North East Buses

(31 Aug 2021, 1:19 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I think frequency can be a major part, but I don't think it can be the be-all and end-all, as it has often been marketed in the past. For me, it's just as important to make sure that proper thought goes into connections (in both directions) with less frequent services, but perhaps the ones that are used to get people to the high frequency service that takes them from A to B. When high frequency isn't appropriate, then the timing of terminus departures are key to me. Because when you're trying to attract people from the convenience of a car, you have to remember that they don't turn up to a car park and stand around for 25 minutes before their car is ready to depart.

If I use the 50 as an example from Durham, from 4pm onwards (which is generally the earliest daytime workers will leave work), you've just missed the 15.57, you've got the 16.32, 17.09, 17.39 and then 18.06 is the last one. So you end up in the situation where it's just far too tight for people finishing work on the hour/half past the hour (as shifts usually do) to catch any of those, and quite a long time for people be stood around waiting for the next one that is due.

You of course can split the journey at Chester-le-Street, but the X21 doesn't connect with the 50 (apart from the 17.16 out of Durham) nor the 8. The 8's Sunderland-bound departures from CLS are timetabled very close to the 50, rather than planning it so that it creates more of a clock-face frequency. Problems that still exist post 5th September.

This is one of the main reasons why I decided to learn how to drive. On a summer evening, it might be nice to go for stroll to pass the time whilst waiting for a bus, but in the winter, the prospect of a stroll or waiting around in a cold bus station for half-an-hour isn't exactly appealing.

While timings have improved in the Derwent Valley over the past twenty years or so, I used to hate travelling home by bus on an evening when I used to work in the Metrocentre in the late 90s. I think there was the choice between the 611, the 745 and, perhaps the M21 (not too sure about the latter), however they all used to be timed to come within 15 minutes of each other (55, 00 and 10, IIRC - I'll check when I'm at home later!). For someone finishing at either 8pm or 9pm, it is certainly not ideal to have another 45 minute wait on top of your day.

In some ways I was lucky as I only had one bus to catch. I know that some people I worked with lived in Washington and Birtley so imagine their experience might have been as bad as mine.

But this point makes you wonder how much of a factor bad timetabling or inadequate connections are when someone makes the decision to switch from bus to car.

Sunderland College has awful connects to the 60/61/2/2A/39/X6. Which isn't great. Sometimes waiting 12 mins for bus. When 20/35/55/X20 go there just the X20/35/55 depart around the same time.

(31 Aug 2021, 4:07 pm)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]Sunderland College has awful connects to the 60/61/2/2A/39/X6. Which isn't great. Sometimes waiting 12 mins for bus. When 20/35/55/X20 go there just the X20/35/55 depart around the same time.

12 minutes?

You are spoiled.

(31 Aug 2021, 4:09 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]12 minutes?

You are spoiled.

12 Mins if the 20 is on time. Wouldn't be a massive issue if Park lane wasn't a wind tunnel.

(31 Aug 2021, 4:01 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]This is one of the main reasons why I decided to learn how to drive. On a summer evening, it might be nice to go for stroll to pass the time whilst waiting for a bus, but in the winter, the prospect of a stroll or waiting around in a cold bus station for half-an-hour isn't exactly appealing.

While timings have improved in the Derwent Valley over the past twenty years or so, I used to hate travelling home by bus on an evening when I used to work in the Metrocentre in the late 90s. I think there was the choice between the 611, the 745 and, perhaps the M21 (not too sure about the latter), however they all used to be timed to come within 15 minutes of each other (55, 00 and 10, IIRC - I'll check when I'm at home later!). For someone finishing at either 8pm or 9pm, it is certainly not ideal to have another 45 minute wait on top of your day.

In some ways I was lucky as I only had one bus to catch. I know that some people I worked with lived in Washington and Birtley so imagine their experience might have been as bad as mine.
 
But this point makes you wonder how much of a factor bad timetabling or inadequate connections are when someone makes the decision to switch from bus to car. 

I'd say it is a huge factor and it seems to be ignored in favour of tables, WiFi and whatever else.
Sorting out the fares is just one element and although it appears the £1 fare offer is having a positive impact on elastic passengers, it makes naff all difference to those customers who need to plan a journey with military precision.

