(29 Jul 2021, 9:58 pm)Ambassador wrote Are links to business parks really that key anymore? The vast majority of employers aren’t going back full time, even in a post COVID world.

You can see why a bus company (business) would go after a growing leisure market versus a dwindling employment  centre market.

(29 Jul 2021, 10:03 pm)Storx wrote No money in leisure though really, your commuters are the money makers who have season passes etc. Some pensioners and kids going to the supermarket and cinema occasionally won't keep bus routes going. I'm guessing it's why we're seeing more of flexi tickets etc as they know without any commuters they're finished. Business parks are definitely still important imo.

Not to mention the chain effect of, well I drive to work, I might aswell drive to the cinema.

(29 Jul 2021, 9:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Has the 21 extension been confirmed?

(29 Jul 2021, 9:58 pm)Ambassador wrote Are links to business parks really that key anymore? The vast majority of employers aren’t going back full time, even in a post COVID world.

You can see why a bus company (business) would go after a growing leisure market versus a dwindling employment centre market.

(29 Jul 2021, 10:07 pm)Ambassador wrote that market is dwindling though. Your base remains working class and lower middles who don’t or can’t drive to get to work and that doesn’t change or grow.

The commercial success of the £1 fares and Seasider/Toon Tour shows the leisure opportunity is there, how long the post staycation boom lasts is another but as football restarts if you can tempt a few thousand Newcastle fans onto your bus for a quid, there’s profit to be had

(29 Jul 2021, 10:07 pm)Ambassador wrote The commercial success of the £1 fares and Seasider/Toon Tour shows the leisure opportunity is there, how long the post staycation boom lasts is another but as football restarts if you can tempt a few thousand Newcastle fans onto your bus for a quid, there’s profit to be had

(29 Jul 2021, 10:27 pm)mb134 wrote For a while, even before Covid, I've thought of the leisure market being the main area for growth.

For commuting, there's realistically only ever going to be a specific pool of people who you're appealing to. Unless you live on a direct route, cannot drive, have issues with parking, or would need to plough through heavy traffic, chances are most folk will drive to work. 

On top of this, you have the income from leisure that can really make the difference. Just about everyone I know considers using the bus for a night out in Newcastle, or to get to the match on a Saturday, or for shopping in town. Lots of these people, family members included, only do so because of the promotions when their routes were upgraded a few years back and they were made aware of the reasonable fares and late journeys. Out of those people, every single one of them uses a car for their daily commute. It's clear they will never change how they commute, in many instances it just isn't feasible, but it is clear that the correct marketing can easily get car users onto the bus for leisure.

(29 Jul 2021, 9:58 pm)Ambassador wrote Are links to business parks really that key anymore? The vast majority of employers aren’t going back full time, even in a post COVID world.

You can see why a bus company (business) would go after a growing leisure market versus a dwindling employment  centre market.

(30 Jul 2021, 8:52 am)Andreos1 wrote Even if 50% of office users return back to full-time office working, there's still going to be a good number that could make the switch. On top of those who are using public transport out of necessity.

(30 Jul 2021, 9:17 am)MurdnunoC wrote Could, but probably won't. And if I was in that position, why would I? Why would anyone?

(30 Jul 2021, 12:57 am)streetdeckfan wrote I'd say they tend to focus on the commuters because of the consistent revenue, they're almost guaranteed a certain level of income from sales of corporate, monthly, and to some extent weekly tickets. From a company's perspective it's better to have a lower amount of consistent revenue than a higher but less consistent amount. If there's a month of bad weather then revenue is going to be considerably lower than if the weather was nice.

Having said that, it is very important to cater to the leisure crowd as well. In terms of pricing, it's hard to strike a balance. They need the pricing to be high enough to cover costs but not too high to scare people away. And with their regular single and return tickets I think they're pretty close to the high end of what they can charge (I still think day and week tickets are reasonable). MG said in his FB live that they'd seen a 100% increase in evening passengers and a 25% increase in revenue, indicating that pricing a pretty major factor when it comes to leisure customers.

They'd also rather have a bus with 50 passengers paying £1 than 10 passengers paying £5. If one of those passengers paying £5 stops getting the bus, that's an instant 10% decrease in revenue which with the relatively small margins could turn a bus from being profitable to just breaking even.

Now, if only they could introduce a proper Sunday service!

(30 Jul 2021, 9:24 am)Andreos1 wrote There could be a whole raft of reasons.
Of the top of my head - they could use the time to do work (like streetdeckfan), they could sleep, they could be thinking of the environment, they could be doing so for health reasons (that bus isn't going to drop them at the door after all), they could be doing it cos the other half needs the car, they could do it cos their car is in need of attention at the garage and all of a sudden the bus becomes a viable alternative, they could be sadomaschicists who enjoy the torture of public transport, they could be sick of the traffic and see that bus lane as a good idea...

Many, many reasons.

(30 Jul 2021, 9:24 am)Andreos1 wrote There could be a whole raft of reasons.

