Go North East March 2023 changes
Go North East March 2023 changes
(26 Feb 2023, 5:06 pm)V514DFT Errrm what was their reason for withdrawing it from the Metrocentre again?
(26 Feb 2023, 5:06 pm)V514DFT Errrm what was their reason for withdrawing it from the Metrocentre again?
(26 Feb 2023, 5:56 pm)Storx Unless they're planning to cut the 96 down to hourly or upto every 20 minutes or 1 down to every 30 minutes then it won't work.Thought it was something like that
That's why btw, the 1 was reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes.
An interesting but potentially controversial suggestion here, but extend the 58 from Follingsby Park to Washington Galleries (thus allowing Washington Depot to run the service reducing the distance for driver changeovers with them being done at Concord). Curtail the 4 to terminate at either Galleries or Concord with odd journies at certain times going to Follingsby Park Amazon to coincide with shift changeover times.
(26 Feb 2023, 11:06 pm)Rapidsnap An interesting but potentially controversial suggestion here, but extend the 58 from Follingsby Park to Washington Galleries (thus allowing Washington Depot to run the service reducing the distance for driver changeovers with them being done at Concord). Curtail the 4 to terminate at either Galleries or Concord with odd journies at certain times going to Follingsby Park Amazon to coincide with shift changeover times.Honestly I think it depends on how many people go from Houghton through Washington and go onto Heworth/Concord.
(26 Feb 2023, 11:06 pm)Rapidsnap An interesting but potentially controversial suggestion here, but extend the 58 from Follingsby Park to Washington Galleries (thus allowing Washington Depot to run the service reducing the distance for driver changeovers with them being done at Concord). Curtail the 4 to terminate at either Galleries or Concord with odd journies at certain times going to Follingsby Park Amazon to coincide with shift changeover times.Honestly I think it depends on how many people go from Houghton through Washington and go onto Heworth/Concord.
(26 Feb 2023, 5:56 pm)Storx Unless they're planning to cut the 96 down to hourly or upto every 20 minutes or 1 down to every 30 minutes then it won't work.Was the 1 not split into the 1A/1B running up to every 20 minutes or 20/40 / hourly until the extension was withdrawn?
That's why btw, the 1 was reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes.
(26 Feb 2023, 5:56 pm)Storx Unless they're planning to cut the 96 down to hourly or upto every 20 minutes or 1 down to every 30 minutes then it won't work.Was the 1 not split into the 1A/1B running up to every 20 minutes or 20/40 / hourly until the extension was withdrawn?
That's why btw, the 1 was reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes.
(27 Feb 2023, 5:51 am)L469 YVK Was the 1 not split into the 1A/1B running up to every 20 minutes or 20/40 / hourly until the extension was withdrawn?
In theory, if Riverside needs resource and Percy Main has the available drivers, it would make sense to re-instate the 1A/1B.
And it would allow the X72 to be quickened up.
(27 Feb 2023, 5:51 am)L469 YVK Was the 1 not split into the 1A/1B running up to every 20 minutes or 20/40 / hourly until the extension was withdrawn?
In theory, if Riverside needs resource and Percy Main has the available drivers, it would make sense to re-instate the 1A/1B.
And it would allow the X72 to be quickened up.
(26 Feb 2023, 11:06 pm)Rapidsnap An interesting but potentially controversial suggestion here, but extend the 58 from Follingsby Park to Washington Galleries (thus allowing Washington Depot to run the service reducing the distance for driver changeovers with them being done at Concord). Curtail the 4 to terminate at either Galleries or Concord with odd journies at certain times going to Follingsby Park Amazon to coincide with shift changeover times.Christ, don't give them ideas which enable them to cut the frequency of the 4 any further south of the Gallieries!
(26 Feb 2023, 11:06 pm)Rapidsnap An interesting but potentially controversial suggestion here, but extend the 58 from Follingsby Park to Washington Galleries (thus allowing Washington Depot to run the service reducing the distance for driver changeovers with them being done at Concord). Curtail the 4 to terminate at either Galleries or Concord with odd journies at certain times going to Follingsby Park Amazon to coincide with shift changeover times.Christ, don't give them ideas which enable them to cut the frequency of the 4 any further south of the Gallieries!
(24 Feb 2023, 7:22 pm)Unber43 Such as?
Also how would u change Houghton-Chester leg causing it to have demand without removing links.
And the 71 going to GCT will that just decrease passenger numbers especially around 78 route where presumably thoses traveling to CLS to Newcastle will have daily/weekly tickets
(24 Feb 2023, 8:04 pm)Andreos1 When the 21a ran, the extension to the Chester - Houghton section was on the northern portion. Where the demand was.