Hard, network improvements are needed.

(31 Aug 2021, 7:06 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'd say it is a huge factor and it seems to be ignored in favour of tables, WiFi and whatever else.
Sorting out the fares is just one element and although it appears the £1 fare offer is having a positive impact on elastic passengers, it makes naff all difference to those customers who need to plan a journey with military precision.

Hard, network improvements are needed.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive, I imagine the timetabling would be the same regardless of whether they have a high-spec interior or a bog standard one

(31 Aug 2021, 7:51 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]The two things aren't mutually exclusive, I imagine the timetabling would be the same regardless of whether they have a high-spec interior or a bog standard one

I'd argue that the WiFi and tables can only go so far. Just as the £1 fares can only go so far and a timetable that works, can only go so far.
However working to improve the network and timetables would have a far bigger impact imo.

No good having the fare offer, WiFi and tables if theres a 45min wait between connections, buses don't go where people need them to go or timetables don't coincide with shifts finishes (see Adrian's example) and people are put off using the bus as a result.

Generally passengers HATE having to connect between services.

I have family members who would sooner wait round Darlington Station for as long as 50 minutes (in the past) to get a direct train to Manchester/Liverpool than have a quicker journey but change somewhere along the way (typically York or Leeds).

I live in Newton Aycliffe and when it came to start college, despite being further away than the likes of Darlington & Bishop, I chose New College Durham to take my course as when I started at least it was one Bus direct to get there more or less dropping me off outside whereas Darlington required a change in the Town Centre (or walk) whilst Bishop Auckland College had a half hourly service and would have a 16 min walk to the campus. It became less desirable when Arriva curtailed most 7's of the day at Durham Bus Station, I retained the direct bus each morning but my finish time seemed to be a different time each day (anything from 15:30 - 16:30 despite being timetabled to be in until 17:00) and I would almost always get to North Road Roundabout and see my connecting 7 leaving the Bus Station and would have to wait 20 minutes for the next one (assuming it was on time which was rare), often if I finished at around 16:00 I just waited around until the first direct bus home from Fram with how "reliable" the 64 tended to be, I would often just end up catching the same 7 from Durham Bus Station, so a journey which originally took roughly 60 minutes when direct Mon-Sat daytime to/from Fram became 90 minutes, or even as much as 120 minutes when the 64 would disappear off the face of the earth, was half tempted to leave the College as it became such a faff.

I think lack of connections or poorly timed connections really don't help passengers, especially if the connection is somewhere awful, I absolutely detested waiting in Durham Bus Station at night and even with security didn't feel safe/anxious half the time. I like how GNE have tried to maintain that with the loss of the 925, passengers wishing to travel to/from QE Hospital should change at Wrekenton, one problem however is the 25 will no longer serve the High Street stop in Wrekenton (Langley Park bound) which although the alternative stop isn't far away it will still be a pain to some.

(31 Aug 2021, 10:25 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Generally passengers HATE having to connect between services.

I have family members who would sooner wait round Darlington Station for as long as 50 minutes (in the past) to get a direct train to Manchester/Liverpool than have a quicker journey but change somewhere along the way (typically York or Leeds).

I live in Newton Aycliffe and when it came to start college, despite being further away than the likes of Darlington & Bishop, I chose New College Durham to take my course as when I started at least it was one Bus direct to get there more or less dropping me off outside whereas Darlington required a change in the Town Centre (or walk) whilst Bishop Auckland College had a half hourly service and would have a 16 min walk to the campus. It became less desirable when Arriva curtailed most 7's of the day at Durham Bus Station, I retained the direct bus each morning but my finish time seemed to be a different time each day (anything from 15:30 - 16:30 despite being timetabled to be in until 17:00) and I would almost always get to North Road Roundabout and see my connecting 7 leaving the Bus Station and would have to wait 20 minutes for the next one (assuming it was on time which was rare), often if I finished at around 16:00 I just waited around until the first direct bus home from Fram with how "reliable" the 64 tended to be, I would often just end up catching the same 7 from Durham Bus Station, so a journey which originally took roughly 60 minutes when direct Mon-Sat daytime to/from Fram became 90 minutes, or even as much as 120 minutes when the 64 would disappear off the face of the earth, was half tempted to leave the College as it became such a faff.

