(17 Jul 2016, 6:55 pm)Adrian wrote An observation. Discuss.



Until you get rid of this mentality, events up here are never going to progress both into something bigger and with the times. Whether some people like it or not, a lot of the younger enthusiasts go to these events to see Go North East and Arriva buses, as it's their only real chance to 'explore' them, due to their age.

I really hope that no one from Go North East or Arriva looks at this kind of comment, and takes the same mentality as the poster highlighted on my screenshot. 

The "I'm taking my ball back and going home" attitude is best left in the playground, and people should start acting their age.

How are the younger generations going to be inspired to enter the scene when they aren't catered for at these events? Does somebody who is 5 want to be looking at only things 50 years older than them? Variety in age is key at the end of the day.

I don't care whatsoever for The Eden. The sun doesn't shine out of it. Would rather see a lineup of more modern vehicles.

I think having vehicles that are a variety of ages is a good thing. Mainly because it allows people to see how times have changed with the development of new technology etc.

Infact, had I been able to go to the Metrocentre rally, one of my main intentions would have been to have a look on a Streetdeck (which is something I was able to do at the Riverside Family Fun Day) rather than focus on the older vehicles.

Very old vehicles ( Over 30 years ago ) don't interest me, Hence why I'm never around them at rallies.
Though I do have a fond interest in 1980s and 90s buses, Mostly because that was the norm around my area when I was little ( Born 2002 )

Like others have said above, It needs to varied for different ages, Little children will only like the buses they see everyday.

(17 Jul 2016, 6:55 pm)Adrian wrote An observation. Discuss.



Until you get rid of this mentality, events up here are never going to progress both into something bigger and with the times. Whether some people like it or not, a lot of the younger enthusiasts go to these events to see Go North East and Arriva buses, as it's their only real chance to 'explore' them, due to their age.

I really hope that no one from Go North East or Arriva looks at this kind of comment, and takes the same mentality as the poster highlighted on my screenshot. 

The "I'm taking my ball back and going home" attitude is best left in the playground, and people should start acting their age.

What was the rally marketed as? A classic rally or a bus rally?
I know what I like to see at a rally and (without condoning or agreeing with what has been said) it seems Mr Scarlett likes a certain type of vehicle too.
Some don't and prefer to see modern stuff.

I do think the big operators sending their vehicles along to events like this could be seen as a cheap PR exercise - in addition to any good they bring to the rally or restoration scene.

(17 Jul 2016, 7:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote What was the rally marketed as? A classic rally or a bus rally?

"Whitley Bay Bus Rally" - no mention of 'classic' or 'vintage' in this one.

(17 Jul 2016, 7:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote What was the rally marketed as? A classic rally or a bus rally?
I know what I like to see at a rally and (without condoning or agreeing with what has been said) it seems Mr Scarlett likes a certain type of vehicle too.
Some don't and prefer to see modern stuff.

I do think the big operators sending their vehicles along to events like this could be seen as a cheap PR exercise - in addition to any good they bring to the rally or restoration scene.

Metrocentre is listed as a 'Bus and Coach show', Durham is listed as a 'Vintage Bus Gathering', Whitley Bay as a 'Bus Rally', and Seaburn as a 'Historic Vehicle Display'.

I don't think either GNE or Arriva look at the rallies in that respect, as as far as I can see, it's enthusiasts who arrange and prepare the bues to take to the events. It doesn't appear that there's any marketing drive from either, otherwise there'd be goodies given out, company reps there, and stuff such as leaflets and timetables (Arriva do the latter already!)

