North East Buses

Aren't they all supposed to be friend now??

(07 Nov 2023, 8:55 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I'm really surprised at Stagecoach in particular. It'd only take a finite amount of resource to say put the 100 back on between Newcastle and Metrocentre, even on a much-reduced half hour frequency, but they and Arriva just don't seem bothered. Despite train currently being the only sensible option between the two. It's another example of why the deregulated market doesn't work.

I've thought about this for a while to be honest and the only thing I can think of for them not doing it - is the time and effort to sort resource out vs the actual duration of the strike. 

They could spend weeks planning and preparing, only for the strike to end a day after starting the service. 

I applaud City for taking on the risk of running the C4 and wish them all the luck in the world BTW. 
It could be almost a repeat of the Redby v GNE bus war when GNE return?

(07 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Risky for Stagecoach to do anything as they need to be careful as there's no doubt going to be big questions why both GoNorthEast and Arriva are both being a paid an extra pound for doing the same job.

They've already had 2 strikes over pay, and I wouldn't be surprised it's the last. Those routes on West Road would be a nice little earner to compensate for the 20 GNE lost, for example.

Personally, I'd play it safe aswell, but then again I'm generally quite risk averse on stuff like that.

Now I am surprised that Arriva and Stagecoach haven't gone on a big viral advertising campaign and aren't poaching extremely unhappy GNE drivers with a decent bonus for signing up etc.

I don't understand your connection between driver pay and registering a bus route? 

Stagecoach *have* gone on a recruitment campaign; they're offering a £1000 bonus to qualified drivers... https://stagecoach.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com...us-_JR6143

(07 Nov 2023, 9:35 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I don't understand your connection between driver pay and registering a bus route? 

Stagecoach *have* gone on a recruitment campaign; they're offering a £1000 bonus to qualified drivers... https://stagecoach.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com...us-_JR6143

It's ended that now, ended last week if I'm right.

Just risky to be jumping on other corridors when your house has it's own issues. If you suddenly go tits up, and that results in strikes, which has already happened. Then is it worth losing you're core corridors because you jumped in.

If you're house was in perfect order and there's no risks of strikes etc, then maybe an expansion plan might be an idea.

(07 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Risky for Stagecoach to do anything as they need to be careful as there's no doubt going to be big questions why both GoNorthEast and Arriva are both being a paid an extra pound for doing the same job.

They've already had 2 strikes over pay, and I wouldn't be surprised it's the last. Those routes on West Road would be a nice little earner to compensate for the 20 GNE lost, for example.

Personally, I'd play it safe aswell, but then again I'm generally quite risk averse on stuff like that.

Now I am surprised that Arriva and Stagecoach haven't gone on a big viral advertising campaign and aren't poaching extremely unhappy GNE drivers with a decent bonus for signing up etc.

BIB - Can't see Arriva or Stagecoach drivers going on strike (or any others). What routes on West Road? Little earner for who, GNE or an independent? 20 what GNE lost, services?

(07 Nov 2023, 9:50 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]BIB - Can't see Arriva or Stagecoach drivers going on strike (or any others). What routes on West Road? Little earner for who, GNE or an independent? 20 what GNE lost, services?

I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

(07 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

Really they should take the GNE Union approach and negotiate as one, not separately. Theyre all due a pay rise soon, I defo know Sunderland is. 

Isnt Darlington paid like £12.12

(07 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

I'm aware of the pay differences across the depots - and it's fair pay, because it's based on revenue. Newcastle is a successful network.

GNE would never be interested in taking on Stagecoach routes in South Tyneside or Newcastle. 

Arriva Northumbria is more profitable than Arriva Durham County I believe. Plus with I-Squared Capital having bought Arriva, I expect there will be rebrands, new services and pay changes anyway.

EDIT - To add, there might well be disputes at Arriva or Stagecoach over pay, but I don't think it will involve strikes. GNE on strike is the worst because they are massive and lots of communities are cut off, Arriva Northumbria on strike would hit Northumberland and obviously Stagecoach in Shields would only affect Stagecoach in Shields.

(07 Nov 2023, 10:03 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Really they should take the GNE Union approach and negotiate as one, not separately. Theyre all due a pay rise soon, I defo know Sunderland is. 

Isnt Darlington paid like £12.12

Aye agreed, it just asks for trouble with why is x paid more than y strikes and it's happened twice now with Stagecoach pretty much.

£13.52 according to this - https://uk.indeed.com/q-arriva-l-darling...80ac65ce9f, seems like all of Arriva Durham County are doing it together now as they're all on the same.