I think lack of connections or poorly timed connections really don't help passengers, especially if the connection is somewhere awful, I absolutely detested waiting in Durham Bus Station at night and even with security didn't feel safe/anxious half the time. I like how GNE have tried to maintain that with the loss of the 925, passengers wishing to travel to/from QE Hospital should change at Wrekenton, one problem however is the 25 will no longer serve the High Street stop in Wrekenton (Langley Park bound) which although the alternative stop isn't far away it will still be a pain to some.

I used to like the way you connected with cyclists and mobility scooters by diving into the path of them ?

(31 Aug 2021, 10:25 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I think lack of connections or poorly timed connections really don't help passengers, especially if the connection is somewhere awful, I absolutely detested waiting in Durham Bus Station at night and even with security didn't feel safe/anxious half the time. I like how GNE have tried to maintain that with the loss of the 925, passengers wishing to travel to/from QE Hospital should change at Wrekenton, one problem however is the 25 will no longer serve the High Street stop in Wrekenton (Langley Park bound) which although the alternative stop isn't far away it will still be a pain to some.

And safety is a huge problem for people travelling. I've seen all sorts in Durham Bus Station on a night, yet that's probably one of the more secure stations, having security staff working late. It doesn't make it any more pleasant when the pissheads come in.

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Re connections. People from kibblesworth who want to get to the qe get the 29 to sainsbury at team valley and guess what ... yes the 94 is time to leave that stop 2 minutes before before it arrives.

(31 Aug 2021, 10:39 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]And safety is a huge problem for people travelling. I've seen all sorts in Durham Bus Station on a night, yet that's probably one of the more secure stations, having security staff working late. It doesn't make it any more pleasant when the pissheads come in.

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I never really felt unsafe at Durham Bus Station when I was there at night, even with the occasional fight between drunks!

I feel more unsafe at Bishop Bus Station, to the point that when I have a long wait I just have a walk down Newgate Street as it's at least illuminated properly! Drunks seem to love loitering around the seats near the entrance to the Newgate Centre, which just so happens to be where the stand for the Arriva 6 is!

(30 Aug 2021, 5:32 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Similar to the example of Market Street East in Newcastle, it is literally a 5 minute walk from the middle of Market Square, which arguably is the centre of all the shops. 

If people can muster up the energy to walk around shops all morning, then surely they can manage the short walk to and from the bus station. Bags of shopping or not.

market street may be 5 minutes walk from the shops but its a lot further to the civic centre, St james park, either uni or the crows nest pub! When ive been on the 28a the changes to this service arnt going down well. the news that its not going to the main bus station in Newcastle and also the fact you cant get to CLS now on it direct doesn't make the bus company any more attractive to users.

I think also that if you reduce something people who dont use it look at it as a minor inconvenience to those that do.  I used to have to get bus metro bus to work before I got a car. I didn't mind doing it as it was the only choice i had. When I got my car it was a pain if i'd been out the night before and decided against driving  that  as i was so used to jumping in my car and it taking 30 minutes to work. getting the bus metro bus was a right pain and everything that goes with it... waiting in the cold hoping bus arrives.... school kids shouting and using language that would make a sailor blush and of course connections to metro then to bus.

So although dropping off at market street doesnt seem to bad, those who are used to being dropped off at eldon square its not a good look for the bus company.

(01 Sep 2021, 7:57 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I never really felt unsafe at Durham Bus Station when I was there at night, even with the occasional fight between drunks!

I feel more unsafe at Bishop Bus Station, to the point that when I have a long wait I just have a walk down Newgate Street as it's at least illuminated properly! Drunks seem to love loitering around the seats near the entrance to the Newgate Centre, which just so happens to be where the stand for the Arriva 6 is!

I somewhat agree. Safety has never really been a concern of mine whilst waiting at a bus station late at night. But I am conscious of the fact that I am getting older and it may be of great importance to me in 10 or 15 years time. 

Like you I have never felt unsafe in a bus station, however I have felt unsafe on a bus before and have documented the experience here.

