North East Buses

(17 Mar 2015, 6:11 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]My main annoyance, and why (I think it was me) I raised the point, was that there clearly is a legal way of making up time, as there is a group of drivers who are always on time, so they are clearly doing something right, which is also sensible and legal. 

To me, this suggests that some drivers simply do not want to run on time, for whatever reason this may be, which is also clear to see once you board the vehicle, taking too long to open/close doors, pulling away slowly, driving below the speed limit even when they are late.

So, although I agree that the vehicles aren't the best, and better vehicles could be used on the route, I think there is another reason behind the late running. I guess it could be a mixture of driving style and the vehicle though?

I don't think everything is down to the vehicles allocated to a service as there is a Sapphire driver at Belmont on the 7 who always drives really slowly and has been doing so for a while, he was on the 7 I got yesterday and arrived in Darlington around 4 minutes late then left Darlington about a minute late and was back on-time when we got to Harrowgate Hill, Ashleigh House but we ended up arriving at Aycliffe Village 3 minutes late by driving slowly although we also got stuck behind a horse too. We were about 4 minutes late leaving Aycliffe Town Centre.

On a previous occasion we arrived in Durham Bus Station 6 minutes late, despite this being a morning journey with extra running time but no traffic so if anything we should have arrived early not late which caused me to miss the X21 to Newcastle and I'd have missed the X2 as well but thankfully it was late. He has made me miss several connections in Durham and annoyed other passengers by driving so slow.

(17 Mar 2015, 6:28 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I don't think everything is down to the vehicles allocated to a service as there is a Sapphire driver at Belmont on the 7 who always drives really slowly and has been doing so for a while, he was on the 7 I got yesterday and arrived in Darlington around 4 minutes late then left Darlington about a minute late and was back on-time when we got to Harrowgate Hill, Ashleigh House but we ended up arriving at Aycliffe Village 3 minutes late by driving slowly although we also got stuck behind a horse too. We were about 4 minutes late leaving Aycliffe Town Centre.

On a previous occasion we arrived in Durham Bus Station 6 minutes late, despite this being a morning journey with extra running time but no traffic so if anything we should have arrived early not late which caused me to miss the X21 to Newcastle and I'd have missed the X2 as well but thankfully it was late. He has made me miss several connections in Durham and annoyed other passengers by driving so slow.

There's a surprise! 

(17 Mar 2015, 6:29 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]There's a surprise! 

Was so glad it was otherwise I would either had to get a 21 or wait around 30 minutes for the next X21 to get to Newcastle because of that slow ride on the 7.

(17 Mar 2015, 6:28 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I don't think everything is down to the vehicles allocated to a service as there is a Sapphire driver at Belmont on the 7 who always drives really slowly and has been doing so for a while, he was on the 7 I got yesterday and arrived in Darlington around 4 minutes late then left Darlington about a minute late and was back on-time when we got to Harrowgate Hill, Ashleigh House but we ended up arriving at Aycliffe Village 3 minutes late by driving slowly although we also got stuck behind a horse too. We were about 4 minutes late leaving Aycliffe Town Centre.

On a previous occasion we arrived in Durham Bus Station 6 minutes late, despite this being a morning journey with extra running time but no traffic so if anything we should have arrived early not late which caused me to miss the X21 to Newcastle and I'd have missed the X2 as well but thankfully it was late. He has made me miss several connections in Durham and annoyed other passengers by driving so slow.

I think if we, passengers, are noticing certain drivers in particular that are always late, then surely depot management must also be aware? If this is the case, then they are clearly taking no action, which is quite inexcusable. 

(17 Mar 2015, 6:06 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I think this is more so what Davey was suggesting.

If it is difficult to keep to time on the X21/X22 due to ADL Enviro400s being allocated (which haven't got as much power as buses allocated in years gone by), are drivers beginning to think it's pointless trying to make up time as they won't be able to, which is ultimately leading to ongoing late running or regulation?

Just seen this now, I think this is a big reason, some drivers may be used to driving powerful Olympians, and will expect to be on time without having to try, as they used to. If they have realised that the Enviro's aren't that powerful then they have an excuse don't they really? 