The southern portion (the weaker part) was the extension. Clearly the stronger portion kept the weaker portion going.
Since they got rid of the 21a, the focus has been on the weaker portion and tagging even weaker portions on it.
Whilst having it run in the shadows of the 78 both on the half hourly frequency and then the hourly frequency.
The extention of the 238 over Copt Hill didn't work.
The shortlived X4 over Copt Hill didn't work.
Why would the 71?
When it originally ran to Sunderland, it replaced the poorly performing 160 and 163. They didn't work. Why would the 71?
Fares fell into the ridiculous stage from day 1.
I can't remember the exact figures, but a T&W Day ticket that allowed travel to Birtley and beyond on the 21a was circa £3.
When the 71 was launched, a single to Chester was circa £3.
The T&W ticket was suddenly invalid and the equivalent day ticket was circa £6.
The 71 didn't work, so why did they think the 36 would? When that failed, why did they go back to the original 71 and go back to the work that didn't work originally?
(24 Feb 2023, 7:22 pm)Unber43 Such as?
Also how would u change Houghton-Chester leg causing it to have demand without removing links.
And the 71 going to GCT will that just decrease passenger numbers especially around 78 route where presumably thoses traveling to CLS to Newcastle will have daily/weekly tickets
(24 Feb 2023, 8:04 pm)Andreos1 When the 21a ran, the extension to the Chester - Houghton section was on the northern portion. Where the demand was.
The southern portion (the weaker part) was the extension. Clearly the stronger portion kept the weaker portion going.
Since they got rid of the 21a, the focus has been on the weaker portion and tagging even weaker portions on it.
Whilst having it run in the shadows of the 78 both on the half hourly frequency and then the hourly frequency.
The extention of the 238 over Copt Hill didn't work.
The shortlived X4 over Copt Hill didn't work.
Why would the 71?
When it originally ran to Sunderland, it replaced the poorly performing 160 and 163. They didn't work. Why would the 71?
Fares fell into the ridiculous stage from day 1.
I can't remember the exact figures, but a T&W Day ticket that allowed travel to Birtley and beyond on the 21a was circa £3.
When the 71 was launched, a single to Chester was circa £3.
The T&W ticket was suddenly invalid and the equivalent day ticket was circa £6.
The 71 didn't work, so why did they think the 36 would? When that failed, why did they go back to the original 71 and go back to the work that didn't work originally?
(27 Feb 2023, 12:49 pm)Adrian Remove the 78 from Bournmoor and Lumley, sending it straight along the A183 from Shiney Row to Chester-le-Street.Theres been a decker on the 71 several times, its when it anything longer than 10.8m such as Country Ranger StreetLites whcih can't get around
Bournmoor doesn't need 6 buses an hour (78 combined with the 4), plus removing it would still leave it with a 15 minute frequency between Houghton (to Interchange) and Shiney Row. Having the 71 service half-hourly between Houghton and Chester-le-Street would cover the rest of the route, providing a more natural link to Houghton-le-Spring or Chester-le-Street.
Of course, the bonus is also a quicker journey time for those using the 78 to/from Sunderland.
Houghton to Seaham isn't exactly a natural travel link either. Having something direct to Newcastle may attract a few more than tagging the section on to something else, but likely to cause complaints from Seaham residents that want a bus that'll drop them off at their door step.
(27 Feb 2023, 12:49 pm)Adrian Remove the 78 from Bournmoor and Lumley, sending it straight along the A183 from Shiney Row to Chester-le-Street.Theres been a decker on the 71 several times, its when it anything longer than 10.8m such as Country Ranger StreetLites whcih can't get around
Bournmoor doesn't need 6 buses an hour (78 combined with the 4), plus removing it would still leave it with a 15 minute frequency between Houghton (to Interchange) and Shiney Row. Having the 71 service half-hourly between Houghton and Chester-le-Street would cover the rest of the route, providing a more natural link to Houghton-le-Spring or Chester-le-Street.
Of course, the bonus is also a quicker journey time for those using the 78 to/from Sunderland.
Houghton to Seaham isn't exactly a natural travel link either. Having something direct to Newcastle may attract a few more than tagging the section on to something else, but likely to cause complaints from Seaham residents that want a bus that'll drop them off at their door step.
In my opinion services around Seaham declined when they started withdrawing the local service and absorbing them into the longer distance routes, which then agains stilts growth on those services as they’re restricted to mini buses (MPD, Solo) which of course can quickly overcrowd and routes take longer to get to the end destination. Even the mid-to late 2000s you had the Seaham circular doing the local stuff around Deneside, Westlea and Northlea, which meant that the routes going out of town could take more direct routes. Arriva did the same in Peterlee with service 24 now taking a year and a day to get round Peterlee, GNE currently doing it with the Peterlee extension of the 61 around Murton too.
