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northern156

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1,094
12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am #581
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(12 Apr 2016, 9:48 am)Andreos1 I don't have an issue with them using Central on their displays/announcements. Particularly as the Northern trains stop at Manors.
Ideally Central would be preceded by Newcastle.
However, do you then precede Manors with Newcastle?

I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.
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northern156
12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am #581

(12 Apr 2016, 9:48 am)Andreos1 I don't have an issue with them using Central on their displays/announcements. Particularly as the Northern trains stop at Manors.
Ideally Central would be preceded by Newcastle.
However, do you then precede Manors with Newcastle?

I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

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Bus_User



101
12 Apr 2016, 12:19 pm #582
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(12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am)northern156 I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

I can't believe the displays they use can't be able to scroll, even GWR ones that I have seen on some 150's/153's have the ability to scroll across incase a destination is too large to fit on but once again Northern seems to lag behind on these things.

I don't have a real issue of adding "central" - I just don't see the point of it and I definitely don't see the point if they can't fit it on. Just keep it simple and just keep it as Newcastle.
Bus_User
12 Apr 2016, 12:19 pm #582

(12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am)northern156 I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

I can't believe the displays they use can't be able to scroll, even GWR ones that I have seen on some 150's/153's have the ability to scroll across incase a destination is too large to fit on but once again Northern seems to lag behind on these things.

I don't have a real issue of adding "central" - I just don't see the point of it and I definitely don't see the point if they can't fit it on. Just keep it simple and just keep it as Newcastle.

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Andreos1



14,232
12 Apr 2016, 8:21 pm #583
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(12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am)northern156 I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

Confusingly it is on the booking engines (ncz off memory) and is marked a Metro station. The trainline refer to it as Newcastle Central.
I haven't checked to see if it is cheaper or more expensive using that station over 'Newcastle'.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know a fair few people who refer to it as Central Station, regardless of any official titles.
It is the historic name of the place. The PTE even named the metro station after it.
Another case of marketing forcing a name change?
Edited 12 Apr 2016, 8:23 pm by Andreos1.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
12 Apr 2016, 8:21 pm #583

(12 Apr 2016, 10:25 am)northern156 I disagree. In no terms of railway context 'Newcastle Central' is used - in booking engines, tickets, live departures, even down to Network Rail TIPLOC codes etc.
If it has no place on the system (nor the likes of station signs) it should not be used. The PIS must have a character limit too because on the external destination display, it's "Newcastle Cent" - this abbreviation is worse than having Central on itself!

Manors is a separate station; even the Metro station has been. It should just be 'Newcastle' and 'Manors'.

Confusingly it is on the booking engines (ncz off memory) and is marked a Metro station. The trainline refer to it as Newcastle Central.
I haven't checked to see if it is cheaper or more expensive using that station over 'Newcastle'.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know a fair few people who refer to it as Central Station, regardless of any official titles.
It is the historic name of the place. The PTE even named the metro station after it.
Another case of marketing forcing a name change?

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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northern156

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1,094
12 Apr 2016, 10:24 pm #584
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(12 Apr 2016, 8:21 pm)Andreos1 Confusingly it is on the booking engines (ncz off memory) and is marked a Metro station. The trainline refer to it as Newcastle Central.
I haven't checked to see if it is cheaper or more expensive using that station over 'Newcastle'.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know a fair few people who refer to it as Central Station, regardless of any official titles.
It is the historic name of the place. The PTE even named the metro station after it.
Another case of marketing forcing a name change?

The CRS code for NCZ is "Newcastle (Metro)" which, to me, would be the likes of Monument - it's the most central location in Newcastle you can reach on the Metro. Directly before and after are South Gosforth and Heworth.

