North East Buses

(21 Aug 2023, 7:01 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Whitley Bay STACK has been granted a 1pm licence.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chronic...565075.amp

Surely this could be an opportunity to test the water with a night service?

Something like this to start with using the 2212 Coaster 1 ex Whitley Bay after it arrives at the MetroCentre at 0003.

N38 - Grainger Street - Market Street West - Pilgrim Street - John Dobson Street - As per 309 to Battle Hill Drive - Willington Square - As per 308 to Whitley Bay Seafront. And would be using a StreetLite further reducing costs.

ex Newcastle: 00:25
arr Whitley Bay: 01:05
ex Whitley Bay: 01:10
arr Newcastle: 01:50
ex Newcastle: 02:10
arr Whitley Bay: 02:50

1am?

Just because it has one, doesn't mean they will use it. 
Many places have licenses that are longer than their actual opening hours.

(21 Aug 2023, 9:06 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I totally get what you mean about covering the Metro routes. But already (not via Billy Mill though), there is a late service from Newcastle to Whitley Bay (309) at 23:45. That and the 21 being the last services to depart Haymarket & Eldon Square.

Now when the N58 was tried a few years back, it was unattractive due to no commonality with Arriva who at the time were the dominant Coast Road operator. Now with joint ticketing, promotion and marketing......who knows. GNE have the perfect feeder service and vehicle to pick up the first ex Newcastle journey.

If the service ran as N308 rather than N38, punters would know straightaway that it's effectively a 308. Something down the lines off.........

"Staying out even later? Get home with 'N'308. Your same great service 308 operating even later between Newcastle and Whitley Bay Seafront, serving the heart of Newcastle City Centre and additionally serving High Farm & Battle Hill Drive."

See personally, I'd just ignore the day time network and build a unique night service, similar to what London does taking in reflection the Metro isn't running.

I'd try and build something like the below instead:
[attachment=10541]

With the green, purple and red lines all being hourly and the orange and pink lines being every 30 minutes with the the purple line splitting at Four Lane Ends (62/63) and the orange line being Lemington to Wallsend Only and Chapel House to Whitley Bay.

With proper marketing and Metro ticketing integration it would cover pretty much everywhere North of the Tyne. The 39/40 are every 15 minutes until 23:30pm then just die, it's definitely a corridor which has potential similar going through Heaton and Jesmond with the students. Jesmond an area which would be unsuccessful during the day but is a different ball game at night.

It would all need to be Nexus led though.

(21 Aug 2023, 10:26 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]See personally, I'd just ignore the day time network and build a unique night service, similar to what London does taking in reflection the Metro isn't running.

I'd try and build something like the below instead:


With the green, purple and red lines all being hourly and the orange and pink lines being every 30 minutes with the the purple line splitting at Four Lane Ends (62/63) and the orange line being Lemington to Wallsend Only and Chapel House to Whitley Bay.

With proper marketing and Metro ticketing integration it would cover pretty much everywhere North of the Tyne. The 39/40 are every 15 minutes until 23:30pm then just die, it's definitely a corridor which has potential similar going through Heaton and Jesmond with the students. Jesmond an area which would be unsuccessful during the day but is a different ball game at night.

It would all need to be Nexus led though.

I think there was an idea for a night bus network if they'd gotten all the BSIP funding. I agree with the thought though, build a night bus network in place of roughly where the metro runs in North Tyneside, a 27 in South Tyneside, in addition to the 56 which already runs til 3am, as well as a couple of other services. The only problem is it would need proper funding as an operator isn't going to do it. The night 56 runs ok, but I can see why they withdrew for the last couple of hours between 3-5am because it was very quiet, doesn't mean nobody used it though.

Under 22 day ticket (£3) launching 3rd September

(21 Aug 2023, 11:52 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]I think there was an idea for a night bus network if they'd gotten all the BSIP funding. I agree with the thought though, build a night bus network in place of roughly where the metro runs in North Tyneside, a 27 in South Tyneside, in addition to the 56 which already runs til 3am, as well as a couple of other services. The only problem is it would need proper funding as an operator isn't going to do it. The night 56 runs ok, but I can see why they withdrew for the last couple of hours between 3-5am because it was very quiet, doesn't mean nobody used it though.

Yeah that was my thoughts, but if we want people to switch we arguably need something there somewhere as it's no using buses if you can't get home from work at night. The 27 would be a popular service imo. I think they could be scope for something on the Green Line aswell, serving places like Boldon Collery etc in between which then drops onto the 23 route into Sunderland.

