North East Buses

(31 Dec 2014, 5:45 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]They probably just want turning down. All of our drivers know how to do it at Stockton, but we are 'forbidden' from touching them. If they're too high they'll get turned down though!

Seems sensible that they don't want everyone fiddling with them. If there's an inconsistency across the fleet, they'll end up with complaints they're too loud and complaints they're too quiet. 

(01 Jan 2015, 11:54 am)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Seems sensible that they don't want everyone fiddling with them. If there's an inconsistency across the fleet, they'll end up with complaints they're too loud and complaints they're too quiet. 

Yup, that's the reason why it's the same at Go North East.

No drivers are allowed to alter the volume of the Next Stop Announcements - only selected people at each depot.

(01 Jan 2015, 11:54 am)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Seems sensible that they don't want everyone fiddling with them. If there's an inconsistency across the fleet, they'll end up with complaints they're too loud and complaints they're too quiet. 

That and there is auditors that go around undercover to check on these things, so if they're too quiet they will get found out. They are too loud when installed though, practically shouting. Passengers did complain.

(01 Jan 2015, 1:10 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]That and there is auditors that go around undercover to check on these things, so if they're too quiet they will get found out. They are too loud when installed though, practically shouting. Passengers did complain.

Auditors - do you mean mystery shoppers?

(01 Jan 2015, 1:39 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Auditors - do you mean mystery shoppers?

We do have mystery shoppers but we also have the Sapphire implementation team (people from various divisions) who travel around checking - they were in the North East a few weeks ago.... wonder what they thought of Ashington's offering??

(01 Jan 2015, 2:16 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]We do have mystery shoppers but we also have the Sapphire implementation team (people from various divisions) who travel around checking - they were in the North East a few weeks ago.... wonder what they thought of Ashington's offering??

Brilliant

(01 Jan 2015, 2:16 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]We do have mystery shoppers but we also have the Sapphire implementation team (people from various divisions) who travel around checking - they were in the North East a few weeks ago.... wonder what they thought of Ashington's offering??

Probably got on one of the 57-reg ones in the morning arriving at their destination frozen and very late

Or got on a MAX E400, as the Sapphire one that should've been on was broken, and breathed a sigh of relief they didn't have to travel on said 57 reg Sapphire one

(01 Jan 2015, 2:16 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]We do have mystery shoppers but we also have the Sapphire implementation team (people from various divisions) who travel around checking - they were in the North East a few weeks ago.... wonder what they thought of Ashington's offering??

And with this in mind, what powers do these people have to put things right or is it just a case of a jolly around the UK to look at buses?

If there is an implementation team which is part of Arriva UK and not local management, how come we have different standards across the Sapphire brand - things like different colour destination displays.

(01 Jan 2015, 2:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]And with this in mind, what powers do these people have to put things right or is it just a case of a jolly around the UK to look at buses?

Must admit, my first thought was that there must be a more effective and vastly cheaper way of doing this!  :s

(01 Jan 2015, 2:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]And with this in mind, what powers do these people have to put things right or is it just a case of a jolly around the UK to look at buses?

If there is an implementation team which is part of Arriva UK and not local management, how come we have different standards across the Sapphire brand - things like different colour destination displays.

Or more importantly - seating configuration/passenger comfort. 


CX14BXV - Interior Shot. by Iveco 59-12, on Flickr


Arriva North East: 7523 / NK14 GFO by mdw9121, on Flickr

The seating in the new E400s for example, are no different to what GNE have in the TTX B9s, apart from the they're eleather rather than fabric? Does eleather provide any additional comfort, or is it simply easier to maintain? It'd take me about 5 minutes per fabric seat to properly foam clean it, whereas I could wipe clean an eleather seat in a couple of seconds?

More positively though, I am a fan of the interior colour scheme and branding both inside and out. I found the next stop announcements good too, as whenever I've used a Sapphire route, I've not actually known where I am. I found the volume excessive on the Pulsars on the 7, but it seemed alright on the E400s I had on my trip up to Ashington. 

I do think that next stop screens should be provided as standard, but perhaps could be a bit more helpful. It'd be good if Arriva (and GNE actually) displayed ticket boundaries. So if I was on the 7, it'd show me the boundary point for the Durham District ticket, for example. It'd be a bit easier for GNE to do this, with perhaps a Buzzfare banner along the top or bottom of the screen.

(01 Jan 2015, 3:06 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Or more importantly - seating configuration/passenger comfort. 


CX14BXV - Interior Shot. by Iveco 59-12, on Flickr


Arriva North East: 7523 / NK14 GFO by mdw9121, on Flickr

Just as a suggestion, could it be that the X21/22 require the additional capacity these smaller seats give at peak times? Virtually every bus I see leaving Newcastle/ going into Newcastle at peak times are packed?