(21 Jan 2014, 8:42 am)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]My journey on the X35 was made all the more fun by 3 drunken morons (one apparently blind; another with a Petrol Can) boarding at Easington Lane hurling abuse at the female passengers on the bus. The other passengers alighted at Houghton and Doxford leaving me alone on the bus with them all the way to Sunderland. They were sitting at the back, me in the space where the two sets of seats face each other, so they were say right behind me drinking cider and being generally ladgeful. It was quite tense.

To add a little bit more to the story, it got tense for me because I was sitting at the back of the bus, a row or so in front of them, and didn't know how things would pan out. Despite there being CCTV onboard and the driver having a radio to alert the police if anything happened, I was fully aware that I was outnumbered in an enclosed environment with little choice other than to take a battering or to fight back (and probably still take a battering). As the journey progressed I became more anxious and paranoid that something would kick-off and I had to mentally prepare myself for that outcome. Luckily, nothing happened, and perhaps, in hindsight, my anxiety and paranoia got the better of me but it doesn't take away from the fact that, as a passenger, it was a really unpleasant experience - albeit not one which would put me off from travelling on public transport - but for some it might. Now, if that scenario happened in a bus station then I'd at least have the option of fight or flight (I'm still nimble and fit enough to run-away). On the bus, I felt the option of flight was taken from me.

(01 Sep 2021, 8:51 am)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]I somewhat agree. Safety has never really been a concern of mine whilst waiting at a bus station late at night. But I am conscious of the fact that I am getting older and it may be of great importance to me in 10 or 15 years time. 

Like you I have never felt unsafe in a bus station, however I have felt unsafe on a bus before and have documented the experience here.


To add a little bit more to the story, it got tense for me because I was sitting at the back of the bus, a row or so in front of them, and didn't know how things would pan out. Despite there being CCTV onboard and the driver having a radio to alert the police if anything happened, I was fully aware that I was outnumbered in an enclosed environment with little choice other than to take a battering or to fight back (and probably still take a battering). As the journey progressed I became more anxious and paranoid that something would kick-off and I had to mentally prepare myself for that outcome. Luckily, nothing happened, and perhaps, in hindsight, my anxiety and paranoia got the better of me but it doesn't take away from the fact that, as a passenger, it was a really unpleasant experience - albeit not one which would put me off from travelling on public transport - but for some it might. Now, if that scenario happened in a bus station then I'd at least have the option of fight or flight (I'm still nimble and fit enough to run-away). On the bus, I felt the option of flight was taken from me.

Maybe it's because of the fact that I'm not 'normal' but I actually love it when there's drama on the bus!

The best one was when I was on the X46 during the Arriva strikes and someone tried to get on using someone else's concessionary pass, despite it being free travel. When asked to hand over the pass by the inspector on the bus (the driver was from Arriva Yorkshire so was being route trained) he ended up getting punched in the face. The passenger then fled to the back of the bus and tried to get out the emergency door, but was blocked by the inspector. I was sat just a bit further forward and was nearly jumped on!

(01 Sep 2021, 8:51 am)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]I somewhat agree. Safety has never really been a concern of mine whilst waiting at a bus station late at night. But I am conscious of the fact that I am getting older and it may be of great importance to me in 10 or 15 years time. 

Like you I have never felt unsafe in a bus station, however I have felt unsafe on a bus before and have documented the experience here.


To add a little bit more to the story, it got tense for me because I was sitting at the back of the bus, a row or so in front of them, and didn't know how things would pan out. Despite there being CCTV onboard and the driver having a radio to alert the police if anything happened, I was fully aware that I was outnumbered in an enclosed environment with little choice other than to take a battering or to fight back (and probably still take a battering). As the journey progressed I became more anxious and paranoid that something would kick-off and I had to mentally prepare myself for that outcome. Luckily, nothing happened, and perhaps, in hindsight, my anxiety and paranoia got the better of me but it doesn't take away from the fact that, as a passenger, it was a really unpleasant experience - albeit not one which would put me off from travelling on public transport - but for some it might. Now, if that scenario happened in a bus station then I'd at least have the option of fight or flight (I'm still nimble and fit enough to run-away). On the bus, I felt the option of flight was taken from me.

