North East Buses

If Stagecoach Newcastle were to start withdrawing services, which services would be withdrawn first? 87? 35? 32? 18? 8?

32/32A Benwell - Byker only, with plenty of services for Cowgate, Fenham and Blakelaw and Walker. Operated by GCT, or maybe A-line? Possibly Go North East?

(19 Dec 2021, 6:29 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]32/32A Benwell - Byker only, with plenty of services for Cowgate, Fenham and Blakelaw and Walker. Operated by GCT, or maybe A-line?  Possibly Go North East?

Gateshead Taxis!! Are you trying to put people off from getting the bus?

(19 Dec 2021, 6:45 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]Gateshead Taxis!! Are you trying to put people off from getting the bus?

They have good buses and can run a service well. Although Go North East are my favourite, I do like A-line, GCT and Phoenix and would like them and Henry Cooper and Stanley Travel to operate more bus services. If GCT don't run too many services they can offer a reliable and cheap service.

(19 Dec 2021, 6:55 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]They have good buses and can run a service well. Although Go North East are my favourite, I do like A-line, GCT and Phoenix and would like them and Henry Cooper and Stanley Travel to operate more bus services. If GCT don't run too many services they can offer a reliable and cheap service.

I don't think 'reliable' and 'GCT' often get used together in the same sentence

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(16 Dec 2021, 9:10 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]12 is confusing having Walker and Wallsend variations, and shorter ones to Scrogg Road. 12/13 makes sense and 13 could merge with the Nexus 13.

To get rid of your "confusing" problem with the 12 I'd have the Q3 renumbered to 13 at it's current route and freq. and introduce a 14 to compliment it.
12 = Fenham - Walker (current 12 route and freq)
13 = Great Park - Wallsend (current Q3 route and freq)
14 = Brunton Park - Hadrian Park (current arriva 46 route and 30 min freq with current 18 route from Shields road to walker + current 12 route from walker to Wallsend and current GNE 41 route from Wallsend High St to Hadrian Park.) 
The 14 would combine the Arriva 46, Stagecoach 18 & 12, GNE 41.

Then to deal with the 18 being cut short a new 64 could be introduced at a 30 min freq to compliment the 62/63/X63, doing the norht end of the 18 and maybe GCT 84a to West Denton.

(16 Dec 2021, 9:10 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]74 - Stagecoach ran a 74 from Newcastle to Callerton at some point and I think Stagecoach having the 74 would be a good idea for a number of reasons. GNE should run the X77 as service 77.

You see I'd make use of the 71 etc here....
71 = City Centre - Throckley (as it is), every 30 mins
72 = City Centre - Throckley (merge nexus 13 with current 72), every 60 mins
73 = City Centre - Newbiggin Hall (current 87 renumbered), every 60 mins
74 = City Centre - Hexham (current GNE 74), every 60 mins
Would have a combined frequency of 15 mins for Westerhope - City Centre with the 71 at a 30 min freq that'll be a bus up to every 10 mins with wider links.

Keep the X77 as it is.


All NEW/AMENDED services would be...
12 = Fenham - Walker ONLY
13 = Great Park - Wallsend
14 = Brunton Park - Hadrian Park
64 = West Denton - Benton/Quorum
72 = City Centre - Throckley
73 = City Centre - Newbiggin Hall
74 = City Centre - Hexham

(19 Dec 2021, 7:20 pm)peter wrote [ -> ]I don't think 'reliable' and 'GCT' often get used together in the same sentence

Believe me, I know how bad they are. They have let me down and I've seen how bad they are. All I'm saying is, they can run a good service when they want to. Regardless of that, Stagecoach has been incredibly shit for me and I think alternatives should continue to be available. 

Personally I'd like to see the 84/84A revised somehow, as it only seems useful Metrocentre to Benwell and I think it needs renumbering and some heavy marketing to support it's viability.