(01 Jan 2015, 3:10 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Just as a suggestion, could it be that the X21/22 require the additional capacity these smaller seats give at peak times? Virtually every bus I see leaving Newcastle/ going into Newcastle at peak times are packed?

You'd argue it shouldn't be 'Sapphire' if that's the case. A brand is a standard, and you'd expect the Sapphire standard in every branded vehicle you enter. If they required the extra seats, they could have used the 'MAX' standard they've created for the North East & Yorkshire, whilst still providing the eleather seats and WiFi. No next stop screens mind.

(01 Jan 2015, 3:12 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]You'd argue it shouldn't be 'Sapphire' if that's the case. A brand is a standard, and you'd expect the Sapphire standard in every branded vehicle you enter. If they required the extra seats, they could have used the 'MAX' standard they've created for the North East & Yorkshire, whilst still providing the eleather seats and WiFi. No next stop screens mind.

Aye, this is even worse if I'm honest:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelmey...158952811/

No way should this be the case, as even if those seats did have high backs it would take no extra space!!

Additionally, Stagecoach use these seats with their "Gold" E400's, better than the ones in the NE Sapphire E400's, with what would probably be the same amount of them:

YN14OWO - Interior Shot. by Iveco 59-12, on Flickr

(01 Jan 2015, 3:10 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Just as a suggestion, could it be that the X21/22 require the additional capacity these smaller seats give at peak times? Virtually every bus I see leaving Newcastle/ going into Newcastle at peak times are packed?

You can still get seats which are of a better quality than ours in the North East, allowing for the same capacity:

Inside the luxurious 990 by Stuart Montgomery's Lothian Buses, on Flickr

Not sure if that style of seat is available on ADL products, but it's very comfy indeed.

(01 Jan 2015, 3:06 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Or more importantly - seating configuration/passenger comfort. 


CX14BXV - Interior Shot. by Iveco 59-12, on Flickr


Arriva North East: 7523 / NK14 GFO by mdw9121, on Flickr

The seating in the new E400s for example, are no different to what GNE have in the TTX B9s, apart from the they're eleather rather than fabric? Does eleather provide any additional comfort, or is it simply easier to maintain? It'd take me about 5 minutes per fabric seat to properly foam clean it, whereas I could wipe clean an eleather seat in a couple of seconds?

More positively though, I am a fan of the interior colour scheme and branding both inside and out. I found the next stop announcements good too, as whenever I've used a Sapphire route, I've not actually known where I am. I found the volume excessive on the Pulsars on the 7, but it seemed alright on the E400s I had on my trip up to Ashington. 

I do think that next stop screens should be provided as standard, but perhaps could be a bit more helpful. It'd be good if Arriva (and GNE actually) displayed ticket boundaries. So if I was on the 7, it'd show me the boundary point for the Durham District ticket, for example. It'd be a bit easier for GNE to do this, with perhaps a Buzzfare banner along the top or bottom of the screen.

The 2+1 seating upstairs seems to be a Wales-exclusive thing as only their 2 'Sapphire' services (Wrexham's 1 and Rhyl's 12) have the 2+1 seating. Which is why the Rhyl examples seat just 63 (32 upstairs and 31 down) compared to the 76 7522-28 can carry (47/29).

As for e-leather vs fabric - yes, one reason operators such as Arriva and First seem to be moving towards e-leather is the ease of which you can clean e-leather.

(01 Jan 2015, 3:10 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Just as a suggestion, could it be that the X21/22 require the additional capacity these smaller seats give at peak times? Virtually every bus I see leaving Newcastle/ going into Newcastle at peak times are packed?

More Wales management prefer 2+1 seating upstairs while other areas would rather have 2+2 seating for maximum carrying capacity.

To be honest I find the newly refurbished buses with standard fabric seating more comfy than new e leather seating...

The Leicester one with the Civic V2's was one of the 4 "trial" routes to see what worked. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that one gain newer vehicles than cascaded London B7TL's.

(01 Jan 2015, 3:57 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]The Leicester one with the Civic V2's was one of the 4 "trial" routes to see what worked. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that one gain newer vehicles than cascaded London B7TL's.

Leicester's route used B7TLs from their own fleet (One of them 4005 before and after refurbishment)

First photo @ John
Second photo @ Ben's Transport Photos

(01 Jan 2015, 3:57 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]The Leicester one with the Civic V2's was one of the 4 "trial" routes to see what worked. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that one gain newer vehicles than cascaded London B7TL's.

I don't fully understand what they've done with them though, as if they were trialling those seats, they would have them upstairs and down not a mixture? It looks as though they've got what the North East's Sapphire buses have on their downstairs and those V2's upstairs? 

(01 Jan 2015, 4:05 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I don't fully understand what they've done with them though, as if they were trialling those seats, they would have them upstairs and down not a mixture? It looks as though they've got what the North East's Sapphire buses have on their downstairs and those V2's upstairs? 

