(27 May 2025, 9:52 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I see the 56 most days and its busy, which is good, its good to them investing in new buses again... even if the ones for the 21 are from funding.
Wonder when they'll arrive?
It does feel like a lifetime since the demos were on the 21
Not going too off topic but it seems an odd call that Durham was fitted with chargers like Harrogate was when it was rebuilt.
(27 May 2025, 9:30 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Tbf this is GNE using some commercial nouse at last.
The stock on the 21 and 56 are money makers and are looking more dilapidated by the day, especially internally, new vehicles coming to those routes makes sense if the cash is there to do so. You can then cascade down and upgrade your other routes.
The X21 obviously isn’t high on the agenda which suggests it doesn’t make a huge income, most commuters will use the train as opposed to that service.
I do think the 10/10A/10B/12 trump the 56 though as 6071-85 have been hammered, not forgetting that they often stood in on the X9/X10 when either 6043-48 or the 4 pot heaps threw a wobbler especially when the routes were split.
However, I can maybe see a case for the 56 though as the B9TLs would still have some serviceable life left in them.
My money for cascades would be
Option 1:
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 47 (PVR 7.....from Jul 2025)
- 6043-48 - X5/X15 and spares
- Classic E400's from 16/16A to Riverside for local & misc work
Option 2:
- X20 (PVR 6)
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 1x extra for 47 PVR increase
- Classic E400's maybe for X5/X15 or used on local & misc work
Is there potentially new buses ordered for more routes than the 56 as well?
(27 May 2025, 12:27 pm)Retro Nero wrote [ -> ]Yes , apparently new ADLs on order for Go North East as well as the Electric Deckers .
So are Go North East going for Electric ADLs for the 21?
The only routes I know of due an upgrade (taking into account what's said on here are)
X66 and 58 - 11 Electric single deck by 2026 (Zebra round 2 funding)
21 - No idea on number but Electric double deck (Zebra 1 funding - I think)
56 - New ADLs
(28 May 2025, 4:11 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]The only routes I know of due an upgrade (taking into account what's said on here are)
X66 and 58 - 11 Electric single deck by 2026 (Zebra round 2 funding)
21 - No idea on number but Electric double deck (Zebra 1 funding - I think)
56 - New ADLs
The 58 is Deckers if I remember right.
The 21 is leveling up fund isn't it? Same funding as the 43/44/45 North of the Tyne, if I remember right.
6352 and 6354 both replaced on the X10 today and 6353 and 6355 have both been off the road since the 19th May and 12th May surely it’s time for new buses on them X10’s the E400MMC’s are awful things constantly having problems.
(28 May 2025, 4:17 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]The 58 is Deckers if I remember right.
The 21 is leveling up fund isn't it? Same funding as the 43/44/45 North of the Tyne, if I remember right.
That's right, the 21 was from Levelling Up. Interesting that the Arriva funding for the 43/44/45 has only been approved earlier this year and the planning permission for their depot modifications just got approval last week. I wonder if GNE have seen similar delays in the funding being released?
(27 May 2025, 10:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I do think the 10/10A/10B/12 trump the 56 though as 6071-85 have been hammered, not forgetting that they often stood in on the X9/X10 when either 6043-48 or the 4 pot heaps threw a wobbler especially when the routes were split.
However, I can maybe see a case for the 56 though as the B9TLs would still have some serviceable life left in them.
My money for cascades would be
Option 1:
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 47 (PVR 7.....from Jul 2025)
- 6043-48 - X5/X15 and spares
- Classic E400's from 16/16A to Riverside for local & misc work
Option 2:
- X20 (PVR 6)
- 16/16A (PVR 8)
- 1x extra for 47 PVR increase
- Classic E400's maybe for X5/X15 or used on local & misc work
Not sure I'd be betting on that mind.
Personally if I had to take a punt I'd say they'll be going to Consett for the X45/47/X5/X15 with the E400MMC's formally doing the X30/X31/X32/X70/X71/X72/X73 which they've been pretty much doing recently anyway.
Means there's the opportunity to displace some singles out to elsewhere aswell to get shot of more Versa's since they've currently got 21 singles for a PVR 13*. *think that's right anyway.
