(31 Mar 2016, 2:57 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote I'm led to believe that the new livery is going to be similar to Arriva Trains Wales's Livery. ( Standard livery, Not Northern Connect )

Where did you find this out? I've not seen any single mention of the new livery.

(31 Mar 2016, 3:25 pm)northern156 wrote Where did you find this out? I've not seen any single mention of the new livery.

A post from a rail insider on RailUKForums.

Northern website

Caught a Northern 156 with the NSA's for the first time since the new franchise started.

The NSA's haven't been re-recorded. However the 'Rail' from Northern Rail days has been edited out.

(11 Apr 2016, 7:12 pm)Andreos1 wrote Caught a Northern 156 with the NSA's for the first time since the new franchise started.

The NSA's haven't been re-recorded. However the 'Rail' from Northern Rail days has been edited out.

Not been on one yet to try it, but is the editing out of 'Rail' noticeable?

Wish they would get rid of 'Central' from Newcastle though; it's shoddy and unprofessional.

(11 Apr 2016, 8:51 pm)northern156 wrote Not been on one yet to try it, but is the editing out of 'Rail' noticeable?

Wish they would get rid of 'Central' from Newcastle though; it's shoddy and unprofessional.

Yeah it is pretty noticeable. 
Not the best editing job in the world.

I can't replicate it fully but it goes something like 'This is your Northern R service to...'

(11 Apr 2016, 9:05 pm)Andreos1 wrote Yeah it is pretty noticeable. 
Not the best editing job in the world.

I can't replicate it fully but it goes something like 'This is your Northern R service to...'

Just re-iterates my 'shoddy and unprofessional' speech above..!

(11 Apr 2016, 8:51 pm)northern156 wrote Not been on one yet to try it, but is the editing out of 'Rail' noticeable?

Wish they would get rid of 'Central' from Newcastle though; it's shoddy and unprofessional.

I still don't understand why they put "central" in their new electronic displays on the front, especially seeing as they don't actually fit the whole screen nor does it scroll!

Speaking of the displays for me, how can they be approved for DDA standards when the text on them are so small!? Carlisle is really tiny and surely can't be seen from a distance, why oh why have they not followed the Scotrail idea of having big bold text and in any larger destinations, they actually scroll!

(11 Apr 2016, 10:33 pm)Bus_User wrote I still don't understand why they put "central" in their new electronic displays on the front, especially seeing as they don't actually fit the whole screen nor does it scroll!

Speaking of the displays for me, how can they be approved for DDA standards when the text on them are so small!? Carlisle is really tiny and surely can't be seen from a distance, why oh why have they not followed the Scotrail idea of having big bold text and in any larger destinations, they actually scroll!

You're quite right. Regarding Newcastle, it is not used anywhere else in the industry as 'Central'; it is merely a local term. The Metro uses it but as a different version (ie dropping 'Newcastle').

They're the same displays (both interior and exterior) as the recent Class 319 refurbishment so there have been a fair few bought and used - surely they would be DDA compliant etc although I wouldn't hold my breath...

(11 Apr 2016, 9:19 pm)northern156 wrote Just re-iterates my 'shoddy and unprofessional' speech above..!

The station signs have had a make over too.
The manager signs have been plastered with the white stickers I mentioned previously.
So Paul still has his photo displayed. But there is no way you can get in touch with him, as his contact details are covered up.

(12 Apr 2016, 2:08 am)northern156 wrote You're quite right. Regarding Newcastle, it is not used anywhere else in the industry as 'Central'; it is merely a local term. The Metro uses it but as a different version (ie dropping 'Newcastle').

They're the same displays (both interior and exterior) as the recent Class 319 refurbishment so there have been a fair few bought and used - surely they would be DDA compliant etc although I wouldn't hold my breath...

I don't have an issue with them using Central on their displays/announcements. Particularly as the Northern trains stop at Manors.
Ideally Central would be preceded by Newcastle.
However, do you then precede Manors with Newcastle?

