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North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses

North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses

 
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mb134



4,131
24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm #81
Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky. 

The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?

Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?

While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount. 

Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...
mb134
24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm #81

Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky. 

The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?

Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?

While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount. 

Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...

Ambassador



1,820
24 Nov 2021, 8:30 pm #82
(24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm)mb134 Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky. 

The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?

Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?

While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount. 

Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...

I laughed at that too, GNEs myriad of fares and brands are the probably the most complex out of all

It’s political posturing at its best. It’s focusing on far too many nice to haves and not enough functional stuff like basic integrated ticketing across the region.

absolutely nothing will come of it and Labour will whinge about Tory cuts and we’ll be in 10 years behind where we should be. The exact same thing happened with Superroutes and Orpheus with Nexus.

Wistfully stuck in the 90s
Ambassador
24 Nov 2021, 8:30 pm #82

(24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm)mb134 Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky. 

The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?

Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?

While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount. 

Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...

I laughed at that too, GNEs myriad of fares and brands are the probably the most complex out of all

It’s political posturing at its best. It’s focusing on far too many nice to haves and not enough functional stuff like basic integrated ticketing across the region.

absolutely nothing will come of it and Labour will whinge about Tory cuts and we’ll be in 10 years behind where we should be. The exact same thing happened with Superroutes and Orpheus with Nexus.


Wistfully stuck in the 90s

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm #83
I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please
Keeiajs
24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm #83

I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please

Andreos1



14,155
24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm #84
(24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm)Keeiajs I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please

Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.

They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm #84

(24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm)Keeiajs I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please

Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.

They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

MurdnunoC



3,965
26 Nov 2021, 7:24 am #85
(24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm)Andreos1 Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.

They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.

Redbus is a rapper and is most noted for his collaborations with fellow rapper, Method Bus.

Both currently star in Power - Book 2: Ghost.
MurdnunoC
26 Nov 2021, 7:24 am #85

(24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm)Andreos1 Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.

They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.

Redbus is a rapper and is most noted for his collaborations with fellow rapper, Method Bus.

Both currently star in Power - Book 2: Ghost.

Malarkey



6,060
05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm #86
Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.

Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.

Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.

Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.

In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible. 

.jpg
City Bus Station.JPG
Size: 481.97 KB / Downloads: 26
Malarkey
05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm #86

Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.

Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.

Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.

Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.

In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible. 

.jpg
City Bus Station.JPG
Size: 481.97 KB / Downloads: 26

06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am #87
(05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm)Malarkey Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.

Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.

Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.

Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.

In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible. 

I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.
54APhotography
06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am #87

(05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm)Malarkey Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.

Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.

Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.

Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.

In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible. 

I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.

Rob44



1,472
06 Feb 2022, 8:38 am #88
Just seen this in chronicle about what could have been at marlbough cresent regarding a bus station...

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/his...mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this
Rob44
06 Feb 2022, 8:38 am #88

Just seen this in chronicle about what could have been at marlbough cresent regarding a bus station...

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/his...mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this

Adrian



9,566
06 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm #89
(06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am)54APhotography I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.

Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.

The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.

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Adrian
06 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm #89

(06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am)54APhotography I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.

Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.

The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.


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Bazza



200
06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm #90
Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
Bazza
06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm #90

Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .

06 Feb 2022, 8:44 pm #91
(06 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm)Adrian Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.

The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.
Ah yes, the motorail bay, I knew they wouldn't be able to alter the facade. There is so little space with the A186 configuration.
54APhotography
06 Feb 2022, 8:44 pm #91

(06 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm)Adrian Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.

The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.
Ah yes, the motorail bay, I knew they wouldn't be able to alter the facade. There is so little space with the A186 configuration.

Rob44



1,472
07 Feb 2022, 7:47 am #92
(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now?  I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water.  Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts  plans alone would account for over  two thirds of what’s available for the whole country. 

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t.  It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .

Yes i saw this too. Mr Gannon said the government was heading in the right direct but wasn't offering anywhere near the support £££££ wise to get these ideas up and running. They were not going to change there plans but like you say they arn't going to get 2/3 of the money for the north east. Probably end up with a really watered down version... cant see nothing improving though... which should be an improvement?!?!
Rob44
07 Feb 2022, 7:47 am #92

(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now?  I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water.  Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts  plans alone would account for over  two thirds of what’s available for the whole country. 

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t.  It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .

Yes i saw this too. Mr Gannon said the government was heading in the right direct but wasn't offering anywhere near the support £££££ wise to get these ideas up and running. They were not going to change there plans but like you say they arn't going to get 2/3 of the money for the north east. Probably end up with a really watered down version... cant see nothing improving though... which should be an improvement?!?!

Adrian



9,566
07 Feb 2022, 11:07 am #93
(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now?  I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water.  Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts  plans alone would account for over  two thirds of what’s available for the whole country. 