My autism increases the level of anxiety and general feelings of uneasiness at times especially if people are loud and if anyone is speaking in a generally threatening tone even when I'm not involved, noise is a bigger trigger as highlighted in some of my cringe posts I made back in the old days of this forum which mercifully I can deal with better now although still flawed in that regard.

I have had some bad experiences in my time, I was threatened in Gateshead Interchange when attempting to board an X21 as I was having to skirt my way round those boarding the 21 that arrived in front that blocked my path, I couldn't bring myself to get on the bus with said person who threatened me so instead was left there in a state of distress, handily security nowhere to be found.

I also remember travelling on the X22 to Durham on Christmas Eve sat downstairs on an OmniDekka and two drunks kept hassling me to use my phone which I declined and this got me irrate and was threatened as a result, I had to retreat onto the top deck and ended up staying up there until I was certain they had alighted the bus in Durham although think they actually got off at Plawsworth.

I also got shoved against my local bus stop one night for no reason other than they thought it was funny.

(01 Sep 2021, 3:59 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]My autism increases the level of anxiety and general feelings of uneasiness at times especially if people are loud and if anyone is speaking in a generally threatening tone even when I'm not involved, noise is a bigger trigger as highlighted in some of my cringe posts I made back in the old days of this forum which mercifully I can deal with better now although still flawed in that regard.

I have had some bad experiences in my time, I was threatened in Gateshead Interchange when attempting to board an X21 as I was having to skirt my way round those boarding the 21 that arrived in front that blocked my path, I couldn't bring myself to get on the bus with said person who threatened me so instead was left there in a state of distress, handily security nowhere to be found.

I also remember travelling on the X22 to Durham on Christmas Eve sat downstairs on an OmniDekka and two drunks kept hassling me to use my phone which I declined and this got me irrate and was threatened as a result, I had to retreat onto the top deck and ended up staying up there until I was certain they had alighted the bus in Durham although think they actually got off at Plawsworth.

I also got shoved against my local bus stop one night for no reason other than they thought it was funny.

That reminds me of the time I was on the X21 and these two drunks from Spennymoor kept pestering me to give them my cup so they could drink their bottle of Lambrini!
I refused numerous times as I still had some of my mocha in it, I can't remember whether I just gave in and let them have it once I'd finished or whether they just took it anyway, but it wasn't too long before they ended up spilling it all over the floor of the bus. I'm not really much of a drinker, especially not that shite, so had to get off a couple stops later as the smell was awful!

Just been on the GNE twitter page and noticed the number of cancellations - it looks like there has been close to 90 journeys cancelled today. I realise GNE tend to report this kind of thing very well on social media and are to be commended for that. Can't help but think however that level of unreliability and consequent delay, especially on a Sunday where there is already a decent gap in some frequencies, has to be a major deterrent to bus travel for anyone who has a choice? No idea if today is just a particularly extreme example, or if this is fairly typical (and indeed if similar scale cancellations occur regularly with the other operators).

(05 Sep 2021, 9:38 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Just been on the GNE twitter page and noticed the number of cancellations - it looks like there has been close to 90 journeys cancelled today. I realise GNE tend to report this kind of thing very well on social media and are to be commended for that. Can't help but think however that level of unreliability and consequent delay, especially on a Sunday where there is already a decent gap in some frequencies, has to be a major deterrent to bus travel for anyone who has a choice? No idea if today is just a particularly extreme example, or if this is fairly typical (and indeed if similar scale cancellations occur regularly with the other operators).

Yes, everything is reported for transparency. Today has been quite unusual - both for the company and in terms of what the wider industry is going through.

I recently heard there was one day fairly recently where 26% of Arriva Darlington’s mileage was lost due to no driver being available (far greater than your example of 90 journeys across the whole of Go North East today) - but you’d not know, as it wasn’t posted on social media.

The whole industry is going through incredibly tough times at the moment (as are many other sectors, but public transport gives the impression of being worse - a driver shortage results in journeys being cancelled, whereas a shortage of staff in a fast food restaurant or bakery for example just means there is longer waiting times for your food).