As I mentioned earlier - I'd say the 'Central' part is merely a local term; not a term operators should be using.
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northern156
12 Apr 2016, 10:24 pm #584

(12 Apr 2016, 8:21 pm)Andreos1 Confusingly it is on the booking engines (ncz off memory) and is marked a Metro station. The trainline refer to it as Newcastle Central.
I haven't checked to see if it is cheaper or more expensive using that station over 'Newcastle'.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know a fair few people who refer to it as Central Station, regardless of any official titles.
It is the historic name of the place. The PTE even named the metro station after it.
Another case of marketing forcing a name change?

The CRS code for NCZ is "Newcastle (Metro)" which, to me, would be the likes of Monument - it's the most central location in Newcastle you can reach on the Metro. Directly before and after are South Gosforth and Heworth.

As I mentioned earlier - I'd say the 'Central' part is merely a local term; not a term operators should be using.

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Andreos1



14,232
13 Apr 2016, 7:08 am #585
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(12 Apr 2016, 10:24 pm)northern156 The CRS code for NCZ is "Newcastle (Metro)" which, to me, would be the likes of Monument - it's the most central location in Newcastle you can reach on the Metro. Directly before and after are South Gosforth and Heworth.

As I mentioned earlier - I'd say the 'Central' part is merely a local term; not a term operators should be using.

It looks like CrossCountry need to change their booking system then, as they have (ncz) as Newcastle Central (metro).
It is the only one I have on my phone to check.

Central was always the name, going way back. Not just a local term.
Manors was Newcastle Manors.
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/manors_north/

There is almost 50 years of it being called Newcastle Central on timetables in that link.
I have no idea when the Central was removed from timetables and all of the other systems. I would say there is at least another 40 years worth of timetables that has it on.

However - there is no mention of it in Elswick timetables for the period.

If travelling south - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/g/gateshead_east/


To go back to the Northern displays. When booking on say the CrossCountry app and travelling to the region on a Northern train, do you assume you will arrive in the metro station?

On Saturday, some southerners were needing the metro and were tempted to stop on at Central, thinking they needed to alight at the Metrocentre.
The fact the NSA didnt mention the onward connections from Newcastle as some guards do - '...alight here for...', is maybe worth Northern looking at.
It may be more important than the actual display at the front of the train.
Edited 13 Apr 2016, 7:19 am by Andreos1.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
13 Apr 2016, 7:08 am #585

(12 Apr 2016, 10:24 pm)northern156 The CRS code for NCZ is "Newcastle (Metro)" which, to me, would be the likes of Monument - it's the most central location in Newcastle you can reach on the Metro. Directly before and after are South Gosforth and Heworth.

As I mentioned earlier - I'd say the 'Central' part is merely a local term; not a term operators should be using.

It looks like CrossCountry need to change their booking system then, as they have (ncz) as Newcastle Central (metro).
It is the only one I have on my phone to check.

Central was always the name, going way back. Not just a local term.
Manors was Newcastle Manors.
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/manors_north/

There is almost 50 years of it being called Newcastle Central on timetables in that link.
I have no idea when the Central was removed from timetables and all of the other systems. I would say there is at least another 40 years worth of timetables that has it on.

However - there is no mention of it in Elswick timetables for the period.

If travelling south - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/g/gateshead_east/


To go back to the Northern displays. When booking on say the CrossCountry app and travelling to the region on a Northern train, do you assume you will arrive in the metro station?

On Saturday, some southerners were needing the metro and were tempted to stop on at Central, thinking they needed to alight at the Metrocentre.
The fact the NSA didnt mention the onward connections from Newcastle as some guards do - '...alight here for...', is maybe worth Northern looking at.
It may be more important than the actual display at the front of the train.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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northern156

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13 Apr 2016, 11:50 pm #586
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I didn't realise it used to be called it quite a lot Andreos - I take back my comments and apologise!

Sunderland is indeed set up like the way you mention - you arrive at the same platform as the Metro. This could bring confusion but seeing as it's all one station with an advertised interchange between National Rail and Metro, it shouldn't really.
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northern156
13 Apr 2016, 11:50 pm #586

I didn't realise it used to be called it quite a lot Andreos - I take back my comments and apologise!

