(29 May 2025, 8:46 am)Storx wrote Even known they probably should, I just can't see it.

Why bother investing up here when you're going to lose it and it's not very profitable anyway. Alternatively, you could invest in somewhere like Brighton or Oxford which are very profitable areas and there's no plans for franchising, at all, and displace those buses to other areas ie. up here. 

Those two have had massive investment aswell, imo they'll be doing the bare minimum to scrape through up here, hence the lack of investment anyway.

Could say the same for Arriva & Stagecoach who have invested or placed half-decent cascades into the NECA area.

GNE have proven that they can only go so far with no investment. Worst case if GNE lose work with franchising, send any decent vehicles to the Bee Network (if GNW win anything) or to Brighton, Oxford or East Yorkshire.

(29 May 2025, 10:30 am)L469 YVK wrote Could say the same for Arriva & Stagecoach who have invested or placed half-decent cascades into the NECA area.

GNE have proven that they can only go so far with no investment. Worst case if GNE lose work with franchising, send any decent vehicles to the Bee Network (if GNW win anything) or to Brighton, Oxford or East Yorkshire.

Aye, difference between Stagecoach and Arriva though is they don't have much outside the franchised areas, Arriva in particular.

I'd say Stagecoach has been investing more outside the franchised areas though. Stockton and Inverness are two areas which have had massive investment.

Btw you should check out Manchester, Stagecoach were really credited for going out on a high. GoNorthWest couldn't be any further away from it and we've got the same clown in charge up here.

(28 May 2025, 4:37 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote 6352 and 6354 both replaced on the X10 today and 6353 and 6355 have both been off the road since the 19th May and 12th May surely it’s time for new buses on them X10’s the E400MMC’s are awful things constantly having problems.

Everything that has ever been on the X10 (and X9) has broken down.

(29 May 2025, 10:42 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Everything that has ever been on the X10 (and X9) has broken down.

Pure and simple, the X10 does not have enough fleet rotation.

Look at Arriva Ashington. 30+ E400MMC which can do anything from the X21/35, X22 all the way to the X18.

GNE rely on the same E400MMC + 6377 which is not enough. A stronger fleet rotation  with more E400MMC at Riverside (i.e Whickham & Dunston going back to half hourly) will sort a lot of issues out.

(29 May 2025, 10:42 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Everything that has ever been on the X10 (and X9) has broken down.

It's not a conventional bus route. It should still be coaches imo, it's ideal for it, just not the awful interdeck vehicles which have way too many steps to get on board.

I still don't understand why they don't sell it as a premium service similar to The Airline service down in Oxford. The train service between the two cities is dire as an understatement so offering a premium product would do well imo and the routes aren't a million miles away from each other.

Heck you could make a case for extending it to the airport since the Metro is down every other week and would give direct connections further down the region. The Edinburgh Airbus which everyone expected to die overnight after the opening of the tram is still doing very well.

An X1 branded decker was getting a lift home along the Western Bypass earlier on.

the "premium service" is already covered by Nat Express Megabus between Newcastle to boro

(31 May 2025, 7:29 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote the "premium service" is already covered by Nat Express Megabus between Newcastle to boro

Not much use if you want to go to the spots inbetween though. If you want to grow buses then you need to create a decent alternative to cars and a conventional bus with a screaming turbo for over an hour struggling down the A19 isn't that. 

Stagecoach in Scotland nails routes like these perfectly ie the X54/X54A/X59/X59A from Edinburgh to St Andrews / Dundee which aren't a million miles away in distance and yet run every 20 minutes combined and serve arguably serve less population aswell.

It's not like Riverside don't have a coach department either so there's no issues there ie. you don't want 4 random coaches for maintenance issues etc.

6356 currently on the hard shoulder south of durham turn off on A1

(31 May 2025, 9:54 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote 6356 currently on the hard shoulder south of durham turn off on A1

Looks like it conked out in Billingham on its first run of the day, yesterday.

(31 May 2025, 12:11 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Looks like it conked out in Billingham on its first run of the day, yesterday.

Why the hell are these being sent to deputise for E400MMC on the X10? Surely Riverside must have some Crusader or TVT B9TL capable of at least making a round trip!

(31 May 2025, 8:53 am)Storx wrote Not much use if you want to go to the spots inbetween though. If you want to grow buses then you need to create a decent alternative to cars and a conventional bus with a screaming turbo for over an hour struggling down the A19 isn't that. 

Stagecoach in Scotland nails routes like these perfectly ie the X54/X54A/X59/X59A from Edinburgh to St Andrews / Dundee which aren't a million miles away in distance and yet run every 20 minutes combined and serve arguably serve less population aswell.