I’d say all three operators in our region should probably be considering reducing service levels so at least then the journeys cancelled are planned - alas, Arriva Durham’s situation is set to get a lot worse with Go North East and JH Coaches no longer operating services 6, 7 and 64 on their behalf.


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(05 Sep 2021, 9:38 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Just been on the GNE twitter page and noticed the number of cancellations - it looks like there has been close to 90 journeys cancelled today.  I realise GNE tend to report this kind of thing very well on social media and are to be commended for that.  Can't help but think however that level of unreliability and consequent delay, especially on a Sunday where there is already a decent gap in some frequencies, has to be a major deterrent to bus travel for anyone who has a choice?  No idea if today is just a particularly extreme example, or if this is fairly typical (and indeed if similar scale cancellations occur regularly with the other operators).

I posted in the disruptions thread the other day that the last 16 of the evening had been cancelled (tweet went out 5mins prior) and they were recommending people use the X15 as an alternative.

Just seen the last X1 to Easington Lane from Newcastle has been cancelled. No recommendations on alternatives (even fewer than the example the other evening in Durham) and the tweet went out 5mins prior to it departing Eldon Square.

In other news, there's apparently been a staff trip to York today.
No idea who was on-board and whether it made any difference to the 90+ runs cancelled today, but hopefully they all enjoyed it.

(05 Sep 2021, 9:57 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]In other news, there's apparently been a staff trip to York today.
No idea who was on-board and whether it made any difference to the 90+ runs cancelled today, but hopefully they all enjoyed it.

A pre-arranged staff trip for colleagues based at Percy Main had no bearing on coverage at other depots, where the majority of problems were today.

Drivers can’t be forced to give up their rest days and work overtime.

Struggling to see the relevance here, Andreos. You’d have been nonethewiser if those colleagues decided to go for a trip to their local Wetherspoons on their rest day instead. Either way, you can’t begrudge staff for wanting to get together and enjoy a day off, after the last year and a half.


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For me flexible ticketing is key to this as hybrid working becomes the norm and none of the operators here seem to have got it quite right yet. The options -

GNE - Flexi 5 - 5 individual tickets (usage within one month of first ticket) plus limited PAYG on Voltra 53/54.

Arriva - 3 Day Flexi - 3 individual tickets (usage within 7 days of first ticket)

Stagecoach Flexi5 - 5 day riders for the price of 4 (12 month validity) - currently only in Sunderland 

Metro - Existing PAYG option

Network One  - Still under the impression its 1999 - as forward thinking as a reversing Streetlite

Nexus Bus - Making Network One look like Apple

Stagecoach has the best deal purely as the 12 month validity is a real vote winner, though its limited rollout is disappointing (unsure whether its just testing in Sunderland)

Although I will be returning around 2 days a week next year it won't necessarily be every week and the extremely limited validity offered by Arriva and GNE is disappointing and I'd be loathed to invest in a ticket that I might end up wasting - if I had even 60 days with the GNE I'd be more comfortable, you've got my money - let me choose how I ride. I wouldn't touch the Arriva one with a bargepole unless I was sure I was going in that week

I think GNE need to up the validity of 30 days.

(07 Sep 2021, 9:16 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]For me flexible ticketing is key to this as hybrid working becomes the norm and none of the operators here seem to have got it quite right yet. The options -

GNE - Flexi 5 - 5 individual tickets (usage within one month of first ticket) plus limited PAYG on Voltra 53/54.

Arriva - 3 Day Flexi - 3 individual tickets (usage within 7 days of first ticket)

Stagecoach Flexi5 - 5 day riders for the price of 4 (12 month validity) - currently only in Sunderland 

Metro - Existing PAYG option

Network One  - Still under the impression its 1999 - as forward thinking as a reversing Streetlite

Nexus Bus - Making Network One look like Apple

Stagecoach has the best deal purely as the 12 month validity is a real vote winner, though its limited rollout is disappointing (unsure whether its just testing in Sunderland)

Although I will be returning around 2 days a week next year it won't necessarily be every week and the extremely limited validity offered by Arriva and GNE is disappointing and I'd be loathed to invest in a ticket that I might end up wasting - if I had even 60 days with the GNE I'd be more comfortable, you've got my money - let me choose how I ride. I wouldn't touch the Arriva one with a bargepole unless I was sure I was going in that week

I'm a fan of the GNE Flexi 5 offering, but mainly because I'm saving £2 a day as oppose to needing an All Zones day ticket for a normal commute. It still works out at £5 a day for an All Zones ticket though, despite the daily equivalent of a monthly ticket working out at £3.16. However, if you compare with someone working 5 days a week in the office, with an average of 22 working days in a month (where you're likely to use the ticket), that would work out at £4.31 a day.