(28 May 2025, 4:59 pm)Shrek wrote [ -> ]That's right, the 21 was from Levelling Up. Interesting that the Arriva funding for the 43/44/45 has only been approved earlier this year and the planning permission for their depot modifications just got approval last week. I wonder if GNE have seen similar delays in the funding being released?
Aye I seen that, it's a strange one as Stagecoach's are already on the road - so god knows. Never know anything with the councils up here, who lost the ferry funding first time round as missed the deadline for that (supposedly).
Should bring back Fab 56 brand. Never should have gone in the first place.
(28 May 2025, 5:28 pm)Arriva7446 wrote [ -> ]Should bring back Fab 56 brand. Never should have gone in the first place.
Personally thought it was very dated and of its time.
(28 May 2025, 5:06 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Not sure I'd be betting on that mind.
Personally if I had to take a punt I'd say they'll be going to Consett for the X45/47/X5/X15 with the E400MMC's formally doing the X30/X31/X32/X70/X71/X72/X73 which they've been pretty much doing recently anyway.
I know this is unpopular, but I'd go with 6308-14 on the X45 (with x2 spare) and B9TLs ending up on the X20. Yes they've been quite sketchy reliability wise. But with x2 spare and one rest day per week (with the 6/12/X30/X72 and X30/X45/X72 Sunday interworkings covered by E200MMC/E400MMC), they'd be fine.
In comparison to the X30s/X70s which have quite a few challenging sections, the Shotley Bridge to Newcastle section of the X45 (most of the route) is fairly straightforward and was previously handled fine using StreetLites & StreetDecks.
Ideally, we both know they should leave GNE in exchange for a more common vehicle type.
(28 May 2025, 6:43 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I know this is unpopular, but I'd go with 6308-14 on the X45 (with x2 spare) and B9TLs ending up on the X20. Yes they've been quite sketchy reliability wise. But with x2 spare and one rest day per week (with the 6/12/X30/X72 and X30/X45/X72 Sunday interworkings covered by E200MMC/E400MMC), they'd be fine.
In comparison to the X30s/X70s which have quite a few challenging sections, the Shotley Bridge to Newcastle section of the X45 (most of the route) is fairly straightforward and was previously handled fine using StreetLites & StreetDecks.
Ideally, we both know they should leave GNE in exchange for a more common vehicle type.
To be honest, GoAhead being the way it is lately, I wouldn't be surprised if the B5TL's left as part of this investment. The other 8 heading to Consett to see off the oldest buses there and just being on the X5/X15/X45/47.
Probably best for all parties if they left but doesn't help the elderly fleet up here much.
(28 May 2025, 6:59 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]To be honest, GoAhead being the way it is lately, I wouldn't be surprised if the B5TL's left as part of this investment. The other 8 heading to Consett to see off the oldest buses there and just being on the X5/X15/X45/47.
Probably best for all parties if they left but doesn't help the elderly fleet up here much.
Well EY have x7 dealer stock B9TL (x4 of them originally GNE 6118-21). Would GNE not be better doing a swap with EY? Even if they're kept away from CAZ work.
Also had a bit of a bluesky thought.
Think the PVR interworking would be x13 or x14, but would something like this not be worth some future investment?
- x14Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora
- 45 every 20/40 mins
- 46 every 60 mins
- 47 every 20 minutes and Consett > Blackhall Mill extension replaced by another service
Originally, it was the 47 that needed double deck capacity. Surely the 47 would cope fine on a 20 minute frequency and a nice clean 10 minute frequency between Rowlands Gill and Newcastle.
Basically buy good solid heavy duty vehicles and run them into the ground until they're 15-20 year old! GNE did it with the B10BLEs.
(28 May 2025, 7:38 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Well EY have x7 dealer stock B9TL (x4 of them originally GNE 6118-21). Would GNE not be better doing a swap with EY? Even if they're kept away from CAZ work.
Also had a bit of a bluesky thought.
Think the PVR interworking would be x13 or x14, but would something like this not be worth some future investment?