(19 Dec 2021, 7:34 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Believe me, I know how bad they are. They have let me down and I've seen how bad they are. All I'm saying is, they can run a good service when they want to. Regardless of that, Stagecoach has been incredibly shit for me and I think alternatives should continue to be available. 

Personally I'd like to see the 84/84A revised somehow, as it only seems useful Metrocentre to Benwell and I think it needs renumbering and some heavy marketing to support it's viability.

On what grounds have Stagecoach been "relatively shit" for you.
You keep saying that you never use Stagecoach services  you deliberately use other operators mainly GNE 74 amd others so that you don't have to use Stagecoach.

In the past few months are you able to advise how many times you have used Stagecoach? Oh and can you advise just what the actual issue / problems you incur whilst using the Stagecoach services

(19 Dec 2021, 7:53 pm)ifm001 wrote [ -> ]On what grounds have Stagecoach been "relatively shit" for you.
You keep saying that you never use Stagecoach services  you deliberately use other operators mainly GNE 74 amd others so that you don't have to use Stagecoach.

In the past few months are you able to advise how many times you have used Stagecoach? Oh and can you advise just what the actual issue / problems you incur whilst using the Stagecoach services

I avoided Stagecoach as much as possible starting in 2019. Particularly when travelling into Gateshead, beyond Gateshead Town Centre, and requiring a GNE ticket. Using the 74 or X84/X85 was the best option. Since last year I have stopped using Stagecoach altogether. 

Back in 2011 Stagecoach resulted in missing the Coaster to Wallsend.
2017 I lost my job at the Metrocentre due to how unreliable the 6 and 7 were (and still are, I see them regularly, particularly changing drivers and delaying the bus).
Volunteering in Byker between 2018 and 2020 the 12 was often delayed and I used the 1 in the morning and Q3 in the afternoon, much better. 
Last year I volunteered in Westerhope and the 72 wasn't even running and neither was the 87 but luckily I was using the 74. 
Countless times Stagecoach has let me down and I've lost jobs because of it. 

Just to clarify this is Stagecoach in Newcastle. No problems in South Shields. But I use a GNE ticket in order to get to South Shields, and so can't use Stagecoach.

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The biggest issue with Stagecoach for me is that I need GNE tickets and GNE offer a wide range of tickets, and Stagecoach doesn't allow competition. GNE would run in Slatyford if Stagecoach allowed it. Yes Stagecoach is fine if travelling in Newcastle for the day, but otherwise there are better options (808 for £1 in the morning and walk home in the afternoon for one example.

If you could shake up Sunderland’s network what would you do

(19 Dec 2021, 10:23 pm)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]If you could shake up Sunderland’s network what would you do

X34 to finish at South Shields

(19 Dec 2021, 10:23 pm)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]If you could shake up Sunderland’s network what would you do

Extend the E's, beyond the city centre.
This would open up new links and make crossing the city (for places like the hospital) a lot more attractive and easier - removing the need to change buses

(20 Dec 2021, 8:32 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Extend the E's, beyond the city centre.
This would open up new links and make crossing the city (for places like the hospital) a lot more attractive and easier - removing the need to change buses

Guidance from the Government in the new BSIP will see rationalisation (including removal of duplication on some corridors). If extending the Es beyond the City Centre, would you remove resource from something like the 16 in lieu despite this having a much more established customer base making use of the cross-city link already in place on this service?

(20 Dec 2021, 8:36 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Guidance from the Government in the new BSIP will see rationalisation (including removal of duplication on some corridors). If extending the Es beyond the City Centre, would you remove resource from something like the 16 in lieu despite this having a much more established customer base making use of the cross-city link already in place on this service?

Why would the 16 need to be removed if the E1 was introduced?
There is a small portion of duplication (far less than say the GNE 2 and 78) and unless the E1 was extended to Hastings Hill, then I'm not sure there would be any cause for concern.
Start and end points are different

(20 Dec 2021, 8:54 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Why would the 16 need to be removed if the E1 was introduced?
There is a small portion of duplication (far less than say the GNE 2 and 78) and unless the E1 was extended to Hastings Hill, then I'm not sure there would be any cause for concern.
Start and end points are different

From reading the BSIP, I think the argument here would be that you're adding resource into a service unnecessarily which would duplicate the offering of other services on this corridor.