Sunderland is indeed set up like the way you mention - you arrive at the same platform as the Metro. This could bring confusion but seeing as it's all one station with an advertised interchange between National Rail and Metro, it shouldn't really.

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Michael



19,175
14 Apr 2016, 7:41 am #587
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According to the Northern train i'm on, we are approching Seaham...

Have they changed the name of Heworth to Seaham? Wink
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
Michael
14 Apr 2016, 7:41 am #587

According to the Northern train i'm on, we are approching Seaham...

Have they changed the name of Heworth to Seaham? Wink

Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.

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biglugs@yahoo.com



1,506
14 Apr 2016, 3:57 pm #588
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(14 Apr 2016, 7:41 am)Michael According to the Northern train i'm on, we are approching Seaham...

Have they changed the name of Heworth to Seaham? Wink

Same happened to me
Train is 156463
4842
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biglugs@yahoo.com
14 Apr 2016, 3:57 pm #588

(14 Apr 2016, 7:41 am)Michael According to the Northern train i'm on, we are approching Seaham...

Have they changed the name of Heworth to Seaham? Wink

Same happened to me
Train is 156463

4842
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biglugs@yahoo.com



1,506
15 Apr 2016, 6:59 pm #589
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Question
If I bought a return on the northern train Sunderland to Hartlepool but got of at seaham then back on the train is that aloud?
4842
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biglugs@yahoo.com
15 Apr 2016, 6:59 pm #589

Question
If I bought a return on the northern train Sunderland to Hartlepool but got of at seaham then back on the train is that aloud?

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northern156

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1,094
15 Apr 2016, 7:56 pm #590
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If you're travelling within the origin/destination of your ticket, yes. You cannot travel further than Hartlepool or Sunderland.
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northern156
15 Apr 2016, 7:56 pm #590

If you're travelling within the origin/destination of your ticket, yes. You cannot travel further than Hartlepool or Sunderland.

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biglugs@yahoo.com



1,506
17 Apr 2016, 4:13 pm #591
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What's the fleet list of trains at heat on
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biglugs@yahoo.com
17 Apr 2016, 4:13 pm #591

What's the fleet list of trains at heat on

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NK53 TKT

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2,441
17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm #592
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(17 Apr 2016, 4:13 pm)biglugs@yahoo.com What's the fleet list of trains at heat on

GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN
NK53 TKT
17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm #592

(17 Apr 2016, 4:13 pm)biglugs@yahoo.com What's the fleet list of trains at heat on

GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

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biglugs@yahoo.com



1,506
17 Apr 2016, 6:09 pm #593
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(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

Never new 142034 was at heaton
4842
Best bus ever
biglugs@yahoo.com
17 Apr 2016, 6:09 pm #593

(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

Never new 142034 was at heaton

4842
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South Tyne Lad

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1,777
17 Apr 2016, 8:25 pm #594
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(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN


The Network Rail HST is based at Derby RTC
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South Tyne Lad
17 Apr 2016, 8:25 pm #594

(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN


The Network Rail HST is based at Derby RTC

My New Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/140662069@N02/ - Posts every Weekend at the minimum Smile

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Bus_User



101
18 Apr 2016, 12:40 am #595
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(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

Whats your souce for this out of interest? I ask because your list for the class 142's is certainly not big enough and 142034 is most definitely a Newton Heath unit. In general, I believe Heaton in the most part tends to get 142's ranging between 142015-142029(although I have never seen by either photos or with me own eyes 142028 ever in the North East so this could be a Newton Heath unit) and 142064-142068 have all been on Heaton diagrams.. 142001-142014 and 142030-142063(with the exception of 142050) tends to be based on North Western diagrams. The rest of your 142 list does seem correct though.

