North East Buses

Just been made aware of this company looking to set up in Northumberland.

Not sure who the owners are or if this is a subsidary of a 'big boy'.

Interesting set of vehicles too.

Good luck to them!

Www.spiritbuses.co.uk

I believe in the last set of VOSA activity, Arriva had cancelled the registration for the 144 service between Morpeth and Rothbury/Thropton. Look like we know who's taking it over. If they are looking to provide better transport provision in the Coquetdale area then good luck to them I say. I hope they succeed where others have failed.

Can't see an operator's licence application on VOSA, but it's early days yet...

... although I did find an O-licence for 'Spirit of the North Tours' of New Herrington, Houghton-le-Spring... wonder if they'd be interested in a Fencehouses-Newcastle service...???

(15 Jul 2013, 8:13 am)AdamY wrote [ -> ]I believe in the last set of VOSA activity, Arriva had cancelled the registration for the 144 service between Morpeth and Rothbury/Thropton. Look like we know who's taking it over. If they are looking to provide better transport provision in the Coquetdale area then good luck to them I say. I hope they succeed where others have failed.

No cancellation for the 14 (registration still gives it's old number) just a timetable change.

A little more information about Spirit Buses, provided by the Northumberland Gazette (Link:
http://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/n...-1-5843411)

Maybe the changes to the 14 reflect the challenge posed by this venture.

New bus plans in pipeline



Published on 13/07/2013 06:00

Plans to set up a new bus company and revive former routes are in the offing.

Spirit Buses, headed by Rothbury man Steve Hurst, is looking to set up a new service to give people better access to and from Rothbury and Coquetdale.

The 27-year-old wants to create a series of new routes to give locals and visitors the chance to get out and about more easily and to help businesses.

At the moment, three separate routes are suggested between Thropton and Alnwick, Rothbury and Alwinton and Thropton and Morpeth.

Steve said: “We have had a fair bit of support and interest from local bodies such as Northumberland County Council, Northumberland National Park, Cragside and Alnwick Tourist Information Centre to bring visitors into the valley and from residents of Rothbury and Coquetdale in search of new links to facilities and job opportunities in Alnwick.

“We do, however, need to get figures for funding purposes and information on whethervarious portions of the routes will be viable.”

Spirit Buses is hoping that by setting up a service it will increase trade in Rothbury and the Coquet Valley and help boost tourism.

The new services will, wherever possible, be designed to integrate with services provided by other transport operators and other interested groups.

A questionnaire has been printed and is now being made available so that the group can evaluate a need for the buses to be put on.

Steve said: “I would like as many people as possible to fill in the questionnaires and send them back. The more evidence we have for a need for the services, the better the chance we have of getting them.

The survey can be found at Shepherds Walks TIC Office, Rothbury, Tully’s of Rothbury, Rose and Thistle Public House, Alwinton, Alnwick Tourist Information Centre, David Carr’s Shop, Longframlington and Sandwiches @ Millars Shop, Longhorsley from Monday.

It can also be filled in online at www.spiritbuses.co.uk

Steve has already looked into funding and has been in talks with the county council.

Lionheart Radio have also interviewed Steve Hurst regarding the launch of Spirit Buses. The interview is online and available through the link on their website: http://www.lionheartradio.com/interviews.shtml

(15 Jul 2013, 8:35 am)eezypeazy wrote [ -> ]Can't see an operator's licence application on VOSA, but it's early days yet...

... although I did find an O-licence for 'Spirit of the North Tours' of New Herrington, Houghton-le-Spring... wonder if they'd be interested in a Fencehouses-Newcastle service...???

Get onto it eezypeazy! Get the residents, local councillors and Bridget Phillipson (http://www.thebigbuscampaign.co.uk/) on the case and you might just crack it!

The more I read into this, the more it begins to hit home that this is a local campaign rather than a bus company wishing to trial new services in the area.