If you had a Houghton to Seaham bus that went direct from the Harbour via Station Road and Seaton, maybe as an X1 extension it could be relatively quick and then offer new connections to Seaham, Washington, Newcastle. For years, GNE had an every ten minutes X1 and a half hourly 55 (X5/X35 etc,) going between Houghton and Easington Lane + the 35 half hourly too, which was overkill on that corridor. Rerouting one or two an hour could have opened up more people on that section of route who were going further afield, and you were still giving a very decent service on the corridor to Easington lane. They tried doing a bit of that at one stage as the X4 but if I remember it was pretty much 90 minutes end to end and seemed to serve any possible location along the way.
(27 Feb 2023, 12:49 pm)Adrian Remove the 78 from Bournmoor and Lumley, sending it straight along the A183 from Shiney Row to Chester-le-Street.
Bournmoor doesn't need 6 buses an hour (78 combined with the 4), plus removing it would still leave it with a 15 minute frequency between Houghton (to Interchange) and Shiney Row. Having the 71 service half-hourly between Houghton and Chester-le-Street would cover the rest of the route, providing a more natural link to Houghton-le-Spring or Chester-le-Street.
Of course, the bonus is also a quicker journey time for those using the 78 to/from Sunderland.
Houghton to Seaham isn't exactly a natural travel link either. Having something direct to Newcastle may attract a few more than tagging the section on to something else, but likely to cause complaints from Seaham residents that want a bus that'll drop them off at their door step.
(27 Feb 2023, 12:49 pm)Adrian Remove the 78 from Bournmoor and Lumley, sending it straight along the A183 from Shiney Row to Chester-le-Street.
Bournmoor doesn't need 6 buses an hour (78 combined with the 4), plus removing it would still leave it with a 15 minute frequency between Houghton (to Interchange) and Shiney Row. Having the 71 service half-hourly between Houghton and Chester-le-Street would cover the rest of the route, providing a more natural link to Houghton-le-Spring or Chester-le-Street.
Of course, the bonus is also a quicker journey time for those using the 78 to/from Sunderland.
Houghton to Seaham isn't exactly a natural travel link either. Having something direct to Newcastle may attract a few more than tagging the section on to something else, but likely to cause complaints from Seaham residents that want a bus that'll drop them off at their door step.
(26 Feb 2023, 10:58 am)Unber43 Yeah it does. Thanks. Also I suppose its straight down the A1, which can't be much further than what it is from Washington, according to Google Maps it says it takes 12-16 mins from Concord to CLS, and it takes 16-20 from Metrocentre so I suppose that it just minor. Hopefully they'll not be moved till Riverside have enough drivers pretty sure they'll need around 18-21 to run 28/29/25 (Monday - Saturday)
Peterlee still has some remote reliefs doesn't it Im pretty sure it's 206/208, if the X6 were to go to every 30 mins that would stop reliefs for 208/206 presumably if it could all time right
(26 Feb 2023, 10:58 am)Unber43 Yeah it does. Thanks. Also I suppose its straight down the A1, which can't be much further than what it is from Washington, according to Google Maps it says it takes 12-16 mins from Concord to CLS, and it takes 16-20 from Metrocentre so I suppose that it just minor. Hopefully they'll not be moved till Riverside have enough drivers pretty sure they'll need around 18-21 to run 28/29/25 (Monday - Saturday)
Peterlee still has some remote reliefs doesn't it Im pretty sure it's 206/208, if the X6 were to go to every 30 mins that would stop reliefs for 208/206 presumably if it could all time right
(27 Feb 2023, 7:31 pm)Drifter60 The 206 and 208 do both appear to operate standalone and must have remote reliefs at Peterlee.I agree, hourly services are really no good as they offer no real flexability.
With clever interworking patterns, I’m sure you could work the X6 to be half hourly. One bus an hour doing the 201/209/210 as now, and the other moving onto 206 then 208 then back on X6.
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, a half hourly service is such a difference for passengers and it seems like the X6 maybe be a little stilted with just hourly mini buses. And the fact this could remove the need for remote reliefs on 206 & 208, it would at least make some operational sense too.
Could swear I wrote this somewhere but can't seem to find it.
Either the X1 a short one hourly only to Houghton then extended to Seaham, however I would change the route of the 71, I would take it through Seaton, Station Road, Train Station, Seaham then possibly either upto the Business Park (GNE should do surveys to see how many people would use it), or along Princess Road then turn around to replace missed links from the 202/62.
or 21 should extended from Chester-Le-Street and follow the 71 including my idea to re-route it.
