(05 Jun 2023, 6:11 pm)RobinHood wrote Yeah, bus will rarely compete with the private car. Doesn't matter how good the offer is, the convenience of the car will always win.

Would take many years/generational shift to change that perception (or political mindset to prevent cars from getting close to these key areas, which in itself would be political suicide).

Sure, with millions to throw at huge frequency increases and new services to try and change that perception, success may be found eventually, but I don't think any commercial public transport operator has that kind of warchest to revert to in the hope it may be successful eventually.

(05 Jun 2023, 12:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote I don't think it's anything more than being unable to replace life expired (or soon to be) vehicles whilst reducing overheads at the expense of revenue.

How else can a thriving, growing community such as Saltburn, with it's schools (that doesn't have scholars provision), beaches etc end up losing out?
Unless of course, the network isn't meeting the needs of the population or the people travelling for work or pleasure?

Throw in the over-flowing car-parks and expanding offer in Skelton and it's pretty obvious there's clearly something amiss.

(05 Jun 2023, 8:06 pm)Storx wrote Saltburn has trains which are quite cheap aswell as far as I'm aware include the new TPE extensions and is an actual central station believe it's £6 or so return off peak, it's 3x quicker aswell.

You'd be mad to use the bus there unless you need to go to some random place inbetween which it doesn't do. Imo the bigger question is why is the need for the X2/X3/X4 all duplicating a rail network and serving absolutely nothing inbetween like Cleveland Retail Park and Eston Tesco where no doubt some people shop. 

No doubt it's why the cuts are coming as the only people doing that will be pensioners using their bus passes as it's free.

(05 Jun 2023, 8:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote You've got to remember that there's a population of people living and working beyond Saltburn and the wonders of the railway line. 

Brotton, Loftus, Skelton - all not connected to the rail network and with a population that won't and don't need to travel by train unless they're off somewhere exotic like York. 

Not sure that Cleveland Retail Park or Eston Tesco are that much of an appeal for anyone in East Cleveland either.
Particularly when you pass an Asda, Skelton retail park, Morrisons and Tesco to get to any of those places (rail, road or bus).
With Guisborough just a few minutes west.

(05 Jun 2023, 8:55 pm)Storx wrote Aye no arguments, but surely a proper express for them would be the answer rather than going on a magical mystery tour around Saltburn and Redcar, two places they probably don't want to be at either. The X3/X3A in particular is one hell of a magical mystery tour of an express and has little purpose to the West side, it's no wonder it's struggling imo as it just duplicates the X4 or 5 but longer, long distance.

There's absolutely no need for the X3/X3A to go West of Marske, it'd arguably be better bolted onto the end of the 81. There's no lost links bar the 1 small village South of Skelton. Least then it might have more a purpose.

Something like - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.526833,-1.0673405/54.5262957,-1.0682698/@54.5976387,-1.0625094,5164m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m59!4m58!1m55!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0554837!2d54.5347131!3s0x487ee5f5c3d51fbb:0xeb616915052ce08d!3m4!1m2!1d-0.9857781!2d54.5375711!3s0x487ee438e2121017:0x5d25728a6753e3bc!3m4!1m2!1d-0.9678483!2d54.5589907!3s0x487ee4631d0b0791:0x9ebd41f14a942873!3m4!1m2!1d-0.9639591!2d54.5668351!3s0x487ee4860aa29ded:0xdc4b0e86410e92bc!3m4!1m2!1d-0.9384264!2d54.5701504!3s0x487ee370863f3499:0xb65637dc672fca27!3m4!1m2!1d-1.006636!2d54.5922604!3s0x487ee4d881614b71:0x2bc1dff1dbb4e267!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0452802!2d54.6068767!3s0x487efab2ec53f485:0x2226a59328308a99!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0780283!2d54.6083777!3s0x487ef01c67380065:0x49497e8fdc2d7e49!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0766685!2d54.5975774!3s0x487eefe489838d85:0x54030cd1245054!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0516189!2d54.535751!3s0x487ee5f47a0fe12b:0x469bf772a818dba3!3m4!1m2!1d-1.0801295!2d54.5289643!3s0x487eef4625c6a62f:0x9101629581bb858d!1m0!3e0?entry=ttu

It does everything the X3/X3A does for East Cleveland and is more useful with the X2/X3 terminating at New Marske / Marske instead.

(05 Jun 2023, 9:13 pm)Andreos1 wrote I've made points previously about the X3/X3A and the route it takes between Redcar and Marske.
It's painful.
Not sure how much time the Dormanstown diversion added to the timetable of either service, but it seems to take a lot longer than it did when bypassing it. 

Neither of those things make the service any more attractive for those using the service other than locally in Redcar.
They've potentially put people off using the service under the guise of saving themselves money or reducing overheads. 

Throw in the 15min clock face timetable that the X3 series and X4 had, versus what they have now (timetabled to run just a few mins apart on common sections in some cases) and you begin to wonder at the logic and decision making.
Then look at how closely the 5 and X3A run together in Brotton...

There's no doubt the X3A provides useful, important links. It will never succeed under it's current guise and I'd be interested to see any knock-on effect with the X3.

Some places are going from 4 buses an hour to 3.
Others are going from 2 to 1.
Not conducive to turning up and going. You've shared your own thoughts on hourly services...

(05 Jun 2023, 8:06 pm)Storx wrote Saltburn has trains which are quite cheap aswell as far as I'm aware include the new TPE extensions and is an actual central station believe it's £6 or so return off peak, it's 3x quicker aswell.

You'd be mad to use the bus there unless you need to go to some random place inbetween which it doesn't do. Imo the bigger question is why is the need for the X2/X3/X4 all duplicating a rail network and serving absolutely nothing inbetween like Cleveland Retail Park and Eston Tesco where no doubt some people shop.