Although the website is good and certainly gives the impression that it's professional outfit, in reality it's nothing more than a detailed version of the service suggestion thread we have here. Granted, he seems to have done a good job of generating local publicity. But if, for say, any of us here took the time to expand upon any of the proposals put forth in the suggestions thread; went out on the streets and shops distributing leaflets and questionnaires; and created a website while utilising social media as means of making our ideas more visible; then we too would probably find ourselves in a similar position to this.

I can't find any evidence of a coach company operating in the Rothbury area. There is a 'Rothbury Motors' (http://rothburymotors.co.uk/index.php ), but it's based in Alnwick not Rothbury. Although I may be wrong, I don't see any affiliation between the two. The number for 'Spirit Buses' is a mobile number, while Rothbury Motors has a landline (like every business should). The fleet is uninteresting as it doesn't exist. It's all speculative and would need a great deal of investment to get off the ground.

Still, I may be proven wrong and I hope I am. Raising awareness of public transport deficiencies, either in Coquetdale or in Fencehouses (Just had to get that in there for Andreos ), is always a good cause and I wish Hurst the very best of luck. However, his questionnaires may well establish that there is a need further transport links in the Rothbury area - that's the easy part. Providing it, that's where it will prove to more tricky.

If I lived in Fencehouses I wouldn't be too happy with the service, but once that village is sorted, I can use another one as an example of a community left to the mercy of a faceless plc

I think your right about this Spirit Coaches. It doesn't look as though he has a fleet to speak of, hence giving passengers the choice of a coach or low floor single decker.
Wonder if he even has the CPC required for the operators licence or if he is going to use someone else?

It does seem a great idea, but hoping after the publicity he is getting, that it doesn't just peter out.
Speaking of possible route suggestions, is it worth him having a direct service to Newcastle?

Fingers crossed it works out though!

Edit: Just to pick up on the CPC thing, if he hasn't got his o licence and is putting himself through the CPC to save costs (opposed to hiring a transport manager), he will either need to sit the upcoming September exams or wait until December. Either way, there is normally a 2 month turn around for certificates/confirmation of a pass of the modules.
If that is the case and he is getting his own CPC, the earliest he could apply for his o licence, would be late November and that would be on condition of him passing each of the modules in early September.

Hmmm... I like maths, so let’s do some sums...

This looks to me like it could be a one-bus operation. Let’s say the bus does a trip from Thropton to Alnmouth for early commuters and back to Thropton; then another to Alnwick from Thropton just after 9am (when the pensioners’ passes have kicked in); then from Alnwick back to Thropton, where it continues on its loop into upper Coquetdale (dropping off tourists and collecting pensioners) and back to Rothbury. Then, three hours later, it does the whole thing in reverse (no pun intended!) (I know, that’s just four trips to Alnwick and Spirit have promised five, but bear with me for the purposes of this illustration). Then on Fridays and Saturdays the bus does an evening trip into Morpeth, and two round trips to Morpeth Sundays and Bank Holidays (but, for simplicity, let’s exclude Bank Holidays for the moment). By my reckoning, the bus would be on the road for ten hours a day, six days a week, plus the Sunday and weekend evening round trips; let’s call it 70 hours a week in total.

For simplicity, let’s say that it costs about £30 an hour to run a bus, split (roughly) one-third wages, one-third fuel, and one-third everything else (tyres, insurance, paying a loan for the bus back to the bank and saving up to eventually replace it). The bus needs to earn £2,100 per week to break even (£109K pa). (Let's assume the company owner does half the driving and he employs another driver and contracts out maintenance - so 'profit' = wages!).

Next, let’s assume that about half the passengers will be pensioners using passes, and that the county council reimburses Spirit at 50% of the average fare. ‘Half of a half’ means that pensioners must contribute one quarter of the revenue; fare-payers the rest. What must the average fare be and what will be a break even load?

My answer: Let’s say the average fare is £5. For each fare payer paying a fiver, each pensioner generates £2.50; so the ‘real’ average revenue per passenger is (£5 + £2.50)/2 = £3.75. So, to break even, the bus must carry eight passengers an hour, every hour. If the average fare is less, the loadings must be more.