So basically ALL ex ATN 142's appear on North East diagrams whilst the poor folk in Manchester and other surrounding areas tend to get a lot more in way of bus seated pacers although some Heaton 142's can appear on North Western diagrams aswell as some Heaton 156's.

Your 156 list is more or less correct though apart from 156479 is a Heaton unit and 156481 I believe is also. 156482 seems to be on more North Eastern diagrams these days but the whole Northern unit allocations is rather complex. Also 142's can also be based at Neville Hill I believe aswell as any outside stabling depots.
Bus_User
18 Apr 2016, 12:40 am #595

(17 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm)NK53 TKT GCT:
Class 43's
43423
43465
43467
43468
43480
43484
Class 180's
180101 
180105
180107
180112
180114
Northern:
Class 142's
142020-142022
142024-142026
142034
142050
142065
142066
142070
142071
142078
142079
142084
142086-142096
Class 156's
156438
156443
156444
156448
156451
156454
156463
156469
156475
156480
156484
156490
Network Rail HST TEST TRAIN

Whats your souce for this out of interest? I ask because your list for the class 142's is certainly not big enough and 142034 is most definitely a Newton Heath unit. In general, I believe Heaton in the most part tends to get 142's ranging between 142015-142029(although I have never seen by either photos or with me own eyes 142028 ever in the North East so this could be a Newton Heath unit) and 142064-142068 have all been on Heaton diagrams.. 142001-142014 and 142030-142063(with the exception of 142050) tends to be based on North Western diagrams. The rest of your 142 list does seem correct though.

So basically ALL ex ATN 142's appear on North East diagrams whilst the poor folk in Manchester and other surrounding areas tend to get a lot more in way of bus seated pacers although some Heaton 142's can appear on North Western diagrams aswell as some Heaton 156's.

Your 156 list is more or less correct though apart from 156479 is a Heaton unit and 156481 I believe is also. 156482 seems to be on more North Eastern diagrams these days but the whole Northern unit allocations is rather complex. Also 142's can also be based at Neville Hill I believe aswell as any outside stabling depots.

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NK53 TKT

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2,441
18 Apr 2016, 5:59 am #596
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(18 Apr 2016, 12:40 am)Bus_User Whats your souce for this out of interest? I ask because your list for the class 142's is certainly not big enough and 142034 is most definitely a Newton Heath unit. In general, I believe Heaton in the most part tends to get 142's ranging between 142015-142029(although I have never seen by either photos or with me own eyes 142028 ever in the North East so this could be a Newton Heath unit) and 142064-142068 have all been on Heaton diagrams.. 142001-142014 and 142030-142063(with the exception of 142050) tends to be based on North Western diagrams. The rest of your 142 list does seem correct though.

So basically ALL ex ATN 142's appear on North East diagrams whilst the poor folk in Manchester and other surrounding areas tend to get a lot more in way of bus seated pacers although some Heaton 142's can appear on North Western diagrams aswell as some Heaton 156's.

Your 156 list is more or less correct though apart from 156479 is a Heaton unit and 156481 I believe is also. 156482 seems to be on more North Eastern diagrams these days but the whole Northern unit allocations is rather complex. Also 142's can also be based at Neville Hill I believe aswell as any outside stabling depots.

UK Rail Guide book by Colin Marsden
(17 Apr 2016, 8:25 pm)South Tyne Lad The Network Rail HST is based at Derby RTC

Ah, thought it  was Heaton based
Edited 18 Apr 2016, 6:00 am by NK53 TKT.
NK53 TKT
18 Apr 2016, 5:59 am #596

(18 Apr 2016, 12:40 am)Bus_User Whats your souce for this out of interest? I ask because your list for the class 142's is certainly not big enough and 142034 is most definitely a Newton Heath unit. In general, I believe Heaton in the most part tends to get 142's ranging between 142015-142029(although I have never seen by either photos or with me own eyes 142028 ever in the North East so this could be a Newton Heath unit) and 142064-142068 have all been on Heaton diagrams.. 142001-142014 and 142030-142063(with the exception of 142050) tends to be based on North Western diagrams. The rest of your 142 list does seem correct though.

