Just when I was about to comment on the performance, yesterday, of the B5's on the A19 now we're going to be saddled with this mis-mash of deckers until the coaches get here. The X9/10 has always been the poor relation.

Just when I was about to comment on the performance, yesterday, of the B5's on the A19 now we're going to be saddled with this mis-mash of deckers until the coaches get here. The X9/10 has always been the poor relation.

Given that there's been a breakdown on the X9/X10 every day this week (apart from today when Volvo B9s have been allocated), I thought you'd welcome an allocation of vehicles which are (hopefully) more reliable, in the interim. No pleasing some.

Given that there's been a breakdown on the X9/X10 every day this week (apart from today when Volvo B9s have been allocated), I thought you'd welcome an allocation of vehicles which are (hopefully) more reliable, in the interim. No pleasing some.

Hopefully with the mechanical upgrades and them running on a less demanding route, the B5s might actually become reliable! 

What's the speed limit on the B5s? I assume they'll be able to go faster than the StreetDecks on the motorway, or will they be reduced to 48mph

Hopefully with the mechanical upgrades and them running on a less demanding route, the B5s might actually become reliable! 

What's the speed limit on the B5s? I assume they'll be able to go faster than the StreetDecks on the motorway, or will they be reduced to 48mph

Well, that's the logic!

They're limited to 95km/h (59mph).

Don't know whether I'm not pleased or otherwise with regard to this arrangement. Seems strange that GNE have gone with this move now as opposed to September when the coaches are available. On the flip side of that I don't know just how unreliable the B5's have been these past weeks. Maybe that's the reason?

Well, that's the logic!

They're limited to 95km/h (59mph).

So in theory they should be able to do the CLS to Low Fell stretch in 52 seconds less? You're going to have to change the NSA!

Semi-related; ahead of the coaches transferring north, X9|X10 branded Volvo B5TLs 6308 - 6314 have now been taken out of service at Riverside, and generic X-lines branded 6334/35 have transferred to Chester-le-Street.

6308 - 6314 have been taken out of service to be repainted and also to allow for some mechanical upgrades to be completed prior to their transfer to Chester-le-Street, ironing out a couple of the recent niggles they've had while operating the X9/X10 services. Taking their place on the X9/X10 services until the coaches transfer north are Volvo B9TLs (6043/44 from Riverside's own fleet allocation, 6048 from Hexham's allocation, 6084-86 from Deptford's allocation and 6099/6100 from Percy Main's allocation).

Go North East: 6085 / NL63YHN by Daniel Graham, on Flickr

Assuming that the ones selected are the most (or some of the most) reliable examples, or best performers? As you've said later on I hope this results in a better service reliability than has been provided by B5s recently.

Semi-related; ahead of the coaches transferring north, X9|X10 branded Volvo B5TLs 6308 - 6314 have now been taken out of service at Riverside, and generic X-lines branded 6334/35 have transferred to Chester-le-Street.

6308 - 6314 have been taken out of service to be repainted and also to allow for some mechanical upgrades to be completed prior to their transfer to Chester-le-Street, ironing out a couple of the recent niggles they've had while operating the X9/X10 services. Taking their place on the X9/X10 services until the coaches transfer north are Volvo B9TLs (6043/44 from Riverside's own fleet allocation, 6048 from Hexham's allocation, 6084-86 from Deptford's allocation and 6099/6100 from Percy Main's allocation).

Go North East: 6085 / NL63YHN by Daniel Graham, on Flickr

Will this allow 2 more X21 streetdecks to be withdrawn for repainting?

Assuming that the ones selected are the most (or some of the most) reliable examples, or best performers? As you've said later on I hope this results in a better service reliability than has been provided by B5s recently.

6085 likes a good overheat, not sure if that’s just not topping up the coolant in the morning though.

6085 likes a good overheat, not sure if that’s just not topping up the coolant in the morning though.

6099 is quick enough, got to be careful slowing down as the brakes are unexpectedly good

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I would have thought it would make more sense to do one B5, one StreetDeck and one Streetlite at a time, that way they can all get switched around at the same time. I suppose it depends on how fast they can turn around the repaints.

Does anyone know what the capacity of Saltmeadows is for repaints?

I'm sure it is 1 spray shop so if vehicles are rubbed down and prepared for repaint they could in effect paint 2 buses a day depending on how it takes to repaint a bus of course particularly with them being painted into either a 2 tone livery or in the case of the X-Lines 4 tones.

I'm Dan or Citaro5284 would be able to clarify this though.