(23 Aug 2023, 11:57 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah that was my thoughts, but if we want people to switch we arguably need something there somewhere as it's no using buses if you can't get home from work at night. The 27 would be a popular service imo. I think they could be scope for something on the Green Line aswell, serving places like Boldon Collery etc in between which then drops onto the 23 route into Sunderland.

I agree, i would also consider other night buses on the 10, X1 and maybe the X30 or X45

(23 Aug 2023, 1:15 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]I agree, i would also consider other night buses on the 10, X1 and maybe the X30 or X45

No I dont think X30 would be a good night bus, the 6 might, maybe the 47

X1 if it did go around Washington a bit more

(23 Aug 2023, 1:15 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]I agree, i would also consider other night buses on the 10, X1 and maybe the X30 or X45

Ngl, if you were doing Consett night buses, it should be a unique route.

Something like:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.96966...?entry=ttu

So they you get Blaydon and Winlaton with it at the same time, there's no point serving express parts as it's just missing people.

Similar with the X1, I'd be tempted to combine it with the 56, so it's every 30 minutes to Concord, then split off on the 4 route down to Houghton. No point for an express service skipping Sheriff Hill at that time of night. I know Concord is a drinking spot, same with Fatfield which it would both serve.

(23 Aug 2023, 5:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Ngl, if you were doing Consett night buses, it should be a unique route.

Something like:

So they you get Blaydon and Winlaton with it at the same time, there's no point serving express parts as it's just missing people.

Similar with the X1, I'd be tempted to combine it with the 56, so it's every 30 minutes to Concord, then split off on the 4 route down to Houghton. No point for an express service skipping Sheriff Hill at that time of night. I know Concord is a drinking spot, same with Fatfield which it would both serve.

The thing is, what I've learned from the 56 night bus, it isn't so much a bus for getting drinkers home. It's a bus for work people more than anything, I'd say a good 70% of the passengers are people going home from work (or even to work). Yes a lot of the workers are from bars, but they're mainly from Newcastle or Sunderland, as well as shift workers from Nissan and it's suppliers, going home to Gateshead, Washington, Sunderland and Newcastle. I think a night bus network needs to realise this to work at all, just look at the N21 after all, apparently that can only survive on a weekend commercially.

(23 Aug 2023, 6:10 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]The thing is, what I've learned from the 56 night bus, it isn't so much a bus for getting drinkers home. It's a bus for work people more than anything, I'd say a good 70% of the passengers are people going home from work (or even to work). Yes a lot of the workers are from bars, but they're mainly from Newcastle or Sunderland, as well as shift workers from Nissan and it's suppliers, going home to Gateshead, Washington, Sunderland and Newcastle. I think a night bus network needs to realise this to work at all, just look at the N21 after all, apparently that can only survive on a weekend commercially.

Yeah that's a fair point to be fair, and not surprised either to be honest. Loads of people who work nights nowadays aswell.

Mind it doesn't help a lot of work places don't have a bus service during the day never mind at night. Places like Team Valley are a nightmare to get to and Amazon at Wynyard and Durham have arguably no bus service at all. Pretty impressive considering the 2 at Darlington and 4/58 at Follingsby are packed to the rafters at shift times. Then they wonder why everyone is in a car, as if you drive to work, why bother paying for bus fares on top to go shopping etc.

I know it's never mentioned much, but I always wonder if some routes would work as loss leaders. ie a bus to a business park makes a loss, but the people on there use other buses at other times which counteracts it who otherwise would be nowhere near the bus in the first place. Similar argument for night buses tbh.

(23 Aug 2023, 6:28 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah that's a fair point to be fair, and not surprised either to be honest. Loads of people who work nights nowadays aswell.

Mind it doesn't help a lot of work places don't have a bus service during the day never mind at night. Places like Team Valley are a nightmare to get to and Amazon at Wynyard and Durham have arguably no bus service at all. Pretty impressive considering the 2 at Darlington and 4/58 at Follingsby are packed to the rafters at shift times. Then they wonder why everyone is in a car, as if you drive to work, why bother paying for bus fares on top to go shopping etc.

I know it's never mentioned much, but I always wonder if some routes would work as loss leaders. ie a bus to a business park makes a loss, but the people on there use other buses at other times which counteracts it who otherwise would be nowhere near the bus in the first place. Similar argument for night buses tbh.