The days of direct bus services here, there and everywhere are gone. Operators had already started to move away from this in favour of the hub and spoke model, but now Government guidance reiterates this, I cannot see it being likely that any operator would extend a service on an already heavily over-bussed corridor.

It is difficult to quantify how many extra passengers you would carry by offering a direct service like this, but in my own opinion I think it is unlikely that you will generate an extra £100k in revenue to pay for the extra bus (assuming it can be done in one bus - this could even be two).

(20 Dec 2021, 10:11 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]From reading the BSIP, I think the argument here would be that you're adding resource into a service unnecessarily which would duplicate the offering of other services on this corridor.

The days of direct bus services here, there and everywhere are gone. Operators had already started to move away from this in favour of the hub and spoke model, but now Government guidance reiterates this, I cannot see it being likely that any operator would extend a service on an already heavily over-bussed corridor.

It is difficult to quantify how many extra passengers you would carry by offering a direct service like this, but in my own opinion I think it is unlikely that you will generate an extra £100k in revenue to pay for the extra bus (assuming it can be done in one bus - this could even be two).

If the hospital can generate hundreds of thousands of pounds in parking charges, I'm sure a bus company could work their magic and make even more.  Heck, the hospitals and LA's have had to put measures in place to stop the overflow of cars, spilling on to the streets!
Assuming they don't give in after a couple of months and actually think about the long term prospects for a route - tweaking/adapting to suit passenger needs, rather than throw in the towel or wave the white flag. There could be money to be made.

As for the hub and spoke. There's nothing in the BSIP which recommends this model as far as I see.
Copied the following:

.... should then describe in outline how you and operators propose to deliver the key goals of the Bus Strategy in your area.
These are making services:
- more frequent, with turn-up-and-go services on major routes and feeder or demand-responsive services to lower-density places.

- faster and more reliable, with bus priority wherever necessary and where there is room. - cheaper, with more low, flat fares in towns and cities, lower point-to-point fares elsewhere, and more daily price capping everywhere.

- more comprehensive, with overprovision on a few corridors reduced to boost provision elsewhere and better services in the evenings and weekends, not necessarily with conventional buses.

- easier to understand, with simpler routes, common numbering, co-ordinated timetable change dates, good publicity, and comprehensive information online.

- easier to use, with common tickets, passes and daily capping across all operators, simpler fares, contactless payment and protection of bus stations.

- better integrated with other modes and each other, including more bus-rail interchange and integration and inter-bus transfers.

It's mentioned in the Bus Back Better document:

Buses must also work better with each other. There are many instances of poor connections and uncoordinated timetables. Bus Service Improvement Plans should detail plans for ensuring that in places (often rural) where services are regular, but not frequent, connectivity is maximised. Hub models can connect services, with buses all arriving and departing at the hub town within the same ten or fifteen-minute window each hour, ideally all servicing the same centrally located bus or railway station.

Bus Service Improvement Plans should consider whether to simplify routes; for example, considering whether networks should have more high-frequency major route services rather than lots of low-frequency services combining. Route variations and letter suffix routes should be reduced.

Networks often try to provide infrequent through services to everywhere or divert buses away from the main route to serve smaller places, reducing speed and convenience for people travelling between a route’s major points. As described, on high-frequency services more use could instead be made of good hub-and-spoke connections, with frequent feeder buses connecting into frequent major routes and through ticketing. This becomes possible if frequency and reliability improve.

Bus Back Better

While it doesn't specifically say the model is to be used, prevent duplication or create new cross town links, authorities are widely interpreting it to focus on connections rather than adapting/extending services to serve additional areas where a service already exists.