Of the top of my head - they could use the time to do work (like streetdeckfan), Only if you're in a position to do that. A factory or a supermarket worker can't exactly box stuff or stack shelves on a bus. And even if you could work on the bus, there's stuff like GDPR to think about. All those eyes and very little privacy.

they could sleep, Could have an extra half hour uninterrupted at home and drive. On the way back, could drive and have a quick nap at home or go to bed/unwind earlier if you're a shift worker.

they could be thinking of the environment, I'll give you that one.

they could be doing so for health reasons (that bus isn't going to drop them at the door after all), Surely cycling or walking is healthier. Little exercise is better than no exercise, but if you're looking to do this for health reasons, then the exercise needs to be more prolonged to have a greater benefit.

they could be doing it cos the other half needs the car,  perhaps, but how long before a two car family emerges if the arrangement isn't temporary?

they could do it cos their car is in need of attention at the garage and all of a sudden the bus becomes a viable alternative,  again, temporary arrangement in all probability. If the car is beyond repair, I think it is more likely a replacement car will be sort after rather than transport modal switch.

they could be sadomaschicists who enjoy the torture of public transport, this one should have been last on the list as its the only real reason presented.

they could be sick of the traffic and see that bus lane as a good idea... bus has to wait in the same traffic elsewhere. 

Many, many reasons.

(30 Jul 2021, 9:43 am)streetdeckfan wrote To me, the best way to get people to use the bus is to make sure they don't get the car in the first place. The bus shouldn't be the alternative, getting a car should be

As we've argued about, sorry discussed, if you already have a car it doesn't make financial sense to switch to the bus, but if you don't already have the fixed expense of a car (tax, insurance, monthly payments etc.) then the bus can work out considerably cheaper.

(30 Jul 2021, 9:24 am)Andreos1 wrote There could be a whole raft of reasons.
Of the top of my head - they could use the time to do work (like streetdeckfan), they could sleep, they could be thinking of the environment, they could be doing so for health reasons (that bus isn't going to drop them at the door after all), they could be doing it cos the other half needs the car, they could do it cos their car is in need of attention at the garage and all of a sudden the bus becomes a viable alternative, they could be sadomaschicists who enjoy the torture of public transport, they could be sick of the traffic and see that bus lane as a good idea...

Many, many reasons.

(30 Jul 2021, 9:43 am)streetdeckfan wrote  To me, the best way to get people to use the bus is to make sure they don't get the car in the first place. The bus shouldn't be the alternative, getting a car should be 

As we've argued about, sorry discussed, if you already have a car it doesn't make financial sense to switch to the bus, but if you don't already have the fixed expense of a car (tax, insurance, monthly payments etc.) then the bus can work out considerably cheaper.

(29 Jul 2021, 10:23 pm)Adrian wrote Thought it was deemed as inevitable, as it was announced donkeys ago before being put on hold. Of course that could have all changed and the demand deemed to have disappeared, but it would be a mistake imo, given Arriva have recently reduced their service there.I think its an interesting point, and it ultimately depends on what types of plots are available. I think we're going to end up with a lot of surplus office space around the Country, but there's other opportunities on business parks with industrial or mixed use, e.g. Follingsby and Integra61.

Durham County Council still have redevelopment plans for Aykley Heads into office space, but I cannot see them getting the tennants for them.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(30 Jul 2021, 10:52 am)Andreos1 wrote Long-term, yes I agree.
Except operators want results in the short and medium term. They can't wait 10/15 years for little Jonny to go from having his first day out with his grandparents on a decker, to using the bus to go to work. 
Attracting people from cars and on to public transport is one way of achieving those goals.

(10 Aug 2021, 10:31 pm)Ambassador wrote I took my first bus ride into the office today in some time (purely out of boredom tbh to pick up my shiny new iPad).

21 both ways…two god awful knee legroom less shuddering Omnidekkaa on both trips. There was a slight enthusiast ah well…no god awful next stop announcement glee to my face but paying passenger, Nah, it was dirty (and I mean filthy) uncomfortable and a horrible ride both ways. Flagship route? Hmmm.

It absolutely hasn’t enticed me to use public transport again, I’d honestly rather pay an Uber premium.

(10 Aug 2021, 10:57 pm)Jimmi wrote This is one thing that bugs me, all this marketing into how good things are supposedly are and features advertised such as Xlines spec for X21, it just sets up disappointment when an OmniDekka turns up, I had 6142 on X21 the other week and it's a bit of a far cry from what's being advertised, perception being made worse still by crawling up the A167 into Sunderland Bridge / Croxdale, mind that said I was in a bad mood as the X10 I was catching from Billingham was 25 mins late and made me miss my connecting X21 at Peterlee (hourly service), nice all these features but getting home an hour late is not exactly going to win over passengers.

This applies to all operators, was just a recent example for me.

(10 Aug 2021, 10:31 pm)Ambassador wrote I took my first bus ride into the office today in some time (purely out of boredom tbh to pick up my shiny new iPad).