6099 is quick enough, got to be careful slowing down as the brakes are unexpectedly good

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6099 and 6100 are my two favourite buses I've driven, 6099 less than 6100 because it's brakes were a little bit more grabby, the brake pedal seems to be mounted differently to the other B9s which was a bit weird, still a good bus though.

What made GoNE consider the Volvo B5TL back in 2017? I know there wasn't really much suitable alternative to choose from other than the ADL E400MMC or Scania ADL E400MMC.

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I do think however that the B5TL's should be fine on the X21 given the scenario that faced 6043-6048. They should've been cascaded down at 3 year old.

I literally don't think any modern standard (XLB too much of a bus) double deck vehicle could cope with the X9 & X10. The OM936 StreetDeck might prove otherwise however but coaches are the best way forward.

What made GoNE consider the Volvo B5TL back in 2017? I know there wasn't really much suitable alternative to choose from other than the ADL E400MMC or Scania ADL E400MMC.

I’d speculate promises from Volvo that the B5TL was a suitable replacement to the B9TL with its twin turbos and fancy tech. Clearly not in the same league when it comes to hauling double deckers at speed. It’s all well and good having the same performance, but useless if it can’t be had reliably, and reliability would be hard to test on a demonstration, you’d have to rely on promises from Volvo. 

It’s a shame really, Volvo have effectively lost their hold as being the go to double decker chassis in the UK due to the B5TL being nowhere near as good as it’s predecessors.

I’d speculate promises from Volvo that the B5TL was a suitable replacement to the B9TL with its twin turbos and fancy tech. Clearly not in the same league when it comes to hauling double deckers at speed. It’s all well and good having the same performance, but useless if it can’t be had reliably, and reliability would be hard to test on a demonstration, you’d have to rely on promises from Volvo. 

It’s a shame really, Volvo have effectively lost their hold as being the go to double decker chassis in the UK due to the B5TL being nowhere near as good as it’s predecessors.

I wonder what part of the engine makes them so unreliable.

Clearly it's not a major failure otherwise they'd be off the road for longer, so it must be something small, but that keeps recurring

Just imagine how extra fantastic these coaches are going to seem to passengers after a few months of B9s.

I wonder what part of the engine makes them so unreliable.

Clearly it's not a major failure otherwise they'd be off the road for longer, so it must be something small, but that keeps recurring

Probably due to the smaller engine, the B9s engine was very under stressed for its application, 260ps from a massive 9.6 litre engine, the same basic engine making 380ps in the B9R coaches just shows how under-stressed it was. A little 5 litre, same size you get in streetlites afterall, doing similar work to a 9 litre+ just gives more potential of going wrong, even if it’s fundamentally a good design, which I’m sure it is being a Volvo.

Probably due to the smaller engine, the B9s engine was very under stressed for its application, 260ps from a massive 9.6 litre engine, the same basic engine making 380ps in the B9R coaches just shows how under-stressed it was. A little 5 litre, same size you get in streetlites afterall, doing similar work to a 9 litre+ just gives more potential of going wrong, even if it’s fundamentally a good design, which I’m sure it is being a Volvo.

I'm not a mechanic, but If it was down to the engine being over stressed, I'd think it would be more of a catastrophic failure than what actually happens. 

To me, if the engine is being over stressed on a motorway journey, that is down to the gearing rather than the engine, once a vehicle is on the go, it takes very little power to keep it moving. It's the constant stop-start that puts the most stress on an engine.

Just imagine how extra fantastic these coaches are going to seem to passengers after a few months of B9s.

You’ll get a job coming out with things like that[emoji6]


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I'm not a mechanic, but If it was down to the engine being over stressed, I'd think it would be more of a catastrophic failure than what actually happens. 

To me, if the engine is being over stressed on a motorway journey, that is down to the gearing rather than the engine, once a vehicle is on the go, it takes very little power to keep it moving. It's the constant stop-start that puts the most stress on an engine.

On the B5TLs & B9TLs (B9s were 310BHP), it will possibly be down to gear ratios & torque more than likely.

I’d speculate promises from Volvo that the B5TL was a suitable replacement to the B9TL with its twin turbos and fancy tech. Clearly not in the same league when it comes to hauling double deckers at speed. It’s all well and good having the same performance, but useless if it can’t be had reliably, and reliability would be hard to test on a demonstration, you’d have to rely on promises from Volvo. 

It’s a shame really, Volvo have effectively lost their hold as being the go to double decker chassis in the UK due to the B5TL being nowhere near as good as it’s predecessors.