(20 Dec 2021, 11:14 am)cainebj wrote [ -> ]It's mentioned in the Bus Back Better document:







Bus Back Better

While it doesn't specifically say the model is to be used, prevent duplication or create new cross town links, authorities are widely interpreting it to focus on connections rather than adapting/extending services to serve additional areas where a service already exists.

And that's all it is, interpretation. If hub and spoke is struggling as it stands, if passengers don't like changing buses, lugging bags on and off and can do the journey quicker via other means now - I don't get how it will make things different in the future.

The 18 scrapped would be a good idea barley see anyone it unless it got funded I don’t see it lasting any longer

(20 Dec 2021, 12:22 pm)ThomasBooth123 wrote [ -> ]The 18 scrapped would be a good idea barley see anyone it unless it got funded I don’t see it lasting any longer

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The 18 should be replaced with a 21/22 service linking Tunstall Rd (Essen Way) - City Centre - Seaburn (via Park Avenue (21), SeaFront (22). I only suggest this as I have nostalgic memories of the PTE 121/122, which ran from mid 70s to 1983. Back then it ran 6 times an hour combined during the day, with reduced frequency evenings and Sundays. I suppose it’s probably not viable.

Heres a whacky suggestion but i personally think it could work,
32-Kenton Bar-Benton via Benton (Hailsham Avenue),Goathland Avenue,Four Lane Ends,Stoneleigh Avenue,BT Call Centre,Salters Lane, Freeman Hospital,Newton.Road,Heaton Road,Shields Road,Coutts Road,Westbourne Avenue,,Walker Bus Terminal,Walker Road,St Peters Basin,Bolam Way,St Michaels Road,Dalton Street,Conyers Road,Byker Metro,,Byker Morrisons,re-joining current route to Kenton Bar,would operate at a 30 minute frequency
Withdrawl's-18/18A,32A

(20 Dec 2021, 6:36 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Heres a whacky suggestion but i personally think it could work,
32-Kenton Bar-Benton via Benton (Hailsham Avenue),Goathland Avenue,Four Lane Ends,Stoneleigh Avenue,BT Call Centre,Salters Lane, Freeman Hospital,Newton.Road,Heaton Road,Shields Road,Coutts Road,Westbourne Avenue,,Walker Bus Terminal,Walker Road,St Peters Basin,Bolam Way,St Michaels Road,Dalton Street,Conyers Road,Byker Metro,,Byker Morrisons,re-joining current route to Kenton Bar,would operate at a 30 minute frequency
Withdrawl's-18/18A,32A

I like this idea but you would have your 32 go on shields road twice in both directions, which would justbe confusing for passengers unfortunately.

(20 Dec 2021, 10:11 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]The days of direct bus services here, there and everywhere are gone. Operators had already started to move away from this in favour of the hub and spoke model, but now Government guidance reiterates this, I cannot see it being likely that any operator would extend a service on an already heavily over-bussed corridor.

And therein lies a major part of the reason a good majority of people will never switch (willingly) from their cars.

(20 Dec 2021, 11:01 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]I like this idea but you would have your 32 go on shields road twice in both directions, which would justbe confusing for passengers unfortunately.

What about routing it down Algernon Road/Denmark Street,then Heaton Road,that eliminates it going on Shields Road twice,Nexus could easily install bus stops incase there isnt any

1 - Benwell - Cobalt
6 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Kingston Park and Blakelaw
7 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Gosforth and Blakelaw
8 - Four Lane Ends - Central Station via Blakelaw (Springfield Road)
10/11 - West Denton - Throckley via City Centre and Slatyford
12 - Fenham - Wallsend
13 - West Denton - Walker
14 - Benwell - Slatyford via Blakelaw and Newbiggin Hall
18 - Benton Estate - Walker
22 - Throckley - Cobalt/Silverlink
30 - Whickham View - Fawdon via City Centre and Gosforth
31 - Whickham View - Montagu Estate via City Centre and Gosforth
32 - Benwell - Walker
36 - Slatyford - City Centre
38 - Whickham View - Freeman Hospital
39 - Dumpling Hall - Walker
40 - Chapel House - Wallsend
62 - North Walbottle - Killingworth
63 - Chapel House - Killingworth
64 - West Denton - Killingworth
71 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Westerhope
72 - City Centre - Chapel House
73 - City Centre - Callerton via Fenham
74 - Central Station - Hexham
75 - Central Station - Throckley via West Denton
X47 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Gosforth
X63 - South Gosforth - City Centre
X78 - City Centre - Darras Hall
X79 - City Centre - Kirkley Hall
X87/X88 - City Centre - Newbiggin Hall via Cowgate

