+- North East Buses (https://northeastbuses.co.uk)
+-- Forum: Local Bus Scene (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Management & Infrastructure (https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Thread: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 (/showthread.php?tid=3321)
Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Dan - 14 Mar 2021
Nexus has invited operators to tender for a number of new contracts, which would commence operation from 16 May 2021.
In all instances, the 'quality' weighting (for better features such as contactless payment methods, USB charging points, Wi-Fi and next stop audio-visual announcements) has been removed, in favour of more weighting towards cost.
These are:
- Service 8 (South Hylton - The Docks): 1 PVR daily (evenings and all day Sunday), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
- Service 12 (South Shields - The Lonnen): 1 PVR daily (evenings only), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Stagecoach North East.
- Service 79 (Hall Lane - Barnwell): 1 PVR Mon-Sat, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 36 - currently operated by JH Coaches.
- Service 79/79A (Barnwell - Easington Lane): 2 PVR (Mon-Sat evenings and all day Sunday), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Services 93/94 and 97 (Gateshead services): 4 PVR (Early morning and late evening journeys), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 36 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Services 135/136 (Downhill/Hylton Circular): 3 PVR (Early morning journeys), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Service 592 (Roker - Doxford International): 1 PVR weekdays only, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
- Service 593 (Pallion - Doxford International): 1 PVR weekdays only, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
It's quite disappointing to see that in this latest batch of tenders, neither of those are deemed important enough (with the same timetables from last year being used again, and the removal of incentive for operators to provide a better quality service).
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - MurdnunoC - 14 Mar 2021
GCT need to hope that they aren't 'punished' by a reduction of vehicles allowed on the O licence at the PI next week then.
I can see them getting most of the work.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - streetdeckfan - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:10 pm)Dan wrote Nexus has invited operators to tender for a number of new contracts, which would commence operation from 16 May 2021.
In all instances, the 'quality' weighting (for better features such as contactless payment methods, USB charging points, Wi-Fi and next stop audio-visual announcements) has been removed, in favour of more weighting towards cost.
These are:
There has been lots of discussion on this forum recently regarding the development of bus networks, and what operators do to improve patronage and drive growth on their bus services. There has been a lot of suggestion that the use of better on-board features such as free Wi-Fi, USB charging points and contactless payments help drive growth, whilst next stop announcements improve accessibility. There has also been some suggestions that this isn't enough, and operators should be looking to improve their networks by providing better services which are more catered towards the current market.
- Service 8 (South Hylton - The Docks): 1 PVR daily (evenings and all day Sunday), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
- Service 12 (South Shields - The Lonnen): 1 PVR daily (evenings only), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Stagecoach North East.
- Service 79 (Hall Lane - Barnwell): 1 PVR Mon-Sat, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 36 - currently operated by JH Coaches.
- Service 79/79A (Barnwell - Easington Lane): 2 PVR (Mon-Sat evenings and all day Sunday), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Services 93/94 and 97 (Gateshead services): 4 PVR (Early morning and late evening journeys), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 36 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Services 135/136 (Downhill/Hylton Circular): 3 PVR (Early morning journeys), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Service 592 (Roker - Doxford International): 1 PVR weekdays only, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
- Service 593 (Pallion - Doxford International): 1 PVR weekdays only, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
It's quite disappointing to see that in this latest batch of tenders, neither of those are deemed important enough (with the same timetables from last year being used again, and the removal of incentive for operators to provide a better quality service).
To me, the fact that NSA still isn't required on contracted services (or even taken into consideration) is borderline criminal.
It's not like other 'features', such as USB or WiFi where it's a convenience, for some people it can be the difference between a bus being usable and not.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - busmanT - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:10 pm)Dan wrote Nexus has invited operators to tender for a number of new contracts, which would commence operation from 16 May 2021.I would have expected the quality items to be part of the standard contract specification by now!
In all instances, the 'quality' weighting (for better features such as contactless payment methods, USB charging points, Wi-Fi and next stop audio-visual announcements) has been removed, in favour of more weighting towards cost.