So, the real question is: are there eight people who wish to commute regularly between Rothbury and Alnwick by bus for £50 a week? Are there eight pensioners who wish to travel to and from Rothbury every day? Are there eight tourists a day waiting to be taken from Alnwick to Rothbury for a tenner return?

If, as Spirit suggests, people are encouraged to use other services to connect, then I presume they’ll use Explorer or similar tickets – but the revenue split will result in lower revenue, unless more passengers are attracted.

I’m sorry, but if there was a viable bus load of passengers requiring these services, I’m fairly certain that a service would be being provided already (by either a large or small operator). If there was a small number of passengers wanting a bus, the County Council would have been under pressure to provide support for one. For numbers of up to four people, a shared taxi probably provides a better service.

Much as I Iike Rothbury and its environs (and who wouldn’t?), this just doesn’t look viable to me.

Yeah, if you're right and he is putting himself through his CPC, maintaining continuous interest in this campaign until November will be a difficult challenge. Over a prolonged period, unless there are indications that some amount of progress is being achieved, campaigns such as this tend to fizzle out. He's managed to stir up local interest, great. But unless he can act immediately on his promises if given the opportunity (presuming that locals and stakeholders are prepared to back this endeavor 100%) then this will slowly begin to unravel I'm afraid. Locals may be prepared to back this and fill in questionnaires a few times over, but businesses and local authorities will be less inclined to do so. Despite his best intentions they will see this for what it is: a waste of time, a pipe-dream, or something that is not going to happen. If that's the case then why, as a business, would you want to associate yourself with this cause?

Another thing to add into the equation is timing (presuming the CPC thing is true). Do visitors come to Coquetdale in their droves during the winter months? - I don't know the answer but I'm guessing probably not. So, if this service is being marketed at tourists, it's not going to attract that many during the winter. In the past, I have read reports that local bus services have been unable to serve Rothbury due to adverse weather conditions. So, once again, I'm guessing that locals will be conditioned to use personal rather than public transport during the winter. The two types of user the service is hoping to attract (local and tourist) are unlikely to use the service if it was launched in November.

But, of course, this is all speculative. He might have a CPC, a operators licence, a transport manager, and a fleet of buses stashed wherever Raoul Moat was hiding. I hope this is all sorted and he's raring to go, but if not....well....

But, according to his twitter feed, he's got the uniforms sorted...

Our first batch of company shirts ordered via #SpottyDogDesigns in #Morpeth What do you think..? pic.twitter.com/n5GCq8Wuc6

Take from that what you will.

Just had a thought (on phone so can't really check) has the company been registered at Companies House?

If it has, then we can assume he is well on his way, with the O licence following soon - if it hasn't appeared on the Companies House website....

Desperate for this to come off and a new operator make a go of things, so hoping this is much more than the guy developing a business plan or business case.

(16 Jul 2013, 2:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Just had a thought (on phone so can't really check) has the company been registered at Companies House?

If it has, then we can assume he is well on his way, with the O licence following soon - if it hasn't appeared on the Companies House website....

Desperate for this to come off and a new operator make a go of things, so hoping this is much more than the guy developing a business plan or business case.

Doesn't appear so. Sadly, I reckon if it does take off, Arriva will come in, destroy it and bugger off again

It's a glorified PR project at the moment, similar to those 'virtual' airlines that Teens set up across the world that fool a few folk

haha, yeah. Heard about those 'virtual' airlines! Virtual buses running around Coquetdale soon.

Just looking at the guys facebook and twitter page and it appears the questionaire will assist in getting the funding he needs to procede.
Basically, if he can show the bank manager that there is enough interest, he will get the loan to start buying the fleet to go with his uniforms.

When would be the best time to start the business up?
In the winter, so niggles are ironed out before the tourists start arriving? Then there is the potential for making a loss for a significant period.
In the spring, ready for tourists and hopefully build up enough of a kitty to see the winter out?