So basically ALL ex ATN 142's appear on North East diagrams whilst the poor folk in Manchester and other surrounding areas tend to get a lot more in way of bus seated pacers although some Heaton 142's can appear on North Western diagrams aswell as some Heaton 156's.

Your 156 list is more or less correct though apart from 156479 is a Heaton unit and 156481 I believe is also. 156482 seems to be on more North Eastern diagrams these days but the whole Northern unit allocations is rather complex. Also 142's can also be based at Neville Hill I believe aswell as any outside stabling depots.

UK Rail Guide book by Colin Marsden
(17 Apr 2016, 8:25 pm)South Tyne Lad The Network Rail HST is based at Derby RTC

Ah, thought it  was Heaton based

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Y961 XBU



340
19 Apr 2016, 9:34 am #597
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Yesterday due to a lack of Class 319s that wanted to work 150138 and 156427 made it onto the Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western Service. Have to say the 319s reliability is poor and its not uncommon for one to break down!
Admin of The 2002 Bus Blog
Y961 XBU
19 Apr 2016, 9:34 am #597

Yesterday due to a lack of Class 319s that wanted to work 150138 and 156427 made it onto the Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western Service. Have to say the 319s reliability is poor and its not uncommon for one to break down!

Admin of The 2002 Bus Blog

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northern156

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19 Apr 2016, 4:24 pm #598
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There's no fixed 'base' depots for Northern 156s or 142s. 142s often travel around and spend time at different depots (since IIRC every Northern depot signs them they can go anywhere).
York and Leeds/Neville Hill crews do not sign 156s (the majority don't anyway) so they don't go there.

New Measurement Train, as mentioned above, is 'based' (don't like using that term) at Derby - ie that's where most maintenance is carried out and where the majority of turns start out from and finish at.

It's also worth noting that various units or locos will not end up at a certain depot all the time, mostly unlike buses. GC stable at Ferme Park as well as Heaton.
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northern156
19 Apr 2016, 4:24 pm #598

There's no fixed 'base' depots for Northern 156s or 142s. 142s often travel around and spend time at different depots (since IIRC every Northern depot signs them they can go anywhere).
York and Leeds/Neville Hill crews do not sign 156s (the majority don't anyway) so they don't go there.

New Measurement Train, as mentioned above, is 'based' (don't like using that term) at Derby - ie that's where most maintenance is carried out and where the majority of turns start out from and finish at.

It's also worth noting that various units or locos will not end up at a certain depot all the time, mostly unlike buses. GC stable at Ferme Park as well as Heaton.

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Andreos1



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19 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm #599
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Had a lady representing the Dft on my 156 earlier, asking to complete a survey in relation to passenger travel, trends etc.

Also (lost my scribbled id unfortunately), the 156 I was on, had a new accessible toilet, similar in size and shape to the ones on those on class 220 etc.
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Andreos1
19 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm #599

Had a lady representing the Dft on my 156 earlier, asking to complete a survey in relation to passenger travel, trends etc.

Also (lost my scribbled id unfortunately), the 156 I was on, had a new accessible toilet, similar in size and shape to the ones on those on class 220 etc.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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northern156

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19 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm #600
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(19 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm)Andreos1 Also (lost my scribbled id unfortunately), the 156 I was on, had a new accessible toilet, similar in size and shape to the ones on those on class 220 etc.

There's a fair number of 156s that have been refurbed to such standards now Smile
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northern156
19 Apr 2016, 5:19 pm #600

(19 Apr 2016, 4:57 pm)Andreos1 Also (lost my scribbled id unfortunately), the 156 I was on, had a new accessible toilet, similar in size and shape to the ones on those on class 220 etc.

There's a fair number of 156s that have been refurbed to such standards now Smile

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