We argued that point when they cut the later 56s between 3 and 5am, yes they were probably losing money but you occasionally had Nissan workers who worked a bit later who we no longer cater for, which is happening again with the 2am from Sunderland to Concord in September. Even if it was a service losing money the rest of them were making so much money I think it just benefits having a true 24 hour service, giving night worker customers reassurance that if they missed their bus there'd still be something in an hour to take them home. I think those type of services need to be funded though, a for profit company won't keep a loss making service on even if it benefits them in the long run.

(23 Aug 2023, 6:56 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]We argued that point when they cut the later 56s between 3 and 5am, yes they were probably losing money but you occasionally had Nissan workers who worked a bit later who we no longer cater for, which is happening again with the 2am from Sunderland to Concord in September. Even if it was a service losing money the rest of them were making so much money I think it just benefits having a true 24 hour service, giving night worker customers reassurance that if they missed their bus there'd still be something in an hour to take them home. I think those type of services need to be funded though, a for profit company won't keep a loss making service on even if it benefits them in the long run.

Yeah agreed, it's a shame really as they were genuinely good services and actually marketed well to give credit for once. The less said for Stagecoach, how on earth they can't get some night buses working in the areas they serve is a complete mystery to me. The West End should be an easy one if they actually bothered to advertise it but similar to Heaton and Jesmond with the 2 universities, heck even work with them and advertise it as the 'safe' way home compared to black cabs etc. I know Northumbria used to have a campaign about it years ago and a partnership with one of the legit taxi companies.

(23 Aug 2023, 7:16 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah agreed, it's a shame really as they were genuinely good services and actually marketed well to give credit for once. The less said for Stagecoach, how on earth they can't get some night buses working in the areas they serve is a complete mystery to me. The West End should be an easy one if they actually bothered to advertise it but similar to Heaton and Jesmond with the 2 universities, heck even work with them and advertise it as the 'safe' way home compared to black cabs etc. I know Northumbria used to have a campaign about it years ago and a partnership with one of the legit taxi companies.

I saw a lot of people saying when they took the 60 off that they had no idea about it untill a week before it got cancelled. 

Really they should have partnerships with workplaces and pubs on the routes

(23 Aug 2023, 7:22 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]I saw a lot of people saying when they took the 60 off that they had no idea about it untill a week before it got cancelled. 

Really they should have partnerships with workplaces and pubs on the routes

Not the worst idea, but they're probably not interested. I do think there should be schemes for save ways for all employees to get home without a car, I know Newcastle City Council were talking about it at one point with bars in the city centre. Not sure if anything came from it though.

It's the sort of things the Late Night Levy should go towards which should be increased, but that's for another thread.

(23 Aug 2023, 6:56 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]We argued that point when they cut the later 56s between 3 and 5am, yes they were probably losing money but you occasionally had Nissan workers who worked a bit later who we no longer cater for, which is happening again with the 2am from Sunderland to Concord in September. Even if it was a service losing money the rest of them were making so much money I think it just benefits having a true 24 hour service, giving night worker customers reassurance that if they missed their bus there'd still be something in an hour to take them home. I think those type of services need to be funded though, a for profit company won't keep a loss making service on even if it benefits them in the long run.

It's probably the same for daytime services too to be honest. 
They built their model on the 71 feeding in to the 21, so when they binned off the 71 after arsing around with it for the umpteenth time, there's clearly going to be an impact on the 21.

You could argue the same point with the 34's and getting rid of some of the early morning runs or a 78 and dropping a late run.

(23 Aug 2023, 6:56 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]We argued that point when they cut the later 56s between 3 and 5am, yes they were probably losing money but you occasionally had Nissan workers who worked a bit later who we no longer cater for, which is happening again with the 2am from Sunderland to Concord in September. Even if it was a service losing money the rest of them were making so much money I think it just benefits having a true 24 hour service, giving night worker customers reassurance that if they missed their bus there'd still be something in an hour to take them home. I think those type of services need to be funded though, a for profit company won't keep a loss making service on even if it benefits them in the long run.

To be fair, operators have been cross-subsidising later loss making trips off the back of very busy daytime services for decades. They just don't get the 'credit' for it as punters don't see that.

Things go south when those later trips then effect the bottom line because daytime passengers are down, and the buffer for running quiet trips is removed.