It also looks as though he is going for the low-floor single deckers. Ensign will be able to sort him out (they currently have both options in stock...)

Still hoping this comes off!
Wonder if he joins NEBOA?

(16 Jul 2013, 10:13 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]haha, yeah. Heard about those 'virtual' airlines! Virtual buses running around Coquetdale soon.

Just looking at the guys facebook and twitter page and it appears the questionaire will assist in getting the funding he needs to procede.
Basically, if he can show the bank manager that there is enough interest, he will get the loan to start buying the fleet to go with his uniforms.

When would be the best time to start the business up?
In the winter, so niggles are ironed out before the tourists start arriving? Then there is the potential for making a loss for a significant period.
In the spring, ready for tourists and hopefully build up enough of a kitty to see the winter out?

It also looks as though he is going for the low-floor single deckers. Ensign will be able to sort him out (they currently have both options in stock...)

Still hoping this comes off!
Wonder if he joins NEBOA?

The questionnaire will mean diddly-squat to a bank manager I'm afraid. It's a useful PR tool but it does nothing to prove the case for funding. All it really does is answer three basic questions: Do you think the service is a good idea?; Would you use the service if it was introduced?; And how (and when) would you use the service?

Now, I'm going to pretend that I live in Rothbury and answer each of the three questions.

1) Do you think the service is a good idea?

Yes, I think the service is a smashing idea. Rothbury has been deprived of a decent bus service for years and any improvement is welcome. I believe elderly people would use the service to get out and about more; and tourists would use the service to visit the Upper Coquetdale area during the summer months.

2) Would you use the service if it was introduced?

Maybe. I mean, I have my own car which I use to get to/from work everyday, but I might use the service at some point if circumstances permitted.

3) And how (and when) would you use the service?

Erm....

I think I've probably provided the average participant response (in my mind at least - feel free to argue otherwise). So, to summarise. Most participants will think the service is a good idea (for what its worth, it is!); most participants might use the service but probably won't; and no-one will be able to say for definite how they would use the service.

This doesn't bode well for financial consideration as a questionnaire is no substitute for a sound business plan. The bank manager will probably ask about the current level of service provided by Arriva, trying to ascertain the current level of demand for the area. A discussion will take place about costs, and, using eezypeazy's estimations as a guide, the bank manager will probably conclude that it's not in the bank's interest to finance this venture as it is too much of a risk.

I really hate to be negative about the whole thing as I hope something comes of this. But, to me, all the evidence points towards this being little more than fantasy bus booking that has gotten a little too serious somewhere along the way.

I probably wasn't clear enough - if he can get the questionaires completed and prove there is an interest in the services, it will aid his application for a loan.
He has even said as much himself about funding being reliant on the questionaires.

As you say, he needs to produce evidence and costings, predicted revenue too - which will hopefully add weight to the argument.

I imagine he will need to be creative with his pricing policy to attract customers as the £50 per week commuter costs in addition to any additional costs to get to points beyond the Spirit Bus network, is quite steep. It's almost 'GNEesque'!

As I've said, I like maths...

Agreed the £50 quid a week is too GNE-esque, but reduce the price and you've got to increase the loads to break even. £40 quid and you need ten passengers, not eight... and so on.

If it were me, and I was determined to reintroduce services to the area, I'd probably just start off by purchasing an old minibus and see how things go before everything has to be DDA compliant by 2016.

You can pick up one up for around £2,000 [see below]. Obviously, they're going to be hammered. But let's say that, for arguments sake, that VOSA have approved these vehicles for use and the general consensus of opinion, after consulting a local fitter, is that they have a couple of years left in them. If you buy, say, three for £6,000 (although you could probably knock the price down to £5,000), this will effectively improve reliability as, when bus one goes, you can simply scrap it (or sell it on) and move onto the next vehicle. This way, in theory at least, the service can be introduced over a trial period with relatively low capital investment excluding operating costs. From there, the impact of the service can be assessed through loadings producing a clearer picture of how the service might perform long term through projections and forecasts.