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(07 Nov 2023, 10:07 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]I'm aware of the pay differences across the depots - and it's fair pay, because it's based on revenue. Newcastle is a successful network.

GNE would never be interested in taking on Stagecoach routes in South Tyneside or Newcastle. 

Arriva Northumbria is more profitable than Arriva Durham County I believe. Plus with I-Squared Capital having bought Arriva, I expect there will be rebrands, new services and pay changes anyway.

Staff and unions don't care about revenue though as they seem to be on a right go lately. They'll just see we're paid £13.08, they're on £13.52. Right we want £13.52... Everything else goes out the window there.

Actually believe Arriva Durham County is usually more profitable than Arriva Northumbria though. Arriva is strong in Stockton, Darlington and the X's in Redcar. The 8 (Stockton), 15 (Stockton) and 63 (Redcar) outside the Newcastle stagecoach routes are the most frequent single bus route in the North East now, if I'm right.

Who knows though, it's all speculation that though.

Ridiculous nobody has put a Metrocentre service on

Good on City Transport for doing this in the short term, would've thought though Nexus would've at least came up with a plan to have Independent Operators from across the region step in to plug in gaps with an "Hourly Skeleton Service" like we seen down in Manchester not so long ago.

Even as temporary measure ask Arriva/Stagecoach to reduce frequencies on some services to free up resources to plug the gaps as to be honest some run virtually empty due how frequent services are, one idea off the back of someone mentioning MetroCentre-Newcastle you could have SNE extend the 6/7 to Central Station stopping at all stops in between.

I would also suggest due to severe overcrowding on the Metro as a result of the "GNE Strike" that Nexus set up a "Support Bus Service" between Heworth & Newcastle City Centre as I have personally witnessed extreme overcrowding on services particularly last Saturday after the Newcastle Match, I was lucky to even get off at Gateshead Metro as the train I was on cleared full platforms at both Monument & Central Station essentially resulting in two full Metrocar loads on just one train, I also seen as we departed Monument someone had been injured on the platform and was being attended to by paramedics probably as a result of the latter.

(07 Nov 2023, 10:32 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]I would also suggest due to severe overcrowding on the Metro as a result of the "GNE Strike" that Nexus set up a "Support Bus Service" between Heworth & Newcastle City Centre as I have personally witnessed extreme overcrowding on services particularly last Saturday after the Newcastle Match, I was lucky to even get off at Gateshead Metro as the train I was on cleared full platforms at both Monument & Central Station essentially resulting in two full Metrocar loads on just one train, I also seen as we departed Monument someone had been injured on the platform and was being attended to by paramedics probably as a result of the latter.

Not sure that'll be possible now as there's problems at Nexus aswell with the engineers planning to go on strike and are currently on an over time ban. I know they're employed by Stadler but running bus corridors to get around that will be a complete grey area, if not just outright illegal.

(07 Nov 2023, 10:12 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Ridiculous nobody has put a Metrocentre service on

Why, contingency is there with Northern Rail from Newcastle

67 GCT from parts of Gateshead

6/7 Stagecoach from West of Newcastle

There are plenty of areas that have nothing at all.

Ive said before ive staff unable to get to work from areas and they cannot afford not to work, but cant work from home 

It was on news other day that businesses feel like they are back in lockdown and if things dont improve, may possibly close down 

Apologies if you think im ranting and feel free to move to another topic

(07 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

I think the difference being if SNE or ANE did go on strike, it would likely be professionally handled by grown ups and resolved in a reasonable amount of time.  Have either of those operators or their predecessors caused an indefinite strike like the clowns at GNE are presiding over and arguably perpetuating with their inflammatory messaging?  I know there have been strikes of course but I can't recall anything on this scale with any of the operators, since probably the Northern strikes in the late 80s and even then don't think they dragged on like this.

GNE are leaving their network wide open for anyone to have a pretty low risk swipe at currently (and customer loyalty likely gained faster than would otherwise ever likely be feasible, helped of course by the current toxicity of the GNE "brand").  The fact no one is stepping in to 'compete' when the monopoliser is down shows the extent to which deregulation has utterly failed.

(07 Nov 2023, 11:27 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]I think the difference being if SNE or ANE did go on strike, it would likely be professionally handled by grown ups and resolved in a reasonable amount of time.  Have either of those operators or their predecessors caused an indefinite strike like the clowns at GNE are presiding over and arguably perpetuating with their inflammatory messaging?  I know there have been strikes of course but I can't recall anything on this scale with any of the operators, since probably the Northern strikes in the late 80s and even then don't think they dragged on like this.