In some ways I can understand Greame's frustration as obviously it isn't cheap keeping preserved buses on the road and getting money to keep these going has to come from somewhere, apparently there was a lacking of donations when he took the Leopard to the 500 Group Running Day earlier in the year. For these reasons it may be a bit infuriating that some people are more interested in the modern stuff that is in daily passenger service and can be seen in service on a daily basis, if no-one shows any interest towards the stuff in preservation, we could lose these buses which would be a shame. At the same time, I don't think making statements like this is going to help matters as some people could see this and decide not to attend these events, meaning less people will see and ride vehicles of all ages. I think it is good that Arriva, Go North East and the independent operators attend these events as it helps to add a little more to the variety at these events (in my opinion) and from my observations at the Whitley Bay rally today, the Go North East stuff was where most of the interest was. I think there is a serious lacking of variety at these events in the North East now, it's bad when the only point I was really surprised at any point today was when I saw Go North East's Tynedale Links MPD 556 come back on a shuttle from Stephenson Railway Museum. I think the problem is not the modern buses being there, it's the fact that we are being subjected to the same preserved stuff at each rally in the region, the novelty of riding the same buses sharp loses it's fun and sure enough this was the case today whilst I was there today, 500 Group's H106 was one of the shuttles whilst I was there, I had it at most of the rallies last year and I've had it at all the rallies this year, I want to ride something else and that something else was the United Leyland Olympian which like it seemed to be the case at the MetroCentre Rally earlier in the year was a static display but I'm sure I've seen it do shuttles at other rallies this year, so why not ours in the North East, I think to keep the interest in the preserved stuff we need to get more buses visiting from other parts of the country, one of the most popular attendees at the 500 Group's Running Day was the former Black Prince Mercedes Benz O405/Opatre Prisma - N577 EUG which was a vehicle type previously a regular sight in Middlesbrough and people were pleased to get to sample one of these again, whoever was behind getting that to appear at the Teesside Running Day, thanks, it has to be my highlight of the year at the North East rallies in 2016.

(17 Jul 2016, 7:53 pm)Adrian wrote Metrocentre is listed as a 'Bus and Coach show', Durham is listed as a 'Vintage Bus Gathering', Whitley Bay as a 'Bus Rally', and Seaburn as a 'Historic Vehicle Display'.

I don't think either GNE or Arriva look at the rallies in that respect, as as far as I can see, it's enthusiasts who arrange and prepare the bues to take to the events. It doesn't appear that there's any marketing drive from either, otherwise there'd be goodies given out, company reps there, and stuff such as leaflets and timetables (Arriva do the latter already!)

That's why I said cheap. Mobile advertisements using a few quid in fuel - if they get people noticing a vehicle that goes through an area they travel in a car, but are impressed with the bus...

(04 Aug 2016, 1:09 pm)Tom wrote Well there's no chance of me going then...!

Tom, to be fair, you never bother going to them anyway. 

(04 Aug 2016, 3:48 pm)Michael wrote The buses which appear at every rally, don't get me wrong, i like seeing old buses etc but its the same every rally then its boring, even with the modern buses.

Michael, I'd suggest its more down to the way the events are organised, rather than what turns up. NEBPT tend to rely on a few local groups to turn out at each event, and in turn bolster their numbers at the rallies. Specifically Tyneside Heritage Vehicles, County Durham Bus Preservation Group, the Northern National Restoration Group and the 500 Group. 

THV and CDBPG sent one vehicle each to Durham, and I don't think either bothered with Whitley Bay, which made the rallies look bare. NEBPT have enough of their own preserved vehicles to bring along, but even their own numbers have been scarse this year.

Elsewhere in the UK, rallies seem to get guests turn up from all over. Aside from the odd few at the Metrocentre, that simply doesn't happen here. Lothian have plenty of preserved buses just north of the border, and I can only remember one occasion when they've sent a bus. I find that puzzling, unless non-NE groups simply don't want to take part in our events?

(04 Aug 2016, 6:26 pm)Adrian wrote Tom, to be fair, you never bother going to them anyway. 


Michael, I'd suggest its more down to the way the events are organised, rather than what turns up. NEBPT tend to rely on a few local groups to turn out at each event, and in turn bolster their numbers at the rallies. Specifically Tyneside Heritage Vehicles, County Durham Bus Preservation Group, the Northern National Restoration Group and the 500 Group. 

THV and CDBPG sent one vehicle each to Durham, and I don't think either bothered with Whitley Bay, which made the rallies look bare. NEBPT have enough of their own preserved vehicles to bring along, but even their own numbers have been scarse this year.

Elsewhere in the UK, rallies seem to get guests turn up from all over. Aside from the odd few at the Metrocentre, that simply doesn't happen here. Lothian have plenty of preserved buses just north of the border, and I can only remember one occasion when they've sent a bus. I find that puzzling, unless non-NE groups simply don't want to take part in our events?

