Go North East: Latest News & Discussion - November 2016
The difference between a coach and a bus (apart from the body and seating) is the gearing.

It is perfectly possible to build a 'bus' with coach gearing (double overdrive ratio gearbox or lower numerical axle ratio) using standard transmission options - ie no special parts other than spares if you need to rebuild the transmission.

The disadvantage would be running in lower gears in urban areas, but the advantage would be less stress on the engine on 'fast' parts of the route (and, probably lower fuel consumption).

Of course, the compromise would be when you need to transfer vehicles onto other routes which are either hilly or congested.
(30/11/2016, 18:14)Michael Wrote: Newgate Street in Newcastle is closed between Clayton Street and Grainger Street due to an incident on a nearby demolition site.

Newgate Street in Newcastle city centre has been closed due to unsafe scaffolding at the redevelopment of the former Newgate Shopping Centre, Newcastle City Council says.
A council spokesman said: "In the interest of public safety, the city council has agreed to an emergency road closure on Newgate Street so that the scaffold can be safely removed. 
(30/11/2016, 14:30)RBZ 5459 Wrote: I noticed the Twitter rage this morning, made interesting viewing as I sipped my 9 o'clock brew at work this morning.

Facebook wasn't much better either. Customers being met with vague references to using the fare finder on the website, but no actual detail of what has increased. Most criticism was met silence though!

I'll choose my words carefully, but this is not what you expect from a multi national business. Increasing prices and not being clear to customers about the changes. Perhaps 'trying to gloss over' a negative message, isn't far from the truth?

Imagine if your council or utility companies upped your bill and neglected to inform you? The regulator would be on their back and their feet wouldn't touch the ground.

Very unfair on customers, and not to mention the drivers that will have been getting stick all day.
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(30/11/2016, 18:17)G-CPTN Wrote: The difference between a coach and a bus (apart from the body and seating) is the gearing.

It is perfectly possible to build a 'bus' with coach gearing (double overdrive ratio gearbox or lower numerical axle ratio) using standard transmission options - ie no special parts other than spares if you need to rebuild the transmission.

The disadvantage would be running in lower gears in urban areas, but the advantage would be less stress on the engine on 'fast' parts of the route (and, probably lower fuel consumption).

Of course, the compromise would be when you need to transfer vehicles onto other routes which are either hilly or congested.


Its not as possible as you think.

First of all the chassis needs to be able to accommodate the Big, Strong Transmissions such as the Coach/Truck I-Shift ( or similar ) , Which a Small length double deck chassis wouldn't.

Secondly, Most of the markets engine's are not compatible with such a strong transmission, The Daimler OM934LA in the Streetdeck, The Cummins ISBe in both 4 and 6 cylinder formats,
While Scania's DC9 is half available depending on Which HP and Torque model you purchase, The Bus Spec DC9 is not in this range however, With max torque coming from the 280 hp Spec DC9, Which will fit in with ZF Ecolife 6HP-1400 as the engine produces 1400nm torque according to the spec sheet.

That's why id recommend buying a high performance bus as opposed to a coach for the TTX, The 280hp model of the Scania N250UD is the highest powered 2 axle Double Decker on the market, So would be as near performance to a coach as you can get, It will be more robust, And will be more suited to the demands due to the higher Power configuration and a higher Torque gearbox as opposed to the 250hp option which comes with the lesser 6HP-1200 Ecolife, So will not be as capable.

Another thing people haven't noticed is that the Scania chassis comes with a higher powered 6.7L Cummins ISBe option, It produces only 10hp less than the highest rated Scania ( Which is 280hp ) and produces near the same torque as the Scania, Despite being 2 litres less than the Scania.

Id heavily suggest getting the Scania Chassis E400MMC on trial before making decisions on what to buy.
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In relation to the new Hexham bus station,does anyone know if paper timetables are available to pick up. Old bus station was a nightmare,never any there to collect.
(30/11/2016, 20:04)South Tyne Lad Wrote: That's why id recommend buying a high performance bus as opposed to a coach for the TTX, The 280hp model of the Scania N250UD is the highest powered 2 axle Double Decker on the market, So would be as near performance to a coach as you can get, It will be more robust, And will be more suited to the demands due to the higher Power configuration and a higher Torque gearbox as opposed to the 250hp option which comes with the lesser 6HP-1200 Ecolife, So will not be as capable.