What Arriva could do as a trial near Xmas is, bring one of the X93 B9s upto Ashington. Run it on one full day of X21 / X22 boards and X18 boards whilst using the same drivers do the exact same boards beforehand on another day with a 14 or 64 reg E400. Then compare the data and see whether or not a more powerful vehicle would be suited and get driver feedback too.

(17 Mar 2015, 7:45 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]What Arriva could do as a trial near Xmas is, bring one of the  X93 B9s upto Ashington. Run it on one full day of X21 / X22 boards and X18 boards whilst using the same drivers do the exact same boards beforehand on another day with a 14 or 64 reg E400. Then compare the data and see whether or not a more powerful vehicle would be suited and get driver feedback too.

I guess there wouldn't be much point in doing a trial with a Volvo B9TL, given that this vehicle is no longer manufactured. Perhaps get one of those Scanias you like, when they release a demonstrator vehicle!

DAVEY BOWYER!!!!

WE'VE JUST GOT BRAND NEW VEHICLES FOR THE X18/21/22!!! WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE (UNLESS ARRIVA WANT TO REPLACE THE REFURBS)!!!!!

POWAH!!!!

Sorry, I've got caps lock disease lol

(17 Mar 2015, 7:49 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]DAVEY BOWYER!!!!

WE'VE JUST GOT BRAND NEW VEHICLES FOR THE X18/21/22!!! WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE (UNLESS ARRIVA WANT TO REPLACE THE REFURBS)!!!!!

POWAH!!!!

Sorry, I've got caps lock disease lol

Which they will need to, sooner rather than later...

Why did Arriva give up their depot in Berwick?
It seems that Perrymans are doing a good job with the services they took over (Arriva/Northumbria did used to operate the local services around there didn't they, I know they definitely had a depot?), looking at their fleet?

(17 Mar 2015, 7:47 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I guess there wouldn't be much point in doing a trial with a Volvo B9TL, given that this vehicle is no longer manufactured. Perhaps get one of those Scanias you like, when they release a demonstrator vehicle!

 But it would show a clear comparison between a heavyweight and lightweight vehicle. And in anyways Tommy, Arriva could even do this when it comes to ditching 7501-7509:

- 15x ADL / Scania E400 MMCs for the X21 / X22.
- 6x ADL / Scania E400 MMCs for the X18 leaving 1 spare in the Winter.
- 5x ADL / Scania E400s MMCs for the X15.
- 7518 and 7522-29 to Blyth for the X10 / X11 joined alongside after a seat re-trim and power / NSA fitting, 7529-7533 for a Sapphire X10 / X11 (or perhaps 308 if the inspector can't be bothered) service.
- 7501-7506 to Belmont for the 7 if low bridges aren't an issue alongside spare 7507.
- 7508 spare at Blyth and 7509 spare at Ashington.
- 7511- 7512 spare at Ashington
- 7513 spare at Blyth.
- 13x (That's if there still is?) MAX Spec VDL DB300 Wright Pulsar Geminis for the X4 / X5 / X13.

(17 Mar 2015, 9:26 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ] But it would show a clear comparison between a heavyweight and lightweight vehicle. And in anyways Tommy, Arriva could even do this when it comes to ditching 7501-7509:

- 15x ADL / Scania E400 MMCs for the X21 / X22.
- 6x ADL / Scania E400 MMCs for the X18 leaving 1 spare in the Winter.
- 5x ADL / Scania E400s MMCs for the X15.
- 7518 and 7522-29 to Blyth for the X10 / X11 joined alongside after a seat re-trim and power / NSA fitting, 7529-7533 for a Sapphire X10 / X11 (or perhaps 308 if the inspector can't be bothered) service.
- 7501-7506 to Belmont for the 7 if low bridges aren't an issue alongside spare 7507.
- 7508 spare at Blyth and 7509 spare at Ashington.
- 7511- 7512 spare at Ashington
- 7513 spare at Blyth.
- 13x (That's if there still is?) MAX Spec VDL DB300 Wright Pulsar Geminis for the X4 / X5 / X13.