For what it's worth, that issue would be the same under any model of operation.

The issue with night bus working is straight forward from an operator point of view.

You need enough willing drivers to operate a rota, otherwise dotting night bus shifts around the rota will invariably result in drivers 'failing' and work being uncovered.

Most operators have an 'X' strikes within 'X' time period system before triggering attendance disciplinary, and these duties will be few and far between that failing every single one may not ever trigger.

Given drivers also generally don't like working lates for the most part (bar a very small number), the percentage of the workforce who would reliably work overnight is tiny, even with significant financial incentives, certainly nowhere near the number needed to operate a basic nighttime network. It's simply not the operating model current drivers in this part of the country are used to, so I cannot see any acceptance of it either.

Take that workforce risk into account, higher pay rates needed to make it attractive, 24-hour engineering and supervision required, the actual cost per bus is absolutely massive compared to daytime operation and will nowhere near be viable.

Simply for that basis, operators tend to see them as very high risk and the immediate reward simply isn't high enough to be worth it.

I do think an initial trial night bus covering the Coast Road on a Friday & Saturday evening (backed by TNE/NECA, Arriva & GNE) would work though using 1x bus (a StreetLite). GNE are already losing money on the last full 1 ex Whitley Bay to MetroCentre with all the dead running back to Percy Main. An N308 would give the service opportunity to carry revenue back towards the Coast, plus the fact that the STACK in Whitley Bay would also minimise losses towards Newcastle to pick up the later journey.

Newcastle Newgate Street - The Gate: 00:25
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue: 01:04

Whitley Bay - The Avenue (For STACK): 01:10
Newcastle - St Mary's Place: 01:44

Newcastle Newgate Street - The Gate: 01:55
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue: 02:34

Newcastle stops:
* Newgate Street - The Gate
* Grainger Street - McDonalds
* Market Street West
* Pilgrim Street
* John Dobson Street - Near City Hall

Then same route as 308 but via High Farm & Battle Hill Drive, and omitting Silverlink slip road

(24 Aug 2023, 5:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I do think an initial trial night bus covering the Coast Road on a Friday & Saturday evening (backed by TNE/NECA, Arriva & GNE) would work though using 1x bus (a StreetLite). GNE are already losing money on the last full 1 ex Whitley Bay to MetroCentre with all the dead running back to Percy Main. An N308 would give the service opportunity to carry revenue back towards the Coast, plus the fact that the STACK in Whitley Bay would also minimise losses towards Newcastle to pick up the later journey.

Newcastle Newgate Street - The Gate: 00:25
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue: 01:04

Whitley Bay - The Avenue (For STACK): 01:10
Newcastle - St Mary's Place: 01:44

Newcastle Newgate Street - The Gate: 01:55
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue: 02:34

Newcastle stops:
* Newgate Street - The Gate
* Grainger Street - McDonalds
* Market Street West
* Pilgrim Street
* John Dobson Street - Near City Hall

Then same route as 308 but via High Farm & Battle Hill Drive, and omitting Silverlink slip road

I don’t know why you think the Stack opening later will have such a positive effect on passenger numbers,  plenty of entertainment venues are open late in Newcastle City centre, but that’s never sustained night buses.

(24 Aug 2023, 5:42 pm)Bazza wrote [ -> ]I don’t know why you think the Stack opening later will have such a positive effect on passenger numbers,  plenty of entertainment venues are open late in Newcastle City centre, but that’s never sustained night buses.

Well the STACK is only going to attract people to Whitley Bay who might fancy an alternative to the City Centre. If TNE/NTCA GNE and Arriva coordinate the launch of a night service around when that opens, word will get around.

Logistically other than maybe keeping Percy Main open during the night (not that it would make much difference with the current last run-in times and first run out times), the vehicle already being at the MetroCentre is in prime position to take the boards on is a huge bonus.

(24 Aug 2023, 5:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I do think an initial trial night bus covering the Coast Road on a Friday & Saturday evening (backed by TNE/NECA, Arriva & GNE) would work though using 1x bus (a StreetLite). GNE are already losing money on the last full 1 ex Whitley Bay to MetroCentre with all the dead running back to Percy Main. An N308 would give the service opportunity to carry revenue back towards the Coast, plus the fact that the STACK in Whitley Bay would also minimise losses towards Newcastle to pick up the later journey.