GNE are leaving their network wide open for anyone to have a pretty low risk swipe at currently (and customer loyalty likely gained faster than would otherwise ever likely be feasible, helped of course by the current toxicity of the GNE "brand").  The fact no one is stepping in to 'compete' when the monopoliser is down shows the extent to which deregulation has utterly failed.

Aye fair points mind, but Arriva Yorkshire, who are technically the same management, had an indefinite strike last year which lasted 4 weeks and was a bit of a shambles.

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-event...-pay-offer - That's the end one for it.

Didn't the Stagecoach Teesside strike last a couple weeks aswell, sure it did.

(07 Nov 2023, 11:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye fair points mind, but Arriva Yorkshire, who are technically the same management, had an indefinite strike last year which lasted 4 weeks and was a bit of a shambles.

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-event...-pay-offer - That's the end one for it.

Didn't the Stagecoach Teesside strike last a couple weeks aswell, sure it did.

Not sure tbh - most of the strikes up here have seemed to be a week or two if that and don't forget we've already had two individual weeks and then a further almost two weeks of no service from GNE in the last 6 weeks, and plenty more to come it seems.  Definitely feels like this is on a different scale, more amenable to competitors (if only there were any viable ones) getting a foothold.

Interesting thought that if talks have been unsuccessful is for Unite and GNE to compromise.

The compromisation would be is that members aka drivers will return to work and drive and operate buses but will be unable to accept cash or card payments or use the ticket machines button functions except to register a new service journey/duty route to enable real data for feeds etc for the benefit of customers and management to monitor timekeeping performance.

In brief....

No driver to accept any cash
No driver to accept card payments

If they arrive at the end destination 4 min late the bus leaves 4 min late on its next journey

Union members are allowed to place a sign over the ticket machine to state sorry this ticket machine is on strike today and your journey today on this service is free of charge

That is a compromise

(08 Nov 2023, 11:02 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Interesting  thought that if talks have been unsuccessful is for Unite and GNE to compromise.

The compromisation would be is that members aka drivers will return to work and drive and operate buses  but will be unable to accept cash or card payments or use the ticket machines button functions except to register a new service journey/duty route to enable real data for feeds etc for the benefit of customers and management to monitor timekeeping performance.

In brief....

No driver to accept any cash
No driver to accept card payments

If they arrive at the end destination 4 min late  the bus leaves 4 min late on its next journey

Union members are allowed to place a sign over the ticket machine to state sorry this ticket machine is on strike today and your journey today on this service is free of charge

That is a compromise

Unfortunately strikes like that are illegal in the UK

(08 Nov 2023, 11:02 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Interesting  thought that if talks have been unsuccessful is for Unite and GNE to compromise.

The compromisation would be is that members aka drivers will return to work and drive and operate buses  but will be unable to accept cash or card payments or use the ticket machines button functions except to register a new service journey/duty route to enable real data for feeds etc for the benefit of customers and management to monitor timekeeping performance.

In brief....

No driver to accept any cash
No driver to accept card payments

If they arrive at the end destination 4 min late  the bus leaves 4 min late on its next journey

Union members are allowed to place a sign over the ticket machine to state sorry this ticket machine is on strike today and your journey today on this service is free of charge

That is a compromise

Surely the strike now would be better for GNE. Not much of a compromise, we want paid but we're not taking any revenue.

Mind I can see why they're banned as it's a right black hole. New PS6's are coming out next week, right lads let's go on strike so we can go to work and sell PS6's without taking any cash to our mates. Just the same really, as stupid as that sounds.

(08 Nov 2023, 11:02 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Interesting  thought that if talks have been unsuccessful is for Unite and GNE to compromise.

The compromisation would be is that members aka drivers will return to work and drive and operate buses  but will be unable to accept cash or card payments or use the ticket machines button functions except to register a new service journey/duty route to enable real data for feeds etc for the benefit of customers and management to monitor timekeeping performance.

In brief....

No driver to accept any cash
No driver to accept card payments

If they arrive at the end destination 4 min late  the bus leaves 4 min late on its next journey

Union members are allowed to place a sign over the ticket machine to state sorry this ticket machine is on strike today and your journey today on this service is free of charge

That is a compromise

I think you've just described TfL Bus Drivers, which Go Ahead London pay upwards of £28 an hour!