It's not like Riverside don't have a coach department either so there's no issues there ie. you don't want 4 random coaches for maintenance issues etc.

Literally the easiest thing to do (without changing the vehicle rotation around) is to just buy Plaxton Panther LEs. These work really well around Scotland, have no boarding issues, are basically a coach and service bus combined. 

And bonus they fit in Eldon Square too, think back to when they trialled one back in 2019(?). 

And bonus bonus they won't lose the route (and vehicles) with franchising as it is well outside of the area from south of Peterlee!

Alternatively offer to route swap with Stagecoach or Arriva as both of them would be interested as both have more stable networks in Tyneside & Teeside. Of which GNE definitely does not!

The problem is that the X10 fits the route profile of both a coach & bus.

Anything bigger than a 53 seater = bye bye Eldon Square which didn't work well the last time.

And given that both the X9/X10 carried good loads and probably would again if the X9 was re-introducted, deckers are the only option.

Unless GNE went to every 20 minutes using Plaxton Panther LE's, but that would take the PVR to over 10x vehicles and the load numbers would need to be consistently good.

Only other way a sustainable decker operation could happen would be through fleet rotation with a combined fleet working the likes of the X21 and preferably also the 10/10A/10B/12. Basically 1 hard day on the A19 followed by easier days doing the above.

All the ADLs return to the leasing company on Monday

(31 May 2025, 3:25 pm)logidoodah wrote Literally the easiest thing to do (without changing the vehicle rotation around) is to just buy Plaxton Panther LEs. These work really well around Scotland, have no boarding issues, are basically a coach and service bus combined. 

And bonus they fit in Eldon Square too, think back to when they trialled one back in 2019(?). 

And bonus bonus they won't lose the route (and vehicles) with franchising as it is well outside of the area from south of Peterlee!

Alternatively offer to route swap with Stagecoach or Arriva as both of them would be interested as both have more stable networks in Tyneside & Teeside. Of which GNE definitely does not!

Yeah honestly don't disagree at all. They'd be perfect for the route and offer a service which is well above what it is now aswell with the bonus of sorting out the reliability issues.

(31 May 2025, 4:33 pm)L469 YVK wrote The problem is that the X10 fits the route profile of both a coach & bus.

Anything bigger than a 53 seater = bye bye Eldon Square which didn't work well the last time.

And given that both the X9/X10 carried good loads and probably would again if the X9 was re-introducted, deckers are the only option.

Unless GNE went to every 20 minutes using Plaxton Panther LE's, but that would take the PVR to over 10x vehicles and the load numbers would need to be consistently good.

Only other way a sustainable decker operation could happen would be through fleet rotation with a combined fleet working the likes of the X21 and preferably also the 10/10A/10B/12. Basically 1 hard day on the A19 followed by easier days doing the above.

I'm not sure Eldon Square was the real issue last time round; the serious issue was the vehicles, as they had the interdecks on which have horrendously steep steps, well above a normal coach nvm Panther LE's. They were never appropiate for the route. Stagecoach tried them in North Scotland until they were scrapped very quickly aswell due to complaints over the same problems.

If the coaches are full and they're not making money then they're doing something very wrong, I'd imagine there's much more potential for growth as I can tell you with confidence I'd never use the X10 with a conventional bus on; if they had a coach on I could be tempted though if I needed to head down there since the trains are appalling.

if a coach cannot fit in Eldon Square could it fit in Haymarket?

(31 May 2025, 6:32 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote if a coach cannot fit in Eldon Square could it fit in Haymarket?

Is there actually an issue with coaches bar the really long interdeckers, which are hopeless anyway? Arriva and GoNorthEast have both ran coaches into it over the years.

(31 May 2025, 7:06 pm)Storx wrote Is there actually an issue with coaches bar the really long interdeckers, which are hopeless anyway? Arriva and GoNorthEast have both ran coaches into it over the years.

move the bus station locations after all it is cheaper for a bus to depart from Haymarket than Eldon Square

(31 May 2025, 7:53 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote move the bus station locations after all it is cheaper for a bus to depart from Haymarket than Eldon Square

Sorry was talking about Eldon Square there but Haymarket has had coaches with the 518 etc back in the day aswell tbf. 

I know this is a bit off topic from this but Newcastle badly needs a decent coach station or at least some reasonable place as the National Express coach station is a complete dive and miles out of the way and John Dobson Street is completely unacceptable imo and has nothing bar a post. Whatever the solution is, is probably where the X10 really should be leaving from since it's long distance aswell. It's something that's never really spoke about, pretty much every other city in the country including Sunderland, has a much better coach station than Newcastle. Mind it wouldn't take much as a basic bus shelter would be better that what we've got right now.