Newcastle Newgate Street - The Gate: 00:25
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue: 01:04

Whitley Bay - The Avenue (For STACK): 01:10
Newcastle - St Mary's Place: 01:44

Newcastle Newgate Street - The Gate: 01:55
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue: 02:34

Newcastle stops:
* Newgate Street - The Gate
* Grainger Street - McDonalds
* Market Street West
* Pilgrim Street
* John Dobson Street - Near City Hall

Then same route as 308 but via High Farm & Battle Hill Drive, and omitting Silverlink slip road

You need more than just an entertainment venue to sustain a night bus. Like I've said, the main thing keeping the 56 running is Nissan/supplier employees as well as Newcastle and Sunderland's bar staff, they're regulars that use them nearly every night, everyone else is just a chance that they'll actually use a bus. I do think an hourly night bus throughout the metro network could work, but it couldn't survive commercially, it would need to be funded from elsewhere.

Today I experienced a blizzare but frustrating event.

All buses was running to delays when checked the bus I was on (GNE) was 26min late and pulled over at a bus stop and chucked all his passengers off and told them his bus is coming off service and to get the bus behind which was following along Battlehill and High Farm.

Before disembarking at a bus stop with no connecting bus behind I asked about what would happen if I was unable to board he assured me I could... I asked again if I cannot get on the bus can I use the bus after ... His response was I don't know probably... - I stopped enabling no passenger to get off to to define probably as it's 50 50 I need a dedicated wheelchair space to continue my journey

Luckily the next bus was accomodating but overloaded but an interesting find was

That some dedicated wheelchair spaces are bigger than others on coast and cobalt buses ....

Is this a common for buses late buses to chuck passengers off to regulate them back on route ..

This previous 311 service may of been beneficial to assist by picking passengers up for the services from Haymarket and advising 309 passengers to board this service your bus will be at Chillingham road to continue your journey after all it's a 5 min corridor so this would be achievable

(28 Aug 2023, 10:52 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]Today  I experienced a blizzare but frustrating event.

All buses was running to delays when checked the bus I was on (GNE) was 26min late and pulled over at a bus stop and chucked all his passengers off and told them his bus is coming off service and to get the bus behind which was following along Battlehill and High Farm.

Before disembarking  at a bus stop with no connecting bus behind I asked about what would happen if I was unable to board he assured me I could... I asked again if I cannot get on the bus can I use the bus after ... His response was I don't know probably... - I stopped enabling no passenger to get off to to define probably as it's 50 50 I need a dedicated wheelchair space to continue my journey

Luckily the next bus was accomodating but overloaded but an interesting find was

That some dedicated wheelchair spaces are bigger than others on coast and cobalt buses ....

Is this a common for buses late buses to chuck passengers off to regulate them back on route ..

This previous 311 service may of been beneficial to assist by picking passengers up for the services from Haymarket and advising 309 passengers to board this service your bus will be at Chillingham road to continue your journey after all it's a 5 min corridor so this would be achievable

When the 311 ran on a Sunday, the 310 still experienced issues due to the interworking patterns with service 309 at the time. Thankfully now any issues with the 309 are confined to the 309 on a Sunday with the 307 being standalone. So the 307 worst case can pick up passengers to allow them to change to a regulated 309 further downroute.

Far cry from the days of Arriva barely being able to keep to time with a PVR of 4x on the 308 on Sundays. Something needs done for both routes as the traffic is only going to get worse down the Coast. But it's not something that warrants extra permanent resource.

Maybe on Sundays & Bank Holidays when a match day or when there's expected hot weather....Arriva & GNE work as part of the agreement to provide a spare bus & driver to pick up severe late running.

Arriva picks anything up at the Blyth end of the route and likewise, GNE via Riverside Depot fill in at the Newcastle end of the route.

(29 Aug 2023, 6:37 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]When the 311 ran on a Sunday, the 310 still experienced issues due to the interworking patterns with service 309 at the time. Thankfully now any issues with the 309 are confined to the 309 on a Sunday with the 307 being standalone. So the 307 worst case can pick up passengers to allow them to change to a regulated 309 further downroute.

Far cry from the days of Arriva barely being able to keep to time with a PVR of 4x on the 308 on Sundays. Something needs done for both routes as the traffic is only going to get worse down the Coast. But it's not something that warrants extra permanent resource.

Maybe on Sundays & Bank Holidays when a match day or when there's expected hot weather....Arriva & GNE work as part of the agreement to provide a spare bus & driver to pick up severe late running.