Without taking this to far off-topic, I have to agree about the poor turn outs this year and lack of guest buses at our rallies. I thought that even the MetroCentre Rally was poor in comparison to last year.

I hope Seaburn has a decent turnout of vehicles again this year like it did last year but based on the season so far, I have concerns that it may not be especially after some of the stuff that's occurred, especially in regards to modern buses being in attendance.

(04 Aug 2016, 6:26 pm)Adrian wrote Tom, to be fair, you never bother going to them anyway. 


Michael, I'd suggest its more down to the way the events are organised, rather than what turns up. NEBPT tend to rely on a few local groups to turn out at each event, and in turn bolster their numbers at the rallies. Specifically Tyneside Heritage Vehicles, County Durham Bus Preservation Group, the Northern National Restoration Group and the 500 Group. 

THV and CDBPG sent one vehicle each to Durham, and I don't think either bothered with Whitley Bay, which made the rallies look bare. NEBPT have enough of their own preserved vehicles to bring along, but even their own numbers have been scarse this year.

Elsewhere in the UK, rallies seem to get guests turn up from all over. Aside from the odd few at the Metrocentre, that simply doesn't happen here. Lothian have plenty of preserved buses just north of the border, and I can only remember one occasion when they've sent a bus. I find that puzzling, unless non-NE groups simply don't want to take part in our events?

I used to go to most of them when they were actually decent and not the same old crap! Maybe if they done something different I would go but what's the point in going to see the same old buses which don't change

(04 Aug 2016, 6:43 pm)Tom wrote I used to go to most of them when they were actually decent and not the same old crap! Maybe if they done something different I would go but what's the point in going to see the same old buses which don't change

Wouldn't be so bad if there was SOME different things at these rallies each year, but it's few and far between. Last year was actually quite good but this year feels like a repeat of last year but with bits missing, sadly in some cases the stuff you want and now it just feels a bit off now with the negativity surrounding them. I mainly go to them to catch up with people.

I will still be attending the Seaburn Rally this year as it may still be a decent day out.

(04 Aug 2016, 7:04 pm)Jimmi wrote Wouldn't be so bad if there was SOME different things at these rallies each year, but it's few and far between. Last year was actually quite good but this year feels like a repeat of last year but with bits missing, sadly in some cases the stuff you want and now it just feels a bit off now with the negativity surrounding them. I mainly go to them to catch up with people.

I will still be attending the Seaburn Rally this year as it may still be a decent day out.

Exactly there is no point in me going. I actually did enjoy the rallies in the past and used to go to most of them but now they're just not the same unfortunately.

Something needs to change as when I was at the Metrocentre one I couldn't believe how bad the turnout was! Just shows it isn't me who thinks the same!!

(04 Aug 2016, 7:08 pm)Tom wrote Exactly there is no point in me going. I actually did enjoy the rallies in the past and used to go to most of them but now they're just not the same unfortunately.

Something needs to change as when I was at the Metrocentre one I couldn't believe how bad the turnout was! Just shows it isn't me who thinks the same!!

Next year, I think I will only be doing: 500 Group's Running Day, MetroCentre, possibly Durham and Seaburn. Can't be chewed on with Whitley Bay again. May be doing something else when the Shildon Rally is on this year.

I agree with Tom here, it isn't worth it to go and see the same buses as per previous rallies parked up. Shuttles are always going tits up and there's hardly anything else to do except buses this and buses that.

I'll stick to the MetroCentre rally if I want to attend a decent rally, with other optional things to do.

Hello.
We gave people something new this year in R855PRG. Yet she hasn't brought in the crowds as we thought she might. That said mind. We did not get her to get rally attendances up. I alone decided that I would save A Volvo B10BLE as nobody else would.

One of the reasons that we have poor attendances from outside the region I think is that the North East is stigmatized as A flat cap and grease jacket domain and we haven't got anything worth wile coming to see. Also very little or no publicity. We did the Bishop Auckland Station Event 3 weeks ago. This was publicized on Bishop FM, Facebook and our web site. So we have A good amount of people coming to ride on FTN 710W.