These are:
There has been lots of discussion on this forum recently regarding the development of bus networks, and what operators do to improve patronage and drive growth on their bus services. There has been a lot of suggestion that the use of better on-board features such as free Wi-Fi, USB charging points and contactless payments help drive growth, whilst next stop announcements improve accessibility. There has also been some suggestions that this isn't enough, and operators should be looking to improve their networks by providing better services which are more catered towards the current market.
- Service 8 (South Hylton - The Docks): 1 PVR daily (evenings and all day Sunday), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
- Service 12 (South Shields - The Lonnen): 1 PVR daily (evenings only), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Stagecoach North East.
- Service 79 (Hall Lane - Barnwell): 1 PVR Mon-Sat, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 36 - currently operated by JH Coaches.
- Service 79/79A (Barnwell - Easington Lane): 2 PVR (Mon-Sat evenings and all day Sunday), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Services 93/94 and 97 (Gateshead services): 4 PVR (Early morning and late evening journeys), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 36 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Services 135/136 (Downhill/Hylton Circular): 3 PVR (Early morning journeys), Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Go North East.
- Service 592 (Roker - Doxford International): 1 PVR weekdays only, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
- Service 593 (Pallion - Doxford International): 1 PVR weekdays only, Euro 5 vehicle with a minimum capacity of 23 - currently operated by Gateshead Central Taxis.
It's quite disappointing to see that in this latest batch of tenders, neither of those are deemed important enough (with the same timetables from last year being used again, and the removal of incentive for operators to provide a better quality service).
Times must be hard I suppose, as the secured services must have lost at least as many passengers during COVID-19 as the commercial ones. Many of these were no doubt low usage services before the pandemic.
Are there also contract changes from a date later in March (or have I missed the posts)?
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Michael - 14 Mar 2021
Shocking that NSA isn't included, no doubt that means Gateshead Central Taxi's will win most of them..... god help everyone who needs the NSA....
What does weighting towards cost mean?, the weight of the bus against the offer?
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Adrian - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote To me, the fact that NSA still isn't required on contracted services (or even taken into consideration) is borderline criminal.
It's not like other 'features', such as USB or WiFi where it's a convenience, for some people it can be the difference between a bus being usable and not.
It's not only not required, but Nexus are not including it as part of their equality assessment, when they award the contract. Despite it having a clear material impact on those who are either blind or partially sighted.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Clifton Hignett III - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:21 pm)MurdnunoC wrote GCT need to hope that they aren't 'punished' by a reduction of vehicles allowed on the O licence at the PI next week then.
I can see them getting most of the work.
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a 'GCT'?
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - peter - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:47 pm)Clifton Hignett III wrote Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a 'GCT'?
Gateshead Central Taxis - the name of an operator in the region
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Clifton Hignett III - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:48 pm)peter wrote Gateshead Central Taxis - the name of an operator in the region
Oh. I don't recall them being around when I was last in the region.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Adrian - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:28 pm)busmanT wrote I would have expected the quality items to be part of the standard contract specification by now!
Times must be hard I suppose, as the secured services must have lost at least as many passengers during COVID-19 as the commercial ones. Many of these were no doubt low usage services before the pandemic.
Are there also contract changes from a date later in March (or have I missed the posts)?
Sounds like they've moved completely to the 'Lowest Cost' criteria rather than the usual 'Most Economically Advantageous Tender' criteria. I appreciate that there are long-standing funding issues, as a result of limited resource from central Government, but I'm unsure how Nexus view this as the best use of public finance. Lowest cost often offers very little for those that use these services.
Extremely disappointing, given that these contracts will commence at a time when there should be collaborative working between operators and local authorities to encourage people back on to public transport.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Michael - 14 Mar 2021
Go North East are in quite a good position to win some of those contracts though, I would imagine they have buses to fill the contracted services they currently don't have.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - MurdnunoC - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:58 pm)Michael wrote Go North East are in quite a good position to win some of those contracts though, I would imagine they have buses to fill the contracted services they currently don't have.
I wouldn't have thought so unless they somehow managed to undercut GCT when submitting their tender.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - streetdeckfan - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 5:44 pm)Michael wrote Shocking that NSA isn't included, no doubt that means Gateshead Central Taxi's will win most of them..... god help everyone who needs the NSA....
What does weighting towards cost mean?, the weight of the bus against the offer?
It means that cost is going to be the primary measure for awarding the contract.