(31 May 2025, 8:22 pm)Storx wrote Whatever the solution is, is probably where the X10 really should be leaving from since it's long distance aswell.

The following services are all longer distance than the X10, and are operated from a bus station without issue:

685, X12, X15, X16, X18, X20, X74

Not sure why the X10 is any different to the above?

(31 May 2025, 10:42 pm)PH - BQA wrote The following services are all longer distance than the X10, and are operated from a bus station without issue:

685, X12, X15, X16, X18, X20, X74

Not sure why the X10 is any different to the above?

Nature of the route? 

Not sure any of the above have routes as intense as the X10.

---

(31 May 2025, 8:22 pm)Storx wrote Sorry was talking about Eldon Square there but Haymarket has had coaches with the 518 etc back in the day aswell tbf. 

I know this is a bit off topic from this but Newcastle badly needs a decent coach station or at least some reasonable place as the National Express coach station is a complete dive and miles out of the way and John Dobson Street is completely unacceptable imo and has nothing bar a post. Whatever the solution is, is probably where the X10 really should be leaving from since it's long distance aswell. It's something that's never really spoke about, pretty much every other city in the country including Sunderland, has a much better coach station than Newcastle. Mind it wouldn't take much as a basic bus shelter would be better that what we've got right now.

The 685 managed OK in Eldon Square when it was coach operated didn't it?

(31 May 2025, 10:42 pm)PH - BQA wrote The following services are all longer distance than the X10, and are operated from a bus station without issue:

685, X12, X15, X16, X18, X20, X74

Not sure why the X10 is any different to the above?

Personally I'd argue some of those probably should be coaches aswell, especially the X15/X18 which run North of Alnwick. It wouldn't work really without splitting it off from their routes South of Alnwick though but that's another thread but don't see why it couldn't work it the X16 and the dead 777 resources were used for it. Alnwick to Newcastle probably deserves 2 BPH with one only stopping at Morpeth Bus Station and would help the Ashington issues aswell since these are the two which are killing buses every few years aswell. 

These routes are no different to the X's out of Edinburgh which are the only routes which get into their bus station. See: https://bustimes.org/stops/6200600744

(31 May 2025, 11:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote The 685 managed OK in Eldon Square when it was coach operated didn't it?

Yeah I think so, from what I can remember anyway.

(31 May 2025, 5:23 pm)Storx wrote Yeah honestly don't disagree at all. They'd be perfect for the route and offer a service which is well above what it is now aswell with the bonus of sorting out the reliability issues.


I'm not sure Eldon Square was the real issue last time round; the serious issue was the vehicles, as they had the interdecks on which have horrendously steep steps, well above a normal coach nvm Panther LE's. They were never appropiate for the route. Stagecoach tried them in North Scotland until they were scrapped very quickly aswell due to complaints over the same problems.

If the coaches are full and they're not making money then they're doing something very wrong, I'd imagine there's much more potential for growth as I can tell you with confidence I'd never use the X10 with a conventional bus on; if they had a coach on I could be tempted though if I needed to head down there since the trains are appalling.

They are still used on the X6x services between Aberdeen and Peterhead/Fraserbrough.

Just a quick scan on bustimes showed they were out yesterday

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/sblb-54247
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/sblb-54248
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/sblb-54249

(01 Jun 2025, 5:36 am)citaro5284 wrote They are still used on the X6x services between Aberdeen and Peterhead/Fraserbrough.

Just a quick scan on bustimes showed they were out yesterday

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/sblb-54247
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/sblb-54248
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/sblb-54249

Aye different route it was literally North Scotland, on the X99. Was absolute hell on about them.

https://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/new...sm-204716/

Arguably even worse than down here.

(31 May 2025, 8:22 pm)Storx wrote Sorry was talking about Eldon Square there but Haymarket has had coaches with the 518 etc back in the day aswell tbf. 

I know this is a bit off topic from this but Newcastle badly needs a decent coach station or at least some reasonable place as the National Express coach station is a complete dive and miles out of the way and John Dobson Street is completely unacceptable imo and has nothing bar a post. Whatever the solution is, is probably where the X10 really should be leaving from since it's long distance aswell. It's something that's never really spoke about, pretty much every other city in the country including Sunderland, has a much better coach station than Newcastle. Mind it wouldn't take much as a basic bus shelter would be better that what we've got right now.