At Seaburn LAG188V will be coming again along with A few others. However after A long trip that last thing the owners want is to let them go on shuttles. Your average diesel fuelled car will get around 45 mpg. Taking 4855 for example she gets around 8 at best. So the cost of bringing her down and back from Tow Law (40 mile round trip) doing A shuttle run (10 miles) burns A lot of fuel. 16 gallon just for that trip. That's 112P A litre. That 75 litres of fuel costs £84. That's just A rough guide.  

So wile we get the same buses coming to these events think of those who do actually come with A bus and the cost that's involved. For Seaburn it will cost us around £250 in fuel for 4710 and 4855 as we are doing other things that day. That comes out of 4 peoples pockets.

Having said all that. If you go into bus preservation you have to be prepared to spend the money. No restorationist is A tight wad...

PS... Don't for get the road run September 4th at Consett 12.00.

Husbamd was admiring the paintwork on R855PRG, last weekend

(13 Aug 2016, 11:55 am)Craig Smith pid='\'177494 wroteHello.
We gave people something new this year in R855PRG. Yet she hasn't brought in the crowds as we thought she might. That said mind. We did not get her to get rally attendances up. I alone decided that I would save A Volvo B10BLE as nobody else would.

One of the reasons that we have poor attendances from outside the region I think is that the North East is stigmatized as A flat cap and grease jacket domain and we haven't got anything worth wile coming to see. Also very little or no publicity. We did the Bishop Auckland Station Event 3 weeks ago. This was publicized on Bishop FM, Facebook and our web site. So we have A good amount of people coming to ride on FTN 710W.

At Seaburn LAG188V will be coming again along with A few others. However after A long trip that last thing the owners want is to let them go on shuttles. Your average diesel fuelled car will get around 45 mpg. Taking 4855 for example she gets around 8 at best. So the cost of bringing her down and back from Tow Law (40 mile round trip) doing A shuttle run (10 miles) burns A lot of fuel. 16 gallon just for that trip. That's 112P A litre. That 75 litres of fuel costs £84. That's just A rough guide.  

So wile we get the same buses coming to these events think of those who do actually come with A bus and the cost that's involved. For Seaburn it will cost us around £250 in fuel for 4710 and 4855 as we are doing other things that day. That comes out of 4 peoples pockets.

Having said all that. If you go into bus preservation you have to be prepared to spend the money. No restorationist is A tight wad...

PS... Don't for get the road run September 4th at Consett 12.00.

Within the last 12 months there have been several new vehicles appearing at the local rallies. Like Craig points out, he has R855PRG which has just been restored. I myself have just finished FTN708W, and other buses from my group include C656LJR and AUP369W, all of which are new to the scene. Tyneside Heritage Vehicles have also displayed a couple of new purchases too. Having attended rallies for a good few years now, I think that this has been one of the better years for new displays.

(15 Aug 2016, 7:59 pm)C522LJR wrote Within the last 12 months there have been several new vehicles appearing at the local rallies. Like Craig points out, he has R855PRG which has just been restored. I myself have just finished FTN708W, and other buses from my group include C656LJR and AUP369W, all of which are new to the scene. Tyneside Heritage Vehicles have also displayed a couple of new purchases too. Having attended rallies for a good few years now, I think that this has been one of the better years for new displays.

Fixed your post. Not sure what had happened, but it had merged with Craig's post!

I agree - I think for new entrants, this year has been one of the busiest in certainly the past few years. This year of course being the return of the Go North East blue/red/yellow livery, which I guess is more recognisable to some of the younger members of the forum. It certainly does with me, although I don't think I can claim the 'young' tag these days.

I just think we could be so much better event wise, and really showcase the North East. There is no question that we have a lot of fantastic preservation examples, across a number of hard working groups. I just see it as a shame that the Metrocentre is the biggest they get as a showcase up here, but I guess that's only because we don't have a 'big' event.

I know Beamish was spoken about recently, and I really hope something like that comes off. I'm sure this site would heavily support such an idea, with the amount of hits we get from the North East and beyond.

I'll shut up now, as I'm conscious of clogging up the Seaburn thread!