Put simply,
GNE could offer to run the services using brand new electric buses, with contactless payments, next stop annoucements, free WiFi, USB, air conditioning, leather seats, tables, and free refreshments for £10 (completely made up number)
GCT could offer to run the services using older vehicles where the nearest you'll get to a next stop announcement is getting "last stop" shouted at you by the driver, with absolutely no creature comforts for £9 (again, completely made up)
Because they don't take any of the 'quality' into consideration, GCT would likely win the contract because they were cheaper.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Clifton Hignett III - 14 Mar 2021
The more I hear about this GCT company the more I think that they are a less than reputable bus operator. Am I correct?
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Adrian - 14 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 6:09 pm)streetdeckfan wrote It means that cost is going to be the primary measure for awarding the contract.
Put simply,
GNE could offer to run the services using brand new electric buses, with contactless payments, next stop annoucements, free WiFi, USB, air conditioning, leather seats, tables, and free refreshments for £10 (completely made up number)
GCT could offer to run the services using older vehicles where the nearest you'll get to a next stop announcement is getting "last stop" shouted at you by the driver, with absolutely no creature comforts for £9 (again, completely made up)
Because they don't take any of the 'quality' into consideration, GCT would likely win the contract because they were cheaper.
In their own words:
"5.23 The criteria on which Nexus shall base the award of public contracts shall be either:
Most Economically Advantageous Tender - when the award is made to the tender most economically advantageous from the point of view of Nexus. This involves various criteria linked to the subject matter of the public contract in question (e.g. quality, price, technical merit, aesthetic and functional characteristics, environmental characteristics, running costs, cost effectiveness, after sales service and technical assistance, delivery date and delivery period or period of completion); or
Lowest Cost - Lowest cost should be calculated on a whole life basis."
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - PH - BQA - 15 Mar 2021
I know it's not what independents want to hear, but personally I always have more faith if a big company (GNE, ANE, SNE) are operating a contracted route than a smaller company.
More flexibility due to a larger fleet, the bus is generally presented better (though there are some cracking independents in the region, the likes of GCT, Scarlet Band, Rural Link/PCL leave a lot to be desired), there's a better chance of NSAs/WiFi etc, they all have apps to track the bus, the driver will be somewhat professional. Again, there will be exceptions, but I've had/heard of far too many poor experiences with independents to want them to get work ahead of a more reliable, larger, company.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Ambassador - 15 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 6:09 pm)streetdeckfan wrote It means that cost is going to be the primary measure for awarding the contract.
Put simply,
GNE could offer to run the services using brand new electric buses, with contactless payments, next stop annoucements, free WiFi, USB, air conditioning, leather seats, tables, and free refreshments for £10 (completely made up number)
GCT could offer to run the services using older vehicles where the nearest you'll get to a next stop announcement is getting "last stop" shouted at you by the driver, with absolutely no creature comforts for £9 (again, completely made up)
Because they don't take any of the 'quality' into consideration, GCT would likely win the contract because they were cheaper.
Hello, Joe Taxpayer here.
I hear these services are rarely used and are point A-B and the people who use it will use it regardless of it being a Ford Fiesta or a Limousine.
On behalf of the overwhelming majority of people who pay taxes and don't go near secured services, please spend less of my taxes on this and just ensure that the people get from A-B at the cheapest option possible. Why I am paying for people to use wifi and have tables?
Best Wishes
Taxpayer
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Andreos1 - 15 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 6:02 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I wouldn't have thought so unless they somehow managed to undercut GCT when submitting their tender.
GNE would be in an even better position to operate it if they took on the commercial risk and took their daytime services on, instead of deciding there's not enough brass in it for them
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - streetdeckfan - 15 Mar 2021
(15 Mar 2021, 3:43 pm)Ambassador wrote Hello, Joe Taxpayer here.
I hear these services are rarely used and are point A-B and the people who use it will use it regardless of it being a Ford Fiesta or a Limousine.
On behalf of the overwhelming majority of people who pay taxes and don't go near secured services, please spend less of my taxes on this and just ensure that the people get from A-B at the cheapest option possible. Why I am paying for people to use wifi and have tables?