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t.  It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(07 Feb 2022, 7:47 am)Rob44 Yes i saw this too. Mr Gannon said the government was heading in the right direct but wasn't offering anywhere near the support £££££ wise to get these ideas up and running. They were not going to change there plans but like you say they arn't going to get 2/3 of the money for the north east. Probably end up with a really watered down version... cant see nothing improving though... which should be an improvement?!?!

It's supposed to be live from April, but it's dead before it starts, unless the UK Government stick their hand in their pocket and gives the NBS the funding it needs.

Local Transport Authorities right across England have developed Bus Service Improvement Plans to the specification of being ambitious, yet the promised funding for the National Bus Strategy has already been dropped from £3bn to £1.4bn, leaving a funding gap of about £5bn.

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Adrian
07 Feb 2022, 11:07 am #93

(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now?  I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water.  Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts  plans alone would account for over  two thirds of what’s available for the whole country. 

Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t.  It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(07 Feb 2022, 7:47 am)Rob44 Yes i saw this too. Mr Gannon said the government was heading in the right direct but wasn't offering anywhere near the support £££££ wise to get these ideas up and running. They were not going to change there plans but like you say they arn't going to get 2/3 of the money for the north east. Probably end up with a really watered down version... cant see nothing improving though... which should be an improvement?!?!

It's supposed to be live from April, but it's dead before it starts, unless the UK Government stick their hand in their pocket and gives the NBS the funding it needs.

Local Transport Authorities right across England have developed Bus Service Improvement Plans to the specification of being ambitious, yet the promised funding for the National Bus Strategy has already been dropped from £3bn to £1.4bn, leaving a funding gap of about £5bn.


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Andreos1



14,155
04 Apr 2022, 3:40 pm #94
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/

Updates to this.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
04 Apr 2022, 3:40 pm #94

https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/

Updates to this.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Adrian



9,566
04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm #95
(04 Apr 2022, 3:40 pm)Andreos1 https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/

Updates to this.

"Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really? Big Grin We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...

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Adrian
04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm #95

(04 Apr 2022, 3:40 pm)Andreos1 https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/

Updates to this.

"Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really? Big Grin We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...


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Rob44



1,472
04 Apr 2022, 4:21 pm #96
from the chronicle

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...t-23591600
Andreos1



14,155
04 Apr 2022, 4:26 pm #97
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really? Big Grin We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
04 Apr 2022, 4:26 pm #97

(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really? Big Grin We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Unber43



3,533
04 Apr 2022, 4:31 pm #98
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really? Big Grin We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
Wonder if the 60/20/56 will be receiving any upgrades in new bus form, or whether the money will just go to Riverside. Maybe the 21.
Would be nice to get some E200EV's maybe for the 60/20. Possible some mini buses upgrades aswell to electrify the Tynedale Links.

Really if the 20/60 got replaced that is around 24 buses to replace the 09 Optares, 35, 61 and more.
Unber43
04 Apr 2022, 4:31 pm #98

(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."

Really? Big Grin We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.

"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."

The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)

With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
Wonder if the 60/20/56 will be receiving any upgrades in new bus form, or whether the money will just go to Riverside. Maybe the 21.
Would be nice to get some E200EV's maybe for the 60/20. Possible some mini buses upgrades aswell to electrify the Tynedale Links.

Really if the 20/60 got replaced that is around 24 buses to replace the 09 Optares, 35, 61 and more.

Adrian



9,566
04 Apr 2022, 4:34 pm #99
(04 Apr 2022, 4:26 pm)Andreos1 It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.

It's absolutely better than nowt, but we shouldn't be hailing it as some great achievement at the same time. We might have got the most out of the vastly-reduced pot of money available for BSIPs, but I believe we asked for the most originally and it perhaps reflects the diverse network between Rural Northumberland and County Durham, with urban Tyne and Wear in between.

I think we need to see the finer details of how that funding split is going to be spent. There's also the question of how sustainable it is, and what happens after the three years. The BSIP document quoted returning to the pre-pandemic level of 162.4 million trips by March 2023 (so less than 11 months away) and then 10% growth on that a year later, so I wonder if those targets will be revised based on the funding settlement awarded.

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Adrian
04 Apr 2022, 4:34 pm #99

(04 Apr 2022, 4:26 pm)Andreos1 It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.

It's absolutely better than nowt, but we shouldn't be hailing it as some great achievement at the same time. We might have got the most out of the vastly-reduced pot of money available for BSIPs, but I believe we asked for the most originally and it perhaps reflects the diverse network between Rural Northumberland and County Durham, with urban Tyne and Wear in between.

I think we need to see the finer details of how that funding split is going to be spent. There's also the question of how sustainable it is, and what happens after the three years. The BSIP document quoted returning to the pre-pandemic level of 162.4 million trips by March 2023 (so less than 11 months away) and then 10% growth on that a year later, so I wonder if those targets will be revised based on the funding settlement awarded.


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