I cannot understand all the negativity on this subject. Lots of complaints but no suggestions how to improve things. Like Craig said, the cost of bringing one bus to a rally is huge, there's zero profit in it for any of the owners, they do it for the love of the vehicles and the industry, yet still people complain. If all the owners just decided to jack it in, would you be happy then? At least you wouldn't have to "see the same old crap" year after year. If you are true enthusiasts then you would get right behind the owners and organisations that put in these shows. There are no professionals here, just a bunch of guys that pour their own money into keeping great old vehicles on the road. I was at the MetroCentre, and I was impressed at the turnout. I was at Shildon on Sunday, which was a nice little rally, and I will be at Seaburn. I put forward suggestions for turning the MetroCentre event into the equivalent of a northern Showbus, and I truly believe there could be scope for making that event into one of the biggest around, but unfortunately it needs backing. So, if you don't want to go, don't go. If you want things to change, suggest ideas to the relevant organisations.


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(16 Aug 2016, 10:03 am)MrPottski wrote I cannot understand all the negativity on this subject. Lots of complaints but no suggestions how to improve things. Like Craig said, the cost of bringing one bus to a rally is huge, there's zero profit in it for any of the owners, they do it for the love of the vehicles and the industry, yet still people complain. If all the owners just decided to jack it in, would you be happy then? At least you wouldn't have to "see the same old crap" year after year. If you are true enthusiasts then you would get right behind the owners and organisations that put in these shows. There are no professionals here, just a bunch of guys that pour their own money into keeping great old vehicles on the road. I was at the MetroCentre, and I was impressed at the turnout. I was at Shildon on Sunday, which was a nice little rally, and I will be at Seaburn. I put forward suggestions for turning the MetroCentre event into the equivalent of a northern Showbus, and I truly believe there could be scope for making that event into one of the biggest around, but unfortunately it needs backing. So, if you don't want to go, don't go. If you want things to change, suggest ideas to the relevant organisations.


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The beauty of a forum is that everyone is entitled to an opinion. Whilst I agree with you that I'd like to see negativity backed up with suggestions, ultimately, as in all walks of life, it's just not going to happen.

Perhaps add your suggestions for a northern showbus to our 'the future of rallies in the North East' thread too? I appreciate that you may have given these direct to the organisers, but I'd hope you would acknowledge that there's hardly an open door policy when it comes to the organisation of the events. It's just what has been done for as far as anyone can remember.

All change might be on the cards for next year anyway by the looks of things:
http://www.sunderland.city/sunderland-to...l-in-2017/


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(16 Aug 2016, 4:56 pm)MrPottski wrote All change might be on the cards for next year anyway by the looks of things:
http://www.sunderland.city/sunderland-to...l-in-2017/


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Excellent news.
Hopefully they work with a range of restoration bodies (including the ones already involved in various events) and develop it.

It may even attract people from that distant place called Carlisle!

“We hope this will be a festival which will attract a lot of people from Scotland, Yorkshire and even Carlisle,” 

(16 Aug 2016, 10:03 am)MrPottski wrote I cannot understand all the negativity on this subject. Lots of complaints but no suggestions how to improve things. Like Craig said, the cost of bringing one bus to a rally is huge, there's zero profit in it for any of the owners, they do it for the love of the vehicles and the industry, yet still people complain. If all the owners just decided to jack it in, would you be happy then? At least you wouldn't have to "see the same old crap" year after year. If you are true enthusiasts then you would get right behind the owners and organisations that put in these shows. There are no professionals here, just a bunch of guys that pour their own money into keeping great old vehicles on the road. I was at the MetroCentre, and I was impressed at the turnout. I was at Shildon on Sunday, which was a nice little rally, and I will be at Seaburn. I put forward suggestions for turning the MetroCentre event into the equivalent of a northern Showbus, and I truly believe there could be scope for making that event into one of the biggest around, but unfortunately it needs backing. So, if you don't want to go, don't go. If you want things to change, suggest ideas to the relevant organisations.


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I have had the idea of a North East Showbus type even for some time now. The venue would be the key thing to attract people. I know that some groups would come. I am sure I would have the support of the County Durham Bus Preservation Group and the NEBPT. But... The problem is location. Beamish would be A good place but restricted.