21 both ways…two god awful knee legroom less shuddering  Omnidekkaa on both trips. There was a slight enthusiast ah well…no god awful next stop announcement glee to my face but paying passenger, Nah, it was dirty (and I mean filthy) uncomfortable and a horrible ride both ways. Flagship route? Hmmm.

It absolutely hasn’t enticed me to use public transport again, I’d honestly rather pay an Uber premium.

(10 Aug 2021, 10:57 pm)Jimmi wrote This is one thing that bugs me, all this marketing into how good things are supposedly are and features advertised such as Xlines spec for X21, it just sets up disappointment when an OmniDekka turns up, I had 6142 on X21 the other week and it's a bit of a far cry from what's being advertised, perception being made worse still by crawling up the A167 into Sunderland Bridge / Croxdale, mind that said I was in a bad mood as the X10 I was catching from Billingham was 25 mins late and made me miss my connecting X21 at Peterlee (hourly service), nice all these features but getting home an hour late is not exactly going to win over passengers.

This applies to all operators, was just a recent example for me.

(11 Aug 2021, 10:59 am)Adrian wrote ...and here lies the problem. When you invest so much into marketing of shiny new buses with their fantastic on-board features, with the intention of encouraging new people to use the bus instead of private car, they're rightly going to be disappointed when a 15 year old second hand Omnidekka turns up, with zero legroom and like it hasn't been deep cleaned for a month.

It's a lack of attention to detail and it undoes all the good work, time and money spent in marketing services. It stinks of the 'any bus will do' attitude of years gone by.

First impressions are everything, but they'll likely be the last impressions for first time users.

(11 Aug 2021, 11:08 am)Ambassador wrote I know it's a seperate issue but the bus was pretty rammed and only 2 or 3 people were wearing masks which was a little offputting

For the 2 days a week I'm in the office I'm gonna stick to Uber.

(10 Aug 2021, 11:18 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Do you mind, complaining about OmniDekkas on the X21 is kind of my thing!

At least it's not as bad as it used to be, I remember one time where there were at least 3 OmniDekkas in a row on the X21!

(11 Aug 2021, 10:59 am)Adrian wrote ...and here lies the problem. When you invest so much into marketing of shiny new buses with their fantastic on-board features, with the intention of encouraging new people to use the bus instead of private car, they're rightly going to be disappointed when a 15 year old second hand Omnidekka turns up, with zero legroom and like it hasn't been deep cleaned for a month.

It's a lack of attention to detail and it undoes all the good work, time and money spent in marketing services. It stinks of the 'any bus will do' attitude of years gone by.

First impressions are everything, but they'll likely be the last impressions for first time users.

(11 Aug 2021, 11:08 am)Ambassador wrote I know it's a seperate issue but the bus was pretty rammed and only 2 or 3 people were wearing masks which was a little offputting

For the 2 days a week I'm in the office I'm gonna stick to Uber.

(11 Aug 2021, 11:51 am)Jimmi wrote Sorry hun x

They're still allocated on the regular due to lack of high spec spares since 6301/2/3 went to Consett, it wouldn't be so bad if they can rotate the boards they do so they're likely not being caught by the same passengers each day (no idea if this is done or not?) but seems like pot luck especially when they get chucked on as a breakdown replacement.


It's amazing how seriously things like WiFi and plug sockets can be taken by some passengers, I've even seen passengers kicking off with drivers when the plugs don't work especially when the passenger think the driver is just being awkward and not turning them on to annoy the passengers, will admit in the past I have been annoyed when I'm short on data or battery life and a basic spec Bus turns up instead of the advertised bus with these features.
 
Getting people out of cars now is always going to be a struggle as the bus is seen as not good value alternative option due to high priced fares and long indirect journey times. 

(11 Aug 2021, 11:51 am)Jimmi wrote Sorry hun x

They're still allocated on the regular due to lack of high spec spares since 6301/2/3 went to Consett, it wouldn't be so bad if they can rotate the boards they do so they're likely not being caught by the same passengers each day (no idea if this is done or not?) but seems like pot luck especially when they get chucked on as a breakdown replacement.


It's amazing how seriously things like WiFi and plug sockets can be taken by some passengers, I've even seen passengers kicking off with drivers when the plugs don't work especially when the passenger think the driver is just being awkward and not turning them on to annoy the passengers, will admit in the past I have been annoyed when I'm short on data or battery life and a basic spec Bus turns up instead of the advertised bus with these features.

Getting people out of cars now is always going to be a struggle as the bus is seen as not good value alternative option due to high priced fares and long indirect journey times.

(10 Aug 2021, 10:31 pm)Ambassador wrote I took my first bus ride into the office today in some time (purely out of boredom tbh to pick up my shiny new iPad).

21 both ways…two god awful knee legroom less shuddering  Omnidekkaa on both trips. There was a slight enthusiast ah well…no god awful next stop announcement glee to my face but paying passenger, Nah, it was dirty (and I mean filthy) uncomfortable and a horrible ride both ways. Flagship route? Hmmm.

It absolutely hasn’t enticed me to use public transport again, I’d honestly rather pay an Uber premium.