Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
#1
Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
Anyone help?

I came across this photo of coach A716 ABB as United 1037.

Ive only ever known it as Northern 7016 and VFM/Go Ahead Northern 5116.  I can't ever recollect it being referred to as ex United in any Fleet lists or handbooks. 

Can anyone tell me when did this and the remainder of the batch 717-720 pass from United to Northern and the reason why?

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#2
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 9:08 am)ifm001 Wrote: Anyone help?

I came across this photo of coach A716 ABB as United 1037.

Ive only ever known it as Northern 7016 and VFM/Go Ahead Northern 5116.  I can't ever recollect it being referred to as ex United in any Fleet lists or handbooks. 

Can anyone tell me when did this and the remainder of the batch 717-720 pass from United to Northern and the reason why?

I didn't know United had it either. Certainly can't remember it being in service with them. 
Done some quick digging and found this photo dated 1987. Looks like some sort of open day at Stanley. Obviously it's only a few years old at this stage. 
I'd say maybe it passed in the lead up to de-reg, as they were all 'National' and there seemed to be a habit of allocating one set to another operator temporarily - but that would be a total guess.

At least this photo narrows down the time period. If nothing else.

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'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#3
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 10:36 am)Andreos1 Wrote: I didn't know United had it either. Certainly can't remember it being in service with them. 
Done some quick digging and found this photo dated 1987. Looks like some sort of open day at Stanley. Obviously it's only a few years old at this stage. 
I'd say maybe it passed in the lead up to de-reg, as they were all 'National' and there seemed to be a habit of allocating one set to another operator temporarily - but that would be a total guess.

At least this photo narrows down the time period. If nothing else.
Yes there is another photo of it alongside Northern Tiger 7021 at Gallowgate but still under United fleet names with 1037 fleet number still. 
As i said I've never known this batch to be ex United so a bit intriguing with the past for the first 3 years or so. A reg was 1984 wasnt it?

#4
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 11:08 am)ifm001 Wrote: Yes there is another photo of it alongside Northern Tiger 7021 at Gallowgate but still under United fleet names with 1037 fleet number still. 
As i said I've never known this batch to be ex United so a bit intriguing with the past for the first 3 years or so. A reg was 1984 wasnt it?



Just had a quick check. The A reg prefix was Aug 83 - July 84.
Knew it was round that period, just couldn't remember exactly. 

The dvla have the vehicle in question registered in March 84.

The photo at Gallowgate - does that have a date against it?
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#5
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 11:20 am)Andreos1 Wrote: Just had a quick check. The A reg prefix was Aug 83 - July 84.
Knew it was round that period, just couldn't remember exactly. 

The dvla have the vehicle in question registered in March 84.

The photo at Gallowgate - does that have a date against it?
No date from the pic 
But attached.  What year did 7021 get introduced?

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#6
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 11:40 am)ifm001 Wrote: No date from the pic 
But attached.  What year did 7021 get introduced?

The dvla don't seem to have details available for 7021.
However, the picture of SJP gives a clue to the dates. 
The wooden West stand was demolished in 86ish, following on the Bradford City fire in May 85. The Milburn Stand would have been completed a year later, dating this photo between 84 and 86.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#7
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 12:02 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: The dvla don't seem to have details available for 7021.
However, the picture of SJP gives a clue to the dates. 
The wooden West stand was demolished in 86ish, following on the Bradford City fire in May 85. The Milburn Stand would have been completed a year later, dating this photo between 84 and 86.
Which would tally with your previous post and pic of 7016 at Stanley in 1987.
So possibly it transferred or was sold to Northern in 1986 ready for deregulation. 
Now I'm wondering just how many vehicles may have been involved. Just this batch or others. 
Also we have the ex Pte batches in 1981 I think it was  of 3524-3533 and 3684-3733.but these were always acknowledged as ex PTE which makes me wonder why 7016-7020 were not classed as ex United.

#8
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
Closing in on the next.  Came across  photo of  sister A718 ABB in Edinburgh and the date on photo is 1984 and is owned by Northern in this pic.

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#9
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(13 Apr 2020, 12:52 pm)ifm001 Wrote: Which would tally with your previous post and pic of 7016 at Stanley in 1987.
So possibly it transferred or was sold to Northern in 1986 ready for deregulation. 
Now I'm wondering just how many vehicles may have been involved. Just this batch or others. 
Also we have the ex Pte batches in 1981 I think it was  of 3524-3533 and 3684-3733.but these were always acknowledged as ex PTE which makes me wonder why 7016-7020 were not classed as ex United.

It appears I was wrong with the date. 
https://youtu.be/dwnBt0__QUY April 87. You can see the shadow of the old west stand in the clip. I thought it had gone by this point, but it clearly didn't. 
Thinking about it, sure it was the sale of Beardsley which funded the Milburn Stand. 