The venue would ideally have A hard standing to prevent the mud bath if its wet. Carlisle Airport has been mentioned to me before. Its not that far up the A69 and has loads of room. Its also just off the M6 and that might attract people from further away.  

Like C522LJR has said. We have had 8 buses brake cover this year. Some have been under restoration for years and some have been repainted at huge cost. So it gets me a little bit miffed when people say we have the same old things attending. The build up to each event takes time and effort.

The NNRG will be at Seaburn with 4710 and 4855. Come over and have A better chat with us. You can also look at our restoration photos of 4710 and 4855. We don't shy away from questions.

I've moved a series of posts from the Seaburn thread to here. It keeps all the discussion together.

(16 Aug 2016, 5:25 pm)Craig Smith wrote I have had the idea of a North East Showbus type even for some time now. The venue would be the key thing to attract people. I know that some groups would come. I am sure I would have the support of the County Durham Bus Preservation Group and the NEBPT. But... The problem is location. Beamish would be A good place but restricted.

The venue would ideally have A hard standing to prevent the mud bath if its wet. Carlisle Airport has been mentioned to me before. Its not that far up the A69 and has loads of room. Its also just off the M6 and that might attract people from further away.  

Like C622LJR has said. We have had 8 buses brake cover this year. Some have been under restoration for years and some have been repainted at huge cost. So it gets me a little bit miffed when people say we have the same old things attending. The build up to each event takes time and effort.

The NNRG will be at Seaburn with 4710 and 4855. Come over and have A better chat with us. You can also look at our restoration photos of 4710 and 4855. We don't shy away from questions.

I quite like the idea of Beamish as a venue, and it would be a win-win really. Whilst I think it's a bonus that Beamish get new members in the process, my concern would be around rally footfall, when admission is £18.95 (?) for adults alone. A family pass would set people back about £42. I fear this would deter people, and it's almost double what showbus costs for adult admission.

I don't think that charging admission is a problem, as long as it provides value for money. There are plenty other places that an admission fee could be charged, where the funds raised come back to the groups to support the hard work they do. You wouldn't get that at Beamish, so I suppose it's something to think about

When this mention of a Northern (and I think we should stress Northern not just North East...) Showbus-type event first came up, I offered the expectation that it would have to be somewhere central to all areas of the north. To me that means somewhere in Yorkshire would be likely to attract the highest number of attendees from all surrounding areas. I don't think the travelling would be an issue, after all look at where the attendees of the current Showbus travel from. As to where exactly an event of a large size could be held, I think you would be looking at somewhere like Elvington or Church Fenton near York.

(16 Aug 2016, 8:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote When this mention of a Northern (and I think we should stress Northern not just North East...) Showbus-type event first came up, I offered the expectation that it would have to be somewhere central to all areas of the north. To me that means somewhere in Yorkshire would be likely to attract the highest number of attendees from all surrounding areas. I don't think the travelling would be an issue, after all look at where the attendees of the current Showbus travel from. As to where exactly an event of a large size could be held, I think you would be looking at somewhere like Elvington or Church Fenton near York.

I was thinking around Carlisle,Brampton aria to try and get people down from Scotland. That would be more central for them. Also to push that it would be a North of England event.

(16 Aug 2016, 8:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote When this mention of a Northern (and I think we should stress Northern not just North East...) Showbus-type event first came up, I offered the expectation that it would have to be somewhere central to all areas of the north. To me that means somewhere in Yorkshire would be likely to attract the highest number of attendees from all surrounding areas. I don't think the travelling would be an issue, after all look at where the attendees of the current Showbus travel from. As to where exactly an event of a large size could be held, I think you would be looking at somewhere like Elvington or Church Fenton near York.

How about Croft Circuit, large venue with plenty of tarmac and plenty of parking spaces


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(17 Aug 2016, 5:26 pm)TEN 6083 wrote How about Croft Circuit, large venue with plenty of tarmac and plenty of parking spaces


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Croft would be good.

I quite like Scott's idea of something Church Fenton way. Easy enough to get to from most places too.