We don't want those referb heaps on the 7, thankfully I don't think they'd get under Priestgate in Darlington, don't know why you'd put them on the 7 when we have brand new Enviro 400's arriving for this service very soon.

(17 Mar 2015, 9:36 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]We don't want those referb heaps on the 7, thankfully I don't think they'd get under Priestgate in Darlington, don't know why you'd put them on the 7 when we have brand new Enviro 400's arriving for this service very soon.

Nobody wants them!  

I'll put my response to Daveys post in here as well:

My main problems with the X21 seems to stem from 7501-7509, I'm not against Enviro's, as I've stated in the past, and I've been open about how I like 7514-33 (with the odd exception, but isn't there always?), but 7501-9 just don't seem up to it and I'd quite like to see a comparison of their performance to that of what was on the route previously (the DAF's, B10BLE's, and Olympians)

(17 Mar 2015, 9:26 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ] But it would show a clear comparison between a heavyweight and lightweight vehicle. And in anyways Tommy, Arriva could even do this when it comes to ditching 7501-7509:

- 15x ADL / Scania E400 MMCs for the X21 / X22.
- 6x ADL / Scania E400 MMCs for the X18 leaving 1 spare in the Winter.
- 5x ADL / Scania E400s MMCs for the X15.
- 7518 and 7522-29 to Blyth for the X10 / X11 joined alongside after a seat re-trim and power / NSA fitting, 7529-7533 for a Sapphire X10 / X11 (or perhaps 308 if the inspector can't be bothered) service.
- 7501-7506 to Belmont for the 7 if low bridges aren't an issue alongside spare 7507.
- 7508 spare at Blyth and 7509 spare at Ashington.
- 7511- 7512 spare at Ashington
- 7513 spare at Blyth.
- 13x (That's if there still is?) MAX Spec VDL DB300 Wright Pulsar Geminis for the X4 / X5 / X13.

But they already have a clear comparison - the E400s and B7TLs that were both used on the X93. 

(17 Mar 2015, 9:44 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Nobody wants them!  

I'll piput my response to Daveys post in here as well:

My main problems with the X21 seems to stem from 7501-7509, I'm not against Enviro's, as I've stated in the past, and I've been open about how I like 7514-33 (with the odd exception, but isn't there always?), but 7501-9 just don't seem up to it and I'd quite like to see a comparison of their performance to that of what was on the route previously (the DAF's, B10BLE's, and Olympians)

Another thing I've just thought of is how would passengers on service 7 including myself take the news about our 63 reg Pulsar's being replaced with 57 reg Enviro's, do you think we'd take that news lightly, especially with the old garbage and breakdowns we suffered before the days of Sapphire - we really don't want to go back to old buses braking down all the time as they won't be able to handle the 7 I think as they are shot (apparently).

No idea what the best thing to do with 7501-7509 would be.

(17 Mar 2015, 9:49 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Another thing I've just thought of is how would passengers on service 7 including myself take the news about our 63 reg Pulsar's being replaced with 57 reg Enviro's, do you think we'd take that news lightly, especially with the old garbage and breakdowns we suffered before the days of Sapphire - we really don't want to go back to old buses braking down all the time as they won't be able to handle the 7 I think as they are shot (apparently).

No idea what the best thing to do with 7501-7509 would be.

I can think of one place, however even the non-DDA vehicles residing there may take offense  

 

from experience I would like to point out the problem with the enviros at ashington. they have ALL been fitted with this new restrictive throttle control called econospeed. It is designed to replicate the acceleration of a careful eco driver. on the 64 plates (haven't drove any 14 plates, but I assume they are the same) the system was factory fitted, the bus is slower than normal in accelerating, and similar to how the 57 plates used to run when in d rate mode. however, the refurbs were fitted at that time, and the bus will NOT accelerate downhill. it is as if the only force is gravity pulling you down. on flat and uphill it is slightly better, but still painfully slow. however Arriva report a 10% reduction in fuel usage on these vehicles, which considering the lack of passengers compared to expected growth, they really cant afford to change. And yes there are certain drivers who will not try and keep to time and never have, and they now have a perfect excuse. driving style doesn't really come into it, if you are heavy footed and try to push the bus, the econospeed system slows you down.

if you ever see one alongside a stagecoach version pulling up at hancock museum, you can clearly see the difference. stagecoach ones leave arriva for dead.