Another thing people haven't noticed is that the Scania chassis comes with a higher powered 6.7L Cummins ISBe option, It produces only 10hp less than the highest rated Scania ( Which is 280hp ) and produces near the same torque as the Scania, Despite being 2 litres less than the Scania.

Id heavily suggest getting the Scania Chassis E400MMC on trial before making decisions on what to buy.

It still won't be as suited to running up and down the A19 every day as a coach, as coaches are literally built for that purpose. 

Of course there are obvious drawbacks to operating coaches on the TTX especially if you factor in cost, but coaches would also last far longer on the route than your Scania powered E400. Bear in mind here that the route has killed a fleet of B9TLs in 4 and a bit years. 

I'm pretty sure the coach v bus debate has been had many times before, especially when on the subject of the TTX, however now there are increasingly fewer buses that are capable of running such a route, whereas there are several options in terms of suitable coaches.
(30/11/2016, 21:38)mb134 Wrote: It still won't be as suited to running up and down the A19 every day as a coach, as coaches are literally built for that purpose. 

Of course there are obvious drawbacks to operating coaches on the TTX especially if you factor in cost, but coaches would also last far longer on the route than your Scania powered E400. Bear in mind here that the route has killed a fleet of B9TLs in 4 and a bit years. 

I'm pretty sure the coach v bus debate has been had many times before, especially when on the subject of the TTX, however now there are increasingly fewer buses that are capable of running such a route, whereas there are several options in terms of suitable coaches.


No bus will be used to that type of route, The X9/X10 is one of the most unique routes in the country.

Having Coaches reduces the capacity per hour that can be carried, As its illegal for standees in a coach, Which is a major push for the likes of Peak time journeys out of Newcastle or all day Saturdays etc,  Unless a Oxford Tube style high frecuency service is provided.

This then draws it back to Double Deckers, While everyone ( including management ) should know the Streetdeck couldn't cope when it was on trial due to it being limited to 50mph, Adding also the fact that its hairdryer wouldn't last long running constantly at high revs with a 4 speed gearbox.

The B9TL's ( if kept in good condition ) are stars, 4 and half years pounding a route like that is getting your moneys worth out of them, They aren't exactly dead yet, They'll work for a good few more years yet as spares for less demanding services.

Like I said above, Having coaches would possibly need a higher frequency service to fit everyone with spare capacity, While less Double Deckers will take the same load with still standees remaining to be taken.
That's why I suggested the Scania E400, As its nearly on par with the B9TL, So you can expect atleast another 4 and a half years out of them too, No point going for the Streetdeck as that'll only last 2 years maximum before turning into Arriva's VDL Gemini's/

Then in 2021 when they need replacing, There'll be Euro 7 Deckers with Corsa engines in them as there considered powerful enough.... ( joking, But I woudnt be surprised if it happens anyways )
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(30/11/2016, 20:30)C785 OCN Wrote: In relation to the new Hexham bus station,does anyone know if paper timetables are available to pick up. Old bus station was a nightmare,never any there to collect.

There were no paper timetables available early today - the depot manager said they were needing a display stand.

I also found the paper timetables (that are normally displayed on bus stops) pasted onto the windows of the waiting room (pointing outwards, so readable by passengers outside) somewhat less than ideal.

As far as I could see there was no departure information next to the stands.

Another thing - the X85 was parked on the departure stand (having arrived as X84 from the railway station) with the doors closed and passengers queuing in the cold - no shelter!

The waiting room is not next to the X85 departure stand, so retreating to the waiting room is hardly an option.
(30/11/2016, 22:23)South Tyne Lad Wrote: No bus will be used to that type of route, The X9/X10 is one of the most unique routes in the country.

Having Coaches reduces the capacity per hour that can be carried, As its illegal for standees in a coach, Which is a major push for the likes of Peak time journeys out of Newcastle or all day Saturdays etc,  Unless a Oxford Tube style high frecuency service is provided.