Best Wishes
Taxpayer
And I'd tend to agree with you. However, by not taking into account any quality, you end up with bargain basement operators like GCT who don't even bother running the routes properly!
There has to be at least some quality taken into consideration, and operators such as GNE (and even Arriva and Stagecoach, if they were willing to invest) have the economies of scale advantage to be able to offer higher quality at a similar cost.
I'd be willing to bet if GNE were to use the same shitboxes that GCT have, they'd be able to offer an even lower bid, but unlike GCT, they have to worry about their image
Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - TEN 6083 - 15 Mar 2021
(14 Mar 2021, 6:22 pm)Clifton Hignett III wrote The more I hear about this GCT company the more I think that they are a less than reputable bus operator. Am I correct?
They don’t have the best reputation on this forum.
Reasons why are:
Missing out parts of routes.
Not bothering to run routes at all.
Take their buses out of service if running late and head back to the depot or back to the starting point of the route.
Showing up early / late or not showing up at all.
Drivers parking the buses outside their own houses at night time.
Non working destination blinds.
These are just a few examples what I’ve read on here and seen while out in person, I’m sure there’ll be more stories floating around.
Sent from my iPhone XS using Tapatalk
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Andreos1 - 15 Mar 2021
(15 Mar 2021, 5:31 pm)TEN 6083 wrote They don’t have the best reputation on this forum.
Reasons why are:
Missing out parts of routes.
Not bothering to run routes at all.
Take their buses out of service if running late and head back to the depot or back to the starting point of the route.
Showing up early / late or not showing up at all.
Drivers parking the buses outside their own houses at night time.
Non working destination blinds.
These are just a few examples what I’ve read on here and seen while out in person, I’m sure there’ll be more stories floating around.
Sent from my iPhone XS using Tapatalk
To be fair, the majority of your reply could apply to any of the big three.
It's certainly not unique to GCT or any other small operator - locally or otherwise.
Clifton may well experience the same in his neck of the woods.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Adrian - 15 Mar 2021
(15 Mar 2021, 3:43 pm)Ambassador wrote Hello, Joe Taxpayer here.
I hear these services are rarely used and are point A-B and the people who use it will use it regardless of it being a Ford Fiesta or a Limousine.
On behalf of the overwhelming majority of people who pay taxes and don't go near secured services, please spend less of my taxes on this and just ensure that the people get from A-B at the cheapest option possible. Why I am paying for people to use wifi and have tables?
Best Wishes
Taxpayer
Cheapest is not always the best value to tax payers. When I see public money used, of course I want to see value for money, but I also want to see it being spent in such a way that is beneficial to the general public. If the cost is slightly more with additional quality elements; such as NSAs, real-time information, contactless payments and presentation, then I would see that as better value for money.
It's actually a disgrace that we still see NSAs as a quality measure, rather than something that makes buses more accessible. It's a big positive that there was a suggestion in the Ministerial statement today that this will become legislated going forward.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Ambassador - 16 Mar 2021
(15 Mar 2021, 7:54 pm)Adrian wrote Cheapest is not always the best value to tax payers. When I see public money used, of course I want to see value for money, but I also want to see it being spent in such a way that is beneficial to the general public. If the cost is slightly more with additional quality elements; such as NSAs, real-time information, contactless payments and presentation, then I would see that as better value for money.
It's actually a disgrace that we still see NSAs as a quality measure, rather than something that makes buses more accessible. It's a big positive that there was a suggestion in the Ministerial statement today that this will become legislated going forward.
If it comes to franchising then I'd agree - you wouldn't want GCT throwing some orange buses on the 21 for example. There's scope to grow and nurture that part of the network.
But when it comes to poorly used essential secured services, I don't think you'll ever grow that market so the lower costs the better.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - markydh - 16 Mar 2021
Just to provide devil's advocate, given the teeth gnashing, it's worth remembering that Stagecoach only have NSAs available on 20-odd deckers in Tyne & Wear. So, frankly, not mandating such technology is as much about them as it is about the little boys.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - streetdeckfan - 16 Mar 2021
(16 Mar 2021, 2:05 pm)markydh wrote Just to provide devil's advocate, given the teeth gnashing, it's worth remembering that Stagecoach only have NSAs available on 20-odd deckers in Tyne & Wear. So, frankly, not mandating such technology is as much about them as it is about the little boys.