- x14Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora
- 45 every 20/40 mins
- 46 every 60 mins
- 47 every 20 minutes and Consett > Blackhall Mill extension replaced by another service
Originally, it was the 47 that needed double deck capacity. Surely the 47 would cope fine on a 20 minute frequency and a nice clean 10 minute frequency between Rowlands Gill and Newcastle.
Basically buy good solid heavy duty vehicles and run them into the ground until they're 15-20 year old! GNE did it with the B10BLEs.
Truthfully if they sent them down I'd expect nothing in return tbh. They seem to be trying to invest as little as they can up here but when you've got 10 buses on lease you've probably pushed it a bit too far. There's plenty old and weird buses ie. B9TL E400's which are finished down there I'm sure they could replace.
Can't see much more investment than what they've got personally for any route unless it involves free handouts, as it probably doesn't look good if the local councils are offering you cash and you outright refuse it. It's just fuelling fire for Kim's vendetta against you (rightfully or wrongly).
(28 May 2025, 7:48 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Truthfully if they sent them down I'd expect nothing in return tbh. They seem to be trying to invest as little as they can up here but when you've got 10 buses on lease you've probably pushed it a bit too far. There's plenty old and weird buses ie. B9TL E400's which are finished down there I'm sure they could replace.
Can't see much more investment than what they've got personally for any route unless it involves free handouts, as it probably doesn't look good if the local councils are offering you cash and you outright refuse it. It's just fuelling fire for Kim's vendetta against you (rightfully or wrongly).
See, I think GNE do need to keep investing though despite franchising possibly happening.
Other than the EV's (subsidised of course), GNE haven't invested in any new vehicles since the 2019-20 financial year regardless of delivery date. The last new diesel vehicles being the x15 E400MMC originally for the X1 (+1 for the X30) before the fleet was swapped around.
GNE have had 5 clear financial years to get back into good health since the 2020-21 financial year. Demand is returning in quite a lot of instances. I don't think GNE will go all out and do 100+ vehicle orders in a year like seen in the past. But wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 30-40 new vehicles per year.
(28 May 2025, 5:28 pm)Arriva7446 wrote [ -> ]Should bring back Fab 56 brand. Never should have gone in the first place.
what was " fab" about it was what my workmates who used it use to say!
(29 May 2025, 7:08 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]See, I think GNE do need to keep investing though despite franchising possibly happening.
Other than the EV's (subsidised of course), GNE haven't invested in any new vehicles since the 2019-20 financial year regardless of delivery date. The last new diesel vehicles being the x15 E400MMC originally for the X1 (+1 for the X30) before the fleet was swapped around.
GNE have had 5 clear financial years to get back into good health since the 2020-21 financial year. Demand is returning in quite a lot of instances. I don't think GNE will go all out and do 100+ vehicle orders in a year like seen in the past. But wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 30-40 new vehicles per year.
Even known they probably should, I just can't see it.
Why bother investing up here when you're going to lose it and it's not very profitable anyway. Alternatively, you could invest in somewhere like Brighton or Oxford which are very profitable areas and there's no plans for franchising, at all, and displace those buses to other areas ie. up here.
Those two have had massive investment aswell, imo they'll be doing the bare minimum to scrape through up here, hence the lack of investment anyway.
(29 May 2025, 8:46 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Even known they probably should, I just can't see it.
Why bother investing up here when you're going to lose it and it's not very profitable anyway. Alternatively, you could invest in somewhere like Brighton or Oxford which are very profitable areas and there's no plans for franchising, at all, and displace those buses to other areas ie. up here.
Those two have had massive investment aswell, imo they'll be doing the bare minimum to scrape through up here, hence the lack of investment anyway.
Could say the same for Arriva & Stagecoach who have invested or placed half-decent cascades into the NECA area.
GNE have proven that they can only go so far with no investment. Worst case if GNE lose work with franchising, send any decent vehicles to the Bee Network (if GNW win anything) or to Brighton, Oxford or East Yorkshire.
(29 May 2025, 10:30 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Could say the same for Arriva & Stagecoach who have invested or placed half-decent cascades into the NECA area.
GNE have proven that they can only go so far with no investment. Worst case if GNE lose work with franchising, send any decent vehicles to the Bee Network (if GNW win anything) or to Brighton, Oxford or East Yorkshire.