Of course, what I've written above is rather simplistic and rough. I haven't taken into account the cost of hiring land for a depot or office facilities. I don't know how much it costs to register a service or have VOSA come out to inspect your fleet and give it the all clear. But what I've outlined, if enacted, should give some indication of how the service might perform, providing some sort of financial case. Questionnaires might provide some indication of demand for the service, but it gives no indication of whether people will use it.

Mercedes Benz 709D - £2,000

Fiat Ducato 2005 Minibus - £10,000

If the feasibility study shows an interest in this proposed service it looks like an opportunity for Howard Snaith now that he has expanded in to the Alnwick area. Acording to information on VOSA Snaith's also have a agreement to use Rothbury Mart.
The margins in this area might not appeal to Arriva but I'm sure that Snaith's and Travelsure are watching this with great interest.

I get what your saying about the mini-bus, but the would that fit into his offer of offering storage for bikes, hiking equipement, freight etc.
In his forecasts, he has obviously worked in the extra revenue from freight and offering something different to a normal service with the storage facilities.

Haven't got a clue what sort of freight he can carry - it may even affect his operating licence (he will possibly need the freight CPC as well as the Passenger one) if he is talking anything above a standard parcel here and there.
Obviously sticking a couple of sheep into the hold is a no-no, however desperate Farmer Giles is to get them to the market!

(17 Jul 2013, 11:54 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I get what your saying about the mini-bus, but the would that fit into his offer of offering storage for bikes, hiking equipement, freight etc.
In his forecasts, he has obviously worked in the extra revenue from freight and offering something different to a normal service with the storage facilities.

I don't think he has though. I think he's made a lot of assumptions along the lines of 'If I introduce a service which offers storage for hiking equipment and bikes, that's bound to generate more revenue as I'm offering something different'. But where is the proof?

The questionnaire doesn't touch upon it, and, even if it did, where are the hikers and bikers coming from? I'm presuming they're coming from elsewhere and not, specifically, from Upper Coquetdale. Therefore, distributing a revised questionnaire (containing questions about storage) throughout the local area is going to be ineffective when trying to gauge true demand for this service. However, it would be more effective if distributed among cycling/hiking groups and organisations (both regional and national) as these are targeted users of the service.

I just get the impression that he's trying to start off too big. I applaud his ambition but I think it will all end in tears. If he were to start off small and try and grow, then, OK, it may well still end in tears, but at least he's not burdening himself with huge amounts of debt and aggro.

It all seems a great idea, but will it pay its way ? I'd be very surprised, unless there's some form of support from somewhere, but I suspect there's nothing hidden behind the County Council's settee !

www.spiritbuses.co.uk/news.html

Questionaires are back in, timetables set up and now he is off to get some funding!

I do hope he got more than six per cent of the questionnaires back...

(29 Aug 2013, 12:40 pm)eezypeazy wrote [ -> ]I do hope he got more than six per cent of the questionnaires back...

He hasn't quoted numbers - but 'here are some of them' pic.twitter.com/CJ2GG621yL

More than two hundred... given the rural nature of the area, that sounds pretty good to me. Now, looking back to my earlier maths, all he needs is about one third of them to travel regularly and he might have a viable business...

Still no launch, but funding is going well and he is giving potential passengers a choice of routes.

Wonder how Spirit Buses is getting on...

It seems that Spirit Buses still have quite a few hoops to jump through. First, they need financial backing; this means that they can prove to the Traffic Commissioners that they are of good financial standing. Next, they'll need an operating centre and suitable vehicle maintenance arrangements; next, they need a transport manager with the relevant Certificate of Professional Competence. Then they can apply to the Traffic Commissioner for the grant of an operating licence. If granted, they can then register services with eight weeks' notice. If they're planning to start operating this summer, they'll need to get their skates on...

Buying or leasing the buses is the easy bit!

The last update was in Jan and he states he plans to be up and running before the summer http://www.spiritbuses.co.uk/news.html