This then draws it back to Double Deckers, While everyone ( including management ) should know the Streetdeck couldn't cope when it was on trial due to it being limited to 50mph, Adding also the fact that its hairdryer wouldn't last long running constantly at high revs with a 4 speed gearbox.

The B9TL's ( if kept in good condition ) are stars, 4 and half years pounding a route like that is getting your moneys worth out of them, They aren't exactly dead yet, They'll work for a good few more years yet as spares for less demanding services.

Like I said above, Having coaches would possibly need a higher frequency service to fit everyone with spare capacity, While less Double Deckers will take the same load with still standees remaining to be taken.
That's why I suggested the Scania E400, As its nearly on par with the B9TL, So you can expect atleast another 4 and a half years out of them too, No point going for the Streetdeck as that'll only last 2 years maximum before turning into Arriva's VDL Gemini's/

Then in 2021 when they need replacing, There'll be Euro 7 Deckers with Corsa engines in them as there considered powerful enough.... ( joking, But I woudnt be surprised if it happens anyways )

I'm really not too sure on what the loads are usually like on the TTX, however:

An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads? 

Even a Plaxton Elite i can hold 75 passengers, which I believe is similar to the seating capacity of the current B9TLs that are used on the service. 

Also, at every 30 minutes, is it really a massive issue if 2 people aren't able to board? I'm sure they'd prefer to wait half an hour and get a seat on a coach, than stand on a double decker that can barely cope with the route anyway, let alone with a standing load.
(01/12/2016, 00:52)mb134 Wrote: I'm really not too sure on what the loads are usually like on the TTX, however:

An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads? 

Even a Plaxton Elite i can hold 75 passengers, which I believe is similar to the seating capacity of the current B9TLs that are used on the service. 

Also, at every 30 minutes, is it really a massive issue if 2 people aren't able to board? I'm sure they'd prefer to wait half an hour and get a seat on a coach, than stand on a double decker that can barely cope with the route anyway, let alone with a standing load.
in my opinion in choice of buying buses for this route maybe Go North East should go for the MCV Evoseti because the ones that first have in south yprkshire are providing exceptional service and comfort on the long route. but as a lot of people say that is my opinion
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7486 LJ51 DGZ
1764 NK05 GWC
5230 NK55 OLH
6301 NK16 BXA
22570 SP08 DCV
12078 NK11 DJD
FJ61 EXO
(01/12/2016, 01:13)Buses98 Wrote: in my opinion in choice of buying buses for this route maybe Go North East should go for the MCV Evoseti because the ones that first have in south yprkshire are providing exceptional service and comfort on the long route. but as a lot of people say that is my opinion

That's a B5TL or B5LH!
Having driven both the TTX and National Express Coaches, I have to say that whilst the coaches would mechanically be able to cope with the TTX without any difficulty, a problem would arise with regard to wheelchairs. I can only speak for the Scania/Caetano Levante Tri Axles 7094 etc.  These coaches had a lift mechanism to overcome the floor height, not a ramp, and it took 20 minutes to load a wheelchair onto the coach. Complete seats had to be physically moved to make way for the wheelchair. I cannot comment about the current Volvo Tri Axles, but any coach with the aforementioned layout would be unsuitable for service work. I cannot see a way around this because of the floor height of the coach.
(01/12/2016, 00:52)mb134 Wrote: An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads? 

The Astromega appears not to be low floor - not ideal for elderly and those with reduced mobility.
I think the Volvo Olympian was the last suitable bus to cope with the X9 / X10 mainly because it had a proper engine in it.

One decker that hasn't been mentioned is the Optare MetroDecker, and from travelling on it on the X1 when it was on there, it seemed quite happy to sit at 62mph on the Washington Highway.
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Weren't the Coaches taken off the X10 after the trial due to negative passenger feedback?

As I and others have said, you probably need to treat the route like the Oxford Tube. Though I'm sure the Oxford Tube makes its investment back (£15 sngle fares!) not sure how profitable the X10 actually is to justify a tube style investment and in real terms it's not a massively long journey.

Maybe the talk should shift to more reliable buses than ideas of coaches etc
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