(26 Dec 2021, 2:09 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]1 - Benwell - Cobalt
6 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Kingston Park and Blakelaw
7 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Gosforth and Blakelaw
8 - Four Lane Ends - Central Station via Blakelaw (Springfield Road)
10/11 - West Denton - Throckley via City Centre and Slatyford
12 - Fenham - Wallsend
13 - West Denton - Walker
14 - Benwell - Slatyford via Blakelaw and Newbiggin Hall
18 - Benton Estate - Walker
22 - Throckley - Cobalt/Silverlink
30 - Whickham View - Fawdon via City Centre and Gosforth
31 - Whickham View - Montagu Estate via City Centre and Gosforth
32 - Benwell - Walker
36 - Slatyford - City Centre
38 - Whickham View - Freeman Hospital
39 - Dumpling Hall - Walker
40 - Chapel House - Wallsend
62 - North Walbottle - Killingworth
63 - Chapel House - Killingworth
64 - West Denton - Killingworth
71 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Westerhope
72 - City Centre - Chapel House
73 - City Centre - Callerton via Fenham
74 - Central Station - Hexham
75 - Central Station - Throckley via West Denton
X47 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Gosforth
X63 - South Gosforth - City Centre
X78 - City Centre - Darras Hall
X79 - City Centre - Kirkley Hall
X87/X88 - City Centre - Newbiggin Hall via Cowgate

12 West Denton-Walker
14 Forest Hall-West Denton via Quayside,Central Station,Slatyford,Newbiggin Hall
18/18A-Withdrawn
22 West Denton-Cobalt
32-Four Lane Ends-Kenton Bar via Coach Lane Campus and current route,32 made every 30 mins,32A withdrawn
39 Wallsend-Dumpling Hall to replace the Walker-Wallsend section of the 12
What route would your 64 take?

(26 Dec 2021, 8:17 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]12 West Denton-Walker
14 Forest Hall-West Denton via Quayside,Central Station,Slatyford,Newbiggin Hall
18/18A-Withdrawn
22 West Denton-Cobalt
32-Four Lane Ends-Kenton Bar via Coach Lane Campus and current route,32 made every 30 mins,32A withdrawn
39 Wallsend-Dumpling Hall to replace the Walker-Wallsend section of the 12
What route would your 64 take?

Maybe a new 64 could do West Denton - Stamfordham Road - Silver Lonnen - West Road - Westgate Road for Central Station - New Bridge Street/Manors - Shields Road (Morrisons) - non-stop to Wallsend High Street - non stop to Four Lane Ends - non stop to Killingworth Bus Station?

Your 14 sounds like a good idea for Go North East. 22 could do West Denton as you suggested, removing the need for the 12, which could terminate at Slatyford as my 1 would terminate at Benwell so a 12 service could replace that.

18/18A can't be withdrawn apparently, but could maybe be improved.

32A should be withdrawn. 32 doesn't really need to run.