(17 Mar 2015, 10:48 pm)davis wrote [ -> ]from experience I would like to point out the problem with the enviros at ashington. they have ALL been fitted with this new restrictive throttle control called econospeed. It is designed to replicate the acceleration of a careful eco driver. on the 64 plates (haven't drove any 14 plates, but I assume they are the same) the system was factory fitted, the bus is slower than normal in accelerating, and similar to how the 57 plates used to run when in d rate mode. however, the refurbs were fitted at that time, and the bus will NOT accelerate downhill. it is as if the only force is gravity pulling you down. on flat and uphill it is slightly better, but still painfully slow. however Arriva report a 10% reduction in fuel usage on these vehicles, which considering the lack of passengers compared to expected growth, they really cant afford to change. And yes there are certain drivers who will not try and keep to time and never have, and they now have a perfect excuse. driving style doesn't really come into it, if you are heavy footed and try to push the bus, the econospeed system slows you down.

if you ever see one alongside a stagecoach version pulling up at hancock museum, you can clearly see the difference. stagecoach ones leave arriva for dead.

Some of the Citylink Versa's at Riverside are fitted with this and they seem to be working ok, so I wonder if the setup on these vehicles needs tweaking.

oh and also there are plans to remove EU work from Ashington 24th May. Both X15 and X18 are going to be run under domestic rules, and split at Morpeth, Alnwick and Bamburgh. however they plan on running these under current route numbers all the way through. Drivers are NOT happy about this, especially when we should be getting extra work for summer, we are losing 3 lines of Rota. Many drivers believe this is going to be illegal as the route number is staying the same, and the same bus is running full route.

maybe someone can shed light on this as our union reps are non existent at the minute.

(17 Mar 2015, 10:48 pm)davis wrote [ -> ]from experience I would like to point out the problem with the enviros at ashington. they have ALL been fitted with this new restrictive throttle control called econospeed. It is designed to replicate the acceleration of a careful eco driver. on the 64 plates (haven't drove any 14 plates, but I assume they are the same) the system was factory fitted, the bus is slower than normal in accelerating, and similar to how the 57 plates used to run when in d rate mode. however, the refurbs were fitted at that time, and the bus will NOT accelerate downhill. it is as if the only force is gravity pulling you down. on flat and uphill it is slightly better, but still painfully slow. however Arriva report a 10% reduction in fuel usage on these vehicles, which considering the lack of passengers compared to expected growth, they really cant afford to change. And yes there are certain drivers who will not try and keep to time and never have, and they now have a perfect excuse. driving style doesn't really come into it, if you are heavy footed and try to push the bus, the econospeed system slows you down.

if you ever see one alongside a stagecoach version pulling up at hancock museum, you can clearly see the difference. stagecoach ones leave arriva for dead.

I wondered if that may be part of the reason! We had the same system fitted to the Pulsars at Stockton and it was turned off as it was regarded as unsafe by the driving staff and the union. Management listened to concerns and made the decision to turn the system off. The fact that several vehicles were excluded in the first place made a mockery of it to be honest. I'm not one to moan about an Eco system but Econospeed really was far too restrictive! Not only that but we had buses dropping from 50 to 10mph on high speed roads, which was totally unsafe.

(17 Mar 2015, 10:55 pm)davis wrote [ -> ]oh and also there are plans to remove EU work from Ashington 24th May. Both X15 and X18 are going to be run under domestic rules, and split at Morpeth, Alnwick and Bamburgh. however they plan on running these under current route numbers all the way through. Drivers are NOT happy about this, especially when we should be getting extra work for summer, we are losing 3 lines of Rota. Many drivers believe this is going to be illegal as the route number is staying the same, and the same bus is running full route.

maybe someone can shed light on this as our union reps are non existent at the minute.