Aye, difference between Stagecoach and Arriva though is they don't have much outside the franchised areas, Arriva in particular.
I'd say Stagecoach has been investing more outside the franchised areas though. Stockton and Inverness are two areas which have had massive investment.
Btw you should check out Manchester, Stagecoach were really credited for going out on a high. GoNorthWest couldn't be any further away from it and we've got the same clown in charge up here.
(28 May 2025, 4:37 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]6352 and 6354 both replaced on the X10 today and 6353 and 6355 have both been off the road since the 19th May and 12th May surely it’s time for new buses on them X10’s the E400MMC’s are awful things constantly having problems.
Everything that has ever been on the X10 (and X9) has broken down.
(29 May 2025, 10:42 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Everything that has ever been on the X10 (and X9) has broken down.
Pure and simple, the X10 does not have enough fleet rotation.
Look at Arriva Ashington. 30+ E400MMC which can do anything from the X21/35, X22 all the way to the X18.
GNE rely on the same E400MMC + 6377 which is not enough. A stronger fleet rotation with more E400MMC at Riverside (i.e Whickham & Dunston going back to half hourly) will sort a lot of issues out.
(29 May 2025, 10:42 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Everything that has ever been on the X10 (and X9) has broken down.
It's not a conventional bus route. It should still be coaches imo, it's ideal for it, just not the awful interdeck vehicles which have way too many steps to get on board.
I still don't understand why they don't sell it as a premium service similar to The Airline service down in Oxford. The train service between the two cities is dire as an understatement so offering a premium product would do well imo and the routes aren't a million miles away from each other.
Heck you could make a case for extending it to the airport since the Metro is down every other week and would give direct connections further down the region. The Edinburgh Airbus which everyone expected to die overnight after the opening of the tram is still doing very well.
An X1 branded decker was getting a lift home along the Western Bypass earlier on.
the "premium service" is already covered by Nat Express Megabus between Newcastle to boro
(31 May 2025, 7:29 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]the "premium service" is already covered by Nat Express Megabus between Newcastle to boro
Not much use if you want to go to the spots inbetween though. If you want to grow buses then you need to create a decent alternative to cars and a conventional bus with a screaming turbo for over an hour struggling down the A19 isn't that.
Stagecoach in Scotland nails routes like these perfectly ie the X54/X54A/X59/X59A from Edinburgh to St Andrews / Dundee which aren't a million miles away in distance and yet run every 20 minutes combined and serve arguably serve less population aswell.
It's not like Riverside don't have a coach department either so there's no issues there ie. you don't want 4 random coaches for maintenance issues etc.
6356 currently on the hard shoulder south of durham turn off on A1
(31 May 2025, 9:54 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]6356 currently on the hard shoulder south of durham turn off on A1
Looks like it conked out in Billingham on its first run of the day, yesterday.
(31 May 2025, 12:11 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Looks like it conked out in Billingham on its first run of the day, yesterday.
Why the hell are these being sent to deputise for E400MMC on the X10? Surely Riverside must have some Crusader or TVT B9TL capable of at least making a round trip!
(31 May 2025, 8:53 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Not much use if you want to go to the spots inbetween though. If you want to grow buses then you need to create a decent alternative to cars and a conventional bus with a screaming turbo for over an hour struggling down the A19 isn't that.
Stagecoach in Scotland nails routes like these perfectly ie the X54/X54A/X59/X59A from Edinburgh to St Andrews / Dundee which aren't a million miles away in distance and yet run every 20 minutes combined and serve arguably serve less population aswell.
It's not like Riverside don't have a coach department either so there's no issues there ie. you don't want 4 random coaches for maintenance issues etc.
Literally the easiest thing to do (without changing the vehicle rotation around) is to just buy Plaxton Panther LEs. These work really well around Scotland, have no boarding issues, are basically a coach and service bus combined.
And bonus they fit in Eldon Square too, think back to when they trialled one back in 2019(?).
And bonus bonus they won't lose the route (and vehicles) with franchising as it is well outside of the area from south of Peterlee!
Alternatively offer to route swap with Stagecoach or Arriva as both of them would be interested as both have more stable networks in Tyneside & Teeside. Of which GNE definitely does not!