No doubt it's why the cuts are coming as the only people doing that will be pensioners using their bus passes as it's free.

(06 Jun 2023, 9:34 am)V514DFT wrote The 5A is cancelled

(06 Jun 2023, 9:54 am)RMF1254 wrote That’s if TPE operate. Last week I was visiting friends in Yorkshire, one TPE cut short at Leeds and 2 cancelled, one of which was heading to Saltburn. I ended up paying an extra £12 for a single to Newcastle from York as the next TPE was 90 minutes later. To be fair I’ve had some compensation, just about covering the extra ticket I had to buy. LNER superb, Cross Country rammed and TPE a shambles that day. Can’t always rely on rail I’m afraid!

(06 Jun 2023, 10:16 am)Storx wrote It's not, just dropped to hourly so there's a weird 3 BPH interworking with the X93, which doesn't stop on half the stops, it's a right mess imo. Whether they'll have the 5 as every 20 minutes I'm not sure or 15 / 15 / 30 with the X93 doing the other 15 isn't very clear.

(06 Jun 2023, 10:28 am)Kuyoyo wrote Journey planner confirms the departures from Middlesbrough will be xx05 and xx35 for the 5 and xx50 for the 5a - the X93 departs at xx20.

(06 Jun 2023, 1:36 pm)Storx wrote Must admit it's messy for people using the intermediate stops having a 15 / 30 / 15 frequency for people along Cargo Fleet Lane. 

Not ideal filling up the X93 with short trippers either in the Summer either imo.

(06 Jun 2023, 1:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote To be fair most people affected in Guisborough would be going against the peak flow on the X93, morning towards Middlesbrough & afternoon back towards Guisborough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(27 Jun 2023, 1:35 pm)Michael Euston wrote According to our local councilors, the service starts on Monday 10th July 2023. Just waiting to see if the route has been changed now that the X3A has been cancelled.

(27 Jun 2023, 8:29 pm)Andreos1 wrote Simon Clarke (is he a Sir or Lord now?) has been on about it, paying tribute to other local politicians for their efforts

https://www.facebook.com/100057792050083/posts/pfbid0FiepZnPVe5rCZcGEbFXgtCGAGqBF7suKxNiqSdSQDPXYrCWtMj5bmJsP7Jgnd4fBl/?sfnsn=scwspmo

(28 Jun 2023, 12:14 pm)RobinHood wrote £389,500 per year. That is the cost to the public purse that Stagecoach have been awarded to operate Services 1/2.
Add to that, the cost of Tees Flex also running in the area, probably brings the East Cleveland share of TVCA support to over £1million per year. 

Absolutely unbelievable (and frankly shameful volume of public spending being used for a bus service to link Liverton, Loftus Estates and Moorsholm basically).
Frankly not surprised with Arriva actions either learning this. Imagine if that funding was used to enhance the existing services already in situ!

(28 Jun 2023, 12:14 pm)RobinHood wrote £389,500 per year. That is the cost to the public purse that Stagecoach have been awarded to operate Services 1/2.
Add to that, the cost of Tees Flex also running in the area, probably brings the East Cleveland share of TVCA support to over £1million per year.

Absolutely unbelievable (and frankly shameful volume of public spending being used for a bus service to link Liverton, Loftus Estates and Moorsholm basically).
Frankly not surprised with Arriva actions either learning this. Imagine if that funding was used to enhance the existing services already in situ!

(23 Jul 2023, 9:01 am)tvd wrote In principle I like the idea of a service connecting the villages in East Cleveland with Asda and Saltburn, and I tried out the bus the other day.

But I can't see it being a success, I'd certainly tweak the route quite a bit.  And having 20 minutes layover at Loftus is too much.

(23 Jul 2023, 1:00 pm)Storx wrote I personally think it's a complete waste of tax payers money imo, the money should be spent elsewhere ie extending the X3 instead. Just give Arriva an ultimatum, we'll fund the Sunday service if you extend these at other times, decline it then put the 3 out to tender. I'm pretty certain what option they'll go for.

(23 Jul 2023, 5:29 pm)RobinHood wrote I'm pretty sure Arriva would decline the offer of funding a one day a week service in favour of them running six other days at a loss.

Don't disagree with your point though, for what they are spending, they could have done much more if they worked with Arriva, but by all accounts, this was a local councillor pushing agenda that simply went to tender rather than understanding opportunities.

(23 Jul 2023, 6:08 pm)Storx wrote Sorry wasn't clear there, I meant subsidise the extension on the end of the X3 rather than it been done commercially. It'll be cheaper overall anyway. 

But aye agreed, hopefully in the future they can work to come to something better rather than a rather infrequent 2 hourly service which isn't exactly ideal. I'm not sure what the timing difference is between getting to ASDA and leaving but 99% of people don't need that amount of time especially when the store doesn't have a cafe.

(18 Feb 2024, 10:38 pm)Mike_98 wrote I've been on it a few times and seen a fair few people on there from time to time. I asked the drivers who have been operating the routes on how busy does it get. They said it never gets full but have been busy the last week due to school half term. Other times it can be empty or have 1 or 2 people.

One other driver said the service was meant to go through the high streets of the each village but Stagecoach were told they can't as it would compete with Arrivas Services 5 and X4.

(19 Feb 2024, 1:06 am)idiot wrote Isn't that the point of 1986? Generate competition

(19 Feb 2024, 7:32 am)RobinHood wrote This isn't a commercial service, so TVCA likely don't want to create competition and end up with neither service being viable.

(19 Feb 2024, 1:06 am)idiot wrote Isn't that the point of 1986? Generate competition