Definitely, there's absolutely no reason why the likes of Stagecoach haven't been installing NSA for a decade now, when you're spending the best part of £250k on a decker, the cost of specifying NSA is likely to be negligible.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Clifton Hignett III - 16 Mar 2021
(15 Mar 2021, 5:31 pm)TEN 6083 wrote They don’t have the best reputation on this forum.
Reasons why are:
Missing out parts of routes.
Not bothering to run routes at all.
Take their buses out of service if running late and head back to the depot or back to the starting point of the route.
Showing up early / late or not showing up at all.
Drivers parking the buses outside their own houses at night time.
Non working destination blinds.
These are just a few examples what I’ve read on here and seen while out in person, I’m sure there’ll be more stories floating around.
Sent from my iPhone XS using Tapatalk
Thank you.
They sound dreadful to say the least. If I were a driver, I wouldn't like to take my work home with me no matter how much fuel it could save me.
Say, you remind me of someone. Have we met before?
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - PH - BQA - 16 Mar 2021
(16 Mar 2021, 2:05 pm)markydh wrote Just to provide devil's advocate, given the teeth gnashing, it's worth remembering that Stagecoach only have NSAs available on 20-odd deckers in Tyne & Wear. So, frankly, not mandating such technology is as much about them as it is about the little boys.
Agreed. First up here are just as backward, the new 70 plates don't even have WiFi, let alone NSAs or USBs, and their app is beyond unreliable. The general condition of both First and Stagecoach fleets up here, in terms of technology, is very much mid-2000s standard - it makes ANEs 'MAX' brand look like the epitome of a luxury service.
I'd still take either of them over something from GCT mind, possibly quite snobby of me but I think that while we do have some very good independents in the NE, we also have some absolute cowboys.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - streetdeckfan - 16 Mar 2021
(16 Mar 2021, 6:02 pm)mb134 wrote Agreed. First up here are just as backward, the new 70 plates don't even have WiFi, let alone NSAs or USBs, and their app is beyond unreliable. The general condition of both First and Stagecoach fleets up here, in terms of technology, is very much mid-2000s standard - it makes ANEs 'MAX' brand look like the epitome of a luxury service.
I'd still take either of them over something from GCT mind, possibly quite snobby of me but I think that while we do have some very good independents in the NE, we also have some absolute cowboys.
Like I said, if you're spending £250k on a new decker, would it really be too difficult to ask for some mod cons?
As I've also said in the past, there really is nothing to a next stop announcement system, I'd be interested to know how much the likes of Hanover charge for their system.
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Jamie M - 16 Mar 2021
(16 Mar 2021, 6:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Like I said, if you're spending £250k on a new decker, would it really be too difficult to ask for some mod cons?
As I've also said in the past, there really is nothing to a next stop announcement system, I'd be interested to know how much the likes of Hanover charge for their system.
New destination kit goes upwards of 1£k per lot direct from them, so I'd expect nothing less for all the stuff you need to make it suitable (door feed, speakers, the visual displays, the box behind it, software). You then have to have someone to program/maintain it/repair it. Then really, you need wi-fi kits to make it scalable, which is another faff on and associated running costs. It's definitely a cost on bus-by-bus basis, and I'd hate to see the costs over several hundred vehicles.
Enough money to pay some ground staff a bit extra an hour, I'd imagine, though that's just dreaming!
RE: Nexus Tenders - May 2021 - Adrian - 16 Mar 2021
(16 Mar 2021, 2:05 pm)markydh wrote Just to provide devil's advocate, given the teeth gnashing, it's worth remembering that Stagecoach only have NSAs available on 20-odd deckers in Tyne & Wear. So, frankly, not mandating such technology is as much about them as it is about the little boys.
Quality has to be looked at as more than just next stop announcements though. It's an overall measure, so considering elements such as presentation, real-time info, contactless payments, fare integration into the wider network. They're all examples of quality and all benefit the consumer.
But on next stop, it absolutely should be considered as part of Nexus equality assessment in the tender process, if they're looking to replace a contract that already runs with next stop enabled buses. Contractual or not, the contract award is of detriment to those passengers that rely on such technology.