You'd have to demolish half of M&S and the Eldon Square multi storey and combine the two bus stations together. Absolutely something that should be done to make a station suitable for Newcastle, but it's not going to happen.

(31 May 2025, 11:26 pm)Storx wrote Personally I'd argue some of those probably should be coaches aswell, especially the X15/X18 which run North of Alnwick. It wouldn't work really without splitting it off from their routes South of Alnwick though but that's another thread but don't see why it couldn't work it the X16 and the dead 777 resources were used for it. Alnwick to Newcastle probably deserves 2 BPH with one only stopping at Morpeth Bus Station and would help the Ashington issues aswell since these are the two which are killing buses every few years aswell. 

These routes are no different to the X's out of Edinburgh which are the only routes which get into their bus station. See: https://bustimes.org/stops/6200600744


Yeah I think so, from what I can remember anyway.

I travelled on the x18 last Friday afternoon, it came into Morpeth packed, some got off and it left Morpeth virtually full. A coach would have been useless, no luggage space on board, no easy access and probably slower loading. The Enviro 400MMC was perfectly fine and comfortable enough for a speedy run down the A1, plus  a double decker on those routes is great for viewing the superb Northumbrian countryside. Arriva seem to have got it right here, just a shame Ashington lost some MMCs to Redcar / Whitby.

(01 Jun 2025, 9:32 am)RMF1254 wrote I travelled on the x18 last Friday afternoon, it came into Morpeth packed, some got off and it left Morpeth virtually full. A coach would have been useless, no luggage space on board, no easy access and probably slower loading. The Enviro 400MMC was perfectly fine and comfortable enough for a speedy run down the A1, plus  a double decker on those routes is great for viewing the superb Northumbrian countryside. Arriva seem to have got it right here, just a shame Ashington lost some MMCs to Redcar / Whitby.

Difference being is that with Arriva Norhumbria's Ashington operation, the fleet can easily be rotated about. 

Easy day on the X21/35 or X22 then a harder day on the X14/X15/X16/X18/X20.

Their E400 Classics bought in 2014-15 didn't do a bad job and were in no worse state than when GNE's 6043-48 came off the Tyne Tees Xpress after 5 years of service.

Ashington's MMCs 7541-52 as a whole have been alright, and probably had less trouble then some 'newer' StreetDecks in the North East.

GNE's issue with the X10 is that there's no fleet rotation. It's either all or nothing with 6352-55 and 6377. GNE need one single XLines fleet at Riverside covering both the X10 & X21 with a combined PVR of 12x. One hard day on the A19 then two easier days on the X21.

It's evident that E400MMC can be released from Consett for this if GNE reduce Whickham and Dunston back to half-hourly, which is more than sufficient and still double the pre November 2019 capacity when the X30 and peak X97 were single deck operated.

(31 May 2025, 11:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote Nature of the route? 

Not sure any of the above have routes as intense as the X10.

How exactly is the intense nature relevant to them using Eldon Square/Haymarket compared to a coach station?

The post I was replying to said that the X10 should use a coach station due to it being long distance, nothing about how intense it was.

(01 Jun 2025, 9:26 am)deanmachine wrote You'd have to demolish half of M&S and the Eldon Square multi storey and combine the two bus stations together. Absolutely something that should be done to make a station suitable for Newcastle, but it's not going to happen.

Aye no arguments, it's a shame there was never a third bus station built in the area where Worswick with all the Tyne Bridge services moved into it, with space for coaches aswell. Would help having less buses travelling all around Newcastle for absolutely no benefit and open space at Eldon Square for the likes of the 70's to the West End.

Obviously that boat has sailed now though. 

(01 Jun 2025, 9:32 am)RMF1254 wrote I travelled on the x18 last Friday afternoon, it came into Morpeth packed, some got off and it left Morpeth virtually full. A coach would have been useless, no luggage space on board, no easy access and probably slower loading. The Enviro 400MMC was perfectly fine and comfortable enough for a speedy run down the A1, plus  a double decker on those routes is great for viewing the superb Northumbrian countryside. Arriva seem to have got it right here, just a shame Ashington lost some MMCs to Redcar / Whitby.

Replied to this here - https://northeastbuses.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=503&pid=318423#pid318423

Don't want to derail this thread as it's not related to GoNorthEast, at all.

(27 May 2025, 11:20 am)Retro Nero wrote Permanently at Sunderland Depot, I believe it is no longer a lease vehicle due to the two accident damage it has occurred, so the company have now purchased it.
And with the 56s in line for an upgrade to new ADLs this vehicle is being allocated to the 56.

---

682 is now at Sunderland Depot,

9037 seems to of left the fleet, alongside some of the other loans.