I can see the adverts now.

'have you been missold a bus recently? If you have, call 0800 805 805 for a chat with one of our friendly advisors. We can tell you straight away, whether you have a chance of claiming thousands in compensation after being missold a bus - on a nowin/no fee status'.

'we make your BUSiness, our business'.

I'll get my coat.

Semi-related; ahead of the coaches transferring north, X9|X10 branded Volvo B5TLs 6308 - 6314 have now been taken out of service at Riverside, and generic X-lines branded 6334/35 have transferred to Chester-le-Street.

6308 - 6314 have been taken out of service to be repainted and also to allow for some mechanical upgrades to be completed prior to their transfer to Chester-le-Street, ironing out a couple of the recent niggles they've had while operating the X9/X10 services. Taking their place on the X9/X10 services until the coaches transfer north are Volvo B9TLs (6043/44 from Riverside's own fleet allocation, 6048 from Hexham's allocation, 6084-86 from Deptford's allocation and 6099/6100 from Percy Main's allocation).

Go North East: 6085 / NL63YHN by Daniel Graham, on Flickr

100% should of got the 3 open toppers on there, going down the A19 with no roof! The Dream.

100% should of got the 3 open toppers on there, going down the A19 with no roof! The Dream.

You'd get a good view of the crash you'd inevitably drive past!

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Moderator note: All of the speculation posts about the new ADL Enviro400s and StreetDecks and consequent speculation on service changes has been moved here.

I wonder what GNE's stance be on seatbelts for X9/X10 passengers once the coaches are rolled out

I never liked the idea of the B5 having such a small engine, it’s ridiculous and provides a false economy. What they should have done was to redesign the B9 if anything. The B9 with its Renault engine is such a robust vehicle and despite it being thirsty it pays you in its reliability.

Had Firstbus been successful in their attempt to get Wright to body the N230UD, you would of had a real bus there. It’s a shame because on a route such as the X9 and 10 no manufacturers are going to make a bus near reliable for its needs and I think the Coaches are the way forward.

I never liked the idea of the B5 having such a small engine, it’s ridiculous and provides a false economy. What they should have done was to redesign the B9 if anything. The B9 with its Renault engine is such a robust vehicle and despite it being thirsty it pays you in its reliability.

Had Firstbus been successful in their attempt to get Wright to body the N230UD, you would of had a real bus there. It’s a shame because on a route such as the X9 and 10 no manufacturers are going to make a bus near reliable for its needs and I think the Coaches are the way forward.

The thing is though, the B9 wasn't exactly the pinnacle of reliability either, the X9/X10 pretty much killed those as well!

The B5s seem to be fairly rock solid with other operators on less demanding routes, plus GNE's Hybrid B5s seem to have done quite well.

The B5s have been a particularly weak link in the chain of buses on the X10. The Volvo Ollys, then B7s, then B9s all had about 7 years tenure on the route before being replaced about half-way through their service life, which sounds about right for the nature of the X10. The B5s haven’t managed 3 years.

I agree the interdecks are the right choice for the X10 right now. Just hope it works out for GNE as it’ll be hard to spin a future downgrade to buses should the need occur.

Semi-related; ahead of the coaches transferring north, X9|X10 branded Volvo B5TLs 6308 - 6314 have now been taken out of service at Riverside, and generic X-lines branded 6334/35 have transferred to Chester-le-Street.

6308 - 6314 have been taken out of service to be repainted and also to allow for some mechanical upgrades to be completed prior to their transfer to Chester-le-Street, ironing out a couple of the recent niggles they've had while operating the X9/X10 services. Taking their place on the X9/X10 services until the coaches transfer north are Volvo B9TLs (6043/44 from Riverside's own fleet allocation, 6048 from Hexham's allocation, 6084-86 from Deptford's allocation and 6099/6100 from Percy Main's allocation).

Go North East: 6085 / NL63YHN by Daniel Graham, on Flickr

6086 on the X10 this afternoon - https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalark...ed-public/

The B5s have been a particularly weak link in the chain of buses on the X10. The Volvo Ollys, then B7s, then B9s all had about 7 years tenure on the route before being replaced about half-way through their service life, which sounds about right for the nature of the X10. The B5s haven’t managed 3 years.

 I agree the interdecks are the right choice for the X10 right now. Just hope it works out for GNE as it’ll be hard to spin a future downgrade to buses should the need occur. 

I'm sure the marketing and questionaire people are on it already! Sample size 6... 95% responds are in favour of a larger vehicle.