Arriva picks anything up at the Blyth end of the route and likewise, GNE via Riverside Depot fill in at the Newcastle end of the route.

Hello is that Fred asks the nasty arriva planner??  The itv weather says its going to be boiling hot on Sunday so can i pencil you in for a day running an extra 308??  

Comes to Sunday and fred has to find his wellies and raincoat to travel to work!!!

Fred is also told to keep the week of the 24th september free as even though he is on annual leave and going to Miami for 2 weeks he needs to be available in case Newcastle get a home tie in the Carabo Cup/Champions league that week and may be needed for a n extra bus just before and just after the match

(29 Aug 2023, 8:08 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Hello is that Fred asks the nasty arriva planner??  The itv weather says its going to be boiling hot on Sunday so can i pencil you in for a day running an extra 308??  

Comes to Sunday and fred has to find his wellies and raincoat to travel to work!!!

Fred is also told to keep the week of the 24th september free as even though he is on annual leave and going to Miami for 2 weeks he needs to be available in case Newcastle get a home tie in the Carabo Cup/Champions league that week and may be needed for a n extra bus just before and just after the match

Fred doesn't mind as he is a Blyth Spartans fan

Just a thought after seeing the post about the delayed open topper 309 the other day. But currently during the evenings.......

- 306 - 33 minutes sitting doing sweet FA in Tynemouth.

- 307 - extra PVR due to 56 minute gap in North Shields (okay, less of an issue with Percy Main a short distance away)

- Poor coordination between the 308 & 309 from Haymarket.

- 5 minutes layover at Haymarket can be tight at times.

So with the 351 brought into the Qualifying Agreement (between Newcastle and Wiltshire Drive) and the 307/309 interworking pattern PVR reduced by 1x, would a 10 minute combined frequency not work using the below as an example and taking the 351 into account too?

306/308
- 308 ex Newcastle 19:17 > arr Blyth 20:14
- 308 ex Blyth 20:32 > arr Newcastle 21:28
- 306 ex Newcastle 21:37 > arr Tynemouth 22:18
- 306 ex Tynemouth 22:27 > arr Newcastle 23:08

307/309
- 307 ex Newcastle 19:07 > arr North Shields 19:49
- 307 ex North Shields 19:51 > arr Newcastle 20:38
- 309 ex Newcastle 20:47 > arr Blyth 21:49
- 309 ex Blyth 21:53 > arr Newcastle 22:58

307 (to Hadrian Park only)
- 307 ex Newcastle 19:27 > arr Hadrian Park 19:50
- 307 ex Hadrian Park 19:51 > arr Newcastle 20:18

351 - Does anti-clockwise loop of Holystone Park and Holystone Whitley Road during evenings instead
- 351 ex Newcastle 20:57 > arr Holystone Park 21:21
- 351 ex Holystone Park 21:21 > arr Newcastle 21:48

Departures from Haymarket would be.......
- 307 North Shields - xx:07
- 308 Blyth - xx:17
- 307 Hadrian Park xx:27
- 306 Tynemouth xx:37
- 309 Blyth xx:47
- 351 Holystone Park xx:57 - Evening journeys depart from Stand M at Haymarket

Last journeys would be

306 ex Newcastle
- 22:37 - Tynemouth
- 23:17 - Tynemouth

306 ex Tynemouth
- 22:27 - Newcastle
- 23:27 - Coast Road / Selby Gardens

307 ex Newcastle
- 22:27 - Hadrian Park
- 23:07 - North Shields
- 23:47 - Norham Road / Stannington Road

307 ex North Shields
- 22:51 - Newcastle
- 23:51 - Hadrian Park

307 ex Hadrian Park (shorts)
- 21:51 - Newcastle

308 ex Newcastle
- 22:17 - Blyth
- 23:32 - Blyth

308 ex Blyth
- 21:32 - Newcastle
- 22:31 - Newcastle
- 23:16 - Lynn Road / Billy Mill

309 ex Newcastle
- 22:47 - Blyth

309 ex Blyth
- 22:53 - New York

351 ex Newcastle
- 22:57 - Holystone Park (completes anti-clockwise loop to serve Holystone Whitley Road too)

351 ex Holystone Park
- 22:21 - Newcastle

(10 Sep 2023, 12:47 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Just a thought after seeing the post about the delayed open topper 309 the other day. But currently during the evenings.......