It might only be 69p difference, but its still a premium for using flexible ticketing. If you're trying to encourage people working to new hybrid systems to use buses when in the office, charging them up to £2 extra a day is very unlikely to be the answer.

I also feel the 30 day usage is restrictive. I don't know about others, but certainly we aren't running to a system of X days a week in the office, and its very much as and when that I go in (mainly down to personal choice).

I'd like to see larger bundles of flexible tickets available, with a longer validity period. I note Transdev already do this with their ticket offerings, with bundles of 10 on their Daytripper plus and the more local offerings. Bundles of 12 single journeys are also available. However, a bundle of 10 Harrogate tickets for example is £37.60 (£3.76 a day) whereas a standard monthly ticket for the same area is £52.00 (£1.73 a day - or £2.36 if you work to an average of 22 working days per month). This is more significant in price difference to GNE's offering, despite you paying well in advance for your journeys. 

I think its evident that operators are attempting a variety of new things, but at the same time it requires some caution, as to not further over-complicate and already complicated ticketing system. I'd hope operators could work together within NEBus to ensure the same framework for their tickets. So they'd still be separate commercial offerings, but things like bundle sizes, validity periods and methods of purchase are the same.

I totally agree with your comments about Network One. I note they recently created a new offering in the form of a 'plus' weekly ticket - an extension to Northumberland and County Durham. They're probably 30 years too late in doing it though, as I think we're establishing that a large chunk of Mon-Fri commuting will be missing post-pandemic. It's also restrictive, as you cannot mix and match zones (and I'd bet there'd be very few commuters travelling across all three counties), and its expensive. Only a weekly offering is available, meaning to use this annually, it'd cost you £1,768 - or £618 more than the existing annual all zones ticket. This doesn't actually solve a very real problem of shorter journeys that require two operators.

(05 Sep 2021, 9:46 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes, everything is reported for transparency. Today has been quite unusual - both for the company and in terms of what the wider industry is going through.

I recently heard there was one day fairly recently where 26% of Arriva Darlington’s mileage was lost due to no driver being available (far greater than your example of 90 journeys across the whole of Go North East today) - but you’d not know, as it wasn’t posted on social media.

The whole industry is going through incredibly tough times at the moment (as are many other sectors, but public transport gives the impression of being worse - a driver shortage results in journeys being cancelled, whereas a shortage of staff in a fast food restaurant or bakery for example just means there is longer waiting times for your food).

I’d say all three operators in our region should probably be considering reducing service levels so at least then the journeys cancelled are planned - alas, Arriva Durham’s situation is set to get a lot worse with Go North East and JH Coaches no longer operating services 6, 7 and 64 on their behalf.


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Not helped by the state of their fleet. Twice in as many weeks I've seen one of their E200s conked out and it's not like I leave the house every day.

(07 Sep 2021, 2:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I'm a fan of the GNE Flexi 5 offering, but mainly because I'm saving £2 a day as oppose to needing an All Zones day ticket for a normal commute. It still works out at £5 a day for an All Zones ticket though, despite the daily equivalent of a monthly ticket working out at £3.16. However, if you compare with someone working 5 days a week in the office, with an average of 22 working days in a month (where you're likely to use the ticket), that would work out at £4.31 a day.

It might only be 69p difference, but its still a premium for using flexible ticketing. If you're trying to encourage people working to new hybrid systems to use buses when in the office, charging them up to £2 extra a day is very unlikely to be the answer.

I also feel the 30 day usage is restrictive. I don't know about others, but certainly we aren't running to a system of X days a week in the office, and its very much as and when that I go in (mainly down to personal choice).