The Leicester B7TLs have standard Civic V2 seats on both deck. These are the same as those fitted to the standard vehicles here in the north east (the Pulsars and un-refurbished Geminis). The Welsh E400s have the same seats as the North East examples on the lower deck but have the EGA Relax Classic seating on the upper deck.

The high back version of the Civic V2 is the V3 with the headrest added.

Here's a question. What are Arriva going to do when their 57 reg Sapphire E400 examples begin to age both interior wise and mechanically and when do you think Arriva will replace them?

(01 Jan 2015, 6:44 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Here's a question. What are Arriva going to do when their 57 reg Sapphire E400 examples begin to age both interior wise and mechanically and when do you think Arriva will replace them?

2022-ish and hopefully replace them with more ADL E400s probably new or if they buy any more towards 2022 refurbish them.

2022? If they did that, they'd be in major trouble and could be wiped out by other operators (not just GNE) no matter how much they'd try and protect the Northumberland network.

(01 Jan 2015, 7:04 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]2022? If they did that, they'd be in major trouble and could be wiped out by other operators (not just GNE) no matter how much they'd try and protect the Northumberland network.

By 2022, I'd imagine that the provision of Wi-Fi, Next Stop Announcements, and plug sockets will become standard on all buses (a lot of bus operators have already added Wi-Fi to a large amount of their fleets). I don't think it'd be irrational to suggest that they'll be moved off the X21/X22 services in a couple of years time, and moved to a lower rank on the hierarchy of Arriva's bus services.

As 57-reg vehicles, these vehicles should in fact be disposed of in 2022.

(01 Jan 2015, 6:44 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Here's a question. What are Arriva going to do when their 57 reg Sapphire E400 examples begin to age both interior wise and mechanically and when do you think Arriva will replace them?

I'd reckon, if the X21/22 has seen growth in line with what some of the other Sapphire routes have, they'll get new buses within a couple more years. Can't remember which route it is but I'm positive I've saw a comment or something somewhere stating that the older E400's used on said route are being replaced this year (think it might be the 280 route).

(01 Jan 2015, 4:12 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]The Leicester B7TLs have standard Civic V2 seats on both deck. These are the same as those fitted to the standard vehicles here in the north east (the Pulsars and un-refurbished Geminis). The Welsh E400s have the same seats as the North East examples on the lower deck but have the EGA Relax Classic seating on the upper deck.

Ah right okay  I'd just typed "sapphire gemini" and saw a photo of the high backed seats downstairs must have been an E400 or something instead then, probably should have read the description or had a closer look before assuming it was one of the B7's 

(01 Jan 2015, 7:10 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]By 2022, I'd imagine that the provision of Wi-Fi, Next Stop Announcements, and plug sockets will become standard on all buses (a lot of bus operators have already added Wi-Fi to a large amount of their fleets). I don't think it'd be irrational to suggest that they'll be moved off the X21/X22 services in a couple of years time, and moved to a lower rank on the hierarchy of Arriva's bus services.

As 57-reg vehicles, these vehicles should in fact be disposed of in 2022.

Interesting views. Certainly the likes of sapphire  shouldn't  be expected to be run with aged stock, not as a premier  service.  It does raise other policy questions though. For example the omni city's for the X66  These are nigh on 10 at the point of entry onto a high speed front line MAX service. Maybe their time should be limited as well
Also,  bear in mind that ANE ensure book values are always nil and some more before vehicles are withdrawn. Recent Darts and Prestige examples have all only gone after 17 or more years. 

(01 Jan 2015, 9:04 pm)9920up wrote [ -> ]Interesting views. Certainly the likes of sapphire  shouldn't  be expected to be run with aged stock, not as a premier  service.  It does raise other policy questions though. For example the omni city's for the X66  These are nigh on 10 at the point of entry onto a high speed front line MAX service. Maybe their time should be limited as well
Also,  bear in mind that ANE ensure book values are always nil and some more before vehicles are withdrawn. Recent Darts and Prestige examples have all only gone after 17 or more years. 

Shame they didn't do that with the P4xx CCU Palatine 2's even though they weren't DDA compliant. I'd happily ride on one of those any day over a Sapphire E400 or Go North East spec B9TL (I do like B9s though, but the Palatine is another kettle of fish)! Volvo should have kept that D10 engine going but made it a bit more efficient and refined. Therefore, they could have catered for all markets from the rural roads of Northumberland to the polluted Hong Hong.

(01 Jan 2015, 9:31 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Shame they didn't do that with the P4xx CCU Palatine 2's even though they weren't DDA compliant. I'd happily ride on one of those any day over a Sapphire E400 or Go North East spec B9TL (I do like B9s though, but the Palatine is another kettle of fish)! Volvo should have kept that D10 engine going but made it a bit more efficient and refined. Therefore, they could have catered for all markets from the rural roads of Northumberland to the polluted Hong Hong.

What about a Sapphire Palatine 2 Olympian....