- 306 - 33 minutes sitting doing sweet FA in Tynemouth.

- 307 - extra PVR due to 56 minute gap in North Shields (okay, less of an issue with Percy Main a short distance away)

- Poor coordination between the 308 & 309 from Haymarket.

- 5 minutes layover at Haymarket can be tight at times.

So with the 351 brought into the Qualifying Agreement (between Newcastle and Wiltshire Drive) and the 307/309 interworking pattern PVR reduced by 1x, would a 10 minute combined frequency not work using the below as an example and taking the 351 into account too?

306/308
- 308 ex Newcastle 19:17 > arr Blyth 20:14
- 308 ex Blyth 20:32 > arr Newcastle 21:28
- 306 ex Newcastle 21:37 > arr Tynemouth 22:18
- 306 ex Tynemouth 22:27 > arr Newcastle 23:08

307/309
- 307 ex Newcastle 19:07 > arr North Shields 19:49
- 307 ex North Shields 19:51 > arr Newcastle 20:38
- 309 ex Newcastle 20:47 > arr Blyth 21:49
- 309 ex Blyth 21:53 > arr Newcastle 22:58

307 (to Hadrian Park only)
- 307 ex Newcastle 19:27 > arr Hadrian Park 19:50
- 307 ex Hadrian Park 19:51 > arr Newcastle 20:18

351 - Does anti-clockwise loop of Holystone Park and Holystone Whitley Road during evenings instead
- 351 ex Newcastle 20:57 > arr Holystone Park 21:21
- 351 ex Holystone Park 21:21 > arr Newcastle 21:48

Departures from Haymarket would be.......
- 307 North Shields - xx:07
- 308 Blyth - xx:17
- 307 Hadrian Park xx:27
- 306 Tynemouth xx:37
- 309 Blyth xx:47
- 351 Holystone Park xx:57 - Evening journeys depart from Stand M at Haymarket

Last journeys would be

306 ex Newcastle
- 22:37 - Tynemouth
- 23:17 - Tynemouth

306 ex Tynemouth
- 22:27 - Newcastle
- 23:27 - Coast Road / Selby Gardens

307 ex Newcastle
- 22:27 - Hadrian Park
- 23:07 - North Shields
- 23:47 - Norham Road / Stannington Road

307 ex North Shields
- 22:51 - Newcastle
- 23:51 - Hadrian Park

307 ex Hadrian Park (shorts)
- 21:51 - Newcastle

308 ex Newcastle
- 22:17 - Blyth
- 23:32 - Blyth

308 ex Blyth
- 21:32 - Newcastle
- 22:31 - Newcastle
- 23:16 - Lynn Road / Billy Mill

309 ex Newcastle
- 22:47 - Blyth

309 ex Blyth
- 22:53 - New York

351 ex Newcastle
- 22:57 - Holystone Park (completes anti-clockwise loop to serve Holystone Whitley Road too)

351 ex Holystone Park
- 22:21 - Newcastle

Unlikely to happen, given the QA is voluntary and Arriva wouldn't sign up to all of the multi ticket acceptance and co-ordination if the balance of the operation isn't broadly equal.

The suggestion of bringing the 351 into it means Go-Ahead would have a higher majority of the operating milage and therefore no longer broadly equal.

(10 Sep 2023, 12:47 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Just a thought after seeing the post about the delayed open topper 309 the other day. But currently during the evenings.......

- 306 - 33 minutes sitting doing sweet FA in Tynemouth.

- 307 - extra PVR due to 56 minute gap in North Shields (okay, less of an issue with Percy Main a short distance away)

- Poor coordination between the 308 & 309 from Haymarket.

- 5 minutes layover at Haymarket can be tight at times.

So with the 351 brought into the Qualifying Agreement (between Newcastle and Wiltshire Drive) and the 307/309 interworking pattern PVR reduced by 1x, would a 10 minute combined frequency not work using the below as an example and taking the 351 into account too?