So... The photo of the Gallowgate bus station could have been any point up to Summer 87.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#10
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
A couple of more pics of a different vehicle swapping between Northern and United, the United was pictured in March 1985 so could possibly be linked with the swaps of A716 ABB etc

This is of AEF 30Y..seen with Northern lettering then owned by United which is the company I knew it from.

Wonder how many more swaps we can unearth.

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#11
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
I've been reading this and decided to dig out my copy of "Northern and it's subsidiaries - from No Place to Success", and see if this sheds any light on the vehicle swaps.
Two entries stand out for 1986:-
"Northern found it necessary to hire 2 Bova Europa coaches from United for use on additional National Express Rapide services introduced with the summer timetable on 27 April and in exchange for these, 2 of Northern National Omnibus Co's Leyland Tigers were loaned to United (who gave them United fleet names and numbers)."
Later, it is stated that 2 Plaxton-bodied Leyland Royal Tiger coaches to Rapide specification were hired from Yorkshire Traction in December 1986 which allowed the Bovas to go back to United and the Tigers to come back to Northern. Apparently one Tiger had gained Northumbria fleet names by then!

Rather a long post but hope that puts some meat on the bones. It seems to prove that the swaps are linked.

#12
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
(26 Apr 2020, 10:18 am)missedbus Wrote: I've been reading this and decided to dig out my copy of "Northern and it's subsidiaries - from No Place to Success", and see if this sheds any light on the vehicle swaps.
Two entries stand out for 1986:-
"Northern found it necessary to hire 2 Bova Europa coaches from United for use on additional National Express Rapide services introduced with the summer timetable on 27 April and in exchange for these, 2 of Northern National Omnibus Co's Leyland Tigers were loaned to United (who gave them United fleet names and numbers)."
Later, it is stated that 2 Plaxton-bodied Leyland Royal Tiger coaches to Rapide specification were hired from Yorkshire Traction in December 1986 which allowed the Bovas to go back to United and the Tigers to come back to Northern. Apparently one Tiger had gained Northumbria fleet names by then!

Rather a long post but hope that puts some meat on the bones. It seems to prove that the swaps are linked.
Does sound plausible but some of the pics are 1984 and 1985. Whereas the article your reading refers to 1986 unless the author was slightly out with his dates. But does seem the most obvious connection to the pics.

#13
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
Fukc knows where things go these days. 
Suppose this thread is as good as any. 

Watching Look North just now and there was a segment about the miners strike and police behaviour. 
There were loads of bits of footage from various pockets, but there were some dramatic shots of Northern 4691 surrounded by fleeing miners and the chasing police.
Managed to get a couple of photos.

No idea which pit it was outside or when during the strike the footage was recorded. But the (then fairly new) vehicle is there in its poppy red and without its roof pod. Pretty sure it lasted all the way through without it.

I remember United having quite a few without the pod, but Northern's National's tended to have them in the main on delivery.

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'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#14
RMF1254
(19 Nov 2020, 12:04 am)Andreos1 Wrote: Fukc knows where things go these days. 
Suppose this thread is as good as any. 

Watching Look North just now and there was a segment about the miners strike and police behaviour. 
There were loads of bits of footage from various pockets, but there were some dramatic shots of Northern 4691 surrounded by fleeing miners and the chasing police.
Managed to get a couple of photos.

No idea which pit it was outside or when during the strike the footage was recorded. But the (then fairly new) vehicle is there in its poppy red and without its roof pod. Pretty sure it lasted all the way through without it.

I remember United having quite a few without the pod, but Northern's National's tended to have them in the main on delivery.
Northern’s National 2s were all delivered with roof pods except 4691 which I believe was a diverted order (East Yorkshire comes to mind but I’m not sure). United’s new National 2s were delivered without the pods but I think some of their later second hand ones had them. The podless National 2s were a more basic model with a different heating system I think.

#15
RE: RMF1254
(19 Nov 2020, 11:32 am)RMF1254 Wrote: Northern’s National 2s were all delivered with roof pods except 4691 which I believe was a diverted order (East Yorkshire comes to mind but I’m not sure). United’s new National 2s were delivered without the pods but I think some of their later second hand ones had them. The podless National 2s were a more basic model with a different heating system I think.

I've had a quick look on wiki and under the Mk1, they mention the 10351B/1R model (without the pod) was 10.3m long, had different lighting and had underseat heating, as opposed to the heating coming through at roof level and the option of an 11m length.

I assume the same applied to the Mk2's, with 4691 and United’s examples having the underseat heating.
It's not something I ever consciously noticed as a passenger at all. 

When the ex-Northern examples lost their pods later in life, I am guessing the heating system was changed at the same time.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#16
RE: Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...7238245255&id=114174295320933

An interesting story from ex-Northern fitter and Sunderland director, John Fickling involving Sunderland and a de-roofed decker.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'

#17
Go Ahead Northern / United Automobile Services
I came across this photo, it stated photo commissioned by go ahead northern, I wouldn’t thought go ahead northern would commission a photo



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