If the X1 is an option you could add the 71 onto the current 39A to Houghton and extend it to CLS this would also open up links for people who work at Doxford.
(27 Feb 2023, 7:31 pm)Drifter60 The 206 and 208 do both appear to operate standalone and must have remote reliefs at Peterlee.I agree, hourly services are really no good as they offer no real flexability.
With clever interworking patterns, I’m sure you could work the X6 to be half hourly. One bus an hour doing the 201/209/210 as now, and the other moving onto 206 then 208 then back on X6.
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, a half hourly service is such a difference for passengers and it seems like the X6 maybe be a little stilted with just hourly mini buses. And the fact this could remove the need for remote reliefs on 206 & 208, it would at least make some operational sense too.
(27 Feb 2023, 12:49 pm)Adrian Remove the 78 from Bournmoor and Lumley, sending it straight along the A183 from Shiney Row to Chester-le-Street.
Bournmoor doesn't need 6 buses an hour (78 combined with the 4), plus removing it would still leave it with a 15 minute frequency between Houghton (to Interchange) and Shiney Row. Having the 71 service half-hourly between Houghton and Chester-le-Street would cover the rest of the route, providing a more natural link to Houghton-le-Spring or Chester-le-Street.
Of course, the bonus is also a quicker journey time for those using the 78 to/from Sunderland.
(27 Feb 2023, 12:49 pm)Adrian Remove the 78 from Bournmoor and Lumley, sending it straight along the A183 from Shiney Row to Chester-le-Street.
Bournmoor doesn't need 6 buses an hour (78 combined with the 4), plus removing it would still leave it with a 15 minute frequency between Houghton (to Interchange) and Shiney Row. Having the 71 service half-hourly between Houghton and Chester-le-Street would cover the rest of the route, providing a more natural link to Houghton-le-Spring or Chester-le-Street.
Of course, the bonus is also a quicker journey time for those using the 78 to/from Sunderland.
(27 Feb 2023, 3:26 pm)Drifter60 In my opinion services around Seaham declined when they started withdrawing the local service and absorbing them into the longer distance routes, which then agains stilts growth on those services as they’re restricted to mini buses (MPD, Solo) which of course can quickly overcrowd and routes take longer to get to the end destination. Even the mid-to late 2000s you had the Seaham circular doing the local stuff around Deneside, Westlea and Northlea, which meant that the routes going out of town could take more direct routes. Arriva did the same in Peterlee with service 24 now taking a year and a day to get round Peterlee, GNE currently doing it with the Peterlee extension of the 61 around Murton too.
If you had a Houghton to Seaham bus that went direct from the Harbour via Station Road and Seaton, maybe as an X1 extension it could be relatively quick and then offer new connections to Seaham, Washington, Newcastle. For years, GNE had an every ten minutes X1 and a half hourly 55 (X5/X35 etc,) going between Houghton and Easington Lane + the 35 half hourly too, which was overkill on that corridor. Rerouting one or two an hour could have opened up more people on that section of route who were going further afield, and you were still giving a very decent service on the corridor to Easington lane. They tried doing a bit of that at one stage as the X4 but if I remember it was pretty much 90 minutes end to end and seemed to serve any possible location along the way.
(27 Feb 2023, 3:26 pm)Drifter60 In my opinion services around Seaham declined when they started withdrawing the local service and absorbing them into the longer distance routes, which then agains stilts growth on those services as they’re restricted to mini buses (MPD, Solo) which of course can quickly overcrowd and routes take longer to get to the end destination. Even the mid-to late 2000s you had the Seaham circular doing the local stuff around Deneside, Westlea and Northlea, which meant that the routes going out of town could take more direct routes. Arriva did the same in Peterlee with service 24 now taking a year and a day to get round Peterlee, GNE currently doing it with the Peterlee extension of the 61 around Murton too.
If you had a Houghton to Seaham bus that went direct from the Harbour via Station Road and Seaton, maybe as an X1 extension it could be relatively quick and then offer new connections to Seaham, Washington, Newcastle. For years, GNE had an every ten minutes X1 and a half hourly 55 (X5/X35 etc,) going between Houghton and Easington Lane + the 35 half hourly too, which was overkill on that corridor. Rerouting one or two an hour could have opened up more people on that section of route who were going further afield, and you were still giving a very decent service on the corridor to Easington lane. They tried doing a bit of that at one stage as the X4 but if I remember it was pretty much 90 minutes end to end and seemed to serve any possible location along the way.