I'd like to see larger bundles of flexible tickets available, with a longer validity period. I note Transdev already do this with their ticket offerings, with bundles of 10 on their Daytripper plus and the more local offerings. Bundles of 12 single journeys are also available. However, a bundle of 10 Harrogate tickets for example is £37.60 (£3.76 a day) whereas a standard monthly ticket for the same area is £52.00 (£1.73 a day - or £2.36 if you work to an average of 22 working days per month). This is more significant in price difference to GNE's offering, despite you paying well in advance for your journeys. 

I think its evident that operators are attempting a variety of new things, but at the same time it requires some caution, as to not further over-complicate and already complicated ticketing system. I'd hope operators could work together within NEBus to ensure the same framework for their tickets. So they'd still be separate commercial offerings, but things like bundle sizes, validity periods and methods of purchase are the same.

I totally agree with your comments about Network One. I note they recently created a new offering in the form of a 'plus' weekly ticket - an extension to Northumberland and County Durham. They're probably 30 years too late in doing it though, as I think we're establishing that a large chunk of Mon-Fri commuting will be missing post-pandemic. It's also restrictive, as you cannot mix and match zones (and I'd bet there'd be very few commuters travelling across all three counties), and its expensive. Only a weekly offering is available, meaning to use this annually, it'd cost you £1,768 - or £618 more than the existing annual all zones ticket. This doesn't actually solve a very real problem of shorter journeys that require two operators.

I was thinking about starting up my monthly ticket again, but honestly I think I'm probably just going to stick with buying the Flexi 5 tickets for the foreseeable future. 

I've been finding myself doing quite a bit of travel in Arriva areas recently, so there are some days I just need an Arriva day ticket.

I'd love to use the the Network One All Zone Plus ticket, but I feel I can get better value paying for individual tickets as I've no reason to venture into Northumberland on the regular. 
Even then, if I did have to go to Northumberland, I'd probably be better off just getting an Arriva Regionwide ticket for the one day I may use it.

I can talk about my experience in Hartlepool. Most of the town has no bus service at all after 6:30. So if you went to Seaton Carew you couldn’t stay there on a night as the last bus back to the town is at about 6:40 after that nothing. I was at College doing a course that finished at 7. That meant waiting about 20 minutes for the 36 or if I was lucky the 7 if I got to the stop on time as both where 10 minutes apart. Even recently during the temporary timetables the 7 was supposed to be every 15 minutes but quite often they would be a 30 to 40 minute gap. The fleet Stagecoach in the town is crying out for investment the last new buses the town got was in 2008 the newest buses in the fleet are 10 years old and spent years in South Shields or Sunderland before Hartlepool got them and at least half the fleet is knackered you often see them breaking down here or buses been swapped because a problem has been found. Never mind USB or wi fi some modern buses or even newer cascades or refurbished buses that don’t sound like it could break would be good here because a knackered fleet and majority of town having no service after 6:30 is hardly a good way to get people using the bus.

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(07 Sep 2021, 3:59 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Not helped by the state of their fleet. Twice in as many weeks I've seen one of their E200s conked out and it's not like I leave the house every day.

Them Arriva E200s Arriva use are just awful. I was unfortunate to ride on one on the 57A earlier this year and my backside was killing by the time I got off at Hartlepool Interchange the seats are awful the engine did not sound to good either hardly encouraging people to use the service regularly. The difference between that and the street lite/ pulsars/E400 on the 24 are massive.

The probability of a 1830 finish is one of the main reasons I've chosen to work Hartlepool depot when I complete my training.

(10 Sep 2021, 7:13 am)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]The probability of a 1830 finish is one of the main reasons I've chosen to work Hartlepool depot when I complete my training.

You still have the 6/7 triangle on a evening though.  It might be better ok coming from you as driver thinking easy finish but it does nothing for the people of the town who have no buses at all in most areas.

Yes there is those routes. But the chances of regularly being one of those 3 evening drivers are fairly slim. As for the lack of evening services, that's something only Hartlepool Council and it's potential contractors can change. I'm merely a driver and have no control over such things. But as things stand, that's the main reason I chose Hartlepool. Should the situation change, I'll still do the job but probably transfer to Sunderland.