(12 Apr 2016, 9:48 am)Andreos1 wrote I don't have an issue with them using Central on their displays/announcements. Particularly as the Northern trains stop at Manors.
Ideally Central would be preceded by Newcastle.
However, do you then precede Manors with Newcastle?

I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

(12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am)northern156 wrote I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

I can't believe the displays they use can't be able to scroll, even GWR ones that I have seen on some 150's/153's have the ability to scroll across incase a destination is too large to fit on but once again Northern seems to lag behind on these things.

I don't have a real issue of adding "central" - I just don't see the point of it and I definitely don't see the point if they can't fit it on. Just keep it simple and just keep it as Newcastle.

(12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am)northern156 wrote I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

Confusingly it is on the booking engines (ncz off memory) and is marked a Metro station. The trainline refer to it as Newcastle Central.
I haven't checked to see if it is cheaper or more expensive using that station over 'Newcastle'.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know a fair few people who refer to it as Central Station, regardless of any official titles.
It is the historic name of the place. The PTE even named the metro station after it.
Another case of marketing forcing a name change?

(12 Apr 2016, 8:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote Confusingly it is on the booking engines (ncz off memory) and is marked a Metro station. The trainline refer to it as Newcastle Central.
I haven't checked to see if it is cheaper or more expensive using that station over 'Newcastle'.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know a fair few people who refer to it as Central Station, regardless of any official titles.
It is the historic name of the place. The PTE even named the metro station after it.
Another case of marketing forcing a name change?

The CRS code for NCZ is "Newcastle (Metro)" which, to me, would be the likes of Monument - it's the most central location in Newcastle you can reach on the Metro. Directly before and after are South Gosforth and Heworth.

As I mentioned earlier - I'd say the 'Central' part is merely a local term; not a term operators should be using.

(12 Apr 2016, 10:24 pm)northern156 wrote The CRS code for NCZ is "Newcastle (Metro)" which, to me, would be the likes of Monument - it's the most central location in Newcastle you can reach on the Metro. Directly before and after are South Gosforth and Heworth.

As I mentioned earlier - I'd say the 'Central' part is merely a local term; not a term operators should be using.

It looks like CrossCountry need to change their booking system then, as they have (ncz) as Newcastle Central (metro).
It is the only one I have on my phone to check.

Central was always the name, going way back. Not just a local term.
Manors was Newcastle Manors.
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/manors_north/

There is almost 50 years of it being called Newcastle Central on timetables in that link.
I have no idea when the Central was removed from timetables and all of the other systems. I would say there is at least another 40 years worth of timetables that has it on.

However - there is no mention of it in Elswick timetables for the period.

If travelling south - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/g/gateshead_east/


To go back to the Northern displays. When booking on say the CrossCountry app and travelling to the region on a Northern train, do you assume you will arrive in the metro station?

On Saturday, some southerners were needing the metro and were tempted to stop on at Central, thinking they needed to alight at the Metrocentre.
The fact the NSA didnt mention the onward connections from Newcastle as some guards do - '...alight here for...', is maybe worth Northern looking at.
It may be more important than the actual display at the front of the train.

I didn't realise it used to be called it quite a lot Andreos - I take back my comments and apologise!

Sunderland is indeed set up like the way you mention - you arrive at the same platform as the Metro. This could bring confusion but seeing as it's all one station with an advertised interchange between National Rail and Metro, it shouldn't really.

According to the Northern train i'm on, we are approching Seaham...

Have they changed the name of Heworth to Seaham?

(14 Apr 2016, 7:41 am)Michael wrote According to the Northern train i'm on, we are approching Seaham...

Have they changed the name of Heworth to Seaham?

Same happened to me
Train is 156463

Question
If I bought a return on the northern train Sunderland to Hartlepool but got of at seaham then back on the train is that aloud?