Believe there was a successful challenge regarding this, and as a result, number doesn't need to change?

Doesn't make it morally correct. It's an 'operational efficiency' at the detriment of the workers. If your union reps aren't available, and there's enough bad feeling about it, then I'd suggest contacting your union's regional office asap.

surely it makes a mockery of the laws. these laws were brought in for a reason. routes have to be under 50km, or over 50km is on tachos. unless the company splits it up for registration purposes and can split it as many times as they want, without changing the number. so whats the point in the laws being there? to protect the driver and the public! Arriva.... commited to road safety my backside!

rant over

(17 Mar 2015, 10:48 pm)davis wrote [ -> ]from experience I would like to point out the problem with the enviros at ashington. they have ALL been fitted with this new restrictive throttle control called econospeed. It is designed to replicate the acceleration of a careful eco driver. on the 64 plates (haven't drove any 14 plates, but I assume they are the same) the system was factory fitted, the bus is slower than normal in accelerating, and similar to how the 57 plates used to run when in d rate mode. however, the refurbs were fitted at that time, and the bus will NOT accelerate downhill. it is as if the only force is gravity pulling you down. on flat and uphill it is slightly better, but still painfully slow. however Arriva report a 10% reduction in fuel usage on these vehicles, which considering the lack of passengers compared to expected growth, they really cant afford to change. And yes there are certain drivers who will not try and keep to time and never have, and they now have a perfect excuse. driving style doesn't really come into it, if you are heavy footed and try to push the bus, the econospeed system slows you down.

if you ever see one alongside a stagecoach version pulling up at hancock museum, you can clearly see the difference. stagecoach ones leave arriva for dead.

Well, they'd get more punters if they did the following:
- Get rid of the 57 reg skips, ok perhaps not on the 7 but anywhere that can handle them.
- Get the eco crap removed of all Enviros at Ashington.
- Get rid of the daft de-tour of the X21 via Nedderton and encourage people to use the bus. Perhaps split the X21 / X22 back into the old X31 / X32 / X33 format with  X31 / X32 being Sapphire and X33 running as MAX. That would then clearly signal the X31 / X32 as the quick (bar the X20) and better equipped services and the X33 as the slow but essential if needed service without having to pull out the stops of coming up with a 10 minute 'combined' frequency.
- Clamp down on the VERY SMALL minority of drivers who intentionally run late.


Not going to say anymore so you can turn your CAPS off now guys but I've said what I've saiD

The X1 and the 1/5 are currently late due to congestion on West Auckland Road heading into Darlington. Not sure of the reason for the congestion, but the traffic has been stop start all morning.

(18 Mar 2015, 10:41 am)John_R wrote [ -> ]The X1 and the 1/5 are currently late due to congestion on West Auckland Road heading into Darlington. Not sure of the reason for the congestion, but the traffic has been stop start all morning.

It does seem to be causing problems to these services, on the Live Map I saw a 5 running 11 minutes late and an X1 running 14 minutes late.

Also saw the 19 running 5 minutes late in one direction and 6 minutes late in the other direction.

I understand the Streetlites have started to be delivered with the MAX ones starting to turn up! More details soon hopefully

(18 Mar 2015, 12:10 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]I understand the Streetlites have started to be delivered with the MAX ones starting to turn up! More details soon hopefully

Any idea if they are going straight to their own depots (eg. MAX examples to Darlington) or are they going to Jesmond first?

(18 Mar 2015, 12:10 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]I understand the Streetlites have started to be delivered with the MAX ones starting to turn up! More details soon hopefully

I hope the seats have came with the GNE logo on, instead of the MAX logo... Just for extra comfort and all that!

(17 Mar 2015, 4:30 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]If anyone sees any of the MAX refurbished Geminis on the X12 tomorrow or Thurs, could you let me know when and where please?

7618 is on the 1421 X2 to Newcastle.

On-time too.

E400s NK15 ACF/J have arrived at Jesmond depot.

Information from Andrew Scott on 'Arriva UK Enthusiasts' Facebook Group