saved unless GNE made very deep cuts. And given Arriva's potential circmstances (Jesmond Depot) and the need to review and streamline things, GNE would be wise to take advantage of that unless BSIP actually comes in.
(26 Jan 2022, 5:44 pm)Andreos1 I think the SNE network works as it does, cos it doesn't take someone an hour plus to get to work or the shops.
They can get from a - b pretty easily.
Using Newcastle as an example.
Newburn to Quorum.
Killingworth to the Business Park... You get the gist.
The footprint of the network is pretty small vs ANE or GNE and if someone does need to change buses, they're not sitting there for the best part of an hour on the first leg.
It's stable because it works.
However, when you compare it to Shields, Sunderland and Hartlepool, I'm not sure I am of the same opinion.
I've kept quiet on these rumoured changes on purpose. It's well documented what I think GNE do and don't need to do. They're seemingly sticking with the slashing method and I'm not convinced it's the right method.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:23 pm)Omega54 Oh sorry, I withdraw my comment, I thought he meant reducing it by 20% to 5%, 5% is still a massive percentage.
Company make 50 million (pre pandemic), 2022, 70% which is 35 million, drop that by 5%, now down to 30 million.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm)L469 YVK The Coast Road is a funny one. Whilst the 306/308 have been stable, GNE have seriously upped their game on the 309/310/311 since 2013 and certainly 2016 onwards.
If anything other than minor changes, I see no reductions to the 309/310/311 as at most, a PVR of 3x would be saved unless GNE made very deep cuts. And given Arriva's potential circmstances (Jesmond Depot) and the need to review and streamline things, GNE would be wise to take advantage of that unless BSIP actually comes in.
(26 Jan 2022, 5:44 pm)Andreos1 I think the SNE network works as it does, cos it doesn't take someone an hour plus to get to work or the shops.
They can get from a - b pretty easily.
Using Newcastle as an example.
Newburn to Quorum.
Killingworth to the Business Park... You get the gist.
The footprint of the network is pretty small vs ANE or GNE and if someone does need to change buses, they're not sitting there for the best part of an hour on the first leg.
It's stable because it works.
However, when you compare it to Shields, Sunderland and Hartlepool, I'm not sure I am of the same opinion.
I've kept quiet on these rumoured changes on purpose. It's well documented what I think GNE do and don't need to do. They're seemingly sticking with the slashing method and I'm not convinced it's the right method.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:23 pm)Omega54 Oh sorry, I withdraw my comment, I thought he meant reducing it by 20% to 5%, 5% is still a massive percentage.
Company make 50 million (pre pandemic), 2022, 70% which is 35 million, drop that by 5%, now down to 30 million.
(26 Jan 2022, 8:50 pm)L469 YVK The Coast Road is a funny one. Whilst the 306/308 have been stable, GNE have seriously upped their game on the 309/310/311 since 2013 and certainly 2016 onwards.
If anything other than minor changes, I see no reductions to the 309/310/311 as at most, a PVR of 3x would be saved unless GNE made very deep cuts. And given Arriva's potential circmstances (Jesmond Depot) and the need to review and streamline things, GNE would be wise to take advantage of that unless BSIP actually comes in.
(26 Jan 2022, 9:05 pm)RobinHood The EP will sort the Coast Road. It will be rationalised I suspect by the summer.To be honest, Arriva & GNE jointly operating the 308 & 309 (as they did with the 308 before 2008) would be the ideal scenario with a combined frequency along common sections of routes.
Unfortunately Qualifying Agreements aren't quick though, as you need to tick quite a few legal boxes.
Operators will be focused on sorting their immediate financial concerns first I suspect.
(26 Jan 2022, 9:05 pm)RobinHood The EP will sort the Coast Road. It will be rationalised I suspect by the summer.To be honest, Arriva & GNE jointly operating the 308 & 309 (as they did with the 308 before 2008) would be the ideal scenario with a combined frequency along common sections of routes.
Unfortunately Qualifying Agreements aren't quick though, as you need to tick quite a few legal boxes.
Operators will be focused on sorting their immediate financial concerns first I suspect.