306/308
- 308 ex Newcastle 19:17 > arr Blyth 20:14
- 308 ex Blyth 20:32 > arr Newcastle 21:28
- 306 ex Newcastle 21:37 > arr Tynemouth 22:18
- 306 ex Tynemouth 22:27 > arr Newcastle 23:08

307/309
- 307 ex Newcastle 19:07 > arr North Shields 19:49
- 307 ex North Shields 19:51 > arr Newcastle 20:38
- 309 ex Newcastle 20:47 > arr Blyth 21:49
- 309 ex Blyth 21:53 > arr Newcastle 22:58

307 (to Hadrian Park only)
- 307 ex Newcastle 19:27 > arr Hadrian Park 19:50
- 307 ex Hadrian Park 19:51 > arr Newcastle 20:18

351 - Does anti-clockwise loop of Holystone Park and Holystone Whitley Road during evenings instead
- 351 ex Newcastle 20:57 > arr Holystone Park 21:21
- 351 ex Holystone Park 21:21 > arr Newcastle 21:48

Departures from Haymarket would be.......
- 307 North Shields - xx:07
- 308 Blyth - xx:17
- 307 Hadrian Park xx:27
- 306 Tynemouth xx:37
- 309 Blyth xx:47
- 351 Holystone Park xx:57 - Evening journeys depart from Stand M at Haymarket

Last journeys would be

306 ex Newcastle
- 22:37 - Tynemouth
- 23:17 - Tynemouth

306 ex Tynemouth
- 22:27 - Newcastle
- 23:27 - Coast Road / Selby Gardens

307 ex Newcastle
- 22:27 - Hadrian Park
- 23:07 - North Shields
- 23:47 - Norham Road / Stannington Road

307 ex North Shields
- 22:51 - Newcastle
- 23:51 - Hadrian Park

307 ex Hadrian Park (shorts)
- 21:51 - Newcastle

308 ex Newcastle
- 22:17 - Blyth
- 23:32 - Blyth

308 ex Blyth
- 21:32 - Newcastle
- 22:31 - Newcastle
- 23:16 - Lynn Road / Billy Mill

309 ex Newcastle
- 22:47 - Blyth

309 ex Blyth
- 22:53 - New York

351 ex Newcastle
- 22:57 - Holystone Park (completes anti-clockwise loop to serve Holystone Whitley Road too)

351 ex Holystone Park
- 22:21 - Newcastle

The 351 badly needs to run the full route, there's massive housing estates without an evening bus service at all currently and shouldn't be part of the Coast Road network.

imo the North Tyneside / SE Northumberland subsidised evening service should be the following:

1: Whitley Bay to wherever (Hourly)
19: North Shields to Cramlington (Hourly)
37: Cramlington to West End (Hourly)
41: Wallsend to Hadrian Park (Hourly)
57A: Whitley Bay to Bedlington (Hourly)
306: Extended to Whitley Bay (Hourly)
317: Whitley Bay to Wallsend (Hourly)
342: Killingworth to Wallsend (Hourly)
351: Whitley Bay to Newcastle (Hourly)
353: North Shields to Cramlington (Hourly)
359: Whitley Bay to Killingworth (Hourly)

351 -> 359 -> 342 -> 41 all interworking together.
1 / 306 - Interworking to provide 2 BPH between North Shields and Whitley Bay or thereabouts.

Everything else withdrawn or not replaced including the 54 (not a mistake). It would mean that everywhere would have a bus service 7 days a week, from early to late. There's absolutely no need for the 19 and 317 to be both 2 BPH as now either.

(10 Sep 2023, 11:01 am)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Unlikely to happen, given the QA is voluntary and Arriva wouldn't sign up to all of the multi ticket acceptance and co-ordination if the balance of the operation isn't broadly equal.

The suggestion of bringing the 351 into it means Go-Ahead would have a higher majority of the operating milage and therefore no longer broadly equal.

But if anything.....the 351 thrown in and coordinated along with an additional short 307 trip would sort the 33 minute layover situation out for Arriva's evening 306 journeys and although less impactful....GNE's 56  minute gap on the evening 307's.

Wouldnt it be better to do something with the 335 and interwork that with the 41 infact now the 335 only go's as far as Hadrian Park you could can it altogether
335 Killingworth- Hadrian Park via Wallsend as now to Station Road then Wiltshire Drive/Wiltshire Gardens, West Street High Street West,Wallsend Interchange, Station Road, Mullen Road, Battle Hill Drive, Hadrian Park (The Bush), return same as Wallsend-Hadrian Park to Wallsend Interchange, then via Station Road (The Forum), Elton Street West, West Street, then the same route as Killingworth- Wallsend
342 would no longer serve West Street and High Street West, instead serving Station Road, The Forum, Wallsend Interchange, swapping with the 41/335