If you're travelling within the origin/destination of your ticket, yes. You cannot travel further than Hartlepool or Sunderland.

What's the fleet list of trains at heat on

(17 Apr 2016, 4:13 pm)biglugs@yahoo.com wrote What's the fleet list of trains at heat on

GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT wrote GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

Never new 142034 was at heaton

(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT wrote GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

The Network Rail HST is based at Derby RTC

(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT wrote GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

Whats your souce for this out of interest? I ask because your list for the class 142's is certainly not big enough and 142034 is most definitely a Newton Heath unit. In general, I believe Heaton in the most part tends to get 142's ranging between 142015-142029(although I have never seen by either photos or with me own eyes 142028 ever in the North East so this could be a Newton Heath unit) and 142064-142068 have all been on Heaton diagrams.. 142001-142014 and 142030-142063(with the exception of 142050) tends to be based on North Western diagrams. The rest of your 142 list does seem correct though.

So basically ALL ex ATN 142's appear on North East diagrams whilst the poor folk in Manchester and other surrounding areas tend to get a lot more in way of bus seated pacers although some Heaton 142's can appear on North Western diagrams aswell as some Heaton 156's.

Your 156 list is more or less correct though apart from 156479 is a Heaton unit and 156481 I believe is also. 156482 seems to be on more North Eastern diagrams these days but the whole Northern unit allocations is rather complex. Also 142's can also be based at Neville Hill I believe aswell as any outside stabling depots.

(18 Apr 2016, 12:40 am)Bus_User wrote Whats your souce for this out of interest? I ask because your list for the class 142's is certainly not big enough and 142034 is most definitely a Newton Heath unit. In general, I believe Heaton in the most part tends to get 142's ranging between 142015-142029(although I have never seen by either photos or with me own eyes 142028 ever in the North East so this could be a Newton Heath unit) and 142064-142068 have all been on Heaton diagrams.. 142001-142014 and 142030-142063(with the exception of 142050) tends to be based on North Western diagrams. The rest of your 142 list does seem correct though.

So basically ALL ex ATN 142's appear on North East diagrams whilst the poor folk in Manchester and other surrounding areas tend to get a lot more in way of bus seated pacers although some Heaton 142's can appear on North Western diagrams aswell as some Heaton 156's.

Your 156 list is more or less correct though apart from 156479 is a Heaton unit and 156481 I believe is also. 156482 seems to be on more North Eastern diagrams these days but the whole Northern unit allocations is rather complex. Also 142's can also be based at Neville Hill I believe aswell as any outside stabling depots.

UK Rail Guide book by Colin Marsden

---

(17 Apr 2016, 8:25 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote The Network Rail HST is based at Derby RTC

Ah, thought it  was Heaton based

Yesterday due to a lack of Class 319s that wanted to work 150138 and 156427 made it onto the Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western Service. Have to say the 319s reliability is poor and its not uncommon for one to break down!

There's no fixed 'base' depots for Northern 156s or 142s. 142s often travel around and spend time at different depots (since IIRC every Northern depot signs them they can go anywhere).
York and Leeds/Neville Hill crews do not sign 156s (the majority don't anyway) so they don't go there.

New Measurement Train, as mentioned above, is 'based' (don't like using that term) at Derby - ie that's where most maintenance is carried out and where the majority of turns start out from and finish at.

It's also worth noting that various units or locos will not end up at a certain depot all the time, mostly unlike buses. GC stable at Ferme Park as well as Heaton.

Had a lady representing the Dft on my 156 earlier, asking to complete a survey in relation to passenger travel, trends etc.

Also (lost my scribbled id unfortunately), the 156 I was on, had a new accessible toilet, similar in size and shape to the ones on those on class 220 etc.

(19 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm)Andreos1 wrote Also (lost my scribbled id unfortunately), the 156 I was on, had a new accessible toilet, similar in size and shape to the ones on those on class 220 etc.

There's a fair number of 156s that have been refurbed to such standards now