39 I doubt will ever go to Wallsend, although I think it should and the 40 could be extended to Hadrian Park maybe?

1 - Benwell - Cobalt
6 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Kingston Park and Blakelaw
7 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Gosforth and Blakelaw
8 - Four Lane Ends - Central Station via Blakelaw (Springfield Road)
10/11 - West Denton - Throckley via City Centre and Slatyford
12 - Slatyford - Wallsend
13 - West Denton - Walker (replacing 13)
14 - Benwell - Slatyford via Blakelaw and Newbiggin Hall
18 - Benton Estate - Walker
22 - West Denton - Cobalt/Silverlink
30 - Whickham View - Fawdon via City Centre and Gosforth
31 - Whickham View - Montagu Estate via City Centre and Gosforth
32 - Benwell - Walker
36 - Slatyford - City Centre
38 - Whickham View - Freeman Hospital
39 - Dumpling Hall - Walker
40 - Chapel House - Wallsend
62 - North Walbottle - Killingworth
63 - Chapel House - Killingworth
64 - West Denton - Killingworth via City Centre, Byker, Wallsend and Four Lane Ends
71 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Westerhope (replacing M71)
72 - City Centre - Chapel House
73 - City Centre - Callerton via Fenham
74 - Central Station - Hexham
75 - Central Station - Throckley via West Denton
84 - West Denton - Metrocentre via Denton Burn, Slatyford, Fenham, City Centre and Benwell (replacing 84/84A)
X47 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Gosforth
X63 - South Gosforth - City Centre
X78 - City Centre - Darras Hall
X79 - City Centre - Kirkley Hall
X82 - Throckley - City Centre
X87/X88 - City Centre - Newbiggin Hall via Cowgate (no longer serving Blakelaw)

(26 Dec 2021, 10:19 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Maybe a new 64 could do West Denton - Stamfordham Road - Silver Lonnen - West Road - Westgate Road for Central Station - New Bridge Street/Manors - Shields Road (Morrisons) - non-stop to Wallsend High Street - non stop to Four Lane Ends - non stop to Killingworth Bus Station?

Your 14 sounds like a good idea for Go North East. 22 could do West Denton as you suggested, removing the need for the 12, which could terminate at Slatyford as my 1 would terminate at Benwell so a 12 service could replace that.

18/18A can't be withdrawn apparently, but could maybe be improved.

32A should be withdrawn. 32 doesn't really need to run.

39 I doubt will ever go to Wallsend, although I think it should and the 40 could be extended to Hadrian Park maybe?

you are kidding regarding the 39 /40. The time keeping on this route is bad enough now when it goes to wallsend. Curtail both at walker, plenty of other options to get to wallsend.

1 - Benwell - Cobalt
6 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Kingston Park and Blakelaw
7 - Four Lane Ends - Metrocentre via Gosforth and Blakelaw
8 - Four Lane Ends - Central Station via Blakelaw (Springfield Road)
10/11 - West Denton - Throckley via City Centre and Slatyford
12 - Slatyford - Wallsend
13 - West Denton - Walker (replacing 13)
14 - Benwell - Slatyford via Blakelaw and Newbiggin Hall
18 - Benton Estate - Walker
22 - West Denton - Cobalt/Silverlink
23 - Newcastle - Hadrian Park
30 - Whickham View - Fawdon via City Centre and Gosforth
31 - Whickham View - Montagu Estate via City Centre and Gosforth
32 - Benwell - Walker
36 - Slatyford - City Centre
38 - Whickham View - Freeman Hospital
39 - Dumpling Hall - Walker
40 - Chapel House - Wallsend
62 - North Walbottle - Killingworth
63 - Chapel House - Killingworth
64 - West Denton - Killingworth via City Centre, Byker, Wallsend and Four Lane Ends
71 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Westerhope (replacing M71)
72 - City Centre - Chapel House
73 - City Centre - Callerton via Fenham
74 - Central Station - Hexham
75 - Central Station - Throckley via West Denton
84 - West Denton - Metrocentre via Denton Burn, Slatyford, Fenham, City Centre and Benwell (replacing 84/84A)
X47 - City Centre - Kingston Park via Gosforth
X63 - South Gosforth - City Centre
X78 - City Centre - Darras Hall
X79 - City Centre - Kirkley Hall
X82 - Throckley - City Centre
X87/X88 - City Centre - Newbiggin Hall via Cowgate (no longer serving Blakelaw)